The Ledgends Fear Not

[Guest]

This was being discussed in the 'wants' section and the label 'Red Balloon' was mentioned. I was wondering if it has been booted on this label ?

tia

[Mal C]

I dont think so, Locket is the local label, nationally on Commonwealth United Records. The Legends did have release on Red Balloon though, but its 'Something to Remember you by', flipped with 'Gotta Let you go' which is a real killer, might be that release you have seen?

Mal.C

Edited April 19, 2012 by Mal.C.

[Guest]

had some info passed to me on this one and I always considered it to be a boot. Doing some research I found the price was estimated at £75-100 a few years ago - its not a boot

I listed on here some time back in a 'look at boots' and was contacted by JM who wanted to use it in his book. I sent it off to him and after some weeks had passed I said rather than return it he could keep it for £15

the details are:

flip is:

"A FOOL FOR YOU"

Matrix for Fear Not is:

RB 03B (scratched)

flipside is also scratched - RB 03A

well, you live and learn

Edited April 20, 2012 by mikecook

[Guest]

sure as hell would not have let it go if I had known it was not a bootleg

[boba]

i'd pay 100 pounds if someone has a copy. thanks.

[Guest]

surprised JM didn't know about this one

[Guest]

does anybody know if this did get a photo and mention in Manships book?

if so, would anybody like to let me know what was said about it please....it would be interesting to find out

[Guest]

and there was me thinking that someone would answer

[Robbk]

First, "Fear Not"/"Gotta Let You Go" was issued on Locket (Clarence Johnson's and Johnny Cameron's label?) (local Chicago). Then, it was leased to Commonwealth United Records for national distribution. Later (1 year?), "Gotta Let You Go" was re-issued on Chicago's Red Balloon Records.

Interesting that a small, local, Chicago label, clearly pressed in a Chicago pressing plant, lists an L.A. address for its corporation. Any insight into that, Bob? We know that The Ledgends and Sunday Williams recordings were made in Chicago, and Clarence Johnson and Johnny Cameron were working in Chicago then (never in L.A.). Could it be that the financier of the label operated out of L.A.?

Edited April 23, 2012 by RobbK

[Guest]

fear not was released on the Red Balloon label .. fact!!

I thought it was a boot. JM contacted me and asked if he could use it for his book. Weeks past and it did not get returned. Eventually I contacted him and said he could buy it. At no time did he tell me it was not a boot and fetched £75 - £100 so I can only assume that he must also have thought it a boot?

I would be interested to find anyone who has the JM book the Red Balloon copy of Fear Not appears in and what he says about it?

So although grateful to see a response Rob...It misses vital information regarding the actual record this thread is discussing

[boba]

the ledgends told me that they just put the LA thing on the label to make it look more important. There was no actual connection to or financial backing from LA.

Robb, there is a second 45 on Red Balloon (the subject of this thread). Fear not is the b-side of that record. The a-side is a track called "Fool for you". It took me a while to get a copy, I would like to get one for my friend.

[boba]

also, some kids in new york recently stole the song and credited themselves as the writers:

it's pretty funny that they're called "jack moves" after they jacked the song. total jack moves.

[Robbk]

had some info passed to me on this one and I always considered it to be a boot. Doing some research I found the price was estimated at £75-100 a few years ago - its not a boot

I listed on here some time back in a 'look at boots' and was contacted by JM who wanted to use it in his book. I sent it off to him and after some weeks had passed I said rather than return it he could keep it for £15

the details are:

flip is:

"A FOOL FOR YOU"

Matrix for Fear Not is:

RB 03B (scratched)

flipside is also scratched - RB 03A

well, you live and learn

Sorry. I hadn't noticed that it was Red Balloon 03 you were discussing with "Fool For You"/"Fear Not". I didn't know about that record. After hearing The Jack Moves' version, I am curious to hear the Ledgends'.

[Guest]

I'm confused & surprised this has not been a hot topic of discussion .... it seems that not a lot of people know about this record; which usually brings attention on these forums for people to give their input

this one seems to be dying a death for some reason

[Sweeney]

also, some kids in new york recently stole the song and credited themselves as the writers:

it's pretty funny that they're called "jack moves" after they jacked the song. total jack moves.

Looking at a label scan on this site they seem happy to credit it to The Ledgends. Has someone had a word? Not sure about the publishing details though.

Edited April 23, 2012 by sweeney

[Mrtag]

Can't find anything in any of JM's books about it's release on Red Baloon!! Sorry ! atb John.

[Guest]

Thanks for your reply John and thank you for taking the time to have a look...very much appreciated

The conversations I had with JM led me to believe it would appear in his book and I was going to get a mention for supplying him with the record to borrow!

As I said previously, it was in his possession for so long and with the impression that it was a boot I sold it to him

[boba]

Looking at a label scan on this site they seem happy to credit it to The Ledgends. Has someone had a word? Not sure about the publishing details though.

they put their own publishing on it, total BS. I posted about it on another site but haven't had any direct contact with them. The actual writers names on the real record, they may have never even seen the actual 45. They owe the songwriters mechanicals which wouldn't be a ton of money but would be a gesture of good faith and would actually get the people who didn't make much money back in the day some money.

[Sweeney]

they put their own publishing on it, total BS. I posted about it on another site but haven't had any direct contact with them. The actual writers names on the real record, they may have never even seen the actual 45. They owe the songwriters mechanicals which wouldn't be a ton of money but would be a gesture of good faith and would actually get the people who didn't make much money back in the day some money.

I thought the publishing details seemed at variance to the Ledgends version, but it could have been that over the intervening time publishing companies change/get absorbed into bigger concerns so couldn't be sure.

If they've done this it's obviously quite unacceptable and they need to do the right thing. As you say - the vast majority of artists and writers of this music we love got scant reward for their talent.

It would be nice to think that the original artistes could get even a few dollars and a bit of recognition.

Edited April 23, 2012 by sweeney

[Des Crombie]

Mike, I can understand thinking this is a boot as the 'fear not / fool for you' red balloon has a lot simpler label than their other red balloon record. Found a pic on popsike below. I also think I heard somewhere that the band did not know 'fool for you' had been released - boba? Its defo a mystery.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Dezzie Boy

[boba]

Mike, I can understand thinking this is a boot as the 'fear not / fool for you' red balloon has a lot simpler label than their other red balloon record. Found a pic on popsike below. I also think I heard somewhere that the band did not know 'fool for you' had been released - boba? Its defo a mystery.

you heard the band's opinion from another post of mine, I interviewed them.

Either way, this is not a bootleg, it was pressed by Lamar Greer, who was a group member, producer, and partial label owner. He is deceased.

[Robbk]

Upon seeing that label, I'm SURE I bought that record in 1969. I don't know why my copy isn't with my other Red Balloon records. But I'm sure I didn't trade it away. So, it must be misshelved, or with a batch of about 2,000 Soul singles that I loaned a friend to tape. Of course, I wouldn't want to sell it. Someone had a few of those. I think it was John Anderson, but I don't remember for sure.

[boba]

Upon seeing that label, I'm SURE I bought that record in 1969. I don't know why my copy isn't with my other Red Balloon records. But I'm sure I didn't trade it away. So, it must be misshelved, or with a batch of about 2,000 Soul singles that I loaned a friend to tape. Of course, I wouldn't want to sell it. Someone had a few of those. I think it was John Anderson, but I don't remember for sure.

John Anderson told me he had a few of them at one point. Not common though.

[Guest]

I kinda feel I was ripped off in a round-a-bout way that's the second big name record dealer I will never have dealings with again .... honestly thought he would have commented .... if his name gets mentioned in a thread he usually responds

[Pete S]

I kinda feel I was ripped off in a round-a-bout way that's the second big name record dealer I will never have dealings with again .... honestly thought he would have commented .... if his name gets mentioned in a thread he usually responds

He doesn't come on here anymore for some reason.

[Guest]

live and learn Mike, live and learn. I sent the record to him in April 2009 after he sent me a message asking if he could scan for his book and would credit me as supplying. by the near end of June that year I had not heard a dicky bird from him. So thinking it was a boot and the time that had past from not hearing a single thing from him decided that as it was a boot and he had not bothered returning the record or had the decency to contact me I decided to sell the 'bootleg' to him as it had been gone so long ..... the more I think about it the more I feel I was ripped off by someone who should be more professional in his dealings ... so the only thing I can do now is live & learn ... those that are respected can also be the villains of the scene

[Guest]

edit

Edited April 24, 2012 by mikecook

[Pete S]

Trouble is, too much water probably gone under the bridge since it all happened. Doesn't hurt to ask why it happened though. Nobody enjoys bad publicity.

[Guest]

I'm sure he is aware of this thread by now Pete .... and I'm sure that if there is a perfectly reasonable explanation to why he never informed me at any stage it was not a boot ....an explanation of why he kept if for two months without any communications to me...... an explanation to why it didn't appear in any of his books with my name accredited (if this is the case) he will come on and give those explanations to dismiss any bad publicity

I have formulated my own explanation.... and I'm sure others may come to the same conclusion.

John is a member on here and he was extremely quick to jump into the last thread I mentioned him in when I was trying to sell a record .... I had mistaken it for an orig and he was damn sure quick enough to come in and tell me it wasn't .... so over to you John.... I'm sure you'll have a perfectly good explanation that will change my mind in the way I now believe you operate as a 'respected' member of the soul scene

Edited April 24, 2012 by mikecook

[Sebastian]

an explanation to why it didn't appear in any of his books with my name accredited

Manship's latest price/bootleg guide came out in 2008.

You wrote that you sent him the record in April 2009.

It's impossible for him to have included it in any guide yet.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Sebastian

[Guest]

Manship's latest price/bootleg guide came out in 2008.

You wrote that you sent him the record in April 2009.

It's impossible for him to have included it in any guide yet.

thank you Sebastian ... that's one down

[Cobbles]

hi mike, once you found out that it wasn't a boot did you contact JM to ask for it back or more money for the sale???...as you said ,initially you both were under the impression it was a boot ???...maybe speaking to him direct would clear things up satisfactorily for you instead of a public accusation....as he's less likely to want to give you back the 45 or give you more money for the sale as he'll think you've publically accused him of hoodwinking you!

always found it better to sort things with someone direct than knee jerk into a slagging off session

the shoe on the other foot.......if you'd bought something from JM that you both thought was a cheap record and ended up to be dead rare and desirable would you offer him it back or give him more dosh retrospectively??....slightly different scenario i know but same morals.

maybe he's still got your "boot" and would be happy to give it back now knowing that it's an original but you haven't given him the chance

just a thought

franc

ps....hope you get it sorted either way...but as you said "we all live and learn by our mistakes"

pps...just as an after thought and a genuine question ......would you be as upset if a fellow collector had said i'll buy that "boot" for £15 and you sold it to them...or wouldn't you have sold it ?

Edited April 24, 2012 by cobbles

[Guest]

hi mike, once you found out that it wasn't a boot did you contact JM to ask for it back or more money for the sale???...as you said ,initially you both were under the impression it was a boot ???...maybe speaking to him direct would clear things up satisfactorily for you instead of a public accusation....as he's less likely to want to give you back the 45 or give you more money for the sale as he'll think you've publically accused him of hoodwinking you!

always found it better to sort things with someone direct than knee jerk into a slagging off session

the shoe on the other foot.......if you'd bought something from JM that you both thought was a cheap record and ended up to be dead rare and desirable would you offer him it back or give him more dosh retrospectively??....slightly different scenario i know but same morals.

maybe he's still got your "boot" and would be happy to give it back now knowing that it's an original but you haven't given him the chance

just a thought

franc

ps....hope you get it sorted either way...but as you said "we all live and learn by our mistakes"

pps...just as an after thought and a genuine question ......would you be as upset if a fellow collector had said i'll buy that "boot" for £15 and you sold it to them...or wouldn't you have sold it ?

I posted up a page full of boots on here. he contacted me to say the Ledgends one was 'interesting'...as it stands, he has never said it was a boot or orig.

i only learnt it was not a boot after i posted my original question in this thread

and as it stands, I would return if the boot was on the other foot..excuse the pun

and yes, prob a knee jerk reaction as it all came to light during this thread

Edited April 24, 2012 by mikecook

[Cobbles]

fair dues mike.... then you need to call him and see what he says but i don't think you've helped your cause by some of your comments about him....because if he hasn't been on the site for a while you've publically tried him without a defence

hope you get sorted

franc

[boba]

I agree with cobbles. If you think you've been wronged, it probably is better to call them up and discuss it versus first going public (although I understand you needed confirmation about whether it was a boot or not before knowing the situation so you had to at least ask publicly initially). Also, in record collecting, you have wins and losses, you could chalk it up to experience. I don't know manship's motivations either, maybe he thought it was a boot also? I think you should talk to him directly before posting more.