With Keith's recent post about going part time. Good luck Mate, hope it all works out). I'd like to ask a question. No agenda, no alterior motive just a wish to know how others are thinking and what are dictating other collectors buying habits. So....

When people put 45s up in the sales section "before putting them on Ebay" how many actually sell any records. I know that my sales on Ebay run at about 25% but then I only sell doubles of stuff and Motown Demos I've replace with better copies. Thing is this....I've collected for 30 years and haven't bought a record of any note from a UK dealer for almost 5 years! In fact I've sold them to UK dealers at what I could only describe as "going rate" to see them appear at more than double what I rated them at (and more!) on their lists. List after list of overpriced mid/poor quality records just get the "delete" button treatment I'm afraid, whilst the top end items attract the type of prices that far outstrip a "realistic" value imo. Just because one record fetches X amount it seems fine for sellers to quote that example in relation to another record being worth Y. I personally judge a records value by my own experience/knowledge of it, not be some price paid by someone else in an auction scenario. That has obviously curtailed my purchases over the past few years, but has also made me delve deeper into the collecting scene to find something I'd like to own.

Maybe dealers expectations are now outstripping the buyers willingness to "accept" the pricing of records. Once "The Returnees", (no disrespect intended), start trying to "liquify their assets" as they did last time, then surely it's gonna be a good thing all round. Prices fall, collectors start sniffing around again, money changes hands more, and the cycle starts again. Less collectors buying more records can only be a good thing for the long term collector AND the dealers who can recognise that and stay ahead of the pack?

For long term collectors....check out the sales section on ANY website (including SS), and tell me that for all the hype about Set sales, Summer sales, Bargains, Got to Go, etc etc. there's anything that makes you go "Quick....where's mi wallet?!

All this is obviously just my personal opinion, but it's vinyl....and we all know that's more than a case of life or death!

Is it time to ofload the big hitters and stash the money for a few years in order to rebuy them back at half the price? Go on admit it.... you know you've mulled that one over!

Regards,

Dave

www.theresthatbeat.com

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

don't you HAVE to become vat reg if you're tunover is above a certain figure?

yes the figure is 68k.

CHEERS BAZ A.

yes the figure is 68k.

CHEERS BAZ A.

dont you also have to be registered if you are a limited company?

mark

Eh!!,dont talk stupid........s`pose we should get a free membership to the Euro club then,makes sense ,s`pose you should fukc off outa` Europe if you dont wanna` be in it ,i was born in it,i`m happy with it.....

I think you are confusing geographical Europe with the European Union, which is a corruption riddled and democratically unnaccounatble behemoth that was sold to the general public on the basis of a massive misrepresentation. I was born in Europe but not the EC, to misuse Rousseau "Man is born free but is everywhere in chains."

Are you really happy in it Kenny? Its them that set the rate of car insurance.

Edited September 28, 200618 yr by Stuart T

It's particularly obvious that some UK dealers/ collectors/sellers operate as if Ebay does not exist. They have the JM and TB guides and seem to stick to those when pricing, taking usually the rate for a mint copy and then even adding on at times.

They completely fail to take into account record condition or the fact that the same records appear regularly on Ebay [they may have even got their 45s from Ebay themselves] at half the price or in a lot of instances without attracting any bids, despite the US seller mentioning that it's so much in the guide.

I think a general perusal of what's on sale at any allnighter would bear that observation out.

If you're trying to sell 45s at £30 and above IMO you're selling to collectors and you've not done your homework if you think we just shell out cos it's there. We're on Ebay,we get various lists, there's this site, so we compare prices and majority of us will wait until we think it's worth the money.

Of course the price guides have been a disaster in that the source of supply has wised up but then a lot of US dealers have been abreast of developments over here well before JM and TB guides. However it has spread to a lot more people over there and last time I was in USA I did get the impression that these guys think ALL 60's soul 45s are worth a fortune.

Too late to put the genii back in the jar but maybe the new editions of these guides will reflect what some of us see as a too high valuation on a lot of 45s.

They say anecdotal evidence is not proof but for instance Eddie Bishop reg issue is £300 in both guides [or maybe was on John's site] but can't sell it for £150. No wonder,it's crap!! Im sure many people on here have similar experiences. I do take John's point though about global reach. Bit of a difference between his site and my handful down at the local Northern do!!

There is however a slight upside to all this in that you can sell pretty poor records and make a profit by selling cheaper than guides or established sites. I recently sold a couple for £15 and £40 which were £75 and £100 elsewhere respectively.

Maybe the problem with the guides is that they cannot reflect the fluid nature of what collectors are prepared to pay. For every 45 that John or Tim IMO over-rates there's another they've under-rated if you take the Ebay auctions as your guide.

ROD

Yes that is spot on the fluid nature of what collectors are prepared to pay to me adds up to

seizing the chance on the free market at the right time when you have the oportunity to purchase.The price quide is a subjective view of one collectors market experience over a certain period[to me a breath of fresh air because it gives the scene more kudos]prices whether we had quides or not [and i prefer to have them]have always varied upon demand and supply and that is how it should be.Trends on the northern scene do change alot etc but the bottomline is the real quality discs we all want always find there rightful price [and hopefully place].

BAZ A

"Man is born free but is everywhere in chains."

Hippy.

Hippy.

Well like groovy man, you may prefer "you can take the boy out of Bermondsey but he'll still nick your car." Back on topic, records definitely cost too much, I'm selling up and buying an expensive shiny red sports car for my next birthday. Shame the speed limit is 35.

Well like groovy man, you may prefer "you can take the boy out of Bermondsey but he'll still nick your car." Back on topic, records definitely cost too much, I'm selling up and buying an expensive shiny red sports car for my next birthday. Shame the speed limit is 35.

Your get nicked for doing 35 in Bermondsey for speeding as its only 30mph there

"Man is born free but is everywhere in chains."

You're married too, Stuart ?

ROD

Edited September 28, 200618 yr by modernsoulsucks

Your get nicked for doing 35 in Bermondsey for speeding as its only 30mph there

I shall be like Kenny and do a very pro-European 35kph then.

"Man is born free but is everywhere in chains."

You're married too, Stuart ?

ROD

Not yet, is there something I should know?

Looking back to your teen year's you could easy spend that entire weeks wage on a record or 2 - look at your salary now on a weekly basis pre out-going's mortgage food etc similar comparison? Yes the big stuff would take more than a weeks salary - but as prices have increased so have salaries - all relative and comparable to some degree.

Having said that - lot of big in demand stuff - few copies - one off's etc will continue to attract and fetch big monies - as these are usually auctioned the buyer will always dictate the final price as they are paying the money.......

Maybe we should look at one the real reason's, record prices have been able to go mad - Credit...... credit cards - loans and overdrafts - face it without them very few would be buying as much or paying the prices they do.... Would you have bought as much as you have and gone as high in the last 16 yrs if you had to pay cash direct from your wage

Stop and think how often do you pay for a record - higher priced stuff anyway without using credit card or if bankers card is it from overdraft - or cash loan put into bank etc etc in some way or another

Food for thought with your breaky..

Karen

Absolutely spot on Karen, I wouldn't have been able to buy any of my records without credit cards. The big auction prices are all down to the availability of credit.

Phil.

People are still buying records, I sold about half of the ones I recently listed on here. I think that the things that don't sell are the ones that are listed at top whack. The cheaper stuff is tougher to sell because its always been common and eBay has made common records so accessible (Carl Carlton - Competition is a good example).

I'm still buying records but I won't buy something because I have to have it at any price, I buy stuff I like at a price I'm willing to pay. I'm buying less to sell on at the moment though but that is because it is hard to get stuff at a price that allows some profit. I think that many records are currently vastly over priced because there has been such demand over the last few years, an adjustment is well overdue. A bit like house prices to be honest.

I hope the scene isn't going pear shaped just as I'm about to return after 3 years away from getting out and about. Mind you a slump in record prices would have me reaching for my wallet.

Alternatively you could trade via a limited partnership domiciled in a non EU offshore jurisdiction which also charges a lower rate of corporation and income tax, just like HMV is doing with their online business

yes but not for long, most of these companies trade through jersey but after preasure from the u.k gov jersey has askeds them all to leave within a year,play .com wont have to as its a jersey business

Mr.M sold Lena Junoff, Olga demo, yesterday has gone,for if memory serves me £150 last week at auction,my copy sold on ebay last night for £26 with a full soundclip ex con played mint, don't know what's going on

And yet on the other hand Monique - Never let me go/I wouldn't believe - Maurci in not good shape, just sold on ebay for £400 To an American bidder. What's that all about?

And yet on the other hand Monique - Never let me go/I wouldn't believe - Maurci in not good shape, just sold on ebay for £400 To an American bidder. What's that all about?

Watched this myself - out of curiosity - having seen it at £288 a few days ago! Wouldn't have thought this would make more than £200 even in mint condition. There were a lot of these around years ago (think I had two mint ones in the early '80s) - what price now for an 'If You Love Me (Show Me)?

Have sold a fair few things back to US collectors from ebay in the last 12 months - always seems odd when that happens, but perhaps it says something about how hard things are to find there now and when they are found the dealers have the guide books and price accordingly.

Watched this myself - out of curiosity - having seen it at £288 a few days ago! Wouldn't have thought this would make more than £200 even in mint condition. There were a lot of these around years ago (think I had two mint ones in the early '80s) - what price now for an 'If You Love Me (Show Me)?

Have sold a fair few things back to US collectors from ebay in the last 12 months - always seems odd when that happens, but perhaps it says something about how hard things are to find there now and when they are found the dealers have the guide books and price accordingly.

Yep! totally agree with you there. I sold my "If you love me show me" to a friend of mine for £600 a couple of years ago. Some one on here said they "had copies" on the gold label issue, so I panicked and got rid. [ I had just bought an Oxford Nights for big bucks just prior to that guy flogging them on ebay every week, ] Never seen a red & white one for sale since.

-->

QUOTE(mark.b @ Sep 28 2006, 05:29 PM) link

dont you also have to be registered if you are a limited company?

mark

No. It's based on Turnover (sales / billings) regardless of status (incorporation / partnership etc.)

If you're VAT registered it does have HUGE advantages, though.

Sean

Interesting ideas regarding market fluctuation - I really don't think this is the *last* time to get your collection in top shape though. What will happen when my parents' generation (I'm 29) start letting their top collections loose? They are just starting now. I have been getting into collections of 55-70 year olds that wouldn't have considered selling five, ten years ago. I am aching to get into some 55 year old academic's jazz collection... and I know they're out there just sitting. People who were coming of age in the sixties and seventies haven't yet started to really kick off and we may yet see a flood of records that nobody expected.

Then of course there are the guys my age who bought a massive amount of vinyl when the stuff was still cheap (at least, in smaller cities stateside) and are now considering selling as they move into family, different occupations, etc. I am buying the collection of a guy my age who accumulated approx. 5000 LPs in a fairly short time... and there is an amazing variety to it because he was into it all - jazz, soul, rock, oddball.

This is probably not 100% relevant to soul 7" collectors... but that's my 2 for what it's worth.

"I do agree with John Manship, that the market has now become too far reaching and is too strong in the sense of global collectors and the numbers of people buying. So the linvestment gowth over the longer term is very very good."

Bloody hell, sounds like the FT.

Im not sure I agree that what were seeing now is a drop so that 45s are becoming bargains. I think a lot were overpriced because their value got dragged up on the coat-tails of in-demand titles.

I do accept this global reach argument in that more demand via more access will push some prices up but it's also pretty evident there is no or little demand for 45s that IMO are listed way over the top.

Last night on Ebay I got for £20 inc P&P a Mint 45 that this week is listed on various sites at £55,£75, and £80.It was only that cos I was bidding against 2 US buyers There's nowt with the global reach of Ebay so I can see no justification for the high price here in the UK.

I know that's only one example but I think from my experience it is an accurate reflection of too many dealers/collectors over-rating what they are selling.

Im a bit perturbed that at 54 the nice man in NYC is waiting for me to pop my clogs and if he's reading this Im gonna tell his dad. I do agree with him though that jazz/doo-wop/rockabilly collections will be coming onto the market when those older collectors begin to move on, and the same thing will happen with the soul collections.

ROD

The point about older collectors collections coming back to the market is an interesting one.

If we consider the demographics of the scene generally we can assume that we are approaching 40 years of scene activity and collecting. If we make a general assumption that collectors start in their late teens/early 20's we have a a fair number of soulies approaching their 60's who if they have not already divested themselves of their collections either piecemeal or en masse may well do so over the next few years or so.

Depending on collecting issues at the time, this could have a marked effect on values. I wonder whether or not there has been a comparible period in the last 40 years where prices have been affected by significant collections being disposed of and if not this may partly because when one trend seems to have come to an end the scene has re-invented itself and found alternative styles to collect ie post-Wigan, post-Stafford, post-Keele etc. I'm sure those collectors who did sell off after these periods would have a view.

The above is just a general assumption on my part, it's not really based on understanding prices as a whole which seems to be mighty complex and subject to many variables

The point about older collectors collections coming back to the market is an interesting one.

If we consider the demographics of the scene generally we can assume that we are approaching 40 years of scene activity and collecting. If we make a general assumption that collectors start in their late teens/early 20's we have a a fair number of soulies approaching their 60's who if they have not already divested themselves of their collections either piecemeal or en masse may well do so over the next few years or so.

Depending on collecting issues at the time, this could have a marked effect on values. I wonder whether or not there has been a comparible period in the last 40 years where prices have been affected by significant collections being disposed of and if not this may partly because when one trend seems to have come to an end the scene has re-invented itself and found alternative styles to collect ie post-Wigan, post-Stafford, post-Keele etc. I'm sure those collectors who did sell off after these periods would have a view.

The above is just a general assumption on my part, it's not really based on understanding prices as a whole which seems to be mighty complex and subject to many variables

As I started the thread, figured I'd chip in with a couple of observation..(non VAT related):

I don't see The Northern Soul Collecting "scene" as any different from past collecting "scenes". Blues/DooWop/Rock n Roll have all see their "scene's" records become harder to shift as the "clientele" simply fade away. The top end stuff will always be sought after but I'm talking about records that most long time collectors know are around in large numbers but still currently appear on lists at what I would class as inflated prices. The old cry of "supply and demand" (Which I've never subscribed to as a worthwhile yardstick for the price of records on lists anyway), will, eventually, become true I reckon. Once the lack of numbers can't sustain the number of clubs and the guys who collect cos they fancy themselves as DJs start shedding their stuff it'll be vinyl utopia for collectors.

I've seen a few "investor collectors" start getting twitchy already.......

I've never bought a record on a credit card. Can it really be that people run up 10,000s of pound debt for records? They must wanna "DJ" REALLY bad!

Finally...Once the downturn in prices happens, does anyone think they'll bounce back as in a boom and bust cycle? Northern Soul Collecting in 2025? I daresay there'll still be a few of us around still bemoaning the lack of a Junior McCants in our collections, but let's get serious here folks. Couldn't climb the stairs of the 100 Club at that age, never mind fling ourselves around the floor to Ady's latest girlie uptempo stomper discovery!

Regards,

Dave

www.theresthatbeat.com

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

www.soulclub.org

www.deancourtney.com

Im a bit perturbed that at 54 the nice man in NYC is waiting for me to pop my clogs and if he's reading this Im gonna tell his dad. I do agree with him though that jazz/doo-wop/rockabilly collections will be coming onto the market when those older collectors begin to move on, and the same thing will happen with the soul collections.

ROD

Ha! Didn't mean to make it sound like I'm salivating, waiting for the older collectors to kick off. Merely an observation as a younger dealer who's bought some decent stuff lately off guys my folks' age who have begun to divest. Talking to them it does appear that these collectors would NOT have sold five, ten years ago.

Again, I neither collect nor deal northern so my outlook's a bit different but as it concerns my friends who got started collecting rare groove in the early to mid 90s, they are starting to divest and that is bringing a lot of titles back into the market that were much harder to find as recently as five years ago.

If you look at hip-hop records, a lot of titles that fetched $40-75 now are hard sells at $25, primarily because too many collectors divested at the same time and flooded the market with titles that were, at one point, hard to get. I personally think hip-hop will come back but it will be quite a while. Most of the titles that commanded money at some point were printed in (relatively) large numbers and unlike soul, jazz, or rock titles there was not a lot of dumping, deleting, destroying, etc. and there is greater quantity on any given title out there than collectors that want them.

"NYC" I knew you weren't but I am. If my mate catches a cold Im imagining his 45s slotting into my collection. Such a bummer when he shrugs it off and it doesn't develop into double pneumonia.

Im with Dave. Once the prices begin to fall there won't be a rebound this time. A few disillusioned heavy-hitters and who knows. Is it starting right now? Maybe signs are there that people are getting pickier esp. with those 45s that are basically collection fillers or at the lower end of the market.

George Blackwell is currently £900+ with 3 hours to go [180 more than it went for quite recently] so still plenty of time for the investor to offload.

ROD

You're probably right - what are the kids collecting?

not records at all, it seems.

Cheers-

Jonny

Maybe some of the records that have been over priced for an age are now beginning to find their true level (or with a bit of luck even cheaper). Maybe many buyers who used to pay over the odds and so drove up the price are now doing their homework and refusing to pay the higher prices that have been asked the last decade for certain records. I would say many dealers had it pretty good since the return of many soulies in the mid 90's, maybe the tide is now starting to turn

Still many records I am after I can't either find (lots of 40 or 50 quidders) or the price is either still too high and I refuse to pay what is being asked or the price is pretty stable. Same for big ticket stuff and indemanders, many still fetching big bucks.

totally agree with what's written about credit ...... and would add to it that its just so easy to buy using plastic through a website or ebay. no need to phone or physically go anywhere .... and you can do it at any time of the day or night.

agree with the person who said soundclips were a good idea ...... so much stuff i've never heard that i could be buying i'm sure.

and the more professional the seller the more likely i am to buy. agree with what has been said about john manship's service ..... would also like to say that craig moerer deserves a mention in the same way. great website, fantastic service .... grades spot on (sometimes underestimates condition). i am always willing to pay a little extra if i can trust the seller and it is easy to buy.

Dear all,

just a comment from a former German and now Canadian point of view.

For me a big problem buying records in the UK is the strong pound. Normally I buy cheapies, but even these cheapies do cost between 10 and 20 pounds.

In the majority of cases I am able to find this record for 10 to 20 dollars in the US.

20 Pound = 42 Canadian Dollar

20 US Dollar = 22 Canadian Dollar

Take care

YouYou

It's not because of a strong pound it's inflated prices (even for cheapies).

It always makes me laugh when i see records for sale on Soul source with the prices way above the actual book value. These guys are just arm-chair collectors not paying any tax, VAT, import duty etc etc....do they really think these records are going to sell!?

Just a word about the price guides, they are just that, a "guide".....all of the US dealers have the guides but things change so quickly.....check out ace Spectrum at 100 and the Cearars at 20 for just 2 examples........

I hear Johns "version 4" will be out soon.........

Chris.

" It always makes me laugh when i see records for sale on Soul source with the prices way above the actual book value"

Just a word about the price guides, they are just that, a "guide

Chris

With the above two statements you are contradicting yourself the price guides are just that, so what's the "actual book value" you're talking about then?

Derek

With the above two statements you are contradicting yourself the price guides are just that, so what's the "actual book value" you're talking about then?

....

Derek, its the actual price the record will sell for.....all the main dealers know what that is.....

On one hand i was talking about guys selling stuff on here on the other I was talking about buying records from America....

I always think when I`m in the US how it seems a million miles away from a sweaty working mans club full of middle aged guys dancing to the same old tunes.....

Chris

Derek, its the actual price the record will sell for.....all the main dealers know what that is.....

Or do they all just chance it with the same comedy high price and hope for the best?

Derek

It always makes me laugh when i see records for sale on Soul source with the prices way above the actual book value. These guys are just arm-chair collectors not paying any tax, VAT, import duty etc etc....do they really think these records are going to sell!?

Chris

Please can you clarify some points?

Who on SS would pay tax, VAT import duty except people who deal in record for a living (i.e. being in business?)?

What constitutes an arm-chair collector (apart from people who actually collect arm chairs?)?

What is a ‘book value’? Manship’s guide version ‘x’? and / or the TB one?

Chris.

I always think when I`m in the US how it seems a million miles away from a sweaty working mans club full of middle aged guys dancing to the same old tunes.....

How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie

Chris

"NYC" I knew you weren't but I am. If my mate catches a cold Im imagining his 45s slotting into my collection. Such a bummer when he shrugs it off and it doesn't develop into double pneumonia.

Im with Dave. Once the prices begin to fall there won't be a rebound this time. A few disillusioned heavy-hitters and who knows. Is it starting right now? Maybe signs are there that people are getting pickier esp. with those 45s that are basically collection fillers or at the lower end of the market.

George Blackwell is currently £900+ with 3 hours to go [180 more than it went for quite recently] so still plenty of time for the investor to offload.

ROD

I think it was me who sold the last one, and that copy was mint, only went for something like £680! The £900 one looks way way down the league compared to the one I sold. (It was selling it for someone else before anyone says I'm being greedy!)

Derek, its the actual price the record will sell for.....all the main dealers know what that is.....

Or do they all just chance it with the same comedy high price and hope for the best?

Derek

Someone on here is currently selling a Candi Staton PRESSING for £50.

Good luck!

I always think when I`m in the US how it seems a million miles away from a sweaty working mans club full of middle aged guys dancing to the same old tunes.....

Chris

Is this a Gerald Ratner moment?

Yep! totally agree with you there. I sold my "If you love me show me" to a friend of mine for £600 a couple of years ago. Some one on here said they "had copies" on the gold label issue, so I panicked and got rid. [ I had just bought an Oxford Nights for big bucks just prior to that guy flogging them on ebay every week, ] Never seen a red & white one for sale since.

I always thought the Gold ones were much harder to locate than the Red and White copies? having said that i'm on my second Gold copy, bought the first one for £18.00 way back sold it, then replaced with my now copy for £30.00 also a bit back now, i've seen more Red and White ones for sale in recent years than the Gold ones, all in all does it matter which copy you go for or hold in the collection, should be all about the quality of a record rather than lable or quantity around and available, always make me chuckle when a tune becomes popular and there are only a handful of copies out there, demand increases price then a 25 or 50 count turns up word gets out and either they slip out one by one at the inflated price or the market is flooded price drops and so does the appeal and interest, funny that don't you think? when as i say it should be about the quality of a record rather than the cudos of owning something which not too many people have, in my opinion when more copies turn up it just means collectors of the music have a more honest and fair chance of owning a copy?

Example would it make any difference if say 100 copies of the Four Tracks - Like My Love For You - Mandigo surfaced which has to be a £1000.00 record these days, would it make it any less of a record if this happened? personally i don't think so. It would simply mean that more people who desire to collect original soul 45's would be able to obtain simply a great record rather than a trophy.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Is this a Gerald Ratner moment?

I think he got away with it. Luckily most of those guys are educational underachievers and can barely read and write so I don't think they would have noticed.

ROD

Wait till the Russians and Chinese start collecting in a few years time - i heard ibramovich is partial to a bit of northern soul

Prices will just go up and up. But don't you hate people who over charge for something you buy. However people like John seem respected to buy from. Another thing is do we always have to use Northern Soul/soul price guides i only use it for music that ain't listed in record collector price guide cause for me that has always been a bible for prices of records.

I think this ad just sums up for me the complete farce that is 45 valuation

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...47&ssPageNa

Over £1600 yet seller will take less than 25% of that at set sale. The final bid is roughly 13% of total supposed value.

I couldn't have been the only person on here to see this [Pete S.?].

ROD

I think this ad just sums up for me the complete farce that is 45 valuation

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...47&ssPageNa

Over £1600 yet seller will take less than 25% of that at set sale. The final bid is roughly 13% of total supposed value.

I couldn't have been the only person on here to see this [Pete S.?].

ROD

I saw it, but any lists of rare records which includes Honeyend on Spark doesn't usually attract much interest from me

I think this ad just sums up for me the complete farce that is 45 valuation

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...47&ssPageNa

Over £1600 yet seller will take less than 25% of that at set sale. The final bid is roughly 13% of total supposed value.

I couldn't have been the only person on here to see this [Pete S.?].

ROD

I saw that and was going to bid on it, but a little bit of investigation on previous items sold by the seller and the fact that the same lot was listed the week before and 'sold' to a bidder who just happens to live in the same part of the country as the seller put me off!

Adam.

Just had a look at that,Adam. Curious!!

ROD

Just had a look at that,Adam. Curious!!

ROD

Little strange isn't it? The other thing is book value of £1600 is for mint 45s and these were all described as EX so real book value should be closer to ££1200 and in all honesty the book values on those particular ones is inflated...you're never going to get £200 for Wylies's Money...

I could do a list of 45s like that with high (but unrealistic) book prices like Jaguars, Lynn August, C Vaughn Leslie etc etc. At the same time you could do a listing of totally unbooked 45s like Johnson Family, Mac Davis etc etc...which would get more? I think this particular auction is more a representation of wrongly priced items in the book rather than a general downturn in prices.

Adam.

Edited October 6, 200618 yr by Guest

I'd agree with that with the proviso that it's the guides that have inflated the prices in the first place by assuming that all 45s have risen along with certain collectible titles. Unless JM and TB got their valuation off the top of their heads then whatever benchmark they originally used is no longer valid because it's now evident a lot esp. at cheaper end don't sell for that.

I don't like the guides but Im sure John and Tim put a lot of work into compiling them so only conclusion to draw is that there is a downturn.

ROD

It's swings and roundabouts though...some titles have dropped in price but others have shot up in comparison to their 'book' price. Don't forget the guides are quite old, it will be interesting to see JMs new one when it comes out.

Adam.