Tommy & the Derby's - Don't Play The Role - Swing

I think this is one of the best finds in ages and now JM has come up with a vg+ copy on his auction although there's a fair bit of noise on it. However its not the grading I want to know about we can all decide that ourselves, its how rare is this i've never seen a copy and i've been collecting 25 yrs although ive known the tune only about a year. Is this a holy grail tune or just sitting dorment in peoples collections.

Any views and opinions appreciated.

Best Darren

Tommy & the Derby's - Don't Play The Role - Swing

I think this is one of the best finds in ages and now JM has come up with a vg+ copy on his auction although there's a fair bit of noise on it. However its not the grading I want to know about we can all decide that ourselves, its how rare is this i've never seen a copy and i've been collecting 25 yrs although ive known the tune only about a year. Is this a holy grail tune or just sitting dorment in peoples collections.

Any views and opinions appreciated.

Best Darren

I am in touch with the guy who ran the backing band on these and other recordings at the time. He does not have a copy and the Producer/Label owner left all his old stock/masters etc in an un air-conditioned wharehouse and everyone went to a blob and unuseable.

I doubt even Tommy Tate knew it was released. The backing is Dorothy Moore (Dottie Cambridge)

I would say its pretty damn rare

Edited May 14, 200817 yr by Dave Abbott

Tommy & the Derby's - Don't Play The Role - Swing

I think this is one of the best finds in ages and now JM has come up with a vg+ copy on his auction although there's a fair bit of noise on it. However its not the grading I want to know about we can all decide that ourselves, its how rare is this i've never seen a copy and i've been collecting 25 yrs although ive known the tune only about a year. Is this a holy grail tune or just sitting dorment in peoples collections.

Any views and opinions appreciated.

Best Darren

The guys that were on backing & the label owner confirmed all the stock was lost, they were stored in a garage & in excessive heat without aircon were heat damaged beyond recognition, no copies with the label owner or backing band so far, a young Dorothy Moore was on backing too. Apparently it was recorded in the grease pit of an old garage, the forerunner to the 'Grits n Gravy' studios. Dave Abbott, did a lot of the leg work on this, with a little help from moi.

Hope this is of some help.

Russ

any chance of a soundclip??

chris

woooooooops looks like we were posting together mate...........a double wammy.........thats killed this thread dead then .

Russ

any chance of a soundclip??

chris

Oh no not again .

Russ

Thanks alot Dave and Russ much appreciated.

Tommy & the Derby's - Don't Play The Role - Swing

I think this is one of the best finds in ages and now JM has come up with a vg+ copy on his auction although there's a fair bit of noise on it. However its not the grading I want to know about we can all decide that ourselves, its how rare is this i've never seen a copy and i've been collecting 25 yrs although ive known the tune only about a year. Is this a holy grail tune or just sitting dorment in peoples collections.

Any views and opinions appreciated.

Best Darren

If it makes you feel better it's the first copy I've ever seen, also.

I believe the few known copies are "cream-crackered" the copy we have the first few turns has an occassional small "swoosh" due to a 60s "coca-cola" spillage on a tiny area. I've spent hours & hours on the Lorocraft machine cleaning it and improved the "flaw" 100%. It actually gets less and less every time I play it. As you say this is the very best find in ages & ages.

I just adore the record.. the tiny flaw on the first 10 secondas or so, i can certainly put up with.

Butch has been spinning this for years, Carl Fortnum also. Wasn't until Andy Dyson turned a copy up that it gained much wider recognition.

Quite a few have been in contact with guy who did backing/produced etc, one or two long ago

Probably half a dozen known copies now.

The record is simply awesome, in my top two all time!!!!

Edited May 14, 200817 yr by chalky

Butch has been spinning this for years, Carl Fortnum also. Wasn't until Andy Dyson turned a copy up that it gained much wider recognition.

Quite a few have been in contact with guy who did backing/produced etc, one or two long ago

Probably half a dozen known copies now.

The record is simply awesome, in my top two all time!!!!

Agreed .

Russ

If it makes you feel better it's the first copy I've ever seen, also.

I believe the few known copies are "cream-crackered" the copy we have the first few turns has an occassional small "swoosh" due to a 60s "coca-cola" spillage on a tiny area. I've spent hours & hours on the Lorocraft machine cleaning it and improved the "flaw" 100%. It actually gets less and less every time I play it. As you say this is the very best find in ages & ages.

I just adore the record.. the tiny flaw on the first 10 secondas or so, i can certainly put up with.

Thanks John and Chalky for the additional info

Best Darren

I am scared,

What's this Lorocraft machine cleaning and can you use it on mahogany wood flooring.

I am scared,

What's this Lorocraft machine cleaning and can you use it on mahogany wood flooring.

It's one of those machines, that no man can do without, it's washes, cleans and sucks all at the same time!

It's one of those machines, that no man can do without, it's washes, cleans and sucks all at the same time!

I used to know her.....she still about lol

It's one of those machines, that no man can do without, it's washes, cleans and sucks all at the same time!

nothing sucks like an eletrolux......bugger the record, how much do you want for the machine

Laura or Loro Croft, sure it just for records has no other use what so ever .

Edited May 15, 200817 yr by Prophonics 2029

as to the question of rarity on this item......tim brown paid £4000 for it ....what i am more astonished about is that nobody has mentioned the fabulous flip side "handy andy" almost as good as the top side ...JM has not even put a sound file of this side on his auction site.....what isn't in doubt is that this is one the finest northern records of all time .....if the parliaments/cabell offering went for £2600 on JM's this should top it on rarity alone...

as to the question of rarity on this item......tim brown paid £4000 for it ....what i am more astonished about is that nobody has mentioned the fabulous flip side "handy andy" almost as good as the top side ...JM has not even put a sound file of this side on his auction site.....what isn't in doubt is that this is one the finest northern records of all time .....if the parliaments/cabell offering went for £2600 on JM's this should top it on rarity alone...

I heard Butch play a tune at the 100 club a while back, and it sounded exactly like this. ie voices, instumentation, production etc. and I wondered at the time if it could be the flip. Sounded really good. Anyone got a soundfile?

Phil.

I heard Butch play a tune at the 100 club a while back, and it sounded exactly like this. ie voices, instumentation, production etc. and I wondered at the time if it could be the flip. Sounded really good. Anyone got a soundfile?

Phil.

if it sounded exactly like Ordinary Girl it's probably because it was. The flip is nothing like the top side and although good is probably not good enough to play out, it's certainly not as good as the top side, not in the same league IMHO.

Edited May 18, 200817 yr by chalky

as to the question of rarity on this item......tim brown paid £4000 for it ....what i am more astonished about is that nobody has mentioned the fabulous flip side "handy andy" almost as good as the top side ...JM has not even put a sound file of this side on his auction site.....what isn't in doubt is that this is one the finest northern records of all time .....if the parliaments/cabell offering went for £2600 on JM's this should top it on rarity alone...

Anyone know what this wound up selling for?

Anyone know what this wound up selling for?

about £2600

This is great IMO

This is great IMO

One of the best records I've ever heard!!

about £2600

thanks

This is great IMO

This record reminds me of Ronaldinho...overpriced... To be honest I find it to be nothing special...just goes to show the silly money that is bandied around for rareities...the tune itself...and this is only my opinion...seems decidedly bland

This record reminds me of Ronaldinho...overpriced... To be honest I find it to be nothing special...just goes to show the silly money that is bandied around for rareities...the tune itself...and this is only my opinion...seems decidedly bland

Everyone to thier own & all that, but I suggest you have your ears syringed..................feckin' awesome !!!.........one of the best EVER IMO...........present company excepted, but some people just slag of rare records, whether they are any good or not, smacks of jealousy to me & sour grapes, while ever tunes like this are getting play's & the likes of Butch el al are searching em out I'll be on a dance floor near you...........bland...........give me a break.

Russ

Everyone to thier own & all that, but I suggest you have your ears syringed..................feckin' awesome !!!.........one of the best EVER IMO...........present company excepted, but some people just slag of rare records, whether they are any good or not, smacks of jealousy to me & sour grapes, while ever tunes like this are getting play's & the likes of Butch el al are searching em out I'll be on a dance floor near you...........bland...........give me a break.

Russ

Just not to my taste Russ...not that its bad...and to be honest the rarity thing has never been something that bothers me...a good tune is a good tune...im not going to buy a record thats crap just because there are only a few copies around...that would be ridiculous and if anyone does more fool them...some of the best tracks on the scene are out there and cost peanuts...will certainly never let the green eyed monster appear unless its something that makes me salivate hehe neither am I green between the ears either...just doesnt do it for me

Just not to my taste Russ...not that its bad...and to be honest the rarity thing has never been something that bothers me...a good tune is a good tune...im not going to buy a record thats crap just because there are only a few copies around...that would be ridiculous and if anyone does more fool them...some of the best tracks on the scene are out there and cost peanuts...will certainly never let the green eyed monster appear unless its something that makes me salivate hehe neither am I green between the ears either...just doesnt do it for me

Fair one mate & nicely put .

Russ

I think it's a fantastic tune.....but it aint a dancer.....I think it would have made much more, had it been uptempo....I've seen it played to an empty dance floor....

Phil.

I think it's a fantastic tune.....but it aint a dancer.....I think it would have made much more, had it been uptempo....I've seen it played to an empty dance floor....

Phil.

Would of packed the floor at a Stafford Anni' .. Just like Soul Brothers Inc did and a few others which Im sure Jocko and Binsey can remember

Edited July 2, 200817 yr by Simon M

I think it's a fantastic tune.....but it aint a dancer.....I think it would have made much more, had it been uptempo....I've seen it played to an empty dance floor....

Phil.

First Yvonne Vernee is mid tempo and then this statement, I suspect from lots of comments on here we are just about heading back to the 70's and Muriel Day and other pop stompers are just around the corner (metaphorically speaking obviously as am young enough to have missed that period out, thankfully)

Sorry Phil but that is just a f*****g unbelievable statement, it just proves to me what some people better qualified than I am have been telling me lately and that is the quality scene is f*****d in the majority. My retirement is confirmed, I suspect the 30 year off brigade have won and all evolution has been lost. It reminds me of Thatcherism "saving" the country.

This sounds great out loud and to me is a proper NS record, if this tempo is no longer acceptable then its truly gone, I suspect the fact its a proper soul record is doing it no favours as well.

I really do give up.

So it's not a "stomper", so what!

To these ears it's got an ideal tempo and one that I would gladly get on the floor to.

Excellent record

First Yvonne Vernee is mid tempo and then this statement, I suspect from lots of comments on here we are just about heading back to the 70's and Muriel Day and other pop stompers are just around the corner (metaphorically speaking obviously as am young enough to have missed that period out, thankfully)

Sorry Phil but that is just a f*****g unbelievable statement, it just proves to me what some people better qualified than I am have been telling me lately and that is the quality scene is f*****d in the majority. My retirement is confirmed, I suspect the 30 year off brigade have won and all evolution has been lost. It reminds me of Thatcherism "saving" the country.

This sounds great out loud and to me is a proper NS record, if this tempo is no longer acceptable then its truly gone, I suspect the fact its a proper soul record is doing it no favours as well.

I really do give up.

Hey don't give up Jocko. There is a bit of a revival in uptempo stormers at the moment, but no way is this not a dancer. It's a good record, and also significant as it's Tommy Tate. We don't all just want endless stomperoonies - you are not alone.

Which part of "it's a fantastic tune" did you not understand?? I was just trying to throw some light on why such a fantastic, and very rare record, would only fetch £2.5k ....and the fact is, it's the tempo.....Butch plays it pitched up...

The people who go out to nighters, want to dance.....just like they always did. The plain truth is, the playing of too many mid tempo and beat balads is what has killed more nighters than anything else....of course they are wonderful soul records, but you have to give the punters what they want....

Phil.

First Yvonne Vernee is mid tempo and then this statement, I suspect from lots of comments on here we are just about heading back to the 70's and Muriel Day and other pop stompers are just around the corner (metaphorically speaking obviously as am young enough to have missed that period out, thankfully)

Sorry Phil but that is just a f*****g unbelievable statement, it just proves to me what some people better qualified than I am have been telling me lately and that is the quality scene is f*****d in the majority. My retirement is confirmed, I suspect the 30 year off brigade have won and all evolution has been lost. It reminds me of Thatcherism "saving" the country.

This sounds great out loud and to me is a proper NS record, if this tempo is no longer acceptable then its truly gone, I suspect the fact its a proper soul record is doing it no favours as well.

I really do give up.

Get off your high horse Jocko...no ones having a pop here haha...peoples taste differ...I for one have such an eclectic collection it beggars belief...Im just as comfortable listening to Eugene McDaniels as I am Amp Fiddler(New Soul) ...yeah I dont like it today...but ill probably listen to it tomorrow and think its the dogs shit...as for Yvonne...Im from another generation...anything under 120 and over 80 bpm is mid tempo hahaha

I think it's a truly awseome record. Although not a stomper proper Northern Soul

Rare as rocking horse s**t !

One of those hairs on the back of the neck records that when you first hear them it just reaffirms why you got into NS in the first place.

When I asked Shifty about it he told me that Butch played it as a cover up. He eventually found out what it was, got one and played it as a cover up himself. He did tell me what he covered it up as but, needless to say, I can't remember

Edited July 2, 200817 yr by Stubbsy

Which part of "it's a fantastic tune" did you not understand?? I was just trying to throw some light on why such a fantastic, and very rare record, would only fetch £2.5k ....and the fact is, it's the tempo.....Butch plays it pitched up...

The people who go out to nighters, want to dance.....just like they always did. The plain truth is, the playing of too many mid tempo and beat balads is what has killed more nighters than anything else....of course they are wonderful soul records, but you have to give the punters what they want....

Phil.

Yes they always did want to dance and in my 20 odd years of going they wanted to dance to things like this. I repeat a proper NS record with atmosphere and everything, it has that something very few records have in my opinion and it is a perfect all nighter record.

WTF you include this with mid tempo and beat ballads I just dont get, that is another argument surely, by including this in this bracket is just underestimating your audience, the epitome of dumbing down in my opinion.

As for all these beat ballads etc, I assume thats a dig at the 80's/90's, and I repeat for the 90th time on here, if you had been there, rather than on these mystical breaks I assume, you would have realised that they didnt get played all night its just a f*****g myth, perpetuated by those absent.

I dont think anyone wants slow stuff all night, think it has been debated well on here that you need to keep a pace up particularly for a nighter at certain times, but to include records of this pace and quality says more about what you think of the quality of the people around the dancefloor than it does about the record,

Ever wondered why so many of the taste makers and players of the 80's/90's cant be assed anymore?

Get off your high horse Jocko...no ones having a pop here haha...peoples taste differ...I for one have such an eclectic collection it beggars belief...Im just as comfortable listening to Eugene McDaniels as I am Amp Fiddler(New Soul) ...yeah I dont like it today...but ill probably listen to it tomorrow and think its the dogs shit...as for Yvonne...Im from another generation...anything under 120 and over 80 bpm is mid tempo hahaha

Again I repeat if sticking up for some quality control means being on my high horse then pass me the riding crop.

And WTF has eclectic taste got to do with definition of a good Northern record, I think you assume too much, I am as likely to be listening to Amp Fiddler today

as I am to Northern, probably more likely to be honest as I buy almost any soul related music other than Northern these days. I also listen to lots of house currently, all of which is completely irrelevant to my point, Yvonne Vernee is not a mid-tempo NS record. Another that has that extra undefinable something that very few NS records have.

I give up part 2.

Which part of "it's a fantastic tune" did you not understand?? I was just trying to throw some light on why such a fantastic, and very rare record, would only fetch £2.5k ....and the fact is, it's the tempo.....Butch plays it pitched up...

The people who go out to nighters, want to dance.....just like they always did. The plain truth is, the playing of too many mid tempo and beat balads is what has killed more nighters than anything else....of course they are wonderful soul records, but you have to give the punters what they want....

Phil.

Butch rarely plays it!!! And when he has it's not pitched up that much if at all, barely noticable.

I want to go out to all-nighters and I danced to this saturday night. Too many uptempo records can have a detrimental effect too, especially when they aren't good enough to be played or in the same class as Tommy & Derbys.

This record reminds me of Ronaldinho...overpriced... To be honest I find it to be nothing special...just goes to show the silly money that is bandied around for rareities...the tune itself...and this is only my opinion...seems decidedly bland

I've seen some stupid comments on Soul Source over the years but you've made two of the best here I know everyone has different taste etc but to say it's overpriced is way wide of the mark, especially when compared to some of the records that fetch a similar amount, and to say Tommy Tate is bland is beyond belief

Edited July 2, 200817 yr by chalky

Again I repeat if sticking up for some quality control means being on my high horse then pass me the riding crop.

And WTF has eclectic taste got to do with definition of a good Northern record, I think you assume too much, I am as likely to be listening to Amp Fiddler today

as I am to Northern, probably more likely to be honest as I buy almost any soul related music other than Northern these days. I also listen to lots of house currently, all of which is completely irrelevant to my point, Yvonne Vernee is not a mid-tempo NS record. Another that has that extra undefinable something that very few NS records have.

I give up part 2.

Again im not having a pop and you're on the defensive...dont mind me...im just anally retentive and tend to ramble...I'm also a member of a not uncommon group on here...known as the 'You can't tell me f*** all about music that I don't already know' club, so please excuse me...and don't give up...if you're into Amp Fiddler as well as the oldies...there's hope for you yet

I've seen some stupid comments on Soul Source over the years but you've made two of the best here I know everyone has different taste etc but to say it's overpriced is way wide of the mark, especially when compared to some of the records that fetch a similar amount, and to say Tommy Tate is bland is beyond belief

Chalky you're not gonna make me like a record no matter how you decide to belittle me...so your point is mute...please trynot to take me for some wet behind the ears kid who doesn't know what they are talking about...I have a collection that would fill your house of incredible records...just because I dont particularly like this track doesn't make me clueless...im not some sheep that will say I like something just to please the record spotters...im sorry...thats just not me...I dont like the track...fucking deal with it

Chalky you're not gonna make me like a record no matter how you decide to belittle me...so your point is mute...please trynot to take me for some wet behind the ears kid who doesn't know what they are talking about...I have a collection that would fill your house of incredible records...just because I dont particularly like this track doesn't make me clueless...im not some sheep that will say I like something just to please the record spotters...im sorry...thats just not me...I dont like the track...fucking deal with it

who's asking you to like the record? it's your comments about being overpriced and bland that are puzzling, it's far from either, even if you don't like it. if your not wet behind the ears then you know full well that £2600 for a record that numbers less than 10 known copies is pretty reasonable in anyones book. And I ain't belittling you either.

If you think Tommy & Derbys is bland then I doubt very much your collection will be full of incredible records to these cloth ears

who's asking you to like the record? it's your comments about being overpriced and bland that are puzzling, it's far from either, even if you don't like it. if your not wet behind the ears then you know full well that £2600 for a record that numbers less than 10 known copies is pretty reasonable in anyones book. And I ain't belittling you either.

If you think Tommy & Derbys is bland then I doubt very much your collection will be full of incredible records to these cloth ears

Of course people are gonna pay big money for it...im fully aware of the market...but back to the point I originally made which was I never understand how it can ever be justified...if the record is a one off guaranteed monster id gladly part with big money...but just because there is less than ten in existance doesnt mean it's a must have...ive never priced up my collection because I have no desire to sell it...but im sure I have some very expensive records after numurous trips stateside...but I bought them on merit...not on anything else...could argue the toss till we are both blue in the face...and I know most disagree with me on this one...but im never one to shy away from my opinions...if you'd fork out nearly 3k on an average record then go for your life...ill just buy 300 records at 30 quid a pop which ill love and ill be happy as larry

Ive heard a 1000 better, and the backing vocals are not of the highest quality, and as someone pointed out it isn't much of a dancer either. Rare record yes, soulful yes, my cup of tea no.

Ive heard a 1000 better, and the backing vocals are not of the highest quality, and as someone pointed out it isn't much of a dancer either. Rare record yes, soulful yes, my cup of tea no.

You tell em Tim...the whole worlds gone mad

Beeker73: you can't count as well as being tone-deaf.

Beeker73: you can't count as well as being tone-deaf.

Cheap shot but ok I was on a roll...100 records...same outcome...same bland record...irrelevant

Beeker73: you can't count as well as being tone-deaf.

Gareth you need to give me lessons in being so succinct.

Ok,

while you're "on a roll" why not give us a list of ten records which are as underexposed as Tommy & The Derbys that you would like to see on allnighter playlists.

It's very easy to be negative about records which are currently in vogue; maybe you can redress that with a more positive posting. You seem bullish about your own collection so I'd be interested to see a list of the kind of sounds you'd rather hear out at the moment.

seems a great 60's record to me...even had me bidding on brownies auction!