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Connie Clark My Sugar Baby

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Must be totally crap in the eyes of the Frank Wilson condemnation

 

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  • Tomangoes
    Tomangoes

    Everybody else did.... At least for a while. She sounds like Chris Clark...that's the problem. Ed

  • Tomangoes
    Tomangoes

    Oh no..... Just looked at a list of former ikettes...simply stunning line up. THAT Shelley Clark is on Facebook....come on you 'FBerS'...ask her the question! Ed

  • Ian Parker
    Ian Parker

    I had a response from a guy in the states, via Facebook messenger.  A guy Called Brian Ferrari 🤔   if you look on his page, he knows his stuff   

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Er I thought it wasn't Chris Clark - certainly sounds nothing like her.

Dx

Edited by DaveNPete

  • 2 years later...
5 hours ago, Chalky said:

according to Frank, Connie was a session singer he found

Kev Roberts quoted she was an opera singer ? does anyone know at all ? (that's why I threw the piece in to create some more momentum into getting a result), but as with many things sadly we seem to be losing the folks that actually do know and I am not old enough or experienced enough 😀 was this recorded in Detroit ?

Edited by Blackpoolsoul

Frank Wilson's version was recorded in L.A. .  Since both Frank and Connie's version

share the same backing track, it's safe to say Connie's version was done there also.

 

    • Up vote 1
    2 hours ago, Tomangoes said:

    Looks like oct 21..1944.

    Perhaps in her 40s? At the recording studio?

    Screenshot_20200514-215310_Chrome.jpg

    Right!  Extremely unlikely to be this one.  Connie Clark was a session background singer in L.A., who came to Frank Wilson's attention when he was a songwriter and independent producer.  It's unlikely that she was in her 40s when he met her.  I think she was in her early 20s at the time of her Jobete L.A, and Joker Records recordings.  Also, she sounded more like in her 20s than in her 40s.  All the Jobete L.A. female background singers (that I can remember - Brenda and Patrice Holloway, Pat Hunt, Mary Love, Gloria Jones, Sandy Wynns, Jean King, Debra Dion, etc. were either in their late teens or early 20s.  I believe that young girls and women generally acted as if they had a short time window in that industry.  If they didn't make it fairly big in that industry, as a fairly-well-known singer by their mid 20s, they started leaving to return to school to work on getting into a more stable career, or taking jobs in other fields, or marrying their boyfriends and becoming housewives.  Only those prolific background groups, like The Blossoms, Raelettes, and Cookies, etc.,  could be assured of earning a regular enough income to stay in the music business as a singer, if they couldn't make a regular living through public appearances as a featured singer, or in a featured group.

    • Up vote 1
    2 hours ago, Robbk said:

    Right!  Extremely unlikely to be this one.  Connie Clark was a session background singer in L.A., who came to Frank Wilson's attention when he was a songwriter and independent producer.  It's unlikely that she was in her 40s when he met her.  I think she was in her early 20s at the time of her Jobete L.A, and Joker Records recordings.  Also, she sounded more like in her 20s than in her 40s.  All the Jobete L.A. female background singers (that I can remember - Brenda and Patrice Holloway, Pat Hunt, Mary Love, Gloria Jones, Sandy Wynns, Jean King, Debra Dion, etc. were either in their late teens or early 20s.  I believe that young girls and women generally acted as if they had a short time window in that industry.  If they didn't make it fairly big in that industry, as a fairly-well-known singer by their mid 20s, they started leaving to return to school to work on getting into a more stable career, or taking jobs in other fields, or marrying their boyfriends and becoming housewives.  Only those prolific background groups, like The Blossoms, Raelettes, and Cookies, etc.,  could be assured of earning a regular enough income to stay in the music business as a singer, if they couldn't make a regular living through public appearances as a featured singer, or in a featured group.

    So my next "spanner in the works" is that I guess it's not Conny Van Dyke (Connie) under a pseudonym, who recorded in 1963 "Freddy" - Motown and  Wheelsville Records connection ?

    Edited by Blackpoolsoul

    7 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

    So my next "spanner in the works" is that I guess it's not Conny Van Dyke (Connie) under a pseudonym, who recorded in 1963 "Freddy" - Motown and  Wheelsville Records connection ?

    I really doubt that Connie Clark was Connie Van Dyke, who lived in Detroit, was a C&W singer, and won a radio station singing contest as a teenager, to win her having Motown record and release a record on her.  Connie Clark lived in L.A.  Their voices don't sound alike, at all.

    2 minutes ago, Dobber said:

    I actually did believe it was Chris Clark under another name,well you learn something new everyday!

    Everybody else did....

    At least for a while.

    She sounds like Chris Clark...that's the problem.

    Ed

    • Up vote 2

    Yes, Connie sounds enough like Chris to make that guess seem plausible.  The problem is that there aren't enough of Connie's recordings to make a thorough comparison.  Two different people can sound similar when comparing only one song, each, just by coincidence, because that one, particular song, by chance didn't require one or the other (or both) to stretch towards the end of their abilities, to hit a high or low note, or carry a long note to its end, or bring out a particular unique personal style nuance that would set one apart from the other.  There are songs that challenge the singer to reach for new heights, and those which are more standard, in which less differences in singing style come out.  Our problem here is that we don't have a Connie Clark recording that challenges her enough to hear some (maybe ANY) of her unique style features, that would set her apart from Chris to a degree which would make it obvious that they were two different people.  "My Sugar Baby" IS a song that could challenge a singer such as Connie.  But, unfortunately, she didn't challenge herself enough by changing her emotional input enough to produce enough of a personal style difference to make it obvious that she is not Chris Clark.  To me, she DOES sound different enough from the way Chris does on several recordings, but not quite enough for me to rule out the possibility that they aren't the same person.  In other words, if a gun were put to my head, and the holder would ask me to decide if they are the same person, or 2 different people, and if my answer would be wrong he would fire it, I would guess they were 2 different people.  BUT, on the other hand, I am not confident enough that that is absolutely true, for me to bet my entire assets on that fact - proving that I'm not convinced enough that I can rule out any possibility that they ARE the same person.

    • Up vote 1

    After listening to several Chris Clark cuts, I've changed my mind.  I'm very confident that Chris and Connie were two different people.  Every song sung by Chris Clark that I've played, and can remember in my head has her with a lighter, less full voice, which gets "breathy" whenever she reaches for higher notes, or at the end of extending to a longer note/  Connie, on the other hand, has a more full, and heavy voice all through her song, and her voice never gets "breathy", even when she extends for a long note, or in reaching for the high end of her range.  Also, although their individual tones are fairly close as unrelated people go, they are different enough to surmise that they are different people (e.g. ALL Chris Clark's recordings reveal personal tones that are much more alike (with each other), than they are to Connie's "My Sugar Baby".   So, until I hear other cuts by Connie that have her singing in a lighter, less full voice, with a tone closer to Chris', AND getting "breathy" when extending a long note, or to the high end of her range, I'll continue to feel very confident that they are/were two different people.

    • Up vote 1

    It is my firm belief that Connie Clark is in fact Shellie (sometimes Shelly) Clark who was a former Ikette and in the Honey Cone. Reason being I believe she trained as an opera singer as already noted plus she was LA based from 1957 and did a lot of session work. Perhaps someone can do a little investigating?

    Oh no.....

    Just looked at a list of former ikettes...simply stunning line up.

    THAT Shelley Clark is on Facebook....come on you 'FBerS'...ask her the question!

    Ed

    • Up vote 2

    Shelly (Clark) Wright,  was/is married to Verdine White,  (EWF Fame).

       maybe we could get a lead from him or the Earth wind & fire website ?

    Edited by Ian Parker

    • Up vote 1
    1 hour ago, Simon T said:

    don't know if this would help id the vocalist?

    Connie Clark - My Sugar Babyxx.mp3 1.1 MB · 0 downloads

    What's the story on this recording?  Why do you think it can help id the vocalist?  - because the instrumental is out of the way?  I guess we can hear more easily that this person is definitely NOT Chris Clark.  Do we know that THIS singer IS Connie Clark?

    57 minutes ago, Robbk said:

    What's the story on this recording?  Why do you think it can help id the vocalist?  - because the instrumental is out of the way?  I guess we can hear more easily that this person is definitely NOT Chris Clark.  Do we know that THIS singer IS Connie Clark?

    my bad, i made it all up.

    On 14/05/2020 at 20:39, Chalky said:

    according to Frank, Connie was a session singer he found

    If this is the case then she wasn't an Ikette? 

    Like most people, I thought it was Chris Clark, but I wouldn't be surprised if she's a blue-eyed soulstress. 

    2 hours ago, Soul-slider said:

    If this is the case then she wasn't an Ikette? 

    Like most people, I thought it was Chris Clark, but I wouldn't be surprised if she's a blue-eyed soulstress. 

    I think she was an Ikette after she recorded for Frank Wilson.  And I'm guessing that she was a background singer both before and after she was an Ikette, given that she didn't have enough of a solo and group member career to earn a steady living.

    8 hours ago, Robbk said:

    I think she was an Ikette after she recorded for Frank Wilson.  And I'm guessing that she was a background singer both before and after she was an Ikette, given that she didn't have enough of a solo and group member career to earn a steady living.

    Correct Rob here they are mentioned on the same page in John Clements book

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Y3_ctCvFZDoC&pg=PA274&lpg=PA274&dq='Shelly'+Clark+frank+wilson&source=bl&ots=1LsrNS92uF&sig=ACfU3U1ZaTVz5-ZYanoWoXVbPqfXxSEE-w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiAvr6Mr7rpAhVTu3EKHYlCAkwQ6AEwCHoECA0QAQ#v=onepage&q='Shelly' Clark frank wilson&f=false

    • Up vote 1
    32 minutes ago, Chalky said:

    I've sent Shelly a message, see if she gets back to me.

    The thing I found with that bloody facebook is unless you're friends with them, any messages sent get hidden in the 'message requests' box and the recipient doesn't get a notice. So, unless she goes into her message request box she may never see your question. Frustrating! Fingers crossed, Chalky.

    • Up vote 1

    I had an automated reply so hopefully they will get back to me, think it is a "page" as well rather than personal so she should see it.  Know what you mean had loads never responded to.

     

    Edited by Chalky

    I had a response from a guy in the states, via Facebook messenger.
     A guy Called Brian Ferrari 🤔

      if you look on his page, he knows his stuff 

     

    2087F922-A5BC-4002-8402-C27D2CE76CF8.png

    •
    • Up vote 2
    12 minutes ago, Ian Parker said:

    I had a response from a guy in the states, via Facebook messenger.
     A guy Called Brian Ferrari 🤔

      if you look on his page, he knows his stuff 

     

    2087F922-A5BC-4002-8402-C27D2CE76CF8.png

    Used to follow his posts few years ago, put some great photos up.

    Edited by Chalky

    8 hours ago, Tomangoes said:

    Since there's that big low rider Chicano Robin Molina scene out there in LA....I wonder if they / he could throw some light on it?

    Ed

    Couldn't hurt to contact him.   Does he interview old producers and artists from the '60s?  Is there an L.A. person who does what Bob A. did in Chicago?  Someone I could have asked about Connie was KGFJ DJ Herman Griffith, who was a producer and part owner of Joker Records.  But, I believe he died some years ago.  Why do we wait so long to ask these questions, until no one is around to answer them?  My experience has been that even people who were involved in the recording sessions of these 45s don't remember any details 20-30-40 or 50 years later, of these one-off 45s by one-off artists.  I found that true with Mike McLean, Robert Bateman, The Holland Brothers, and so many others.  Unless the people in question were around the studios or company offices regularly, AND, the person being asked was friendly with them, and they had at least several close working or personal dealings with them, they became just a name they remember from the past, about which they can remember nothing else.  Like so many of them said, "I can't even remember working on that session.  We did so many.  It was just 'work' to us."  Unless we get lucky, and actually find someone who knew Connie personally, outside the business, as well as in, we're not likely to find anyone who knows anything about her, including if she also sang under another name.

    • Up vote 2

    I've even been through ALL the youtube vids of it as sometimes they throw up info, family members commenting (you can learn a lot from these vids) but nothing, nada, zilch!

    I still think she could be of caucasian descent.

     

    Edited by Soul-slider

    • Up vote 1
    28 minutes ago, Robbk said:

    Couldn't hurt to contact him.   Does he interview old producers and artists from the '60s?  Is there an L.A. person who does what Bob A. did in Chicago?  Someone I could have asked about Connie was KGFJ DJ Herman Griffith, who was a producer and part owner of Joker Records.  But, I believe he died some years ago.  Why do we wait so long to ask these questions, until no one is around to answer them?  My experience has been that even people who were involved in the recording sessions of these 45s don't remember any details 20-30-40 or 50 years later, of these one-off 45s by one-off artists.  I found that true with Mike McLean, Robert Bateman, The Holland Brothers, and so many others.  Unless the people in question were around the studios or company offices regularly, AND, the person being asked was friendly with them, and they had at least several close working or personal dealings with them, they became just a name they remember from the past, about which they can remember nothing else.  Like so many of them said, "I can't even remember working on that session.  We did so many.  It was just 'work' to us."  Unless we get lucky, and actually find someone who knew Connie personally, outside the business, as well as in, we're not likely to find anyone who knows anything about her, including if she also sang under another name.

    Time flies Rob, Herman passed in 1989 😭

    3 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

    Time flies Rob, Herman passed in 1989 😭

    I thought I remembered him passing on.  You see, you've got to ask even ME your questions right now, before I get more senile! 😜

    Her'e a rare lead from Shelly on a Honey Cone song. To me, this doesn't sound like

    the same singer on "My Sugar Baby" -

     

    Edited by The Yank

    • Up vote 2
    25 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

    Never ever could it possibly be ?

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LIUDsSwiY_EC&pg=PT141&lpg=PT141&dq=connie+herman+griffin&source=bl&ots=YZWxHCm5zj&sig=ACfU3U3vYI4jCVzMqF_UENEDQkaQi6HIuA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjoou6wvLvpAhUraRUIHTs6CXkQ6AEwDHoECAsQAQ#v=onepage&q=connie herman griffin&f=false

    Given the fact Frank said she was session singer I think we can stop throwing names of well known singers in the hat, I’m sure Frank would have remembered recording someone well known

    Just out of curiosity, where did this Kev Roberts said Connie Clark was an opera singer quote come from??

    In one of his Top 500 books, he said Connie was Chris Clark. He did mention Louise "Miss L.L." Lewis

    was a former opera singer but not Connie .

     

    Edited by The Yank

    3 minutes ago, The Yank said:

    Just out of curiosity, where did this Kev Roberts said Connie Clark was an opera singer quote come from??

    In one of his Top 500 books, he said Connie was Chris Clark. He did mention Louise "Miss L.L." Lewis

    was a former opera singer but not Connie .

     

    I presume from Frank himself 

    @Goldsoul

    1 hour ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

    Never ever could it possibly be ?

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LIUDsSwiY_EC&pg=PT141&lpg=PT141&dq=connie+herman+griffin&source=bl&ots=YZWxHCm5zj&sig=ACfU3U3vYI4jCVzMqF_UENEDQkaQi6HIuA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjoou6wvLvpAhUraRUIHTs6CXkQ6AEwDHoECAsQAQ#v=onepage&q=connie herman griffin&f=false

    I don't understand your referring us to this book citation.  L.A. DJ Herman Griffith has nothing at all to do with Cincinnati's and Detroit's Herman Griffin.  And, as far as I know, Mary Wells had nothing to do with Connie Cark.

    23 minutes ago, Robbk said:

    I don't understand your referring us to this book citation.  L.A. DJ Herman Griffith has nothing at all to do with Cincinnati's and Detroit's Herman Griffin.  And, as far as I know, Mary Wells had nothing to do with Connie Cark.

    Just searching for answers Rob and as I have said before my experience is not as good on these things I am still a younger whippersnapper

    On 17/05/2020 at 21:34, Robbk said:

    I don't understand your referring us to this book citation.  L.A. DJ Herman Griffith has nothing at all to do with Cincinnati's and Detroit's Herman Griffin.  And, as far as I know, Mary Wells had nothing to do with Connie Cark.

    Which one was married to Mary Wells?

    Ed

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