about Sam Dees on SSS International?

FACT - Not all records are booted or re-press for the NORTHERN scene. The USA has had a highly profitable re-press/boot scene since the 1950's just look at the Do-wop scene, loads of re-presses/boots. Then there is all the other scene's in the USA like the teen scene, girl group, garage, lots of the scenes cross over to the northern scene and they all have had re-presses/boots over the years. As the Oxford Nights isn't a SOUL record then it's quite possible it was originally done years ago. Quite often it is group members who have them done, to sell at live gigs, to supplement their income.

The rumor is that the Oxford Knights (thats answered your second question ) for sale by lil-pedler on ebay are all 'boots' im not convinced and seem to think people are getting them mixed up with the 'shiney' paper boots that were about, I've checked the paper on mine (from Lil pedler) along side a 'old' Oxford Knights and my Prophets and they are exately the same, no differnce in the paper what so ever! and Mark (billytheboot) will back me up with this too. I reckon its just rumors started by people then gets totally blown out of preportion, Maybe Lil-pedler wouldnt sell multiple copys at knocked down prices, so it gets people backs up and these rumors start

as to your 3rd question I forget too

baz...check out the label scan i posted

Question 4: Exactly how rare is Sam Dees, before this happened? Number of copies pressed?

baz...check out the label scan i posted

Oh bugger, i've allways got it on my head its (k) might have to check my copy at home it might be the missing link in this debate the amount of times i've seen the lable you would think it would stick in my head

Question 4: Exactly how rare is Sam Dees, before this happened? Number of copies pressed?

Thousands! i posted earlyer in the thread i knew some one who found a few thousand in the seventys and put them all in a skip!

Oh bugger, i've allways got it on my head its (k) might have to check my copy at home it might be the missing link in this debate the amount of times i've seen the lable you would think it would stick in my head

Thousands! i posted earlyer in the thread i knew some one who found a few thousand in the seventys and put them all in a skip!

Why would they do that. Seems a bit silly!

Question 4: Exactly how rare is Sam Dees, before this happened? Number of copies pressed?

Thousands were pressed - probably tens of thousands. Someone once claimed to have left behind a shelf of them, and those disappeared - presumably thrown into the dumpster or re-cycled into shiny new 12" Ottowan records . Same story with Sam Fletcher "I'd think it over", and Charles Johnson "Never had a love so good". These records just seem to disappear off of the planet, but I wouldn't call any of those three really rare.

The most mysterious one of all is Billy Woods on Sussex - 50 copies imported as a new release - where the hell are they all? We only ever seem to see the same 5 or 6 DJ buggered / needle hiss copies going round and round.

Oh bugger, i've allways got it on my head its (k) might have to check my copy at home it might be the missing link in this debate the amount of times i've seen the lable you would think it would stick in my head

Thousands! i posted earlyer in the thread i knew some one who found a few thousand in the seventys and put them all in a skip!

Oops sorry Baz - you got your reply in before me.

Just one point, instead of worrying about what might turn up, why not jump up and down and see how much your record collection investment has gone up over the years. Then I'm sure the guys who bought from me Don Gardner £3, Inspirations £20, Johnny Hendley £3, Damon Fox £8, Lester Tipton £15 Donna King £15, Gerri Hall £1.50 etc including, Tony Smith who was the most generous of all when he gave me £100 for his Al Williams La Beat white demo. I'm sure you all feel guilty and you'll send me some money..

Collecting and dealing is a two way street, some you win, some you lose, thankfully the losers are very few. Just do what I (and I'm many of you) do, if someone stiffs you on a price you just don't deal with them again.

It seemed like a lot of money at the time

i know where there are 800 copies of a record that just sold on johns site

for £400 odd.

good luck to him i say.

but the artist has all the stock and the price wont come down as he doesnt

want to shift them yet.

hows does this sort of thing effect the value of such rare records when

there was only believed to be around a hundred odd.

obviously it is still hard to get becuase they are not in circulation yet

should the price come down?

but then will the price ever come down as the artist in question now knows what they can sell for

supply and demand innit........... so 800 x £400 is £320,000, so you keep one copy back and smash the others ,so there are only 2 copies now, then each copy is worth £160,000, simple when you think about it

Edited June 26, 200619 yr by headsy

yeah i like the theory

lets take them all to a football ground

spurs as they dont play much football and say

lall hate disco music !!!

then blow them all up.

errrrmmmm...has this been done before

i know where there are 800 copies of a record that just sold on johns site

for £400 odd.

good luck to him i say.

but the artist has all the stock and the price wont come down as he doesnt

want to shift them yet.

hows does this sort of thing effect the value of such rare records when

there was only believed to be around a hundred odd.

obviously it is still hard to get becuase they are not in circulation yet

should the price come down?

but then will the price ever come down as the artist in question now knows what they can sell for

whats the record....might save someone spending unnecessary money, then the owner might shift them at a reasonable price.

Thousands! i posted earlyer in the thread i knew some one who found a few thousand in the seventys and put them all in a skip!

well that few thousand no longer exist if they were skipped

I sometimes wish Patrinel Statten would turn up in quantity then we would stop hearing about this totally mediocre offering for a few years.

I've heard ther boot/re-issue played more often than the real thing in recent times. Been at a venue in recent times were three who actually owned a real copy and none played it.

2. Is it Oxford Knights ( as in the round table) or Nights (as in Arabian)?

here they are the Oxford Shites

here they are the Oxford Shites

Oxford Trites to me - not a big fan of Carolina pop music. Wouldn't turn it down but straight to the swaps box.

Thousands were pressed - probably tens of thousands. Someone once claimed to have left behind a shelf of them, and those disappeared - presumably thrown into the dumpster or re-cycled into shiny new 12" Ottowan records . Same story with Sam Fletcher "I'd think it over", and Charles Johnson "Never had a love so good". These records just seem to disappear off of the planet, but I wouldn't call any of those three really rare.

The most mysterious one of all is Billy Woods on Sussex - 50 copies imported as a new release - where the hell are they all? We only ever seem to see the same 5 or 6 DJ buggered / needle hiss copies going round and round.

Oops sorry Baz - you got your reply in before me.

"Same story with Sam Fletcher "I'd think it over", that was me who left maybe 10,000 copies (a whole wall full) in Miami in 1976..I thought the record was nice but not Northern Soul. The owner was in hospital having heart surgury, he died shortly afterwards and no one seems to known where his records went to. He was the distributor for Vee Jay so everything to do with Vee Jay was there, he'd moved down from Chicago. I also left tons of titles like Wade Flemons etc.

But my biggest mistake..was Beatles promo 45s, and even promo copies their Vee Jay EP with covers.. I had an handful of them and gave them to Richie Uella the guy who took me there.

I dream of going to a place like that with what we know now..

As for the Billy Woods 50 copies.. that's gotta be barstool "ran out of interesting things to say" comment.

Charles Johnson I sold at £1.25 we had 50 copies they came from Record Corner as a new release, when I came to re-order Alston had deleted it.

These stories are great, some are true some you have to take with a pinch of salt. As for going to the skip. Three years ago I took 20,000 45s from the Oakland load because they were water damaged, labels were unreadable with the records being stuck together, parting them caused so much dust from the flaking paper sleeves and label. One of the gang decided lets skip them..what was in that 20,000 I wonder...maybe Terri Goodnight.

Edited June 26, 200619 yr by john manship

Why would they do that. Seems a bit silly!

In the seventys they were looking for the next 100mph stomper! and on listening to Sam Dee's they decided it wasn't 'fast enough' so it got binned.

we found ashop in daytona beach one rainy sunday the owner was out and the youth working there let me and stu bust intoa nailed shut backroom when we eventually got the door open there was tens of thousands of 45s litterally everywhere loads of bealtes on vj elvis ,sun ..tons of60s , but not one soul record

Really can't bare to hear such stories of wall fulls of Sam Fletchers......

On the Billy Woods 45 - Didnt someone buy a copy of Ebay for a few quid thinking it a boot and was in fact a real one?..... More rumour / dreams ? ? ?

ATB

Rich

"Same story with Sam Fletcher "I'd think it over", that was me who left maybe 10,000 copies (a whole wall full) in Miami in 1976..I thought the record was nice but not Northern Soul.

I dream of going to a place like that with what we know now..

With respect, John, I doubt if you would fair any better. What you didn't have then, and what you wouldn't have were your dream to be made fact, is hindsight. You didn't have a crystal ball then, as you wouldn't have one in the future. In other words, you wouldn't be able to second-guess future tastes.

[b

As for the Billy Woods 50 copies.. that's gotta be barstool "ran out of interesting things to say" comment.

John I have heard the same story several times from John - he got them from the engineer just as the label was going bust (one of several times Sussex went that way), and left 150 behind because it was pretty new / unknown and he couldn't carry any more on the bus. We are talking early 70's here. Same theme in the days when you left things behind because everything thought they would turn up again....in this case those further copies never turned up.

I sometimes wish Patrinel Statten would turn up in quantity then we would stop hearing about this totally mediocre offering for a few years.

You were being kind to it Steve i think its the most over rated pile of crapIMO

we found ashop in daytona beach one rainy sunday the owner was out and the youth working there let me and stu bust intoa nailed shut backroom when we eventually got the door open there was tens of thousands of 45s litterally everywhere loads of bealtes on vj elvis ,sun ..tons of60s , but not one soul record

Happens to me regularly. In fact last Tuesday I drove 300 miles round trip to check out a 250.000 stash that the guys said he just wanted shut off to make space. So the usual questions:

How old?

45s/33s?

Sleeved?

Got all the right answers, turned to find box upon box of absolute rubbish. Not one single record to be had. Ended up buying a Spinners Demo and a Niteliters Demo just cos I felt sorry for myself AGAIN!

Regards,

Dave

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

i know where there are 800 copies of a record that just sold on johns site

for £400 odd.

good luck to him i say.

but the artist has all the stock and the price wont come down as he doesnt

want to shift them yet.

hows does this sort of thing effect the value of such rare records when

there was only believed to be around a hundred odd.

obviously it is still hard to get becuase they are not in circulation yet

should the price come down?

but then will the price ever come down as the artist in question now knows what they can sell for

Is it the Executive Jam 45?

Jordi

Really can't bare to hear such stories of wall fulls of Sam Fletchers......

On the Billy Woods 45 - Didnt someone buy a copy of Ebay for a few quid thinking it a boot and was in fact a real one?..... More rumour / dreams ? ? ?

ATB

Rich

I heard he was the guy who runs the music pages on Scootering magazine. Sargeant or something...

Bloody good for him...

Jawdropping stories Mr. Manship! We want more!!!

Roccia