Good morning,

i am looking for a bit of background on the servicemen,

I notice that their release on Chartmaker 480 Connie / Sweet Magic is also

shown as the Magicians on Chartmaker 408 Connie / Sweet Magic.

similarly what was the release sequence between their wind hit 100 release I need a helping hand / Are You Angry

and their later Patheway release of I need a helping hand / My terms (Turn?)

Regards Harry (Soulster22)

Edited July 15, 200816 yr by soulster22

never came out as the Magicians did it?

never came out as the Magicians did it?

its listed on Manships as the Magicians on Chartmaker 408 so i'm a bit confused. i know that the Wind hit release had James Mitchell on lead vocals and that the Chartmaker release had a different lead but that's it.

thanks for the reply CHALKY.

REGARDS H

It's a boot...

Changed artist name.

It's a boot...

Changed artist name.

Thanks for the info Pikeys,

Regards Harryy (Soulster22)

I was in touch with Hadley Murrell a little while back. He couldn't remember the names of the group apart from James Mitchell, all now dead apparently. He told me at the time that there will be a cd out in the near future with 4 or 5 unissued tracks from the servicemen. The Servicemen were from Phoenix. Magicians West Coast aren't they.

The info I got from Hadley Murrell is in a previous topic, I can't find it so maybe one of the mods can?

I was in touch with Hadley Murrell a little while back. He couldn't remember the names of the group apart from James Mitchell, all now dead apparently. He told me at the time that there will be a cd out in the near future with 4 or 5 unissued tracks from the servicemen. The Servicemen were from Phoenix. Magicians West Coast aren't they.

The info I got from Hadley Murrell is in a previous topic, I can't find it so maybe one of the mods can?

Ok Chalky, on the subject of the Servicemen are there any better double siders than the Wind Hit and Chartmaker releases. Absolute quality.

If there are any more details about the CD release drop me a line as this group more than any other in my opinion delivered top quality music every time.I believe that they were all serving Airmen hence the name.

Regards Harry (Soulster22)

Ok Chalky, on the subject of the Servicemen are there any better double siders than the Wind Hit and Chartmaker releases. Absolute quality.

If there are any more details about the CD release drop me a line as this group more than any other in my opinion delivered top quality music every time.I believe that they were all serving Airmen hence the name.

Regards Harry (Soulster22)

Yes they were all serving in the same airbase, forget which one as I've lost the e-mail when PC went t*ts up while back

there is already a cd out of Hadley's productions https://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/...ley+Murrell.htm

I'll dig it out as for some reason seem to remember more tracks on it than is listed there, probably wrong mind

Yes they were all serving in the same airbase, forget which one as I've lost the e-mail when PC went t*ts up while back

there is already a cd out of Hadley's productions https://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/...ley+Murrell.htm

I'll dig it out as for some reason seem to remember more tracks on it than is listed there, probably wrong mind

I think there's a ballad version of Need A Helping Hand on Hadley Murrell's CD. (Unless I've heard it somewhere before - I tend to buy CDs, listen to 'em once and then stash 'em ). There's also some question as to whether there were four or five members of the group. I've seen pictures of four and five but I believe it was the same picture but cropped. Still not been verified. Anyone?

Dave Moore said:

I think there's a ballad version of Need A Helping Hand on Hadley Murrell's CD. (Unless I've heard it somewhere before - I tend to buy CDs, listen to 'em once and then stash 'em ). There's also some question as to whether there were four or five members of the group. I've seen pictures of four and five but I believe it was the same picture but cropped. Still not been verified. Anyone?

Hadley told me 4 members, all from Luke Airforce base. Found the topic

does anyone have the photo they can let me have a jpeg (decent one) of please?

Hadley told me 4 members, all from Luke Airforce base. Found the topic HERE

does anyone have the photo they can let me have a jpeg (decent one) of please?

Chalky,

Just checked my notes and you're right. The other pic is of three members and it's the same pic that shows four of them but has been cropped. The pic of three is in Issue #2 of There's That Beat! I've posted it below. I think the pic of four that this is cropped from is in the liner notes of Hadleys CD actually which I appear to have given away.

I think there's a ballad version of Need A Helping Hand on Hadley Murrell's CD. (Unless I've heard it somewhere before - I tend to buy CDs, listen to 'em once and then stash 'em ). There's also some question as to whether there were four or five members of the group. I've seen pictures of four and five but I believe it was the same picture but cropped. Still not been verified. Anyone?

...and a ballad version of 'Are You Angry' by Thee Midniters.

Also, don't forget the Servicemen's release on Grapevine a few years back.

Also, don't forget the Servicemen's release on Grapevine a few years back.

I'll Stop Loving You, fabulous soul music. It's also on the cd I mentioned.

...and a ballad version of 'Are You Angry' by Thee Midniters.

Also, don't forget the Servicemen's release on Grapevine a few years back.

is the midnighters song actually the same song as the servicemen or just similar? I think the midnghters is a cover of a doowop record by the sonics on chess (it has a different title, I'm forgetting what it is) by the way. So if it is the same song, it's probably not the servicemen covering thee midnighters but actually them covering the same doowop record.

is the midnighters song actually the same song as the servicemen or just similar? I think the midnghters is a cover of a doowop record by the sonics on chess (it has a different title, I'm forgetting what it is) by the way. So if it is the same song, it's probably not the servicemen covering thee midnighters but actually them covering the same doowop record.

Hi Bob,

I just tried playing them side by side. Because Thee Midniters version is so slow, plus they repeat lines, it's tricky to say if they are exactly the same. But, I think on T.M. version they miss out a few words, otherwise, it's the same lyrics.

Interesting thing, the Servicemen credit (H.Murrell - J.Mitchell). Then on one copy I have of Thee Midniters it credits (Garcia - Espinoza) & on another label design it credits (Thee Midniters).

Regards

pottsy

Edited July 17, 200816 yr by pottsy

its listed on Manships as the Magicians on Chartmaker 408 so i'm a bit confused. i know that the Wind hit release had James Mitchell on lead vocals and that the Chartmaker release had a different lead but that's it.

thanks for the reply CHALKY.

REGARDS H

Hello Harry,

Here's a scan of The Magicians boot, & one of the original Servicemen.

Also, "I need a helping hand" got booted on the plain 'orange' label, so beware. I dont have one at the moment so can't post up a scan.

Cheers

pottsy

Hi Bob,

I just tried playing them side by side. Because Thee Midniters version is so slow, plus they repeat lines, it's tricky to say if they are exactly the same. But, I think on T.M. version they miss out a few words, otherwise, it's the same lyrics.

Interesting thing, the Servicemen credit (H.Murrell - J.Mitchell). Then on one copy I have of Thee Midniters it credits (Garcia - Espinoza) & on another label design it credits (Thee Midniters).

Regards

pottsy

I will dig out the sonics record I'm thinking of and post audio when I get home

Now we can see where they got the idea for the song from Bob ! Moved a few words around & added "Are you Angry".

I wonder if the Servicemen heard the Sonics or Thee Midniters to give them the idea? Suppose we'll never know.

THICKO requires conformation:

ive had a copy of both servicemen and magicians for at least 35 years-=-still im not convinced by the boot theory-vinyl is the same along withn matrix--can someone please tell me the origin of the boot? John Manship out there somewhere to put me straight please! i was heavy involved in selecta disc at the time and the magicians never came there as a off the shelf boot- there was some story going round as to name similarities with the Villa lot and hence re marketed-i asked souson he didnt know. besides its a bit of an ambitious boot (dont get m,e wrong some were absolute madness as well as ambitious) sweet magic got very few plays-connie had to wait for about 15 years to be "discovered"- both really lagged second behind I need a HELPING HAND at the time for sheer "northern "dance- Are you angry was first played by martin soul sam barnfarther at the notts palias all dayer covered as THE MIRWOOD MEN ??? that must have been 79/80. i always thought that another issue to plug helping hand. Must be a reissue, the handfull of copies ive seen were brand new, with the bonus that "my turn" doesnt appear and grace the labels wind hit change. A for B side reversal. Who has a copy with the labels correct-put your hands up please.i'd really like to know how many are out there with the original design patheway label are correctly labelled. again the all orange release i still dont think a boot leg againm that didnt arrive in any quantatity for 4/5 years after those days, maybe 75/76. at least not the first to be touted around, just a quick press to account for the label misstakes rather badly printed lines across that had smudged or run on quite a few copies- sousons press was differnt ink wise and colour, his didnt seem as strong orange as the pasty later jobs----Which brings me on to a point regarding tobi bowe--i used to have a label reverse copy of that!!!!! sold it someone to get a"right" one, but thats the only one i saw of that anyone got one of those, or in fact any other misstake on the patheway logo (b. Door KEN you still have one of my patheway copies (labels reversed)remember mate-LOL--could be worse mate i could have wanted paying- have fun back door ken-see you next week 100 eh

Edited August 12, 201113 yr by enchantedrythm

was sweet magic not covered up as the magicians in 76? and the boot surfacing straight after. also the servicemen has a stamp in the runout. looks like `H` but could be `11` .....my eyes are failing and i dont wear glasses the magicians vinyl looks different and theres no stamp also the label writing is different colour

dave

the orange copies of i need a helping hand are on styrene with good sound quality, a delta stamp and labels right way round. there are orange boots on vinyl with crap sound quality and a fake scratched delta mark. the cartoon pathway of INAHH are usually reversed label

dave

Edited August 12, 201113 yr by dave pinch

and also the dodgy font on the magicians sweet magic

a lot of the plain orange originals have "helping hand" label on both sides

the boots trev or the styrene orig's

a lot of the plain orange originals have "helping hand" label on both sides

you know sumthin trev i never noticed..only owned the one and that was perfect

the boots trev or the styrene orig's

styrene originals

was sweet magic not covered up as the magicians in 76? and the boot surfacing straight after. also the servicemen has a stamp in the runout. looks like `H` but could be `11` .....my eyes are failing and i dont wear glasses the magicians vinyl looks different and theres no stamp also the label writing is different colour

dave

As far as i know this is the case Dave, me n ron pedley had a right argument with a kid in a record bar, who was trying to sell a magicians as an original

THICKO requires conformation:

ive had a copy of both servicemen and magicians for at least 35 years-=-still im not convinced by the boot theory-vinyl is the same along withn matrix--can someone please tell me the origin of the boot? John Manship out there somewhere to put me straight please! i was heavy involved in selecta disc at the time and the magicians never came there as a off the shelf boot- there was some story going round as to name similarities with the Villa lot and hence re marketed-i asked souson he didnt know. besides its a bit of an ambitious boot (dont get m,e wrong some were absolute madness as well as ambitious) sweet magic got very few plays-connie had to wait for about 15 years to be "discovered"- both really lagged second behind I need a HELPING HAND at the time for sheer "northern "dance- Are you angry was first played by martin soul sam barnfarther at the notts palias all dayer covered as THE MIRWOOD MEN ??? that must have been 79/80. i always thought that another issue to plug helping hand. Must be a reissue, the handfull of copies ive seen were brand new, with the bonus that "my turn" doesnt appear and grace the labels wind hit change. A for B side reversal. Who has a copy with the labels correct-put your hands up please.i'd really like to know how many are out there with the original design patheway label are correctly labelled. again the all orange release i still dont think a boot leg againm that didnt arrive in any quantatity for 4/5 years after those days, maybe 75/76. at least not the first to be touted around, just a quick press to account for the label misstakes rather badly printed lines across that had smudged or run on quite a few copies- sousons press was differnt ink wise and colour, his didnt seem as strong orange as the pasty later jobs----Which brings me on to a point regarding tobi bowe--i used to have a label reverse copy of that!!!!! sold it someone to get a"right" one, but thats the only one i saw of that anyone got one of those, or in fact any other misstake on the patheway logo (b. Door KEN you still have one of my patheway copies (labels reversed)remember mate-LOL--could be worse mate i could have wanted paying- have fun back door ken-see you next week 100 eh

Tony Smith as it now fella,yeh see you there.

Like Chalky I spoke to Hadley several time on this subject. Information on the group seems to be fairly patchy, but here is a stab at it, with a bit of guess work thrown in.

They formed when they met at a U.S. base in L.A., but the guys could have been from anywhere in the U.S. (Don't know the name of the base). While they were here they recorded the tracks that came out on Chartmaker. They then got posted to Luke AFB, where they met DJ/impresario Hadley Merrell, who took them into the studio and recorded 'I need a helping hand' and 'My Turn'. Hadley then took this to a DJ friend on the west coast who released it on Pathway. Hadley thought that a L.A. release would have more of a chance of sucess, but this was not the case. So a year later he re-released 'I need a helping hand with 'Are you angry' on his own Wind Hit label. He believes the Pathway release was pressed up at at least 1000 copies, his Wind Hit lease was pressed at 500.

This order of release is different to many accounts on the web, which put the Pathway release as first, then Chartmaker and Finally Wind Hit. But as Hadley is the only source now availble, this is my belief. Also as the were under contract to Hadley it would seem strange to go off to L.A. in the middle and cut with someone else.

The Only Member Know was James Mitchell, who seems to have been group leader and spokesman. They went out and did a few gigs in and around Phoenix, but never really toured, as getting time away from the base would have been difficult. When thier time in the Air Force ended and having no sucess todate, they split and went their own ways. Most likely all returning to their home towns, it is possible that some of them carried on in the business with other hometown groups and may even have been members of groups we know well, but as their names stay a mystery, so does what happened next.

Edited August 12, 201113 yr by Dave Thorley

PS

The ballad versions, metioned earlier in the thread, are the vocal recordings from the original two track session, released by Hadley on his CD as acapella versions, and so are not really ballads.

They must have been in the same service unit together, as they stayed together when they got posted to Luke AFB, if they had been in different units, they could have been split up after basic training at the L.A. base.

Edited August 12, 201113 yr by Dave Thorley

have a copy of ..roy + dew drops "i'm gonna hurt you" wind hit 100 credited to e.campbell + h.murrell flipside "the one who's hurtin' (is you)" uncredited

so the lead singer's name is roy.....and e.campbell one of the line up???

also written on label "thanks hadley ...steve cooper" is he anybody to do with the group??? as he has also written "the servicemen" on flipside under roy + dewdrops and "phoenix az" under wind hit

cheers

franc

Edited August 12, 201113 yr by cobbles

As far as i know this is the case Dave, me n ron pedley had a right argument with a kid in a record bar, who was trying to sell a magicians as an original

It is correct, Russ was playing it covered up as The Magicians, it did very little and he only played it in his first spot of the night, it lasted maybe 6 weeks and then "The Magicians" came out, that was a very limited boot by the way, hardly ever turns up at all nowadays

styrene originals

still got your old copy Trev

From what I remember Hadley telling me, James Mitchell was the lead singer.

Hadley never sang with the group, there was talk that he did but he categorically told me he didn't.

He also said they are all dead now and that apart from KM he couldn't remember any names. He also told me they met at Luke Airforce Base.

From what I remember Hadley telling me, James Mitchell was the lead singer.

Hadley never sang with the group, there was talk that he did but he categorically told me he didn't.

He also said they are all dead now and that apart from KM he couldn't remember any names. He also told me they met at Luke Airforce Base.

Odd that, he told me they had already recorded the Chartmaker tracks before he met them, in L.A. Mine you listening to other things he told me I think he is a patchy with some info and it was 40 plus years ago.

Odd that, he told me they had already recorded the Chartmaker tracks before he met them, in L.A. Mine you listening to other things he told me I think he is a patchy with some info and it was 40 plus years ago.

To be honest dave I would say what you wrote is nearer the mark. He couldn't remember much when I spoke and it was like you said patchy. I'll have to see if I can find the e-mail and Instant Messenger chats we had as well.

but still the information around the servicemen/magicians is very sketchy-sorry to bore you young soulies but we must dig deeper?

you o.k carl?

Edited August 13, 201113 yr by enchantedrythm

Interesting thread as I have all the boots mentioned, Seems any thread about the Servicemen are very popular as they are one of the best groups on the Northern scene, pity they never cut more tunes.

Pete Smith is right about the Magicians 45, mine cost me £25 and that's a good 15 years ago!!

Edited August 13, 201113 yr by Soul-Slider

but still the information around the servicemen/magicians is very sketchy-sorry to bore you young soulies but we must dig deeper?

you o.k carl?

one fact that is not sketchy with the chartmaker 45 is the servicemen is real and the magicians is a bootleg albeit a rare one

dave

any body know who did it?

Correct , Sam did cover it up as The Mirwood Men , but it was St Ives in the summer of 77.

Can't imagine it was to promote 'Helping Hand' though as nobody at the time had a clue that that was on the other side & even when that became apparent nobody gave a hoot coz 'Helping Hand' was already an oldie(boot) from 75 readily avalible on the record bar for pennies...............Or are you talking about its original release?

SORRY This was a reply to enchantedrythem but I got fat fingers again !

Edited August 13, 201113 yr by martyn

think enchanted rhythm fella is on about the chartmaker release not patheway martyn

dave

Edited August 14, 201113 yr by dave pinch

yes its the chartmaker so called boot i want to know about

It is correct, Russ was playing it covered up as The Magicians, it did very little and he only played it in his first spot of the night, it lasted maybe 6 weeks and then "The Magicians" came out, that was a very limited boot by the way, hardly ever turns up at all nowadays

russ played it as the magicians because his copy was the magicans, was that a boot promotion? i remember comparing my sevicemen with his-

who booted it?

someone must know-it deff was not selecta disc, souson though does seem favourite

have a copy of ..roy + dew drops "i'm gonna hurt you" wind hit 100 credited to e.campbell + h.murrell flipside "the one who's hurtin' (is you)" uncredited

so the lead singer's name is roy.....and e.campbell one of the line up???

also written on label "thanks hadley ...steve cooper" is he anybody to do with the group??? as he has also written "the servicemen" on flipside under roy + dewdrops and "phoenix az" under wind hit

cheers

franc

any chance of a scan / soundclip

yes its the chartmaker so called boot i want to know about

Stick - Wrong End

chartmaker is/must be before patheway, whick both preceed wind hit. proof-ive got none. other releases on chartmaker might proove this down to their early content-sweet magic and connie are typical of those discs that proceed doo wop influences. i need a helping hand and i can feel him slipping away both sound a little later and more in line with storming motown hits of the time, i still feel wind hit as later, are you angry prob cut at the same time but not released initialy

please someone tell me im wrong and tell me who bootlegged chartmaker magicians

someone out their must know else i'll sell my duplicate magicians for a knockdown £1000, instead of the 50 quid it could fetch on auction sites

Ady ?? kev R ??? tim brown??? john manship???

calling all

Stick - Wrong End

im always getting that stick stuck in my throat martyn

These records can probably be dated by the dead wax codes. The Wind Hit 45 looks like a Wakefield press and should have 'sjw' or a W mark along with a 4 (or 5 digit if it's from 1968 or later) number. If someone can give me the number I can tell you the month. I have the other 45s in my collection at home (originals, not the Magicians boot) which I will check out later.

any chance of a scan / soundclip

These records can probably be dated by the dead wax codes. The Wind Hit 45 looks like a Wakefield press and should have 'sjw' or a W mark along with a 4 (or 5 digit if it's from 1968 or later) number. If someone can give me the number I can tell you the month. I have the other 45s in my collection at home (originals, not the Magicians boot) which I will check out later.

roy + dewdrops sjw 9716