The Situation With Soulful House

[Barry]

Hope everyone had a good weekend.

What's the situation nowadays with niters and soulful house stuff.

I ask as I keep reading things about attendances and the age thing etc.

I know it's not everyones cuppa tea an' that but how else can youngsters be enticed to attend or begin to enjoy the soulful side of things.

Are there many niters catering in their modern rooms/sets for house stuff at all?

[Guest Baz]

I personly love it but, and its a very, very big but! much the size of Dawn Frenches, if i wanted to hear it i would go to a club that specializes in this genre, the way to get younger people into the music is not water it down and turn it into some night club rave, the way to get younger people into the music is to play tough, hard hitting, raw 60's and 70's dance music its been proved many a time, but most dont have the bottle to pull it off with the exception of nights like soul revolution et all.

One of the arts involved with soulful house is to have Djs who can mix beats and make the set of dance music one constant stream of music, and i doubt any one DJ on the NS scene can actually do this to the requiered level of expertise that is involved in mixing.

But im sure a room dedicated to soulful house would go down quite well at a nighter with the right DJs and promotion.

lets just keep the northern rooms northern

[Barry]

I personly love it but, and its a very, very big but! much the size of Dawn Frenches, if i wanted to hear it i would go to a club that specializes in this genre, the way to get younger people into the music is not water it down and turn it into some night club rave, the way to get younger people into the music is to play tough, hard hitting, raw 60's and 70's dance music its been proved many a time, but most dont have the bottle to pull it off with the exception of nights like soul revolution et all.

One of the arts involved with soulful house is to have Djs who can mix beats and make the set of dance music one constant stream of music, and i doubt any one DJ on the NS scene can actually do this to the requiered level of expertise that is involved in mixing.

But im sure a room dedicated to soulful house would go down quite well at a nighter with the right DJs and promotion.

lets just keep the northern rooms northern

I don't think you have to water anything down or turn it into a night club rave Baz, Dave Hawkins and myself never did at the QH years ago, we just mixed it up with quality soul music. We didn't mix either as to do so obviously cuts down your options both musically and direction-wise. I've heard a few lads on the NS scene try to mix at do's and all I'm saying is if you can't - don't.

I'm just going off what I've seen happen on the US house scene in this country (the Southport Weekender related scene if you will). Five years ago I and a few other like mindeds up and down the country started little nights off playing house/soul/disco etc to basically a house orientated younger crowd, 20 to 35. Five years down the line these same youngsters spend almost as much time seeking out older soul/disco tracks than they do house - it is a part of their lives, and more to the point, part of the reason they attend certain nights - the reason they came initially was on the back of house beats but they left with a whole lot more. Why can't this happen at a niter?

I totally agree on the point of keeping the Northern rooms Northern and I take it there are some niters that are getting youngsters in from what you say Baz!?

[Guest soulgirlie]

Hello Barry

Hope you are well .

To answer your question Soulful House has and always will be an integral part of Soul Underground ..we're not not strictly a nighter but the new venue has the potential to be running til 6am if its busy .

Our remit as ever is still to encompass quality all era soul, jazz, gospel, jazz funk ,broken beat and soulful house.

I must admit its good having a son who dj's because that in itself helps to bring in a younger clientele to balance out all us oldies.

Lin

[Dave Rimmer]

Hello Barry

Hope you are well .

To answer your question Soulful House has and always will be an integral part of Soul Underground ..we're not not strictly a nighter but the new venue has the potential to be running til 6am if its busy .

Our remit as ever is still to encompass quality all era soul, jazz, gospel, jazz funk ,broken beat and soulful house.

I must admit its good having a son who dj's because that in itself helps to bring in a younger clientele to balance out all us oldies.

Lin

Whilst I understand that's what gets played at Soul Underground, I don't think even you Lin, would claim that it's part of the Northern Soul allnighter scene, which is what the original topic was aiming at.

[Simon M]

Soul Sam's playing it at Northern events

plus I think some old All-niter jocks can mix , beat match , even laptop mixing , and rare disco edits

Edited May 8, 2007 by Simon M

[Souljazera]

answer would be simple...two rooms...u dont need the albert hall just somewhere comfortable maybe that holds 50/100 people

house music all nite long.....northern soul all nite long......modern soul all nite long.....now thats my dream venue

its not that difficult....interestingly the stomping pounding northern is almost the same bpm as house/soulful garage....check my forthcoming mix for rhythmic freedom in japan...soon come :thumbsup:

[Cunnie]

Ahh the old Soulful House nugget rears it's ugly head again.

Whenever a thread starts about Soulful House you can always gaurantee that within a couple of posts the word Northern appears.

Simple fact is SH is underground 120bpm soulful dance music from America thats released on tiny indipendent labels & quite a lot of stuff don't see the light of day (sound familiar?).

Seems to be getting popular on't Northern scene via DJ's like Sam playing things like Michael Proctor, Urban Blues Project etc.

Just a shame that some folks struggle to accept good quality Soulful dance music unless it fits into thier little pigeon hole.

Above comment works both ways as well as several Modern fans seem to shun 60s sounds.

What difference does it make wether it was made in 1967 or 2007?

If its good quality Soul music with a dance beat get it played for Gods sake.

[Souljazera]

YES I AGREE CUNNIE...are we ready for the onslaught

[Guest soulgirlie]

Whilst I understand that's what gets played at Soul Underground, I don't think even you Lin, would claim that it's part of the Northern Soul allnighter scene, which is what the original topic was aiming at.

Well Barry did ask a question aboput what gets played on modern rooms in his last sentence. Come on Dave , you know very well I'm not gonna miss a trick if its a chance to promote my venue ..you would expect nothing less

Lin

xxx

[Dave Rimmer]

Whenever a thread starts about Soulful House you can always gaurantee that within a couple of posts the word Northern appears.

The word Northern appears because the thread included the word 'niters' in the title. As this is a site for Northern and Rare Soul, and I, and probably 90% of the members aren't aware of any Soulful House allnighters, what else did you expect ?

I have no problem at all with having a room playing Soulful House at an allnighter, just don't try and force it onto me by playing it in the Northern Soul room, because it is NOT Northern Soul. If I want to listen to it, I am quite capable of finding the room it's playing in.

[Dave Rimmer]

Well Barry did ask a question aboput what gets played on modern rooms in his last sentence. Come on Dave , you know very well I'm not gonna miss a trick if its a chance to promote my venue ..you would expect nothing less

Lin

xxx

Touche

How do you get the little accent above the e ?

[Souljazera]

surely dave u would be able to find the room by following the bass!!!

the northern room would have the shrill vocals in it...

[Dave Rimmer]

surely dave u would be able to find the room by following the bass!!!

the northern room would have the shrill vocals in it...

Yes but at least the vocals would last through the whole record, not just twenty seconds in the middle of an eight minute bass driven instrumental

[Pete S]

What difference does it make wether it was made in 1967 or 2007?

Do you really want me to answer that? You think diehard northern soul people such as myself should accept electronic bleepy dance shite music with open arms? Why? What does it have in common with it's 1967 counterpart?

[Russ Vickers]

Ahh the old Soulful House nugget rears it's ugly head again.

Whenever a thread starts about Soulful House you can always gaurantee that within a couple of posts the word Northern appears.

Simple fact is SH is underground 120bpm soulful dance music from America thats released on tiny indipendent labels & quite a lot of stuff don't see the light of day (sound familiar?).

Seems to be getting popular on't Northern scene via DJ's like Sam playing things like Michael Proctor, Urban Blues Project etc.

Just a shame that some folks struggle to accept good quality Soulful dance music unless it fits into thier little pigeon hole.

Above comment works both ways as well as several Modern fans seem to shun 60s sounds.

What difference does it make wether it was made in 1967 or 2007?

If its good quality Soul music with a dance beat get it played for Gods sake.

Stop talking sense ...........mix it all up, if its got the x factor it'll work, so long as DJ's are sensible about how they put sets together.

BTW from my personal perspective, this is not about abandoning the traditional rare soul sound, its more about using Soulful House as a genre to raid for the right type of tune to mix in with the rest of our wonderful music........like every other soul genre that we have drawn from, not all the records will be suitable for a Rare Soul scene, but they'll be some hidden gems that'll have it. A lot of this stuff is harder to find than the 6ts & 7ts stuff too, unless you get it on release then in a lot of cases it almost doesnt exist in the first place.

Russ

Edited May 8, 2007 by Russ Vickers

[Guest Baz]

What difference does it make wether it was made in 1967 or 2007?

If its good quality Soul music with a dance beat get it played for Gods sake.

nothing, but i wouldn't go to a soulful house night and expect to hear uptempo 60's soul, like i wouldn't walk into a modern room expecting to hear 60's so why is it only the northern rooms that must except all these differnt styles?

I personly love SH and listen to it a fair bit, but when at a soul night or nighter i like to hear 60's there is a place for every thing, ok i wouldn;t mind hearing the odd one at a nighter, but if i got alot of it i would be asking for my money back

[Pete S]

I have no problem at all with having a room playing Soulful House at an allnighter, just don't try and force it onto me by playing it in the Northern Soul room, because it is NOT Northern Soul. If I want to listen to it, I am quite capable of finding the room it's playing in.

They have always, and will always, try to inflict this on you, it happened way back in the 70's and they've just carried on ever since, not happy with having their own rooms to play in, they have to try and force it upon people who have no interest in it whatsoever.

[Guest rachel]

electronic bleepy dance shite music

Coming soon on the daily soundfile threads....

[SteveM]

Do you really want me to answer that? You think diehard northern soul people such as myself should accept electronic bleepy dance shite music with open arms? Why? What does it have in common with it's 1967 counterpart?

Didn't think you were going to take the bait Pete. Run out of Grolsh ?

[Pete S]

Didn't think you were going to take the bait Pete. Run out of Grolsh ?

No, I am on apple juice tonight Steve and starting to feel the effects of not drinking beer (first non-football night on tv for weeks) so I thought I'd get into an argument with someone before I went to bed, but still, what the hell house music has got to do with northern soul is a question I shall be thinking about whilst lying awake unable to sleep because of alcohol withdrawals tonight

[Pete S]

Coming soon on the daily soundfile threads....

yes please!

[Souljazera]

Yes but at least the vocals would last through the whole record, not just twenty seconds in the middle of an eight minute bass driven instrumental

dave ya got me there!!! believe it or not there are some garage records with full vocals on them!!! i know its shocking

[Russ Vickers]

dave ya got me there!!! believe it or not there are some garage records with full vocals on them!!! i know its shocking

Its about queing in the tunes to the vocal & fading out after............the bits at the start & end are for those clever people to 'mix' with.

Russ

[Cunnie]

Not suggesting for 1 minute that Soulful House should be played in a Northern room or Northern in a House room (even if there are obvious connections )

Can't see a problem though if it's played in a SOUL room alongside a bit of Northern, bit of Crossover, bit of Modern, bit of 80s Boogie etc.

Might even play a bit of Disco for Pete & Baz :tomato2:

[Guest Baz]

Might even play a bit of Disco for Pete & Baz :tomato2:

Your pushing your luck now

Hey i can go along with that, played in a 'soul room'

[Guest Baz]

Can't see a problem though if it's played in a SOUL room alongside a bit of Northern, bit of Crossover, bit of Modern, bit of 80s Boogie etc.

Hey i can go along with that, played in a 'soul room'

Sounds alot like a caister thing though then, even though they dont play northern per-se they do play a fair bit of 60s

Doesn't it then take away the identity fo what the night is about?

[Cunnie]

Doesn't it then take away the identity fo what the night is about?

Not really Baz if it's done right.

A bit of everything in moderation.

Seem to be too many wedges getting driven into the whole scene at the moment & thats got to be a bad thing for the whole future of the Soul scene in general.

There's nearly 50 years of bloody great misic out there so make the most of it.

[Souljazera]

yes we need to eliminate wedges if at all possible...esp the haircut...

good music is simply that...i like the idea of mixing northern to garage that would be really different....even revolutionary!!!! then to funk...disco...modern.....crossover....back to northern.......a sort of round robin all niter....mmmmmm......might need a really open mind for that one.....

i would imagine that some people are tryingto do this???? barry may.be how is hubert street???

good discussion possibilities this topic....

we could then move it onto what would go into your round robin HOT BOX whoops done it now!!!

any suggestions for records that could be played at this fictional all niter...all genres considered

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

What's with Soulful House, to me it's hardly soul music or less. It should be devoted to the dance music scene and for any track of it's kind must surely be a modern/crossover track if it's gonna be played in the Northern room.

I like some soulful house 1 track i like a lot is Tina Moore - Never Let You Go

[Cunnie]

What's with Soulful House, to me it's hardly soul music or less. It should be devoted to the dance music scene

Is Northern not dance music?

[Russ Vickers]

What's with Soulful House, to me it's hardly soul music or less. It should be devoted to the dance music scene and for any track of it's kind must surely be a modern/crossover track if it's gonna be played in the Northern room.

I like some soulful house 1 track i like a lot is Tina Moore - Never Let You Go

What is Northern Soul ??????????????????????????????????????? The musical genre does not exist with regard to making music, its the scene & the dancers that decide what is a NS record, based on what the DJ is playing in the sets.........so if a Soulful House record that the DJ felt was right for the NS scene was played & became popular, it would be a NS record, the days of the four to the floor or it aint NS have been gone for decades. I am not saying we should have entire sets of Soulful House in NS rooms, what I am saying is, do not discount the genre, there are sounds that will be right for the NS scene, that is a fact, some may not like it, but it will happen & has to some extent.

Paul, I also think that you might be basing your opinion of Soulful House on inferior examples, its like all music you have to dig deep to get past the lowest common denominator stuff, that has been produced for the masses & get to the real deal, I am deffo no expert on this, but I know there is some good stuff out there. This to me is also not about ramming stuff down peoples throats that they dislike..............we've always had this debate about the suitability of certain genres of music to the NS scene, but on the whole they all co-exist together quite nicely on the dancefloor so long as the DJ 's put the sets together sensibly.

Russ

[Guest]

good music is simply that...i like the idea of mixing northern to garage that would be really different....even revolutionary!!!! then to funk...disco...modern.....crossover....back to northern.......a sort of round robin all niter....mmmmmm......might need a really open mind for that one.....

i would imagine that some people are tryingto do this???? barry may.be how is hubert street???

good discussion possibilities this topic....

we could then move it onto what would go into your round robin HOT BOX whoops done it now!!!

any suggestions for records that could be played at this fictional all niter...all genres considered

I would start going to niters again if there was SH goin' on.. winsford modern room was good for bordering on soulful house tracks now and again.. It's uptempo dance music and deffo has a place. it's hard going sometimes, just listening to music that was out 10 / 15 years before you were born - people who went started off the northern soul scene and northern soul nights didn't listen to 40's or 50's black american music. I'm sure there must have been a place for new release soul then, can't see why there shouldn't be now!. (sorry if I'm not making my point well, I'm absolutely knackered!).

Secret Sounds - Come back home on Z Records. It's a danced up version of a JJ Barnes track (real title escapes me). I have hearrd several 6t's tunes that have been re-worked. I still love the originals but these sounds excellent too..

Jayne.x.

[Guest stash313]

'Baby Please Come Back Home' dear...

[Dave Moore]

What is Northern Soul ??????????????????????????????????????? The musical genre does not exist with regard to making music, its the scene & the dancers that decide what is a NS record, based on what the DJ is playing in the sets.........so if a Soulful House record that the DJ felt was right for the NS scene was played & became popular, it would be a NS record, the days of the four to the floor or it aint NS have been gone for decades. I am not saying we should have entire sets of Soulful House in NS rooms, what I am saying is, do not discount the genre, there are sounds that will be right for the NS scene, that is a fact, some may not like it, but it will happen & has to some extent.

Paul, I also think that you might be basing your opinion of Soulful House on inferior examples, its like all music you have to dig deep to get past the lowest common denominator stuff, that has been produced for the masses & get to the real deal, I am deffo no expert on this, but I know there is some good stuff out there. This to me is also not about ramming stuff down peoples throats that they dislike..............we've always had this debate about the suitability of certain genres of music to the NS scene, but on the whole they all co-exist together quite nicely on the dancefloor so long as the DJ 's put the sets together sensibly.

Russ

Russ,

Get to Pittsburgh on Fri/Sat and we'll straighten yer hoooseheeeed out for ya over a few cold ones!

Regards ,

Dave

www.theresthatbeat.com

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

[Guest James Trouble]

The word Northern appears because the thread included the word 'niters' in the title. As this is a site for Northern and Rare Soul, and I, and probably 90% of the members aren't aware of any Soulful House allnighters, what else did you expect ?

I have no problem at all with having a room playing Soulful House at an allnighter, just don't try and force it onto me by playing it in the Northern Soul room, because it is NOT Northern Soul. If I want to listen to it, I am quite capable of finding the room it's playing in.

If someone was on a wind up it could be suggested you shouldn't have been playing RnB in the northern room at Crossfire at the weekend while there was an RnB room in full swing playing quality tunes next door. Black, Pot, Kettle....

Edited May 9, 2007 by James Trouble

[Simon M]

Hey James are you going to have a Keb Darge rocknroll r&b room at Soul Rev

[Barry]

The old addage good (soul) music is good (soul) music stands true and my take has always been that Northern Soul was/is majoritively made up of danceable underground black American music - and the Northern scene has always been progressive (hasn't it? )!?

I wouldn't ever want to see SH played in a 60's/70's Xover room really - the feel is different. But I do think it, very obviously, has a place in a Modern room - because that is what it is and what the term 'Modern Soul' was coined for, currently/recently issued soul music with a 'superior' (arguable I know) production quality.

The biggie SH tracks I read get played at niters do tend to be the obvious choice, there's so much more out there, as someone above quite rightly pointed out.

I know this is a bigger subject/converstaion than I have time to give it inbetween jobs at work but I don't see SH in any eradicating certain forms of traditionally played all niter tracks, just adding to them and possibly bringing in some much needed new blood to this scene. It can only in the long term add.

[Guest]

Hope everyone had a good weekend.

What's the situation nowadays with niters and soulful house stuff.

I ask as I keep reading things about attendances and the age thing etc.

I know it's not everyones cuppa tea an' that but how else can youngsters be enticed to attend or begin to enjoy the soulful side of things.

Are there many niters catering in their modern rooms/sets for house stuff at all?

Going back to Barry's initial point of having soulful house to intice youngsters to the scene, i'm the only one of my group of friends that regularly attend nighters, that actually like soulful house all the rest just don't get it... I don't think house music equals more youngsters to the scene.

I like different rooms where you can have a wander and appreciate different styles. This means that if people are interested in hearing house music, and aren't familiar with it, they can investigate in their own time rather then having it forced upon them.

[ockers]

Hi Barry great to see you at the orwell mate

certainly at morecambe modern room barry maleady played a blinding soulful dance spot last time out at easter

my wants grows ever longer

fantastic soulful hous eset perfectly mixed

and this with some good soulful disco/tracks in there

a blend of seventies and steppers and you get the idea at morecambe

reminds me in some ways of THECartlon club

hope you can make it up sometime

i think soulful house has its place in a modern room

some jazzy dancce wouldnt go amiss too for me a la mario biondi

theres plenty of great gigs up and down th country playing soulful dance/house and some brilliant records getting released

healthy scene and the music is perfect niter music for me

[Dave Rimmer]

If someone was on a wind up it could be suggested you shouldn't have been playing RnB in the northern room at Crossfire at the weekend while there was an RnB room in full swing playing quality tunes next door. Black, Pot, Kettle....

All three of 'em, in an hour and twenty minutes, especially as Ginger had played some in his spot and filled the floor. There again I happen to think that's what a DJ is supposed to do. Fill the floor

[BazM]

Hi Barry great to see you at the orwell mate

certainly at morecambe modern room barry maleady played a blinding soulful dance spot last time out at easter

my wants grows ever longer

fantastic soulful hous eset perfectly mixed

and this with some good soulful disco/tracks in there

a blend of seventies and steppers and you get the idea at morecambe

reminds me in some ways of THECartlon club

hope you can make it up sometime

i think soulful house has its place in a modern room

some jazzy dancce wouldnt go amiss too for me a la mario biondi

theres plenty of great gigs up and down th country playing soulful dance/house and some brilliant records getting released

healthy scene and the music is perfect niter music for me

Thanks Sean....Coincidently, the theme of this thread was/is exactly my intention at Morecambe, basically to play SH in a smaller room on the back of a Nighter and not to encroach into the main room. Nothing really new there and as Barry May has said in a previous post 'just mixed it up with quality soul music' and IMHO it worked. Really enjoyed it, it was the right place to do it, and the people who were there seemed to really enjoy it, therefore i'll be looking to do it some more at forthcomming gigs, so hopefully as far as it goes positively 'watch this space'

Gotta say though it definitely needs to be 'tune' and 'substance' over just matching beats

[Guest denmac]

i cant recall going to soul allnighter circa 69/70 and someone saying lets have a northern room. if i had i would have had no problem at all with a room playing northern at an allnighter. just dont try and force it onto me because its just not soul. if i wanted to listen to it i would have been quite capable of finding that room.

ps, dave r, loved that " fall down" your last played clip.

[Petebangor]

All three of 'em, in an hour and twenty minutes, especially as Ginger had played some in his spot and filled the floor. There again I happen to think that's what a DJ is supposed to do. Fill the floor

So on that basis if you'd have followed Sam and he'd have dropped a couple of house tunes that filled the floor,then you'd have to play a couple of house tunes to fill the floor also

[Dave Rimmer]

So on that basis if you'd have followed Sam and he'd have dropped a couple of house tunes that filled the floor,then you'd have to play a couple of house tunes to fill the floor also

Not really. I usually play some R & B in my set, I don't usually play House !

[Dave Rimmer]

ps, dave r, loved that " fall down" your last played clip.

Wanted to see what it sounded like.

Thought as shite goes, it was ok but it lasted eight minutes so I gave up after 90 seconds

[Guest James Trouble]

All three of 'em, in an hour and twenty minutes, especially as Ginger had played some in his spot and filled the floor. There again I happen to think that's what a DJ is supposed to do. Fill the floor

So if someone was hell bent on winding you up they could put it to you that Soul Sam playing DJ Genesis and filling the floor is a good thing?

Personally I think DJ Genesis is one of the worst things I've ever heard in my life, syrupy nonsense (although alot of people do like it, including my lovely girlfriend), and that filling a dance floor has never been the sole indicator of a record being good. Many dance floors in the land are packed every weekend to the sound of the "Cheeky Girls" but it doesn't mean that cheesey pop tunes are good records. I guess someone on a wind up could suggest to you that all of the RnB tunes that you play are equally as distastfull to some hardcore northern die hards even though you had the dance floor packed.

Dave, I'm not bothered either way mate, I'm just being a bit of devil. I spent a big chunk of my night at Crossfire in the weird swirly room trying to figure out why Roger Banks was in there with me, so I couldn't have been that bothered I just couldn't ignore you calling the kettle black

Edited May 10, 2007 by James Trouble

[jocko]

Yes but at least the vocals would last through the whole record, not just twenty seconds in the middle of an eight minute bass driven instrumental

So you dont like instrumentals played in Northern rooms then ?

[Barry]

I think that there are a massive amount of 'house' records that would change a soulies perception of house music (even if they said it didn't ), it's just that they haven't heard them.

Of course there are records that get overplayed and grate on everyones nerves but to me it could be DJ Genesis or Frank Wilson, you can't pick on new releases for that really.

[Guest Una Scot-Oz]

nothing, but i wouldn't go to a soulful house night and expect to hear uptempo 60's soul, like i wouldn't walk into a modern room expecting to hear 60's so why is it only the northern rooms that must except all these differnt styles?

Hear! Hear!