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Royalpunkness

Where Are All The Bootlegs/reissues Coming From

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Unbelievable how many bootlegs are turning up these days, even on records that original U.S. issues would cost you in the range $30 to $100. Any idea who the main culprit is in pressing up these bootlegs? Laws here in U.S. are very strict about copyright holders and virtually every pressing plant in the U.S. will not press a record unless you can prove that you are the legal rights owner. So that being said are they being pressed in UK/Europe?

I know there are some legitimate re-issues but there are a serious amount of out and out bootlegs that are using original label designs, original matrix numbers appearing on labels,etc.

Does UK/Europe not have the same rights laws as U.S. Since the Sonny Bono act (Copyright Terms Extension) virtually no music made/published in the last 100 years is public domain and thus its use/reproduction are covered under this act and considered pirated and punishable by fines/inprisonment if found guilty.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act

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The difference is:

 

1. There's no real market in the US. Otherwise rest assured, the bootleggers would be at it there too. :yes:

 

2. The US doesn't suffer from a legion of 55 year olds desperate to relive their youth  by standing behind some cheap turntables for an hour so bluffing their way.  :lol:

 

Regards,

 

Dave

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There's no one as politically connected or determined as Sonny Bono was to push a law like that through in this country. I don't think anyone cares very much about boots of old US records in the UK and Europe to be honest.

 

Apart from us lot on here. :(

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Plenty of Eastern Europe pressing plants with dubious or no copyright laws in the countries to choose from on the web, you can get anything pressed up and pay via paypal

 

cheers Sutty

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That outta sight seem to be pressing everything, is it all legit? I'm not so sure it is due to the sheer scale of it. Can't believe the crazy prices some people are paying when you can get some quality original records for much cheaper or of the equivelant price.

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Plenty of Eastern Europe pressing plants with dubious or no copyright laws in the countries to choose from on the web, you can get anything pressed up and pay via paypal

 

cheers Sutty

 

You are spot on Paul, most people know who does those R & B presses, same person(s) who did all the psych and freakbeat ones, and they are pressed in Eastern Europe.

Most people also know where the majority of UK Northern Soul bootlegs come from.

I'm as bad as them, I buy some of them.

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That outta sight seem to be pressing everything, is it all legit? I'm not so sure it is due to the sheer scale of it. Can't believe the crazy prices some people are paying when you can get some quality original records for much cheaper or of the equivelant price.

Hi there I believe the outta sight stuff is bang on legit , I think the distributors ( passion ) are too big to make mistakes as I believe they work with large media company's and television and such like. A lot of ( most ) have a licenced by who ever owns the rights printed on the label , further more large retailers like Juno records sell them and I think they double check everything they sell to maintain their reputation. I could be wrong but I think passion / outta sight are ok. Regards , Simon.

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Passion are legit, juno sell anything that comes to market, theyre not in a position to be able to check that kind of thing even if they wanted to

You surprise me there Sutty I thought Juno were ultra clean still we live and learn. the reason I said it was at some stage last year they stopped selling Pharrell Williams with Velvet hammer on the B side as I think there was a copyright problem with the label design being close to Adidas's design . As soon as it was sorted they started selling again. So I assumed Juno to be of impeccable character , regards , S.

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You surprise me there Sutty I thought Juno were ultra clean still we live and learn. the reason I said it was at some stage last year they stopped selling Pharrell Williams with Velvet hammer on the B side as I think there was a copyright problem with the label design being close to Adidas's design . As soon as it was sorted they started selling again. So I assumed Juno to be of impeccable character , regards , S.

 

If it's Pharrell with Velvet Hammer on the other side, it'a a boot anyway

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You surprise me there Sutty I thought Juno were ultra clean still we live and learn. the reason I said it was at some stage last year they stopped selling Pharrell Williams with Velvet hammer on the B side as I think there was a copyright problem with the label design being close to Adidas's design . As soon as it was sorted they started selling again. So I assumed Juno to be of impeccable character , regards , S.

 

Simon, I'd agree with Paul on this re JUNO. They can't possibly tell, and I've seen some well moody stuff on there like Little John Just wait and see. 

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Passion are legit, juno sell anything that comes to market, theyre not in a position to be able to check that kind of thing even if they wanted to

 

I agree - Juno will sell anything until they get some heat and that Les/Passion are legit

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You surprise me there Sutty I thought Juno were ultra clean still we live and learn. the reason I said it was at some stage last year they stopped selling Pharrell Williams with Velvet hammer on the B side as I think there was a copyright problem with the label design being close to Adidas's design . As soon as it was sorted they started selling again. So I assumed Juno to be of impeccable character , regards , S.

Wasn't that Adidas issue with the label design, not the music content? You are more likely to be sued for artwork on than copyrighted music, the corporates are really hot on their logos. Those 'Adidas' 45s, I'd be very surprised if they're licensed in any way at all, there's a load of them out. There's tons of boots not just on juno but all over the net in all genres and have been for years, you can walk into any new record store and pick out 'reissue' look-a-like albums that are mastered from cd with scanned covers in all genres, the whole vinyl bootleg retail industry is rife (so unfair for us to single out juno). I mean look at the 'lookalike' disco 12" 'reissue' sections out there...

 

cheers Sutty

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You are spot on Paul, most people know who does those R & B presses, same person(s) who did all the psych and freakbeat ones, and they are pressed in Eastern Europe.

Most people also know where the majority of UK Northern Soul bootlegs come from.

I'm as bad as them, I buy some of them.

"Most people also know where the majority of UK Northern Soul bootlegs come from."

depends which period you are referring to,Pete.... :wink:

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You are spot on Paul, most people know who does those R & B presses, same person(s) who did all the psych and freakbeat ones, and they are pressed in Eastern Europe.

Most people also know where the majority of UK Northern Soul bootlegs come from.

I'm as bad as them, I buy some of them.

Most folk?? i think with 15,000 members and many more guests there are many thousands who dont know.... Tell us please....

 

Maybe blame promoters who let these sons on satan play at events up and down this country....

Edited by little-stevie

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Most folk?? i think with 15,000 members and many more guests there are many thousands who dont know.... Tell us please....

 

Maybe blame promoters who let these sons on satan play at events up and down this country....

Are we still talking about the man who has yet to find his Eldarado.

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There's a bloke blatantly advertising them on Facebook, even put a spambot ad on our page...for about 3 seconds. Steve something from Leicester. Ad implied that he made them. The r&b ones are made by Jessie Birdsall who posts on here as Stompin Sevens. There's so many now that I think it's time to stop pussyfooting around the issue. Make it unacceptable to make them, sell them and especially play them in clubs.

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There's a bloke blatantly advertising them on Facebook, even put a spambot ad on our page...for about 3 seconds. Steve something from Leicester. Ad implied that he made them. The r&b ones are made by Jessie Birdsall who posts on here as Stompin Sevens. There's so many now that I think it's time to stop pussyfooting around the issue. Make it unacceptable to make them, sell them and especially play them in clubs.

To outlaw these would put many up and coming 55 year old djs out of work....... Have a heart.....

 

peace x

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Maybe blame promoters who let these sons on satan play at events up and down this country....

 

But then where would these 'promoters' play their boots the following weekend. One weekend a 'promoter' next weekend a 'DJ'. :lol:

 

Ere... when did that Godawful word 'promoter' sneak up on us anyway? :lol:

 

D

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There's a bloke blatantly advertising them on Facebook, even put a spambot ad on our page...for about 3 seconds. Steve something from Leicester. Ad implied that he made them. The r&b ones are made by Jessie Birdsall who posts on here as Stompin Sevens. There's so many now that I think it's time to stop pussyfooting around the issue. Make it unacceptable to make them, sell them and especially play them in clubs.

I dont disagree with the sentiment but perhaps a dose of reality is needed. Bootlegs give some buyers satisfaction, often because they are usually unable to obtain an original (cost or rarity), I would hate to think only rich or serious collectors were entitled to listen to some tunes on vinyl. They bootleg buyers may wish to maintain the original media rather than CD or MP3 download, it is only when the bootleg is played from behind the decks that frustration is expressed by collectors. Even if production of bootlegs were stopped then someone would complain about reissues being played so you cant satisfy everyone.

The promoters book the DJ's so they are the ones responsible for 'Billy bootleg' behind the decks and not the DJ actually spinning. Perhaps pressure needs to be applied to promoters rather than criticising the DJ's; but if the audience doesn't care about OVO then you are bashing your head against a brick wall. :dash2:

Atb

Stu

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Yeah well, without getting into the whole debate, the more people who dont tolerate it, and who make a stand against it, the more outcast the bootleg boys might become, and the more informed the supposedly uncaring audience might become about the integrity of the djs and about how the practice is at odds with the very spirit that the frauds are trying to emulate.

and if not that, then at least when any dj puts a boot on, pretending its a real record, then hopefully they'll know that someone, somewhere is directing a

post-3773-0-34416500-1424124550_thumb.jp

right at them :-)

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 There's so many now that I think it's time to stop pussyfooting around the issue. Make it unacceptable to make them, sell them and especially play them in clubs.

The problem is that once things are out of copyright, anything's fair game and legal, they're not even bootlegs. 50 years ago used to seem like a LONG time ago, but now... well, 1965 and earlier means there's plenty of titles in the queue for booting.

 

I like your stance though. It's like prostitution laws - in this country it's the people providing the service who get prosecuted, in Scandinavia it's the end user that gets prosecuted which seems far more effective tackling the problem...

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Simon, I'd agree with Paul on this re JUNO. They can't possibly tell, and I've seen some well moody stuff on there like Little John Just wait and see. 

Hi there Steve lad hope you're ok I was just a little surprised that a big outfit would bother with obvious boots.

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Wasn't that Adidas issue with the label design, not the music content? You are more likely to be sued for artwork on than copyrighted music, the corporates are really hot on their logos. Those 'Adidas' 45s, I'd be very surprised if they're licensed in any way at all, there's a load of them out. There's tons of boots not just on juno but all over the net in all genres and have been for years, you can walk into any new record store and pick out 'reissue' look-a-like albums that are mastered from cd with scanned covers in all genres, the whole vinyl bootleg retail industry is rife (so unfair for us to single out juno). I mean look at the 'lookalike' disco 12" 'reissue' sections out there...

 

cheers Sutty

To tell the truth sutty I had a few Pharrells last year from the distributor and it seemed a legit set up . There was an invoice with a VAT number and full address and company number on the invoice so I didn't think I'd have had anything to worry about , especially as , at the time there were loads on ebay. You'd have thought Pharrell's company would have jumped on it and dragged them to court , still there you go life's a funny old thing. I always thought that bootleggers were a sort of back ally cash only type affair but obviously no one seems to give a fukc .

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Hi there Steve lad hope you're ok I was just a little surprised that a big outfit would bother with obvious boots.

 

Hi Simon, hope you are well…..JUNO is a good outfit, but they just can't tell what is what there is so much stuff each week.

They don't bother with obvious boots but I think some slip through. 

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Same old, same old.

 

Why in 2015 is there a market for bootleg vinyl?

 

Back in the 70's vinyl was the most common format for listening to music, every home had at least one record player. So it kind of made sense for bootleggers to press up records. Today though it's completely different. If you don't have, can't locate, can't afford or want the original record there are so many ways to listen to the music, most of which don't cost a penny.

 

If you want to play a tune at home that you don't own an original vinyl copy of then you can buy a legit CD, you can download either legitimately or illegally. But you don't need a bootleg record.

 

If you're DJing, then it's simple if you don't own it on a real record then you can't play it. You may feel it's unfair, you may feel like throwing your toys out of the pram. But tough you still can't play it.

 

Unless of course, in a fit of pique at the injustice of it all, you and your div mates set up your own do and play bootlegs to each other. And it seems that this is what has unfortunately happened all over the country.

 

Stop all the bootleggers. Make it a thing of shame to be seen playing bootlegs. It already should be.

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The problem is that once things are out of copyright, anything's fair game and legal, they're not even bootlegs. 50 years ago used to seem like a LONG time ago, but now... well, 1965 and earlier means there's plenty of titles in the queue for booting.

 

I like your stance though. It's like prostitution laws - in this country it's the people providing the service who get prosecuted, in Scandinavia it's the end user that gets prosecuted which seems far more effective tackling the problem...

The EU stopped it at 31/12/1962 so anything first commercially pressed after that is illegal in Europe.

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You surprise me there Sutty I thought Juno were ultra clean still we live and learn. the reason I said it was at some stage last year they stopped selling Pharrell Williams with Velvet hammer on the B side as I think there was a copyright problem with the label design being close to Adidas's design . As soon as it was sorted they started selling again. So I assumed Juno to be of impeccable character , regards , S.

Juno have quite a few booties now- Mel Britt for £4 etc

 

I love Booties- keep em coming

 

Outta Sight provide a great service and don't belong in this thread at all

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If you're DJing, then it's simple if you don't own it on a real record then you can't play it. You may feel it's unfair, you may feel like throwing your toys out of the pram. But tough you still can't play it.

 

 

 

Exactly, if you haven't got the records don't pretend to be a DJ………. end of

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Juno have quite a few booties now- Mel Britt for £4 etc

 

I love Booties- keep em coming

 

Outta Sight provide a great service and don't belong in this thread at all

 

As someone who never buys boots (I did buy some when I was very young and naïve) I don't understand the appeal.

 

Serious question, why do you buy them?

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Here's a thing. Last Sunday I went to a 60th in Derby , Lorrain Silver performed live and there was a ska group on later. A local guy provided the music with his phone and some boots. To be fare only a few of us in there were regular northern soul attendees , the rest were older wheel and torch folk who hadn't seen each other for a long time. From four in the afternoon until gone twelve the dance floor was packed , I spoke to a few of these guys about originals verses boots , most were ex collectors and had British type collections  It seemed that for them it was a great day out and the attitude seemed to be " When you get our age does it really matter ? so long as you have a good time " . Last night I went to the second part of Carls 60th which was interesting for me as there were around 20 folk in there most over 65 and again I brought the subject up , all of them were not interested they love the music but seem to be more concerned with how many of them had died in the last year and how many were ill with cancer or something. three men and one woman buy the odd boot off ebay as " it's nice to have a record "  seemed to be the collective thought . Any views on this "older type attitude " ? Regards Simon.

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Another interesting point is trying to work out just how many physical units of bootlegs / reissues exist in the world. Outta sight have well over 100 titles and I understand do a run of 500 copies , not including their r-n-b and modern portfolio so you're looking at maybe 6000 records there . There has to be 2500 copies of pow wow ( Jazzman did 500 ) plus the three runs done on double shot ( 1500 ) plus the look a like boots ( unknown quantity } Lost summer love on casino classics although a legit re issue sold over 25,000 ( seen by many as not original ) . This probably means taking all types of soul ( r-n-b / modern classic ) into consideration around a quarter of a million units floating around the world . This not taking into consideration the European boots such as Victor Knight ect and the deep soul and funk things. I really can't see how it's going to stop as it's just too big now . Trading standards are too busy looking for fake tobacco . perfume and illegal fireworks and dangerous toys  and getting into court with someone who doesn't care about prison and won't pay a fine is a waste of money. For a lot of criminals the courts are just an inconvenience and won't stop them .

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As someone who never buys boots (I did buy some when I was very young and naïve) I don't understand the appeal.

 

Serious question, why do you buy them?

 

Do we have to, I've explained this a thousand times.  I don't know why other people buy them, but I buy them when I've sold an original but still want to play the record at home now and again.

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I've got a couple on 45 that weren't previously issued.

I've no objection to them really.

As previously said some people prefer vinyl and can't afford originals. Most don't dj with them. You can choose not to attend non-OVO venues.

If you're gonna complain about bootlegs then don't sell them, from any era, or you may come across as hypocritical.

ROD

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It's unreal the amount of boots that are out there and the attitudes to OVO on the likes of Facebook are "it doesn't matter what the format is"

I think this is partly due to an influx of people who have only recently got into soul/Northern Soul so they don't fully understand and appreciate OVO. It's nice to know that there's a fair few of us younguns who wil only play/collect OVO as I've discussed it several times with people my age. I just feel anybody can go onto eBay, buy a few top 500 pressings and start a night. It's also a bit of an insult if you've been collecting for a long time, spent a lot of time, effort and money for some one to turn up with the same records but copies of. The other thing I don't understand is if the format doesn't matter, or you're not interested in OVO, why be interested in vinyl full stop?! Just download them. Confused.com

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why be interested in vinyl full stop?! Just download them. Confused.com

 

I first put a record on when I was 2 in 1962. Since then I've put a million on.  Why would I swap that for an mp3, it's about the whole experience of taking a record out of it's sleeve, putting it on the deck, or in the old days, putting it on the auto changer and watching it drop, and the amazing sight of the arm touching down on the edge of the record and then...music comes out of it!  When you grew up with that, nothing will ever substitute it.  Playing a record is an experience, listening to a record from an mp3 is just nothing in comparison.

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Pete, I was asking that with regards to the regular comments of "format doesn't matter" predominantly on the likes of Facebook. Of the format doesn't matter then why bother with vinyl full stop. I also said it in relation to those not interested in OVO. They're usually against OVO branding others snobs as they're stood in there Fred Perry Polo that cost them £50. Bet they wouldn't be seen dead in a fake off the market though. Hypocrites!

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Unbelievable how many bootlegs are turning up these days, even on records that original U.S. issues would cost you in the range $30 to $100. Any idea who the main culprit is in pressing up these bootlegs? Laws here in U.S. are very strict about copyright holders and virtually every pressing plant in the U.S. will not press a record unless you can prove that you are the legal rights owner. So that being said are they being pressed in UK/Europe?

I know there are some legitimate re-issues but there are a serious amount of out and out bootlegs that are using original label designs, original matrix numbers appearing on labels,etc.

Does UK/Europe not have the same rights laws as U.S. Since the Sonny Bono act (Copyright Terms Extension) virtually no music made/published in the last 100 years is public domain and thus its use/reproduction are covered under this act and considered pirated and punishable by fines/inprisonment if found guilty.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act

 

Might be missing the point here, but you seem to be saying that because bootlegging is ilegal in the USA, then the pressing is being done elsewhere. I thought that your country had a long and noble tradition of breaking the law when it came to making money from ilegal practices. You even organised it into syndicates didn't you? :)

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Pete, I was asking that with regards to the regular comments of "format doesn't matter" predominantly on the likes of Facebook. Of the format doesn't matter then why bother with vinyl full stop. I also said it in relation to those not interested in OVO. They're usually against OVO branding others snobs as they're stood in there Fred Perry Polo that cost them £50. Bet they wouldn't be seen dead in a fake off the market though. Hypocrites!

 

The trouble is you are always going to get people who are into the Northern scene by differing degrees, I know tons of people who have been on or are still on the Northern scene but never bothered to even collect records, they just got something else from it.  So you can understand why for them, going out, meeting people and having a dance is more important than what label or even format a record is played off.  

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.......... Just download them. Confused.com

I went to this site to download some tracks but its an insurance site, can you please not give out misleading information.

 

Thank you. :D

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Do we have to, I've explained this a thousand times.  I don't know why other people buy them, but I buy them when I've sold an original but still want to play the record at home now and again.

 

Awww go on Pete, once more. You know it's like groundhog day on here. :thumbsup:

 

You're right though, I know your reason. I wonder if Stephen has a different reason though?

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I recently been trying to replace some titles I had stolen and build up sets of "Legit" UK issues, I am STAGGERED by the amount of Bootlegs on E Bay, things I have never seen as bootlegs nor could I see what possible market there is for them ? An avalanche of bootlegs, who's done Bobby Hutton Lend a hand on UK ABC bootleg ? mind blowing !  

Edited by Rob Wigley

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Awww go on Pete, once more. You know it's like groundhog day on here. :thumbsup:

 

You're right though, I know your reason. I wonder if Stephen has a different reason though?

 

He is right about Outtasite though, I think their back catalogue is one of the best ever for a UK label.  And I've been able to replace a lot of records I sold via them (Dynamics, Jerry Jackson, Cool Off etc)

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I recently been trying to replace some titles I had stolen and build up sets of "Legit" UK issues, I am STAGGERED by the amount of Bootlegs on E Bay, things I have never seen as bootlegs nor could I see what possible market there is for them ? An avalanche of bootlegs, who's done Bobby Hutton Lend a hand on UK ABC bootleg ? mind blowing !  

 

See that sort of thing doesn't make sense, it's only a tenner anyway so why boot it?  

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Who runs Out a sight ?

 

And why do these companies insist on look a like labels. There was another one mentioned on here a few days back - Above Board - who are re-issuing TK product. The first one is Milton Wright - Keep It Up on a look a like Alston label.

 

Why can't they just put them out with their own label designs.

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And why do these companies insist on look a like labels. There was another one mentioned on here a few days back - Above Board - who are re-issuing TK product. The first one is Milton Wright - Keep It Up on a look a like Alston label.

 

Why can't they just put them out with their own label designs.

 

Outtasite look great and have a star with their logo on the label so there's no mistaking..

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