Okay folks,

Don't know if this has been done before.

Just been listening to The Trips There's that mountain & it's quite obviously the same track/arrangement as Richard Temple's That Beatin' Rhythm.

Must be loads of others like this given the way the studios were set up.

Anymore anyone?

p.s., did i imagine it, or did someone one tell me Richard Temple was in fact one Willie Hutch no less?.........or did I dream it?

An infamous example-The Contours-Do The See-Saw (Motown unreleased 1963)

                                         Tom & Jerrio- Boogaloo (Jerry O/ABC Paramount 1965)

It's a mystery how Chicago DJ Jerry Murray got his hands on an unreleased Motown backing track but he was sued by Berry Gordy for his pains and made no money from the record,which was a big hit(issued here  in the UK on HMV) 

I enjoy both of them -a cracking tune!

Great thread I have a few faves in this field being an arranger for a successful cabaret band myself.

I'll kick off with this, same arrangement, same song, same artist. Speeded up to both increase tempo and lift the key of the track/vocal. Ty Karim. 

I'm sure we all know about Ty Karim and the Larry Atkins backing track, so I'll go with this.

 

Not the same backing track but these two 

sound supiciously alike...

 

Edited June 4, 20186 yr by the yank

 

So do these two....

 

Give this one some time to get started...

 

Don't think these were mentioned yet(?)

Rose Battiste- "I Miss My Baby"

Doni Burdick- "Bari Track"

and this....

 

 

plus this one

Pied Piper Players - The Bari Sax

 

On 20/07/2011 at 02:48, Guest closed said:

If you Love Me - Monique (Maurci)

Challenge My Love - Tobi Lark (Topper)

 

Never Let me Go - Monique (Maurci)

Nothing In This World - Dottie & Millie (Topper)

 

Obviously something was happeniong between those two labels but Monique wins every time for me!

Yes.  But the owner who produced the original recording session, Dave Hamilton, said he knew nothing about Maurci, and didn't lease the tracks to anyone.  Maurci was owned by Gene Chandler and Symtec Simmons.  There's no evidence of any Detroit names on Maurci.  All the rest of their releases recordings (Five Jades, etc., and even the other Monique cuts) sound like Chicago.  So no way to find the connection there.  

22 hours ago, the yank said:

Give this one some time to get started...

 

That's only one musical phrase repeated.  No more than plagiarism than in thousands of songs.  Not like the entire background verbatim.

ok.

22 hours ago, the yank said:

 

Kent Harris worked some with Hal Davis and Marc Gordon at times, during the same time they were operating Jobete Music's L.A. Office.  I don't know for sure if he wrote any songs that were bought by Jobete.  But, he certainly had access to hearing the tracks.  Atkins' cut is a different recording, using different musicians, likely recorded in a different studio.  So, Harris may have just remembered the riffs and changes, and written this similar song.  It's definitely not direct use of the same tracks.

On 04/06/2018 at 13:37, RC166 said:

Clay Hammond - Dance Little Girl

Mack Starr - Down By The Waterhole 

 

 

Both were L.A. releases, done by people who had worked together in The Keymen group of labels.  Julian Brown wrote both, and Fred Smith produced both.  So, clearly, Smith just used his own track on 2 different releases, by different artist, with different lyrics.

On 04/06/2018 at 12:42, Driveller said:

Few more I've remembered:

Tommy Navarro - Club Of Broken Hearts (De Jac)

Richie Mandell - You Got Me (20th Century)

 

Epsilons - Mad At The World (Shrine)

Epsilons - It's All Right (HEM)

 

Stewart Ames - King For A Day (J&W)

Jock Mitchell - Nomad Woman (Golden Hit)

 

Mello Souls - We Can Make It (Mello)

Lakisha Washington - Just My Dreams (Solid Sound)

 

OK, hands up, that last one's not real - found it for 49 cents in a junk shop while I was sleeping last night, then I woke up and it wasn't in my box any more...

Still, the other ones are real.  Never mind, a lad can dream!

 

Detroit bg tracks bounced around that city quite a bit during the 1960s.  Stewart Ames' J&W cut was first, and likely was originally recorded with Ed Wingate's money.  Jock Mitchell worked with Harry Balk at Impact Records when Balk's lmpact/Inferno were distributed by Wingate's Golden World.  So, Mitchell, like Duke Browner, John Rhys, and others of Balk's crew, likely had access to tapes at Golden World.  Maybe he took that to Golden Hit? - Or told his new boss there, that he liked that track, and wanted to sing to it, and Golden Hit's owner leased the instrumental from Wingate for a modest fee?

 The story goes that Kell was unhappy with the lack of promotion of his 45 at Loma and stropped off with the master of “Can’t outsmart a woman”. It seems likely that after taking it to Highland and recording a new vocal arrangement over the top of the backing track, Loma insisted on the return of the master and the destruction of “Law against a heartbreaker” at the same time.

On 20/07/2011 at 07:22, kim said:

oc tolbert you got me turned around

toby lark sweep it out of the shed

little ann sweep it out of the shed

kim

No surprise here, Dave Hamilton using his own bg tracks on 2 of his own productions of 2 of his own artists.

On 17/07/2011 at 12:55, KevH said:

 

 

 

Who discovered that Ian? ...

 

 

Dells - Its not unusal

Marvin Gaye - its not unusal

Tom Jones - you've guessed....

Are you saying that Motown used VJ's original backing tracks, or that VJ. used Motown's?  Which one was recorded first?

14 minutes ago, RobbK said:

Both were L.A. releases, done by people who had worked together in The Keymen group of labels.  Julian Brown wrote both, and Fred Smith produced both.  So, clearly, Smith just used his own track on 2 different releases, by different artist, with different lyrics.

Thank you for the info,

a pic of my copies

On 17/07/2011 at 11:37, constellation161 said:

Some good in everything bad / The one alone Fabulous Apollos

Frank Brown later, using one of his earlier tracks on his same group, with a better song.

On 18/07/2011 at 04:20, Paul r said:

Jonny Mae Mathews "Lonely You'll Be"

Platters "Going Back To Detroit"

+ maybe another.

 

Paul

This one is interesting.  I wonder who the connection is.  Popcorn Wylie worked on "Going Back To Detroit", and knew Jonny Mae Mathews from the beginning.  He recorded for her on her Northern Records in 1960.  Maybe she leased it from him for a token amount.

On 21/07/2011 at 01:13, ady croasdell said:

 

Well thought out Robb, I would just add that it is very doubtful that Dave knew anything about it as the writer credits have been changed and Dave knew nothing of them when Gilly & Tats asked him. Maybe Dave Thorley's interview with McKinley which is temporarily inaccessible, mentions it. If only Jerry Long was on the credits, then we'd know what happened! I'll ask Darrell Goolsby again and see if he has any ideas.

 

Ady

Hi Ady,

Actually, I must have had a senile moment when I "remembered" wrongly that the M. Jackson on the Maurci label was Mckinley Jackson.  It was Maurice Jackson of Chicago.  So, there is NO Detroit connection to trace from Maurci to Dave Hamilton, at least not from the Maurci label credits.  We'd have to talk to someone who worked with Gene Chandler or Symtec Simmons to find out if they had any connections to Detroit people.

On 20/07/2011 at 23:23, Jaco said:

Rodd Keith - "Gloria"

 

Rodd Keith - "Like the Lord said"

 

Can't think of another example of the same backing track for a different song by the same artist.

Kim Weston - "Do Like I do" and "I'll Never See My Love Again"

Fabulous Apollos - "The One Alone" and "Everything Bad....."

Jimmy Ruffin - "In The Neighborhood"  and "On The Avenue"

Just to name a couple.  There were many done at Motown, but also a lot by other, smaller Detroit Soul labels, as well.  Lot's of Chicago and L.A. labels did that, too.

1 hour ago, RobbK said:

Kent Harris worked some with Hal Davis and Marc Gordon at times, during the same time they were operating Jobete Music's L.A. Office.  I don't know for sure if he wrote any songs that were bought by Jobete.  But, he certainly had access to hearing the tracks.  Atkins' cut is a different recording, using different musicians, likely recorded in a different studio.  So, Harris may have just remembered the riffs and changes, and written this similar song.  It's definitely not direct use of the same tracks.

I guess you didn't read my original comment which said "Not the same backing track but these two sound suspiciously alike..." ?

On 20/07/2011 at 14:58, rotherham soul said:

The Temptations - I Gotta Find A Way (To Get You Back)

Jimmy Ruffin - He Who Picks A Rose

 

4 hours ago, the yank said:

I guess you didn't read my original comment which said "Not the same backing track but these two sound suspiciously alike..." ?

No.  I read your comment, as I did all the comments before my post.  I'm just old and can't remember almost any short term happenings.  If I live 30 more years, I might remember it THEN.  I can remember everything from 50-70 years ago.  But I can't even remember what I wrote at the start of this post!  😩

6 hours ago, RobbK said:

Hi Ady,

Actually, I must have had a senile moment when I "remembered" wrongly that the M. Jackson on the Maurci label was Mckinley Jackson.  It was Maurice Jackson of Chicago.  So, there is NO Detroit connection to trace from Maurci to Dave Hamilton, at least not from the Maurci label credits.  We'd have to talk to someone who worked with Gene Chandler or Symtec Simmons to find out if they had any connections to Detroit people.

Is Maurice Jackson still around to ask ? I know his son is the famous Hip Hop guy Madlib.

same backing ,the link here is Jesse Herring I guess ....

Prepare yourself for this one, definitely NOT for the faint hearted. Play it through to the end, i'm sure even though it is truly Awful it SHOULD make you smile, Just don't shoot the messenger.....  🙄 

 

No explanation required.

Vikki Styles. 

 

 

Doni Burdick and Dynamics

Dynamics prob the better record but Doni was a massive spin as well during the 90s.Both have a near perfect backing track for the dancers

 

 

Nolan Chance - Just like the weather
Denise LaSalle - Love reputation
and similar but not exactly the same
Denise LaSalle - Too late to check your trap

 

 

Edited June 8, 20186 yr by Northern Soul UK
added info

Cody Black - Love like i never had - Ram Brock

Electric banana - Will i ever be free - Flip-O

Yvonne Baker "You Didn't Say A Word" 

and this

 

Edited June 10, 20186 yr by the yank

On 05/06/2018 at 23:01, RobbK said:

This one is interesting.  I wonder who the connection is.  Popcorn Wylie worked on "Going Back To Detroit", and knew Jonny Mae Mathews from the beginning.  He recorded for her on her Northern Records in 1960.  Maybe she leased it from him for a token amount.

The Platters management went to Detroit & asked for Detroit cut backing tracks they could use on songs for their group. As I understand it, local producers took old tracks, removed the old vocals and new lyrics were written. The tracks were then used in a New York studio with Sonny Turner & some studio backing singers doing their thing on the old Detroit tracks ... the Platters needed their sound updated back at the time & so their management team (for whom they were the cash-cow) adopted this policy as an almost sure fire winner ... not too many of those 'new songs' were 45 hits but the LP must have sold OK (both in the US and in the other countries where the album escaped). 

Is the story behind the Maurci tracks a similar scenario ?? 

Edited June 10, 20186 yr by Roburt

Not the same backing track but ORIGINALLY the same song ...

Gene Dozier started work on a song back in Philly ... he then moved on to Detroit & then LA. In LA he cut Lorenzo Manley on a ballad but didn't have a B side cut (due to lack of cash). So he used a demo version he'd sung on himself as the B side of Lorenzo's 45 .. thus we came to have "Swoop Down On You" (the track doesn't feature Lorenzo at all BTW). The 45 (which does feature Lorenzo on the A side) was licensed for release by Original Sound. At that time, Ugene was still using the false name he had taken on to land earlier work in Detroit; Billy Jackson. As stated earlier, Gene had started to write the song back in Philly, though it wasn't finished when he'd moved on to Detroit. So his version (credited to Jackson - Santifer -- his LA collaborator), when completed, differs a bit from the original Philly version of the song, which of course when developed by Norman Johnson became  Eddie Carlton's "It Will Be Done". 

Edited June 11, 20186 yr by Roburt

10 hours ago, Roburt said:

The Platters management went to Detroit & asked for Detroit cut backing tracks they could use on songs for their group. As I understand it, local producers took old tracks, removed the old vocals and new lyrics were written. The tracks were then used in a New York studio with Sonny Turner & some studio backing singers doing their thing on the old Detroit tracks ... the Platters needed their sound updated back at the time & so their management team (for whom they were the cash-cow) adopted this policy as an almost sure fire winner ... not too many of those 'new songs' were 45 hits but the LP must have sold OK (both in the US and in the other countries where the album escaped). 

Is the story behind the Maurci tracks a similar scenario ?? 

It was Luther Dixon, in New York, producing the releases.  I doubt that it was a similar situation between Maurci and Dave Hamilton's tracks, because Hamilton said he knew nothing at all about Maurci Records in Chicago, and how they got hold of the tracks.

On 06/06/2018 at 10:58, RICK SCOTT said:

Prepare yourself for this one, definitely NOT for the faint hearted. Play it through to the end, i'm sure even though it is truly Awful it SHOULD make you smile, Just don't shoot the messenger.....  🙄 

 

Much prefer the other side not on the demo copy of course 

 

'treat her right (mr love)' - 33 and a third and 'indian soul' - moon people

same backing

Mad Dog and the Pups - Please dont let me go - Magic City

Johnny Starr - Dark skies - Stag

 

Great stuff! Some great mileage in these compositions, which I like to see, very good for the composers to have a track used over and over, don't forget that every radio or dancehall play made a royalty for them even if the record didn't do much charts wise.

Very good thread and informative thankyou!

 

Ann Robinson/ Shirley Turner 

 

Amazing tunes,a pic of the reissues

 

 

 

 

 

 

You'll either hate it or love it

 

 

 

: Hesitations - I'm not built that way 

: summat else i can't chuffin remember

2 hours ago, IanP said:

: Hesitations - I'm not built that way 

: summat else i can't chuffin remember

 

oh aye,,    i knew it was an RCA release

Did the backing from Bert Keyes "Do-Do Do Bah-Ah" on Clock have a proper vocal release?

Maxine brown - one in a million...... sounds like "thumb a ride"

Edited June 14, 20186 yr by IanP