6ts & Valatone @ 100 Club-stop Press

[karl]

Hi all, just recovered from a great night at the 100 club last night :dance: got back into Manchester at 12.30.

There were about 30 of us who traveled down to London to give our support to a lovely person on the soul sceene and a great DJ to boot, JUMPING JOAN !!! from Preston. We all love the girl and shes got one hell of a record collection, and can dj too!!! To me shes one of the best around and i'd travel anywhere to hear you play chuck!!!! TIP TOP.

BUT

And its a big but too, i was sickened and dam right f*****g angry when i found out that Joan had only got paid £60 for her two spots!! (I thought she was having me on as a laugh).

At the end of the night i approached Ady and exprested my concern in the matter to which he just shrugged his shoulders and said so what.

F*****G GENEROUS THAT MR PROMOTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cosidering there was at least 250 in the building all paying £12 each to get in. To my reconing thats £3000, now i know you've got to make some profit on these nights, i dont hold that against anyone!! BUT £60 IS TAKING THE PISS JUST A LITTLE TO FAR!!!!!!!!!!!! If this was me i would have thrown it back in your face just for the pure cheek of it. Thats probably only just covered her petrol money there and back to Preston. Is it all worth it i ask you?

I feel that strongley about this to say i certainly will not be going again to the 100 club, as i am not going to be one who lines the pockets of another greedy promoter!!!

Do we have another Mr Rob***s here asswell? I HOPE NOT!!!

This is a total insult to Joan!!!

Joan is so mild natured that even if you paid her nothing she still would'nt say anything. I wonder if your prepaired to let us all know what Ginger got payed for his two spots? ( nothing against you Ginger my friend ), but i bet it was at least triple Joans?

I realy do hope Ady your not like the other horrible man mentioned who is just in it for the DOSH and not the SOUL.

I'm affraid this is a DIG at you sir!! But hope your man enough to address the situation and PAY THE GIRL WHAT SHE DESERVES!!!!!!!

DO YOU ACCTUALY GET SOME SLEEP AT NIGHT MR CROASDELL? You must have no conscience!!!

I've never wanted to come on this sight to slag people off but feel this time this is desevered.

COME ON ADY, dont be a complete and utter tw*t!!!!!!!

Sorry if this causes some shit but if this is what the soul sceene is coming to then F**K IT IT STINKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards Karl. A very bitter man at present!!!!

[Supercorsa]

Surely if there was a problem concerning fees, this would be a private matter between Ady & Joan. Not for publication on here. :angry:

[Boogaloo]

............ i certainly will not be going again to the 100 club.......

Well it doesn't seem like a complete loss.

Sorry mate, but if Joan was unhappy (and it doesn't seem that way from her reply to my posting) surely she's big enough to say so herself.

Warren

[Guest Baz]

I've unnaproved the last too post's, (this basicly means only mods can see them they've not been deleted) until get some kind of ok or out from those involved, can see your concerns Karl, and this is nothing against you, but need to sort first

Cheers Baz

Edited August 13, 2006 by Baz

[Boogaloo]

Well, I am getting a little forgetful but i was sure there was a posting here a second ago. Perhaps its the old age.

Warren

[Guest]

Hi all, just recovered from a great night at the 100 club last night :dance: got back into Manchester at 12.30.

There were about 30 of us who traveled down to London to give our support to a lovely person on the soul sceene and a great DJ to boot, JUMPING JOAN !!! from Preston. We all love the girl and shes got one hell of a record collection, and can dj too!!! To me shes one of the best around and i'd travel anywhere to hear you play chuck!!!! TIP TOP.

BUT

And its a big but too, i was sickened and dam right f*****g angry when i found out that Joan had only got paid £60 for her two spots!! (I thought she was having me on as a laugh).

At the end of the night i approached Ady and exprested my concern in the matter to which he just shrugged his shoulders and said so what.

F*****G GENEROUS THAT MR PROMOTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cosidering there was at least 250 in the building all paying £12 each to get in. To my reconing thats £3000, now i know you've got to make some profit on these nights, i dont hold that against anyone!! BUT £60 IS TAKING THE PISS JUST A LITTLE TO FAR!!!!!!!!!!!! If this was me i would have thrown it back in your face just for the pure cheek of it. Thats probably only just covered her petrol money there and back to Preston. Is it all worth it i ask you?

I feel that strongley about this to say i certainly will not be going again to the 100 club, as i am not going to be one who lines the pockets of another greedy promoter!!!

Do we have another Mr Rob***s here asswell? I HOPE NOT!!!

This is a total insult to Joan!!!

Joan is so mild natured that even if you paid her nothing she still would'nt say anything. I wonder if your prepaired to let us all know what Ginger got payed for his two spots? ( nothing against you Ginger my friend ), but i bet it was at least triple Joans?

I realy do hope Ady your not like the other horrible man mentioned who is just in it for the DOSH and not the SOUL.

I'm affraid this is a DIG at you sir!! But hope your man enough to address the situation and PAY THE GIRL WHAT SHE DESERVES!!!!!!!

DO YOU ACCTUALY GET SOME SLEEP AT NIGHT MR CROASDELL? You must have no conscience!!!

I've never wanted to come on this sight to slag people off but feel this time this is desevered.

COME ON ADY, dont be a complete and utter tw*t!!!!!!!

Sorry if this causes some shit but if this is what the soul sceene is coming to then F**K IT IT STINKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards Karl. A very bitter man at present!!!!

Your out of order,the place doesnt hold 3000+,not saying no more.bye Edited August 13, 2006 by ken

[Guest Baz]

Your out of order,the place doesnt old 3000+,not saying no more.bye

Sorry Ken i've edited out Karls post as i have unaproved them for now nothing personal mate you know that

[Ady Croasdell]

Baz, I've got no problems with anyone having a go at me over how I run the club, they're entitled to their opinions and if I disagree with them I'm entitled to reply to them. I think any ensuing row might marr the memory of the night for a few people but in the end it was a brilliant evening and one I'm proud of. I don't get everything right but the end result seemed to satisfy the vast majority of the people.

It's a bit like airing your dirty washing in public (if that's the right phrase?) but I'd rather do that than stand down to unfair accusations or be seen to be protected by SS. I know you're just being cautious, but I'm OK with it.

Edited August 13, 2006 by ady croasdell

[Guest]

Sorry Ken i've edited out Karls post as i have unaproved them for now nothing personal mate you know that

OK Baz,thanks everybody for my pressies everybody,been eating lollies allday,nice shirt(cheers Donna),nice lighter(Anton),better start smokin again loads of sweets, cards, etc;and a nice copy of Shep;fool to fool(AndyBB),absolutly banging.Ken

[Guest]

Well it doesn't seem like a complete loss.

Sorry mate, but if Joan was unhappy (and it doesn't seem that way from her reply to my posting) surely she's big enough to say so herself.

Warren

Got to say it,you look like a pixie in you avatar

[Ady Croasdell]

Yeah while we're on the positives, thanks for all the cards and pressies, Toby's huge bottle of port, Anton's slip mat, Ginger's super strength real ale and for Donna's flaming hedgehog. Loads of beer (Chantelle with two) and champers was shoved down my neck too; Cheers.

A massive thank you to JT, BB and the Valatone crew who were so accomodating and selfless in realising the chance to double up the two venerable clubs was too good to miss. Egos were ignored and it made for a fantastic night all round. Jon came round eventually and I hope he and his crowd enjoyed his celebrations, it certainly looked like it.

Yet again I think the London soul crowd can be proud of how we sort out potential problems and all get on with each other remarkably well; especially if you look at other areas of the soul world.

[Guest Baz]

Re-approved posts

[Ady Croasdell]

Karl, I can assure you that I'm just as angry as you. I was stunned at the end of the night when you came over out of the blue to moan about Joan's wages.

You got the amount wrong which doesn't reflect well on the state of your mind at the time. I'm not sure what gave you the authority but if you'd have had the brains to speak civily and say that you thought it was a bit on the light side I would have reconsidered and would have bunged her an extra twenty quid for petrol money. I admit it was the lower end of two figures I was thinking of, but I've had a few nights where I've made less than some of the DJs for a lot of hard work, so I was overly cautious. I'd already had to force one DJs wages onto him earlier in the night because he said he wanted to do it for nothing and I told him that DJs always get paid whether we've made money or not. In twenty seven years of promoting this is the first complaint about wages I've had, so to equate me with other promoters is bullshit; I'll even start to sympathise with the evil one if you keep this up.

It was great to see Joan's fans make the trip down, I thought it a good idea to give an up and coming DJ the chance to play at our legendary all nighter and I'm even more pleased that she did such a great spot. However she isn't a major name DJ like Ginger, only had two half hours not two three quarter hours and you're way off on estimating Ginger's wages, he's a good mate who wanted to come down for my birthday and loves the club.

You have a complete cheek in trying to work out how much we made on the night. You have no idea of the costs involved. I had to pay out extra DJ's, door staff and pay the rent for the cancelled Valatone in addition to the regular high costs of running the Hundred Club. I have no idea what you do for a living (you're not a diplomat presumably) but I wouldn't ask you to put all the details of it up on a public viewing site.

When I DJ up north, I leave the price to the promoter, sometimes it's OK sometimes not, but I know there's not a lot of dosh in promoting. After I've paid my train fare and hotel bill (I'm too old and too straight to completely miss a night's sleep these days) I can assure you I get less than what Joan would have ended up with. I do it because I enjoy it, love the music and fancy a good subsidised night out.

If Joan has a minimum price perhaps you can act as her agent and we'll negotiate it in advance next time. I'd love to have her on again but could do without the type of shit stirring you've decided to come out with.

Yours decidedly f***ing unimpressed

Ady

PS One of your party managed to pour a whole bottle of talc over the dancefloor which cost an extra £20 for the cleaners and jeopardises our chance of having an extended night down there again. If I give you the blokes name perhaps he will donate that to Joan's wages

[Guest Andy Brazil]

hold your horses!

i don't think i know you Karl

so,

from one person who had a great night last night,

(I came on here specifically to congratulate Joan on her great set)

to another,

i suggest you might

consider the up & down,rollercoaster nature of this game

sure last night was a great turnout,

what about the nights over the last 27 years when through the innevitable bad patches /hard times big losses have had to be taken on the chin?

I Doubt very much that someone with the attitude you describe in your post

would have stuck with it through the lean times;

-

if he didn't have the big heart,SINCERITY,good humour & patience

that he shows even when things aren't as easy as you may imagine.

it takes suss & experience (which can be costly in so many ways) to make it appear easy!

i hope you reconsider and offer Ady an apology as he really does not deserve this

bearing in mind that paying every dj the same £60;

when you've had a real kick in the balls,

-how am i going to pay bills type big loss,

it no longer feels like small change! ! !

did you consult Joan before you

"did her the favour"

of posting all this ?

as i said,

from one person who had a great night last night

to

another.

.A

Edited August 13, 2006 by Andy Brazil

[Dave Thorley]

Karl, I can assure you that I'm just as angry as you. I was stunned at the end of the night when you came over out of the blue to moan about Joan's wages.

You got the amount wrong which doesn't reflect well on the state of your mind at the time. I'm not sure what gave you the authority but if you'd have had the brains to speak civily and say that you thought it was a bit on the light side I would have reconsidered and would have bunged her an extra twenty quid for petrol money. I admit it was the lower end of two figures I was thinking of, but I've had a few nights where I've made less than some of the DJs for a lot of hard work, so I was overly cautious. I'd already had to force one DJs wages onto him earlier in the night because he said he wanted to do it for nothing and I told him that DJs always get paid whether we've made money or not. In twenty seven years of promoting this is the first complaint about wages I've had, so to equate me with other promoters is bullshit; I'll even start to sympathise with the evil one if you keep this up.

It was great to see Joan's fans make the trip down, I thought it a good idea to give an up and coming DJ the chance to play at our legendary all nighter and I'm even more pleased that she did such a great spot. However she isn't a major name DJ like Ginger, only had two half hours not two three quarter hours and you're way off on estimating Ginger's wages, he's a good mate who wanted to come down for my birthday and loves the club.

You have a complete cheek in trying to work out how much we made on the night. You have no idea of the costs involved. I had to pay out extra DJ's, door staff and pay the rent for the cancelled Valatone in addition to the regular high costs of running the Hundred Club. I have no idea what you do for a living (you're not a diplomat presumably) but I wouldn't ask you to put all the details of it up on a public viewing site.

When I DJ up north, I leave the price to the promoter, sometimes it's OK sometimes not, but I know there's not a lot of dosh in promoting. After I've paid my train fare and hotel bill (I'm too old and too straight to completely miss a night's sleep these days) I can assure you I get less than what Joan would have ended up with. I do it because I enjoy it, love the music and fancy a good subsidised night out.

If Joan has a minimum price perhaps you can act as her agent and we'll negotiate it in advance next time. I'd love to have her on again but could do without the type of shit stirring you've decided to come out with.

Yours decidedly f***ing unimpressed

Ady

PS One of your party managed to pour a whole bottle of talc over the dancefloor which cost an extra £20 for the cleaners and jeopardises our chance of having an extended night down there again. If I give you the blokes name perhaps he will donate that to Joan's wages

I worked for Ady way back and in those days some times he would walk with close to a loss. But he never moaned, just kept on doing it, thats why London has the great scene it has now. I also know how he feels as a promoter, you always try to do best, but there is always someone not happy. But thats life, heat of the moment and all that

Dave

[Guest SteveC]

Not gonna get embroiled in this one - all I have to say is what a terriffic night with some storming sounds played and yes it will seem I'm joining the bandwagon but JJs spots were superb and what a record to kick off her 2nd spot (Intentions) - Hopefully one winging its way to the South Coast in the next day or 2.

Ginger just made you realise that if there was ever one oldie you'll never get bored of its Eddie Parker of which incidentally Mrs C - bless her, mimics to the T as I discovered this afternoon when I got home

Great to see some really good friends from the North who I had a scream with and with whom I could share the passion of fresh 60's sounds talk with.

Well done Ady - just when it seems it can't get any better another stonkers pulled out the bag.

Good company, great music, shit dance floor what more could you ask for. Thank you.

[Mattbolton]

Don't really come on here very often any more, but have to congratulate Ady for an enjoyable return to the 100 Club after an enforced absence last night. Amazing atmosphere. Top class music. Thought it was a fitting celebration. Even if i didn't get any cake. Peggy Gaines went down a treat. As did Kiki Dee!

It really cemented why this club is probably the most important on the soul scene. Simply passionate about nothing else but soul. A club that has managed to stay clear of politics (for the most part) in favour of promoting quality soul music of the rarest order. Few clubs can offer this guarantee.

Karl wise up. You've made yourself look like a bit of a prick really. Do you imagine the British youth team complain about their wages at being asked to perform at the Olympics? Thought not.

Sorry to be missing the anniversary.

Top bombing.

Edited August 14, 2006 by mattbolton

[Guest]

Sounds like you lot (Karl?) had a real good time, I haven't been down the 100 Club for a few years now but it was always the best nighter for me, had some awesome nights there so I'm feeling a little envious of you all reading your posts.

As for Joan, she put me onto loads of top tunes during the 90s and as far as I'm concerned has always, always, been a great DJ and thoroughly deserves the accolades, GO GIRL!!

[karl]

Thank you Ady for the reply. I agree alot of things on there were under the belt and should not have been put on for public view!! Yes some remarks there were said in the heat of the moment that should not have been said!!! Some not ment!! I accept deplomacy nil on my behalf.

I understand about the ups and downs over the years, promoting can not be an easy job, theres always the busy times and the less busy times, but doesn't that happen in every walk of life? I lose out somtimes in my line of work but the people that work for me still want a wage at the end of the week

I offer you my apology on how i have handled this! ( Like a bull in a china shop ). I hope you will accept this?

I have been down to the 100 club a few times now and have enjoyed every one, you've got a great club down there!! Show's that by the length of time it's been going, speaks for itself and i enjoy the cleethorpes weekenders, there great! It takes alot of time and effort to put on these things.

I just get so angry in the way alot of the lesser known dj's get treated, Joan was made up and so excited at being asked to play there, shes one hell of a great friend to have and to watch her building up for this over the last few weeks gave us a great buzz!!!!

She's one hell of a good dj that to me is so underated by alot of people!!!!!

Ady the last thing i wanted to do was start a war and went about things in the wrong way!! I dont like falling out with anyone and making enemies, lifes to short. Ok i was wrong with the figures, to tell you the true I would'nt have a clue at the total. There was a large amount of people there Sat night though, great atmosphere and made it a top night that we all enjoyed. I thank you for that!!! But the same old thing happens again. The lesser known dj's get the least, thats how it is and allways will be, I can live with that, but to come down to London from Preston costs a fair few quid with petrol prices as they are today. I know Joan would have dj'd for nothing for you, she was so proud to be asked, but it's nice to be rewarded for all your hard work and effort thats goes into dj-ing on these great nights. It's not easy up on that stage and can be a bit daunting at times.

I did'nt want a slanging match with you Ady, didnt seem like that i know, and yes the last post was put over in a very bad way!!! We all get angry and start shouting before we think!!! Ady i'm sorry for that.

I only want whats fair and i really do think she deserves more than just her petrol money, it's the same as going to work, when you work you earn a bit of money, you dont just get paid expenses there and back. I havent met one person yet that goes to work and doesnt get anything for doing so!! If the night runs at a loss i can understand your point. But credit where credits due, a bit of a bonas for a job well done, if the night makes a bit of a profit, makes all that hard work worth the while!!!!

I hope this time i've explained and expressed my feelings a bit better. (I was a bit pissed off earlier to say the least.) Sorry! not much sleep this weekend.

As you've probably gathered my feelings on this matter are very strong, I've been in love with the music since the age of 12, theres nothing in the world that comes anywhere near soul and never will!!!!

Lesser known dj's do deserve alot more respect than they get!!!!!

I dont think i'm asking for alot here, and would be greatful if some thought over this matter be given and hopefully a peaceful solution found!!

This has been bugging me for some time now and reached its limits Sat. Sorry you got the brunt of it!

I offer you my apologys Ady? And hope this incident can be resolved quickly?

Regards Karl.

[Guest]

Thank you Ady for the reply. I agree alot of things on there were under the belt and should not have been put on for public view!! Yes some remarks there were said in the heat of the moment that should not have been said!!! Some not ment!! I accept deplomacy nil on my behalf.

I understand about the ups and downs over the years, promoting can not be an easy job, theres always the busy times and the less busy times, but doesn't that happen in every walk of life? I lose out somtimes in my line of work but the people that work for me still want a wage at the end of the week

I offer you my apology on how i have handled this! ( Like a bull in a china shop ). I hope you will accept this?

I have been down to the 100 club a few times now and have enjoyed every one, you've got a great club down there!! Show's that by the length of time it's been going, speaks for itself and i enjoy the cleethorpes weekenders, there great! It takes alot of time and effort to put on these things.

I just get so angry in the way alot of the lesser known dj's get treated, Joan was made up and so excited at being asked to play there, shes one hell of a great friend to have and to watch her building up for this over the last few weeks gave us a great buzz!!!!

She's one hell of a good dj that to me is so underated by alot of people!!!!!

Ady the last thing i wanted to do was start a war and went about things in the wrong way!! I dont like falling out with anyone and making enemies, lifes to short. Ok i was wrong with the figures, to tell you the true I would'nt have a clue at the total. There was a large amount of people there Sat night though, great atmosphere and made it a top night that we all enjoyed. I thank you for that!!! But the same old thing happens again. The lesser known dj's get the least, thats how it is and allways will be, I can live with that, but to come down to London from Preston costs a fair few quid with petrol prices as they are today. I know Joan would have dj'd for nothing for you, she was so proud to be asked, but it's nice to be rewarded for all your hard work and effort thats goes into dj-ing on these great nights. It's not easy up on that stage and can be a bit daunting at times.

I did'nt want a slanging match with you Ady, didnt seem like that i know, and yes the last post was put over in a very bad way!!! We all get angry and start shouting before we think!!! Ady i'm sorry for that.

I only want whats fair and i really do think she deserves more than just her petrol money, it's the same as going to work, when you work you earn a bit of money, you dont just get paid expenses there and back. I havent met one person yet that goes to work and doesnt get anything for doing so!! If the night runs at a loss i can understand your point. But credit where credits due, a bit of a bonas for a job well done, if the night makes a bit of a profit, makes all that hard work worth the while!!!!

I hope this time i've explained and expressed my feelings a bit better. (I was a bit pissed off earlier to say the least.) Sorry! not much sleep this weekend.

As you've probably gathered my feelings on this matter are very strong, I've been in love with the music since the age of 12, theres nothing in the world that comes anywhere near soul and never will!!!!

Lesser known dj's do deserve alot more respect than they get!!!!!

I dont think i'm asking for alot here, and would be greatful if some thought over this matter be given and hopefully a peaceful solution found!!

This has been bugging me for some time now and reached its limits Sat. Sorry you got the brunt of it!

I offer you my apologys Ady? And hope this incident can be resolved quickly?

Regards Karl.

Put it in its perspective,i`ve never been paid sod all,ever............up north,is it any less travelling on my part,Ady pays all his djs,even me come on Karl,i`ve known Joan a thousand years,as a dj,she`s just starting out,allthough like me,been around a long time,and deserves loadsa respect,and some!!...........top-set Joan by the way

[Jumpinjoan]

Logged on this morning ... and saw all this ... WOW!!

All i can say is this.

Yes Ady paid me £60 .... and yes it cost me more than that in petrol.

It don't do it for the money.... never ever have done... i just love it that's all.

Money has never been the motivation behind anything i do and i'm not going to apologise for what Karl said because, well, Karl said it.... and i think he's come back on here and done that very well himself.

It's just a little insulting when you go all that way ... do the same work as the 'top name' DJ's and get paid othing for your trouble.

Ok ... this time Ginger did 30 mins more ... but usually you do the same hour.

Anyway... not my style all this... have to say i'm little miffed that they didn't wait to hear from me to say as to wether i wanted this left up here.. but such is life.

But can i ask... when do you change from being a lesser named DJ to a big named DJ?

When you turn up 5 mins before your spot ... and then f*** off 5 mins after?

[Ady Croasdell]

Thanks Karl, apology accepted, you may have a future in the diplomatic service yet.

As for the matter of the dosh, there's a small cheque on its way North. It's not going to be what you seem to consider the proper amount but if I did that the 100 Club wouldn't have lasted one year let alone twenty seven. In future I'll ask DJs what their minimum is and if its too high I won't use them.

Unfortunately your analogy with work just doesn't hold up here. It's not work, it's a love of good music and a chance for a DJ to play at a famous venue. The 100 Club has a big percentage of knowledgable, record collecting, regular customers who would love to be up on that stage at every do, and a most of them are well worthy. However spots are limited and they rein in their ambitions and still come along to take part and contribute to a great night.

In November I'm holding the first All-European (with the notable exception of Market Harborough) all nighter in the UK and if I paid all the DJs their costs I wouldn't be able to run it. However I doubt if any of them expect that (though I will tell them how much it is) and I don't imagine any will say no.

Anyway I hope you get yourself back down south soon and enjoy another 6TS event.

Ady

[Ady Croasdell]

Logged on this morning ... and saw all this ... WOW!!

All i can say is this.

Yes Ady paid me £60 .... and yes it cost me more than that in petrol.

It don't do it for the money.... never ever have done... i just love it that's all.

Money has never been the motivation behind anything i do and i'm not going to apologise for what Karl said because, well, Karl said it.... and i think he's come back on here and done that very well himself.

It's just a little insulting when you go all that way ... do the same work as the 'top name' DJ's and get paid othing for your trouble.

Ok ... this time Ginger did 30 mins more ... but usually you do the same hour.

Anyway... not my style all this... have to say i'm little miffed that they didn't wait to hear from me to say as to wether i wanted this left up here.. but such is life.

But can i ask... when do you change from being a lesser named DJ to a big named DJ?

When you turn up 5 mins before your spot ... and then f*** off 5 mins after?

Joan, I'm sorry you were insulted by the money, as I said to Karl a small cheque is on the way to mollify you. If you consider £60 to be nothing, then you've obviously got a few more bob than me!

Ginger was booked because he has a great collection of super rare records, knows how to fill a floor in any circumstances and gives a dancefloor added momentum with whatever it is he bellows out over the mike. He had previous soul dos to DJ at, but still wanted to come down to the 100 Club to celebrate my birthday and also his car was stuck in traffic caused by a huge street fight in Camden on the way down. He left after his second spot because he'd had a very hard weekend with lots of gigs, is well over fifty and has had ill health so doesn't want to kill himself just to satisfy people that he is a "hard core" soul man.

In answer to your question, you change from being a lesser name DJ when you get gigs at famous venues, at all different types of venues (and still pack the floor) and when you learn to talk. There hasn't been a top name DJ on the Northern scene who hasn't talked, you may do it yet, but considering how much you rabbit off stage, I really think it's something you should try to do. You are probably on your way to becoming a big name DJ, judging by the sets I've seen you do, so stick at it, but try and take any small set-backs with some grace rather than having a go at fellow soul fans.

As a footnote, I recently did a 45 minute lecture (I'd rarely spoken in public and never for more than ten minutes before) on Northern Soul which was terrifying for me and I was paid peanuts. However it was something I wanted to do, pushed me to my limits and gave me great satisfaction. Now the next time I might ask for a few bob more and may or may not get it, I think that's probably the way you should have approached things this weekend.

[Soulsmith]

Regards Karl. A very bitter man at present!!!!

In the 1986 film 'Raw Deal' Arnie offers his distraught wife some quality advice - "you should not drink & bake"

My advice is don't "drink & type"

It doesn't work for me either.

Col

[Girthdevon]

In November I'm holding the first All-European (with the notable exception of Market Harborough) all nighter in the UK

Ady

Ady - we're in Europe - we are European I know where your coming from tho' - great idea

Girf

[Guest James Trouble]

A very good night, Joan played some nice stuff but Ginger especially had the party pumping and could certainly school any of the upstarts who fancy them selfs as an 'international soul playboy/girl'

And I got my number one want that I've been after for what seems like half a life time, which made it even better! And that tight arse Ady Croasdell made me pay less than I've been offering him every month for what must be getting on for 2 years. Shame on you Ady, you could have given it to the cleaners who had to deal with the aftermath that those uncouth northerners left behind on the dance floor.

I think the wages thing is interesting, but should be in small print. I've gone from DJing on the funk scene for a few hundred quid a set plus expensess to DJing on the northern scene, where I'm lucky to get £50. The big difference is there is normally no one in the funk club who can give the crowd what I can, but on the northern scene the room is normally full of folk with big collections and impressive knowledge AND who want to DJ. That's demand and supply. In my opinion there are probably only two or three DJs on the northern scene who could demand higher than £50 a set. If you don't like it, don't do it IMO

Edited August 14, 2006 by James Trouble

[Pete S]

I think there are many many people who would actually PAY to do a spot at a place like the 100 Club, let alone BE paid!

[Guest Marcelle]

I think that Karl & Joan have made some very valid points on here that unfortunlty have got lost in the "how much scenirio" ect.

They are both (& yes I could name others as we all could) INMO passionate, enthusiastic hard working "Top DJs" who I have had the pleasure & privaledge of not only working alongside NCS, but watching them develope as DJs. They have both travelled & DJ for "nothing" in many venues, so they have worked for love & they have worked for money.

As much as we can debate about DJs & Promoters "doing it for love versus doing for it for money" The cold facts are that being a DJ & a Promoter costs MONEY ... & for both parties to do either (DJ / Promote) money has to be generated from somewhere, (punters)

I do believe that when a DJ does a spot they are working, & as such should be paid a wage but I am also realistic in that Promoters need to make money not just on "that night" but over many nights to balance the books.

The "issue" is then on a good night do we pay extra to the DJ who worked that night, or do we pay extra to the DJs who have worked for a promoter over many "good & bad" nights extra ?

Being "new" to the promoting side it has always perplexed me the termanlogy that is used to describe DJs.

TOP for me is a quality, & a quality DJ is a person who delivers the goods, it shouldnt IMO be used to describe being "well known" (I know TOP & well known do go together sometimes)

IMO to deliver the goods means ....

being prepared to do the job & willingness to learn from other DJs .... so yes I do want to see DJs there well before thier spot, so that DJs are aware of what has been played, get a feel for the room as a different night in the same venue can be a very different "feel" To stay around after they have finished again this is about DJs "learning" .

I know that NCS in Manchester looked at how we could "bring in the punters" (cos without punters NO BODY will get paid) with known DJs but also encourage & support lesser known DJ to have the opportunity to play.

So that was when Chris decided that a warm up at Ducie Bridge would be one way of giving "lesser known DJs" a platform, to other venues aswell as ours. Steve did a tremendous job at Ducie for us. & it worked as I now see "lesser known DJs playing in more venues all over"

I dont know the answer to "how much do you pay DJs" as at times it does seem so different in "known get more then lesser known" & this in my experience hasnt always been "a little bit more" ... do they always deserve it ? No they dont. (maybe a consortium of DJs & Promoters should work together & a do pay structure, (yes I am serious, or would "soulies" see that be seen as to buisness minded)

So though Karl`s posting was "bull in china shop" he has given "us" the opportunity to talk about issues on the scene, that do actually effect EVERYBODY...

Marcelle xx

[Guest James Trouble]

It don't do it for the money.... never ever have done... i just love it that's all.

It's just a little insulting when you go all that way ... do the same work as the 'top name' DJ's and get paid othing for your trouble.

Ok ... this time Ginger did 30 mins more ... but usually you do the same hour.

But can i ask... when do you change from being a lesser named DJ to a big named DJ?

When you turn up 5 mins before your spot ... and then f*** off 5 mins after?

You did do well Joan, you played some nice records and I always enjoy any set I've caught of yours. But honestly, Ginger is a better DJ. Whether you like his records or not (I personally prefered Joan's), he is a dominant presence behind the decks and does more than just play 20 good records in some sort of order.

You go from being a 'lesser name' to a 'big name' when you control the dance floor like a Ginger and are not just a collector playing a few records.

That's not taking anything away from you, you did well, I'm just giving an opinion to the question you asked.

Did I say it was a top night?

Edited August 14, 2006 by James Trouble

[Jumpinjoan]

Joan, I'm sorry you were insulted by the money, as I said to Karl a small cheque is on the way to mollify you. If you consider £60 to be nothing, then you've obviously got a few more bob than me!

Ginger was booked because he has a great collection of super rare records, knows how to fill a floor in any circumstances and gives a dancefloor added momentum with whatever it is he bellows out over the mike. He had previous soul dos to DJ at, but still wanted to come down to the 100 Club to celebrate my birthday and also his car was stuck in traffic caused by a huge street fight in Camden on the way down. He left after his second spot because he'd had a very hard weekend with lots of gigs, is well over fifty and has had ill health so doesn't want to kill himself just to satisfy people that he is a "hard core" soul man.

In answer to your question, you change from being a lesser name DJ when you get gigs at famous venues, at all different types of venues (and still pack the floor) and when you learn to talk. There hasn't been a top name DJ on the Northern scene who hasn't talked, you may do it yet, but considering how much you rabbit off stage, I really think it's something you should try to do. You are probably on your way to becoming a big name DJ, judging by the sets I've seen you do, so stick at it, but try and take any small set-backs with some grace rather than having a go at fellow soul fans.

As a footnote, I recently did a 45 minute lecture (I'd rarely spoken in public and never for more than ten minutes before) on Northern Soul which was terrifying for me and I was paid peanuts. However it was something I wanted to do, pushed me to my limits and gave me great satisfaction. Now the next time I might ask for a few bob more and may or may not get it, I think that's probably the way you should have approached things this weekend.

Hi Ady,

It has never ever been about money for me... DID I SAY ANYTHING TO YOU AT CLEETHORPES WHEN I DIDN'T GET PAID ANYTHING?

NO I DIDN'T!

A thankyou would have been nice though!

I think it was probably this fact that contributed to Karl's first post.

Anyone who knows me knows i don't give a rats arse about the cash.... i do give a rats arse about taken advantage of though... although i have to admit to also taking that on the chin without saying anything... but that's just me.

I'm not interested in being a big name ... or even a lesser name.

For me it's the music.... that's what deserves all the credit imo... not the people putting the needle to them.

I'm trying not to let this spoil my spot on Saturday... which for me was probably one of the ones i've enjoyed doing the most in all my years on the soul scene..... with the best being Cleethorpes... funny enough!

Your bit about how much i rabbit off stage made me chuckle... and you're right maybe i should start speaking on the mic.... just something i've never done.

I'm quite happy being who i am on the scene... someone who loves to dance.... and rabbit.... a lot!!

PS: Please don't send a cheque Ady... that really would insult me!

[Lindsay]

When Nige Shaw did his set at the 100 a prouder and happier man couldnt have been found on the night... think HE really would have paid Ady for the priviledge of being there...it was one of two ambitions that he had left in his djing career...thanks to Ady he proved that he deserved to be there..well imo anyhow Don't think getting paid even came into it...was a bonus tho

[Pete S]

When Nige Shaw did his set at the 100 a prouder and happier man couldnt have been found on the night... think HE really would have paid Ady for the priviledge of being there...it was one of two ambitions that he had left in his djing career...thanks to Ady he proved that he deserved to be there..well imo anyhow Don't think getting paid even came into it...was a bonus tho

That's exactly what I meant - it would be like having an honour bestowed

[Jumpinjoan]

You did do well Joan, you played some nice records and I always enjoy any set I've caught of yours. But honestly, Ginger is a better DJ. Whether you like his records or not (I personally prefered Joan's), he is a dominant presence behind the decks and does more than just play 20 good records in some sort of order.

You go from being a 'lesser name' to a 'big name' when you control the dance floor like a Ginger and are not just a collector playing a few records.

That's not taking anything away from you, you did well, I'm just giving an opinion to the question you asked.

Did I say it was a top night?

Hi James,

I'm thinking maybe you have got me wrong here... i have no desire what so ever to be a 'big name' DJ... let alone one who control's a dancefloor.

I wasn't aware anybody could take control of a dancefloor.... surely people dance if they like the record that's being played... not because they're being controlled by the DJ?

Absolutely nothing a DJ says can make me get up and dance.... the only thing that makes me dance are the records they play.

So glad you enjoyed my little offering.... and thankyou for saying so... it's really great to look out and see people like yourself giving it big licks on the floor.... that's what it's all about.

[Soulsmith]

So though Karl`s posting was "bull in china shop" he has given "us" the opportunity to talk about issues on the scene, that do actually effect EVERYBODY...

Marcelle xx

Yes, but the price of freedom of religion, or of speech, or of the press, is that we must put up with a good deal of rubbish.

[Simsy]

I remember when we dj'd at the guest night back in Feb, Nick asking Ady if he wanted any admission money. Neither Nick or myself came from Preston to dj that night, but we were chuffed to be asked as were Dave and Nige (RIP).

I don't think rents on Oxford Street are cheap. I do think that the 100 Club allnighter is special in part because of it's longevity and a whole host of other reasons that make it unique for me. DJ'ing at this famous club is something I will never forget. I think to myself, Mick Jagger and Sid Vicious have stood on that stage and so have I! With this in mind and to be playing music you love to a the 100 Club crowd is not worth fifty quid, it's not worth three grand - It's priceless.

I understand (to some degree) some of the points raised in the above posts. But to come on here and talk about money, is all rather unpleasant. That's not what it's about. Or shouldn't be at least.

[Guest SteveC]

Yes, but the price of freedom of religion, or of speech, or of the press, is that we must put up with a good deal of rubbish.

Really don't think there's any need to go on about it in public anymore Col. Karls done the only thing possible to redeem himself and acted the gent and man in doing so. We all have our opinions on the situation but to rake up and criticise after apologies have been made just antagonises people even more - don't u think?

[Monique]

Well said Simsy!!

I 've been going since 1992 and this is the first time I've ever heard anything negative about the 100 club.I've never had a bad night there and I look forward to more.

Couldn't go on Saturday so can't comment on that.

Well done to Ady for providing years of fantastic allnighters

[Ady Croasdell]

There's some good points coming out now, particularly from Marcelle. I think debate is better than a row over something of this magnitude.

When I work out how much I'm going to pay a DJ, unless it's pre-arranged, I probably have a maximum and a minimum in the back of my mind as to how much it should be. Neither are vast sums of money but in my opinion they are worth having. On the night the factors that decide how much it will be will mainly come down to the size of the crowd and the costs of the night. On Saturday the costs were extra high. Subconciously factors like how much have I earnt / lost on other recent events, how skint I am and how grumpy/pissed I am will also affect it.

Unfortunately I don't think the Utopian dream of getting promoters together to set a pay scale is practical Marcelle. A tag wrestling match is more likely given the fraternity shown between some of us!

I've admitted that on Saturday with Joan I was on the tight side but I think the abuse I got was well out of order, a considered word would have done the trick. I also agree that I should have thanked Joan for the Cleethorpes spot but I couldn't be in the room at the time and there were that many things for me to organise over the weekend that I forgot about it when, and if, I saw Joan the next day, there were a lot of people there so I can't remember.

No problem with the cheque Joan, I'll donate it to the Soul Shack restoration fund so you North Westerners can continue to have a good soul radio station.

[Jumpinjoan]

No problem with the cheque Joan, I'll donate it to the Soul Shack restoration fund so you North Westerners can continue to have a good soul radio station.

If any charity is to benefit Ady... could it please be the RWANDA GROUP TRUST(reg: 1074656) ... a charity i have been working closely with for the last 5 years.

It helps the poorest of the poor in Rwanda... both Tutsi and Hutu.... and i'm sure anything you give them would do good things... a pound enables a child to attend school for a whole year!!

If you could send it to the address below that would be great.

JOSEPH W BAMBER

48 KENNINGTON ROAD

FULWOOD

PRESTON

PR2 8BT

I'm not being funny here but i'm sure the Soul Shack will raise plenty to keep it's doors open for a good while to come!

Thanks.

[Ady Croasdell]

OK, I'll split it, they're both deserving causes and I'd committed to the first one.

[Soulsmith]

Really don't think there's any need to go on about it in public anymore Col. Karls done the only thing possible to redeem himself and acted the gent and man in doing so. We all have our opinions on the situation but to rake up and criticise after apologies have been made just antagonises people even more - don't u think?

I think.

My quote was actually a philosophical statement attributed to Robert Jackson.

I thought it fitted into the debate OK, but was also good advice for reflecting on life in general.

Regards

Col.

[Guest NASHEE]

In November I'm holding the first All-European (with the notable exception of Market Harborough) all nighter in the UK

OK Ady, You have my complete attention....Who, where from?...

[Paul-s]

PS One of your party managed to pour a whole bottle of talc over the dancefloor which cost an extra £20 for the cleaners and jeopardises our chance of having an extended night down there again. If I give you the blokes name perhaps he will donate that to Joan's wages

.....That party member was Paul Sadot....shame to ruin that beer stained, fag trodden, uneven, pot marked, highly polished dance floor. Especially after all the preparation that had , obviously gone into it before hand. My apologies I will give joan the £20 , as part of the amount you obviously forgot to give her!!

Im really pleased to hear that you are offering, in your love of the soul scene, to travel hundreds of miles and not even ask for your expenses to be covered! Are you available now, because we could do with that type of support from YOU! Let me know when your free.....much appreciated. I hope other clubs take you up on this generous offer.

NEWS.....there is a world of 'soul' beyond London!! What pretentious egocentric rubbish comes out of the BIG SMOKE. YOU NEED TO GET OUT MORE....NOT JUST WHEN YOU ARE PAID TO DJ!! You really have absolutely no idea of what goes on in the small and brilliant clubs that move this scene along....Soul or Nothing, Greatstone ,( where many so called Big names cant' cut the mustard when told to play what they like, because they only play what they are supposed to like and seldom listen beyond that!!) Steve Ts wales niter!! Burnley, Newcastle etc. LAZY and Condecending is the only way to describe your attitude.

NEWS !! JOAN has a very big following in the North and you putting her on is not a favour to her.....ITS A FAVOR TO YOU! I think that covering someones expenses is the least a promoter should do. BUT as Adey has offered to reciprocate the favour Joan has done for the 100 club and dj at one of our events for £60, I think it is stupid to go on about it. Its obviously a mis-understanding.

Karl Rhodes is one of the most 'soulful' and caring people you could meet and I think he has spoken because he cares for Joan, as I do. As for Ginger packing the floor, he did, I like him....BUT JOAN did aswell and people seemed to like it!! I also had to listen to an hour of disco...cant remember who it was. CAN you get the playlists up??

I think if people are treated with dignity on this scene....we will all get along. BUT, when people presume, its an honour for you to DO their club and dont cover expenses, its wrong. I too have refused money on many occassions when a promoter loses out. BUT, I do that for people who support other events and the scene in general, not venue centric soulies.

I hope that beautiful floor recovers in time for the next 'Punk Rock' gig!

PAUL-S

Edited August 14, 2006 by paul-s

[Guest Marcelle]

I think debate is better than a row over something of this magnitude.

Ditto Ady ... always more productive than "destructive"

Unfortunately I don't think the Utopian dream of getting promoters together to set a pay scale is practical Marcelle. A tag wrestling match is more likely given the fraternity shown between some of us!

Maybe "mud wrestling" would be more entertaining & more profitable, I for one would love to see some DJs & Promoters in Lycra covered in mud

On a serious note I dont think its a Utopian Dream, for a group of adults working together for the benefit of "something" whatever that something is.

This happens in all walks of life professional or personal, what gets in the way of this happening on this scene is unfortuntly "personalities & egos"

There are some who work together in supporting each others venues (large or small) by doing thier best not to clash on nights, by putting out each others flyers ect. I dont see that as being Utopia I see that as being, practical, beneficial if we then carry that on into other areas, then maybe this scene would be less" about egos" & more about the CONTINUING development of it.

Maybe a way of "shattering those egotitical people" is by those that want the best for the scene is for them to work together localy & nationaly, in an open public way, rather than secretively.

I dont "change my beliefs or values in my "personal or professinal life" (I make mistakes) but there is an expectation that I change them when talking about "issues" to do with Soul.

Marcelle xx

[Guest]

Hi Ady,

It has never ever been about money for me... DID I SAY ANYTHING TO YOU AT CLEETHORPES WHEN I DIDN'T GET PAID ANYTHING?

NO I DIDN'T!

A thankyou would have been nice though!

I think it was probably this fact that contributed to Karl's first post.

Anyone who knows me knows i don't give a rats arse about the cash.... i do give a rats arse about taken advantage of though... although i have to admit to also taking that on the chin without saying anything... but that's just me.

I'm not interested in being a big name ... or even a lesser name.

For me it's the music.... that's what deserves all the credit imo... not the people putting the needle to them.

I'm trying not to let this spoil my spot on Saturday... which for me was probably one of the ones i've enjoyed doing the most in all my years on the soul scene..... with the best being Cleethorpes... funny enough!

Your bit about how much i rabbit off stage made me chuckle... and you're right maybe i should start speaking on the mic.... just something i've never done.

I'm quite happy being who i am on the scene... someone who loves to dance.... and rabbit.... a lot!!

PS: Please don't send a cheque Ady... that really would insult me!

GOOD FOR YOU, WELL DONE, TOP DJ MEANS SOMEONE WHO PLAYS GOOD RECORDS FOR NOT ONLY THEMSELVES BUT FOR EVERYONE ELSE TO ENJOY TOO

[Guest Baz]

NEWS.....there is a world of 'soul' beyond London!! What pretentious egocentric rubbish comes out of the BIG SMOKE. YOU NEED TO GET OUT MORE....NOT JUST WHEN YOU ARE PAID TO DJ!! You really have absolutely no idea of what goes on in the small and brilliant clubs that move this scene along....Soul or Nothing, Greatstone ,( where many so called Big names cant' cut the mustard when told to play what they like, because they only play what they are supposed to like and seldom listen beyond that!!) Steve Ts wales niter!! Burnley, Newcastle etc. LAZY and Condecending is the only way to describe your attitude.

I think thats a little unfair Paul, so when was the last time the whole of Soul or Nothing or the Greatstone ventured down to london or out of the north west? its a very unfair way to put it, The 100 club is one of them venues that moves this scene along, proberly the one club that moves the scene along more than any other in the country, and has done so over 26 years, i think your going way off in a tangent that will only bring more hurt to Joan and Ady .

Yeah its a little grotty in there, yeah the floor is shite, never stops any one dancing on it though, that floor is part of the fixtures and fittings that make the 100 club the greatest all nighter in the world!

P.S dont want to start a london v north v tanks v airoplanes ect, i used the greatstone and SON as examples as you mentioned them, nothing against any of them, you know that

[Ady Croasdell]

.....That party member was Paul Sadot....shame to ruin that beer stained, fag trodden, uneven, pot marked, highly polished dance floor. Especially after all the preparation that had , obviously gone into it before hand. My apologies I will give joan the £20 , as part of the amount you obviously forgot to give her!!

Good, I suggested that

Im really pleased to hear that you are offering, in your love of the soul scene, to travel hundreds of miles and not even ask for your expenses to be covered! Are you available now, because we could do with that type of support from YOU! Let me know when your free.....much appreciated. I hope other clubs take you up on this generous offer.

I didn't offer that, I said that I've been happy to do it in the past and i will do again. I wouldn't be interested in DJing for you but I will do for others when I can.

NEWS.....there is a world of 'soul' beyond London!! What pretentious egocentric rubbish comes out of the BIG SMOKE. YOU NEED TO GET OUT MORE....NOT JUST WHEN YOU ARE PAID TO DJ!! You really have absolutely no idea of what goes on in the small and brilliant clubs that move this scene along....Soul or Nothing, Greatstone ,( where many so called Big names cant' cut the mustard when told to play what they like, because they only play what they are supposed to like and seldom listen beyond that!!) Steve Ts wales niter!! Burnley, Newcastle etc. LAZY and Condecending is the only way to describe your attitude.

I was at it before you and I'll be there after you, I've done a lot of travelling and attended hundreds of venues, some I've DJed at, some just for the fun of it.

NEWS !! JOAN has a very big following in the North and you putting her on is not a favour to her.....ITS A FAVOR TO YOU! I think that covering someones expenses is the least a promoter should do. BUT as Adey has offered to reciprocate the favour Joan has done for the 100 club and dj at one of our events for £60, I think it is stupid to go on about it. Its obviously a mis-understanding.

No misunderstanding, you're just halucinating

Karl Rhodes is one of the most 'soulful' and caring people you could meet and I think he has spoken because he cares for Joan, as I do.

He seems a decent bloke, I can't speak for you though.

As for Ginger packing the floor, he did, I like him....BUT JOAN did aswell and people seemed to like it!! I also had to listen to an hour of disco...cant remember who it was. CAN you get the playlists up??

I think if people are treated with dignity on this scene....we will all get along. BUT, when people presume, its an honour for you to DO their club and dont cover expenses, its wrong. I too have refused money on many occassions when a promoter loses out. BUT, I do that for people who support other events and the scene in general, not venue centric soulies.

Good for you.

I'd better not book you then.

I think I do treat people with dignity, I did cover expenses unless she's driving a sports car and her passengers don't give her petrol money. Your £20 should put her in profit!

Ady Croasdell

I hope that beautiful floor recovers in time for the next 'Punk Rock' gig!

PAUL-S

[Simsy]

I hope that beautiful floor recovers in time for the next 'Punk Rock' gig!

PAUL-S

No that all ended in the seventies Paul.

Yeah its a little grotty in there,

Earthy Baz, the word is earthy ...

[Paul-s]

I think thats a little unfair Paul, so when was the last time the whole of Soul or Nothing or the Greatstone ventured down to london or out of the north west? its a very unfair way to put it, The 100 club is one of them venues that moves this scene along, proberly the one club that moves the scene along more than any other in the country, and has done so over 26 years, i think your going way off in a tangent that will only bring more hurt to Joan and Ady .

Yeah its a little grotty in there, yeah the floor is shite, never stops any one dancing on it though, that floor is part of the fixtures and fittings that make the 100 club the greatest all nighter in the world!

P.S dont want to start a london v north v tanks v airoplanes ect, i used the greatstone and SON as examples as you mentioned them, nothing against any of them, you know that

I was'nt saying that the 100 club does'nt and has'nt moved the scene along. I was a regular until I was banned (not going into that)...thats the only reason I stopped. I am saying , dont assume its the only one that does. The 'whole' of any 'lot' is never really going to venture out, but I personally go anywhere that I feel offers the values of the scene I love. Cardiff, Lifeline, 100 club, and I have supported and tried many, many events at least once, so I can make my own decision......not my own assumption!

I merely used the analogy of 100 club, or at least Adey, assuming that it is a great honour to play there!! To play at any club that has taken the trouble to listen and invite you to play for them, is an honour....not just the 100 club. We do a lot of reciprocal favours amongst the smaller clubs who love and support each others music, not taking a fee, djing for each other for free.....thats how it should be. BUT Adey, as of yet, has'nt offered to do that for any us.......so why should he expect JOAN to do it for him. If you cant cover the guests expenses for djing, tell them before.....its polite and respectful and leaves the dj with a choice. Especially if they have a 500mile round trip. If we cant pay a dj properly...we tell them and they can make a choice. It seems simple to me

If the floors so shite....why is the night threatened by a bit of talc!! It was 'sarcasm' BAZ!!

I seem to have read a lot of posts saying how great JOANS spot was.....it was and thats because she cares and has a passion for the 'soul' scene. Its not about the money....Its about the assumption that she should'nt be informed before. I know her and she still would have done it!!

There is no North South divide....but there is the 'uber club' mentality.......ALL clubs and nights can be 'influential' in their own way, given the right atttitude and desire and support...

PAUL-s

Edited August 14, 2006 by paul-s

[Paul-s]

No that all ended in the seventies Paul.

Need to be more eclectic in your music mate........many Punk bands still about....actually reforming because of demand......Maybe you have'nt noticed the influence on a lot of todays newer groups....Arctics etc..

PAUL-s

Edited August 14, 2006 by paul-s