Sorry, a few questions, probably common knowledge but not to me!

For me it's the ultimate record to have ever surfaced and i think many others would agree.  First heard by me only 5 or so years ago (yes i know) so after first hearing it still has those magic ingredients which make it so unique, the rawness, the story, the energy the music the vocals of course the elusiveness - I've NEVER had the joy of hearing this at a "function".

 

1. Is the intro performed by them or is it a "sample" from the Supremes? obviously quality of recordings is both very different, i really can't tell?

2. What is the instrument used? is it a guitar?

3. I understand there are 4/5/6? but did the group ever say how many copies were originally pressed?

Just curious

PS As time goes on, I'm starting to think that the 16K copy recently was an absolute bargain😆

It's massively wonky!!!! But brilliant, perfect soul tune!! Last Don Gardner was 20k, Junior Mcants 15k (allegedly) maybe 16k is about right?? A fantastic record if  you love soul music....if you don't, and don't get it, it would sound horrendous!! Thank you.. Rob

P.s no idea about 1and 2 but it's certainly rare! 

No yawning necessary...this record is fast becoming Number One of all time. Very rare indeed but has been played out sparingly since the 1990’s - Butch brought it to a wider audience but newcomers to the scene may well have not heard it ‘live’ spun on original vinyl. Question 3 is probably the toughest to answer but there are probably fewer than 10 copies at a rough guess. Like many top tunes, it is slightly quirky but full of the elements dancers love to hear and much longer than the average track which is a huge bonus. I’ll leave the first two questions to the experts, suffice to say that this record represents the epitome of tunes and one that only the fortunate few will ever own.

19 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

No yawning necessary...this record is fast becoming Number One of all time. Very rare indeed but has been played out sparingly since the 1990’s - Butch brought it to a wider audience but newcomers to the scene may well have not heard it ‘live’ spun on original vinyl. Question 3 is probably the toughest to answer but there are probably fewer than 10 copies at a rough guess. Like many top tunes, it is slightly quirky but full of the elements dancers love to hear and much longer than the average track which is a huge bonus. I’ll leave the first two questions to the experts, suffice to say that this record represents the epitome of tunes and one that only the fortunate few will ever own.

I knew someone  would answer more eloquentently than me!! Thank you Frankie!! ...Rob

Edited December 3, 20231 yr by Lionelonthevinyl

There’s over 13 or 14 copies , take my word for it as I’m not going to go through them all but there is ,  me and friends counted that many after going through who had copies and who they sold them too , one well known person had 3 copies supposedly,I missed it twice myself once privately another when it was auctioned just too much for me , btw there’s rarer records less copies well known big hitters that are cheaper but in my opinion not nearly as good 

Edited December 3, 20231 yr by Paul Shirley

Yesterday’s MixCloud offering from Pete Smith made my jaw drop...

All from same bloke I pestered Andy for at least 5 years , Pete was cleaning them up for Andy ….. not for me to say peoples names so I don’t  but I even phoned Pete asking if he could influence the guy who’s name I won’t say 😄 Apart from A R 

Edited December 3, 20231 yr by Paul Shirley

Thanks all, your comments always make great reading, perhaps my questions 1 and 2 maybe unanswerable except 3 i.e how many copies - thankyou and interesting!

They of course would have known the Supremes YKMHO, they obviously liked it enough. I always wonder if they actually just played the Supremes intro on a record player when then recorded it slightly sped up? Perhaps they thought we really like YKMHO a lot but felt they could make it so much better, Silas said i know we aren't the funk Bros and the studio isn't Hitsville and we are not The Supremes but we've got some great alternative lyrics and a different melody, we could make it a bit more upbeat beefy and raw and more "banging" - So glad they did.

I find it fairly mediocre, am I alone?

The intro is easy to do on a guitar.

There are between 10 and 20 copies at least.  There was three here, three at least in NY, one in Japan (was two).  Andy then got three copies off relatives and others have turned up over the years.  The intro is a guitar and it isn't the Supremes intro sampled although it is similar.  As for not played much since the 90s?  Need to get out more.  Shifty, Mick H hammered it, Kitch before he sold it to Andy Killick who played it, Ted, Andy on occasion he dj'ed etc.

Edited December 4, 20231 yr by Chalky

...I see its in inverted commas, but sample's prob not the right word, wasn't until the mid 80's that samplers were available to most...not that backing tracks went reused / edited prior to then but this is most likely just re recorded going for the same feel...lot of talented folks in those recording studios... soz to be a terminology pedant...

13 minutes ago, Pigeon Thing said:

...I see its in inverted commas, but sample's prob not the right word, wasn't until the mid 80's that samplers were available to most...not that backing tracks went reused / edited prior to then but this is most likely just re recorded going for the same feel...lot of talented folks in those recording studios... soz to be a terminology pedant...

Many were trying to replicate the Motown sound back then so only natural there would be some imitation.

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

There are between 10 and 20 copies at least.  There was three here, three at least in NY, one in Japan (was two).  Andy then got three copies off relatives and others have turned up over the years.  The intro is a guitar and it isn't the Supremes intro sampled although it is similar.  As for not played much since the 90s?  Need to get out more.  Mick H hammered it, Kitch before he sold it to Andy Killick who played it, Ted etc.

Think it was Kitch that had 3 copies at one time.

Always remember Shane saying the vocal sounded like Al Jolson (lol) when we first started discussing this fine record many moons ago.

Lastly I think a previous thread in the box section of this fine site, has an acapella version where someone, possibly Simon has isolated the vocals. That gets the hairs on the back of your neck going I can tell yer.

5 minutes ago, Simsy said:

Think it was Kitch that had 3 copies at one time.

Always remember Shane saying the vocal sounded like Al Jolson (lol) when we first started discussing this fine record many moons ago.

Lastly I think a previous thread in the box section of this fine site, has an acapella version where someone, possibly Simon has isolated the vocals. That gets the hairs on the back of your neck going I can tell yer.

It was Andy with the three copies

3 minutes ago, Chalky said:

It was Andy with the three copies

Ah right, thought Kitch had multiple copies at one time but may have been mistaken.

Remember reading about someone stumbling across a copy in the States at a record fair or sim. Unsure of condition, but think that copy went to auction?

12 hours ago, Thinksmart said:

I find it fairly mediocre, am I alone?

The intro is easy to do on a guitar.

Nope, I don’t dislike it, but I'm happy to say I prefer 'The Soul Set - Will You Ever Learn' a million times over Mello Souls...

No offence, it’s ok but nothing special, there are thousands of better sounds out there and a million times cheaper , each to their own but for me it’s one for the Anoraks and virtue signallers, I will now Batten Down the Hatches

ML

2 hours ago, Mal C said:

Nope, I don’t dislike it, but I'm happy to say I prefer 'The Soul Set - Will You Ever Learn' a million times over Mello Souls...

This topic is going off track now the post wasn't who likes Mello Souls and who doesn't? - Mal??😄??

Oppps,  that said I think you might have answers already... 🙂

2 minutes ago, Mal C said:

Oppps,  that said I think you might have answers already... 🙂

Thanks Mal, yep think solved - sort of?,...................... May do as another post "Who hates Mello Souls?" 😁

19 hours ago, Lionelonthevinyl said:

It's massively wonky!!!! But brilliant, perfect soul tune!! Last Don Gardner was 20k, Junior Mcants 15k (allegedly) maybe 16k is about right?? A fantastic record if  you love soul music....if you don't, and don't get it, it would sound horrendous!! Thank you.. Rob

P.s no idea about 1and 2 but it's certainly rare! 

The last Don Gardner sold for 8,500 dollars a couple of months ago good copy as well 

53 minutes ago, Ted Massey said:

The last Don Gardner sold for 8,500 dollars a couple of months ago good copy as well 

A don Gardner on here a few weeks back,I believe it took some selling,relisted and price dropped a few times! The single that came with the lp  didn’t help the original 45 I reckon!

5 hours ago, Hooker1951 said:

No offence, it’s ok but nothing special, there are thousands of better sounds out there and a million times cheaper , each to their own but for me it’s one for the Anoraks and virtue signallers, I will now Batten Down the Hatches

ML

LOL, it was NEVER meant to be a popularity contest, personally i absolutely LOVE it to bits always have probably always will, but................It's certainly not my all-time favourite which i don't really have anyway. Actually i much prefer Jerry Blackshear - You are the one, a modern rarity which nobody has ever heard of and a good few more, but i DO find MSs (Mello Souls) utterly intriguing! 

Intriguing because before MSs blew me away i was ONLY into 70s and 80s (and The Impressions/Gaye) and the MSs actually changed my perception completely of NS and what i did and didn't like. Now I'm slowly delving further and further back into the past now my loves are mid to late 60s and especially some of those NS Monsters which id never have bothered with before hearing MSs. For me i thank MSs for that.

OK, i am going to post "Which records are cheaper and better than Mello Souls?"😁

Dax

51 minutes ago, Soul Salad said:

LOL, it was NEVER meant to be a popularity contest, personally i absolutely LOVE it to bits always have probably always will, but................It's certainly not my all-time favourite which i don't really have anyway. Actually i much prefer Jerry Blackshear - You are the one, a modern rarity which nobody has ever heard of and a good few more, but i DO find MSs (Mello Souls) utterly intriguing! 

Intriguing because before MSs blew me away i was ONLY into 70s and 80s (and The Impressions/Gaye) and the MSs actually changed my perception completely of NS and what i did and didn't like. Now I'm slowly delving further and further back into the past now my loves are mid to late 60s and especially some of those NS Monsters which id never have bothered with before hearing MSs. For me i thank MSs for that.

OK, i am going to post "Which records are cheaper and better than Mello Souls?"😁

Dax

Hi Dax

Trust me there are tens of thousands which are better and millions that are cheaper, I could write you a list but it would take years, buy a John man ship reference book take your time start with artists beginning with A  playing their lists of recording on U tube and you will many every time, 

ML

Does nowt for me seems disjointed to me and all over the place but that's my opinion .

Edited December 4, 20231 yr by Shinehead

😅I'm NEVER EVER going to mention that "group" again - lesson learnt😇

It was a dance floor monster in the mid 80s, the intro alone dragged you to the floor.  Best Northern record ever for me.  It needs to be heard loud in a venue to be best received.
I get some don’t like it, would be boring if we all liked the same. 

Edited December 5, 20231 yr by Chalky

29 minutes ago, Chalky said:

It was a dance floor monster in the mid 80s, the intro alone dragged you to the floor.  Best Northern record ever for me.  It needs to be heard loud in a venue to be best received.
I get some don’t like it, would be boring if we all liked the same. 

twice in the same spot, Lincoln Drill Hall

ever get the feeling you've been treated?

52 minutes ago, Hippo said:

twice in the same spot, Lincoln Drill Hall

ever get the feeling you've been treated?

I’ would have asked for my money back, no offence

ML

Returning to the original three questions, Andy Rix, super-sleuth, answered two of the them in a previous Soul-Source article, well worth reading again...The introduction was indeed borrowed from a Supremes song and the introduction was played by Keith the guitarist.

"We can make it"  obviously has the riff off The Supremes intro but the other side to me sounds a bit like "Keep On Pushing" by The Impressions to my ears.

41 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Returning to the original three questions, Andy Rix, super-sleuth, answered two of the them in a previous Soul-Source article, well worth reading again...The introduction was indeed borrowed from a Supremes song and the introduction was played by Keith the guitarist.

Didn't sound to me like "just" a guitar - That certainly does answer 2 questions - Big Thanks for that. Surely "must" have pressed a couple of hundred at least? - wonder after all these years if there's a dusty box of them sitting in a loft somewhere?

1 hour ago, Soul Salad said:

Didn't sound to me like "just" a guitar - That certainly does answer 2 questions - Big Thanks for that. Surely "must" have pressed a couple of hundred at least? - wonder after all these years if there's a dusty box of them sitting in a loft somewhere?

Leave them in the Loft LoL,

ML

On 04/12/2023 at 09:26, Simsy said:

Think it was Kitch that had 3 copies at one time.

Always remember Shane saying the vocal sounded like Al Jolson (lol) when we first started discussing this fine record many moons ago.

Lastly I think a previous thread in the box section of this fine site, has an acapella version where someone, possibly Simon has isolated the vocals. That gets the hairs on the back of your neck going I can tell yer.

Al Jolson lolol.. i will never hear it the same ever again.. the lead vocal not the greatest in the world, but he`s way better than Margaret Little.. i think this is a good record but will never be the greatest for me.. i always think many are swayed by rarity, exclusivity and price tags.. part and parcel of the scene i guess.. i`m sure mick H has had 3 thru his hands but not at the same time

2 hours ago, Soul Salad said:

Didn't sound to me like "just" a guitar - That certainly does answer 2 questions - Big Thanks for that. Surely "must" have pressed a couple of hundred at least? - wonder after all these years if there's a dusty box of them sitting in a loft somewhere?

We live in hope - there could be a box somewhere or a handful sitting on a shelf. In the last year or so, I’ve corresponded with members of the Ambassadors and Bristols to be told no other members of the groups have spare copies for sale although some of the musicians are hanging on to the one copy. So, the chances of quantity turning up after over 50 years are very slim. Perhaps someone at the pressing plant kept a box or the sales rep dumped them with a family member instead of the record store...dream on...

LOL I've never heard of a record causing this much fuss and debate - well not many records can do that -  that's for sure. As Chalky rightly said "it would be boring if we all liked the same".

 

Right, who likes Antellects - Love slave?

 

58 minutes ago, Soul Salad said:

LOL I've never heard of a record causing this much fuss and debate - well not many records can do that -  that's for sure. As Chalky rightly said "it would be boring if we all liked the same".

 

Right, who likes Antellects - Love slave?

 

Hi Soul Salad There,s hundreds of records that have caused even more fuss and debate that’s the beauty of this forum you can get it of your chest and enter your opinion and only  the Soul Gods in Heaven know who,s opinion is correct BTW, Right The Antellects Love Slave below average at best that is only my opinion  btw LoL, keep on searching you will find a Gold mine of Soul out there trust me, If it sounds good to you that’s what matters follow your Soul nobody Elsies 

ML

 

28 minutes ago, Hooker1951 said:

Hi Soul Salad There,s hundreds of records that have caused even more fuss and debate that’s the beauty of this forum you can get it of your chest and enter your opinion and only  the Soul Gods in Heaven know who,s opinion is correct BTW, Right The Antellects Love Slave below average at best that is only my opinion  btw LoL, keep on searching you will find a Gold mine of Soul out there trust me, If it sounds good to you that’s what matters follow your Soul nobody Elsies 

ML

 

Thanks ML,

I do in fact have a good 500 7s and about 40 LPs, I'd say 8 of those 7s are 1-2 K records about 20 are say £20-150 records the remainder (472) are literally peanuts records or modern reissues i.e. £ 2 - 10 - I really am ALL for great/cheap records. My most recent purchase was the Philharmonics - i need i need your love for £6 - can't go wrong!

Dax

PS Seriously disagree with you about Antellects though 

3 minutes ago, Soul Salad said:

Thanks ML,

I do in fact have a good 500 7s and about 40 LPs, I'd say 8 of those 7s are 1-2 K records about 20 are say £20-150 records the remainder (472) are literally peanuts records or modern reissues i.e. £ 2 - 10 - I really am ALL for great/cheap records. My most recent purchase was the Philharmonics - i need i need your love for £6 - can't go wrong!

Dax

PS Seriously disagree with you about Antellects though 

PS LOL actually wasn't Philharmonics, God knows where i got that from? - I'll get back to you

6 minutes ago, Soul Salad said:

PS LOL actually wasn't Philharmonics, God knows where i got that from? - I'll get back to you

Was actually Incredibles - I found another love

23 minutes ago, Soul Salad said:

Was actually Incredibles - I found another love

Now that’s a lovely tune, a good sound indeed

ML

Personally I think it’s an absolute crock of poo , vocals are so weak and the music is just as bad is it loved purely because of it’s rarity?

20 minutes ago, Sheldonsoul said:

Personally I think it’s an absolute crock of poo , vocals are so weak and the music is just as bad is it loved purely because of its rarity?

IHi Sheldonsoul are you talking about MELLO souls or the incredibles?

Mello Souls £20,000 not my cup of tea

incredibles £6 nice soul sound good harmonies

ML

37 minutes ago, Sheldonsoul said:

Personally I think it’s an absolute crock of poo , vocals are so weak and the music is just as bad is it loved purely because of it’s rarity?

Loved it since the first time I heard it….

On 05/12/2023 at 19:12, Sheldonsoul said:

  is it loved purely because of it’s rarity?

Loved because it's exciting, fast and great to dance too!

Northern Soul all-nighter dynamite! 💥

Edited December 6, 20231 yr by Solidsoul

1 hour ago, Sheldonsoul said:

Personally I think it’s an absolute crock of poo , vocals are so weak and the music is just as bad is it loved purely because of it’s rarity?

I worked out i must've first heard it 7 years ago (LOL), i remember it well in Brighton no less, in a quiet low key drinking den with a very young DJ playing all sorts in the corner - That copy "must" have been a carver/the single sided one whatever. All night long i practically couldn't wait to get home and google it. I didn't know what it was but caught sight of the label and was absolutely besotted with it (DJ wasn't helpful), wasn't even at that time really my thing (far too 60s). I was "hoping" it was a ten-pound record and easy to find, it did literally blow my socks off - Now i know more about the band/the cover-up/the rarity i reckon i love it even more, it's not the song it's the whole package.

So, not the rarity of it at all but agreed elusiveness can make a record more intriguing and to some appealing - i will never own a copy and don't really feel the need to.

In a nutshell - no

Emperors new clothes springs to mind, but if you like it you like it, it’s just to my ears I can think of hundreds of records more intriguing and appealing and exciting and haunting and better that cost a mili fraction of that tune, it just never made me jump out of the starting blocks or want to and that’s my leveller with Soul music, no offence meant to those who love it, if it does it for you it does it for you good luck with it

ML

1 hour ago, Hooker1951 said:

IHi Sheldonsoul are you talking about MELLO souls or the incredibles?

Mello Souls £20,000 not my cup of tea

incredibles £6 nice soul sound good harmonies

ML

Mello souls poor recording imo I can think of hundreds way better

49 minutes ago, Solidsoul said:

It's loved because it's exciting, fast and good to dance to Northern Soul all-nighter dynamite! 

Loads of twenty quid tunes way better than Mellos guess everyone’s got there own taste and views 

3 minutes ago, Sheldonsoul said:

Loads of twenty quid tunes way better than Mellos guess everyone’s got there own taste and views 

"Personally", I've not heard any that come close. - well never at £20?, One of my favourite records ever is Esther Philips version of HIWTHI but doesn't come close to MSs for me - it's all so subjective, that's why it's so much fun!.........

Dax

2 minutes ago, Soul Salad said:

"Personally", I've not heard any that come close. - well never at £20?, One of my favourite records ever is Esther Philips version of HIWTHI but doesn't come close to MSs for me - it's all so subjective, that's why it's so much fun!.........

Dax

Really !  Obviously your soul journey is just beginning 

 there are thousands of great cheap records out there.