The other day whilst looking for a certain record out of my collection,  I came across The Wrong Side of Town  by The Four Vandals ( Steve Brookstein).  I had bought it a few years ago when it was one of the most requested records played out on the scene.  I put it on my turntable and thought to myself, you know what,  this ain't a bad record. I think over the years we have all read of the deception by Ian Levine, but I do think that now is the time to give it a spin again.what do you think( and no swearing ) Rod

Edited February 8, 201411 yr by Rodders22

Exodus was a big Wigan main room spin on pre-release LP I think, I even saw a couple of people have it on EMIDISCS when they didn't put it out as a 45.  This is the same period as The Night, Weak Spot etc.  A 4 week wonder.  Confusing because on his LP he had a track called Northern Dancer I think, which they did issue as a single, but nobody was interested in.

 

Biddu had a hit with Summer of 42, UK Epic records, Year ?  Northern Dancer was the B side,

 

Bet you could put a year to it Pete.  

Biddu had a hit with Summer of 42, UK Epic records, Year ?  Northern Dancer was the B side,

 

Bet you could put a year to it Pete.  

 

75

Biddu's half baked UK disco efforts were a lot better than WSOT……Biddu did "Nothern dancer" after a visit to Wigan I heard….. A mine of useless information me! 

Biddu's half baked UK disco efforts were a lot better than WSOT……Biddu did "Nothern dancer" after a visit to Wigan I heard….. A mine of useless information me! 

 

Like this?

 

So what are the thoughts on 'Solid ground'? again Levine penned and produced.

tis all to easy to forget the context, Four v's was played alongside this,

 

 

Linda Lloyd, betty swan, Spinners- 'dont want to fall...' even Nolan Porter, lots of commercial sounding tunes around at the time as the scene became, ahem reinvigorated. Most I loved at the time, some sound shite now, but at least there were fresh plays in the main room. 

So what are the thoughts on 'Solid ground'? again Levine penned and produced.

Best ignored like virtually everything else the egomaniac has corrupted. He was a DJ and a pretty innovative one at that early in his career but lost the plot in the Highland Room believing disco to be the next best lucrative thing. Pure laziness and greed that fractured the scene and held it back. Ian Levine is now a mere footnote in the history of the soul music and the less we hear about him and his novice DIY syntho-pop, the better for all concerned.

Best ignored like virtually everything else the egomaniac has corrupted. He was a DJ and a pretty innovative one at that early in his career but lost the plot in the Highland Room believing disco to be the next best lucrative thing. Pure laziness and greed that fractured the scene and held it back. Ian Levine is now a mere footnote in the history of the soul music and the less we hear about him and his novice DIY syntho-pop, the better for all concerned.

Sorry but i have to disagree, Ian maybe introduced a new chapter into the scene (and like it or lump it it's here to stay). But i think that the scene is better for this.

Sorry but i have to disagree, Ian maybe introduced a new chapter into the scene (and like it or lump it it's here to stay). But i think that the scene is better for this.

If the new chapter was 70's newies that have stood the test of time, good records such as the Carstairs, I'll go along with that - if the chapter is about quasi-Eurovision song contest poppy-soul tailor-made rip-offs then the scene is no better off, indeed, the complete opposite...

ATB

tis all to easy to forget the context, Four v's was played alongside this,

 

 

Linda Lloyd, betty swan, Spinners- 'dont want to fall...' even Nolan Porter, lots of commercial sounding tunes around at the time as the scene became, ahem reinvigorated. Most I loved at the time, some sound shite now, but at least there were fresh plays in the main room. 

 

For me this was a low point in the history of the scene, suddenly places full, but full of handbaggers and civilians trying to recapture their youth. It all became very commercial again....."Wake up to the sunshine girl"? - "Wake up and smell the coffee" more like..... Cack of the highest order, it's not even as good as "Love hussle" a Wigan bottomfeeder by Tony Hatch!!!

Edited February 11, 201411 yr by Steve G

For me this was a low point in the history of the scene, suddenly places full, but full of handbaggers and civilians trying to recapture their youth. It all became very commercial again....."Wake up to the sunshine girl"? - "Wake up and smell the coffee" more like..... Cack of the highest order, it's not even as good as "Love hussle" a Wigan bottomfeeder by Tony Hatch!!!

 

Ok, "Wigan bottomfeeder" is definitely a new addition to my northern soul dictionary ! Brilliant !

Well thats the feeling of the Soul Collecter's out there so far, But what about the punters and Dances that made this Record massive at the time? They can't all have been wrong. In Gingers words out of his book; Quote. When I heard it,there was no mistake it did have Quality,I knew it would go down well and for that reason I was Interested:  Oh and For myself I only hold Ginger in the highest esteem.   Rod

I'd say play it again, I think it's great to dance to. I know the history behind it, and I don't really care. I know some of the early posts say there are far better records that could be played, which is probably true, however it's also true that far worse records are still being played.

 

tis all to easy to forget the context, Four v's was played alongside this,

 

 

Linda Lloyd, betty swan, Spinners- 'dont want to fall...' even Nolan Porter, lots of commercial sounding tunes around at the time as the scene became, ahem reinvigorated. Most I loved at the time, some sound shite now, but at least there were fresh plays in the main room.

 Yep..........joey delorenzo...utter crap,but as i,ve said so are loads of legit tunes....tommy and the derbys for instance...........so i,m keeping my minty white demo of the four vandals

If the new chapter was 70's newies that have stood the test of time, good records such as the Carstairs, I'll go along with that -

ATB

This is exactly what i meant, although i know that Pete Smith will disagree with me lol

I know there has a lot of bad things been said about Mr Levine, but when I used to go to the Mecca, along with the other DJs there such as Colin Curtis and the like, he was one of the Gods to the people who travelled many miles to listen to their music. We weren't bothered what they were, all we knew back then is that they played the tunes that we wanted to hear.

Also when I first heard 'Solid Ground' I honestly had no idea whatsoever that is was a Levine production, and loved it from the word go. I wasn't made aware that it was his until a friend of mine handed me a Levine productions CD with it on. Which just proves to me anyway, if you hear a tune and you like it, and it works, it doesn't matter who it is by, and to some, finding out who it is by, fires up the discrimination.

Also, although the majority was shite, Mr Levine was largely responsible for the 'High Energy' scene. As I say, shite in the whole (with a couple of exceptions) but massive in it's day to millions of clubbers worldwide.

 

Just my opinion

Edited February 12, 201411 yr by Northern Soul UK

This is exactly what i meant, although i know that Pete Smith will disagree with me lol

 

I do think there were lots of great 70's Northern sounds, I really do.  I don't think Carstairs was one of them though.  

I don,t like 'Standing on solid ground' but I do like 'Holding on tighter' by Vivienne Courtland,which I think is an Ian Levine production.

75

Tuesday.........March 27th...................about tea-time!

 

So what are the thoughts on 'Solid ground'? again Levine penned and produced.

Total and utter shite!!!!

"Penned and produced" 

Edited February 11, 201411 yr by Guest

Story of the 4 Vandals on here

https://www.mixcloud.com/ianlevine35/ian-levine-on-the-flip-pearce-blues-soul-official-radio-show/

How can Bettye Swann "Kiss My Love Goodbye" be dragged into this?

 

Overplayed–as is the case with many a ten quid monster–but one of the great singers on a great piece of Philly soul from a golden era. Bracketing it with the likes of The Four Vandals is a bit of a stretch.

How can Bettye Swann "Kiss My Love Goodbye" be dragged into this?

 

Overplayed–as is the case with many a ten quid monster–but one of the great singers on a great piece of Philly soul from a golden era. Bracketing it with the likes of The Four Vandals is a bit of a stretch.

just trying to make a point about how commercial sounding many of the songs from that era were, Betty Swan should of been a hit when it was released. 

You could make the same point about practically any era in Northern scene history.

You could make the same point about practically any era in Northern scene history.

 

I think you could easily.

 

"At The Top Of The Stairs" and "Hey Girl Don't Bother Me" from the 60's, "You Sexy Sugar Plum" and "The Flasher" from the 70's etc, etc...no shortage of commercial tunes from all the eras in my memory......

 

And Bettye Swan sounds a lot more commercial these days then when it was first released, when it sounded a bit too dated compared to the smoother and even more commercial Philly that was coming through at the time.

 

Ian D 

Yet some tunes from the 60s were re activated from the popularity of the northern soul clubs in the early 70s.

 

tammi Lynn. Being the most successful ...

Sorry but unless i am very much mistaken, No singer, songwriter, producer ever said lets make a non hit on purpose. Every record ever  put onto vinyl they hoped to be a hit and make them money. Therefore every record ever recorded was a want-to-be pop record, including every record played on the northern. rare. modern & cross-over scene. Sorry but soul snobbery does get to me.

How can Bettye Swann "Kiss My Love Goodbye" be dragged into this?

 

Overplayed–as is the case with many a ten quid monster–but one of the great singers on a great piece of Philly soul from a golden era. Bracketing it with the likes of The Four Vandals is a bit of a stretch.

 

Fair call Gareth. Good on you to correct our slightly diverted train back onto the rails of reality! Same with the Spinners I'd say....commercial tune but a good one from a great group! The fact that someone tried to pull a stunt (not the only one incidentally) to "prove a point" and "fool" people, means this fooker should be combined to the same dustbin as "The Wigan Joker", "Northern soul dancer" etc.

So what are the thoughts on 'Solid ground'? again Levine penned and produced.

 

I think Levine was "Skating On Thin Ice" with this, which incidentally is the title of another dodgy Levine production.  Let's hope "You Reap What You Sow", Mr Levine, which incidentally is yet another Levine production.  I wonder where he gets his song writing inspiration from?

Sorry but unless i am very much mistaken, No singer, songwriter, producer ever said lets make a non hit on purpose. Every record ever  put onto vinyl they hoped to be a hit and make them money. Therefore every record ever recorded was a want-to-be pop record, including every record played on the northern. rare. modern & cross-over scene. Sorry but soul snobbery does get to me.

 

In essence I agree totally with what you have said here, but it also made me think did every artist want a pop hit ?

 

I wonder whether some artists who only ever recorded Blues songs did want a pop hit ? they would certainly have wanted the money and fame that would generate, but is that what they were thinking when they recorded their song, or were they just thinking 'I have this great song, about the pain of my breakup with my woman' I want other people to hear it.

 

Artists who only ever recorded Blues were by the very nature of the music, somewhat world weary, they would have realised that their songs were never going to make it to the top of the 'bubblegum' pop charts, so wouldn't have made songs with that as their aim.

 

Perhaps they would all have aspired to reach the fame that B B King eventually managed, but did even the mighty B B King have any 'pop' hits ? I honestly don't know.

 

Just something to think about on a cold, wet, and windy Wednesday morning.

 

By the way, I'm quite happy to be shot down on this one, but you need to give reasons

Edited February 12, 201411 yr by Dave Rimmer

Sorry but unless i am very much mistaken, No singer, songwriter, producer ever said lets make a non hit on purpose. Every record ever  put onto vinyl they hoped to be a hit and make them money. Therefore every record ever recorded was a want-to-be pop record, including every record played on the northern. rare. modern & cross-over scene. Sorry but soul snobbery does get to me.

I've lost count of how many times I've said exactly this, and how many times it's fallen on deaf but 'elite' ears. The northern scene is basically founded on what we as an audience consider good/great soulful danceable records the fact that a lot of those tracks are rare, is a happy coincidence for us in terms of our own needs to be attached to something different, to carve our own niche, the artists performing them wouldn't for one minute be as happy, because their aim wasn't to fuel a dance scene, it was too put food on the table. 

 

I realise Joey DeLorenzo, Four Vandals, Betty Wright tribute etc aren't the best tracks ever played on the northern scene, BUT dancers like them and that's no different to back in the day when Muriel Day, Brian Hyland, and umpteen other dire records were being played. We're always banging on about retaining our ethics, how about the one that used to refer to a full dance floor. 

 

Perhaps they would all have aspired to reach the fame that B B King eventually managed, but did even the mighty B B King have any 'pop' hits ? I honestly don't know.

 

 

 

BB King had a pop hit when he recorded "When Love Comes To Town" with U2.

BB King had a pop hit when he recorded "When Love Comes To Town" with U2.

 

I admit that I didn't know that. But was it a hit for B B King ? Or was it a hit because all the U2 fans bought it ?

I admit that I didn't know that. But was it a hit for B B King ? Or was it a hit because all the U2 fans bought it ?

 

It'll be the latter, I suspect Dave, U2 supposedly being the biggest band in the world at one time.

It'll be the latter, I suspect Dave, U2 supposedly being the biggest band in the world at one time.

 

So we are in reality back in the situation where even B B King, probably the most successful black American blues guitarist of modern times has never had a pop hit. To reiterate my initial assertion, would 'Albert "Smokestack" Noggins' & His Tub Thumping Cougar Boys Band', who recorded a couple of singles for the 'Backwoods Moonshine' label in 1967 in reality have been expecting them to become 'pop' hits. I think not. They probably hoped they might get a bit of local radio play and a couple of bookings on the back of it, and that was it. They just wanted to put a record out !

So we are in reality back in the situation where even B B King, probably the most successful black American blues guitarist of modern times has never had a pop hit. To reiterate my initial assertion, would 'Albert "Smokestack" Noggins' & His Tub Thumping Cougar Boys Band', who recorded a couple of singles for the 'Backwoods Moonshine' label in 1967 in reality have been expecting them to become 'pop' hits. I think not. They probably hoped they might get a bit of local radio play and a couple of bookings on the back of it, and that was it. They just wanted to put a record out !

 

Depends on what you term reality, Dave.  BB King is certainly acknowledged on the single and album track, he appeared on stage with U2 performing the hit, he appeared with U2 on the music video (which incidentally won the MTV Video Music Award for best video from a film in 1989), and more tellingly, he continued to perform the song at his own concerts long after U2 had dropped it from their live performances.  On the back of this he went on to record an album with Eric Clapton, and launched a chain of night clubs in the States.  I've walked past the one in Orlando.  Don't know if any of his contemporaries consider that he has 'sold out', but a hit is a hit, whether it's a collaboration or not.

Depends on what you term reality, Dave.  BB King is certainly acknowledged on the single and album track, he appeared on stage with U2 performing the hit, he appeared with U2 on the music video (which incidentally won the MTV Video Music Award for best video from a film in 1989), and more tellingly, he continued to perform the song at his own concerts long after U2 had dropped it from their live performances.  On the back of this he went on to record an album with Eric Clapton, and launched a chain of night clubs in the States.  I've walked past the one in Orlando.  Don't know if any of his contemporaries consider that he has 'sold out', but a hit is a hit, whether it's a collaboration or not.

 

Oh I'm not arguing that he didn't have the hit. I'm questioning whether he would have had the hit without collaboration with U2. He might have, but the reality still remains that whilst most records are made with the idea of them becoming 'pop' hits, I would argue that in some genres of music creating a 'pop' hit isn't a consideration, and is most unlikely anyway. Blues, and B B king were just the examples I chose.

Oh I'm not arguing that he didn't have the hit. I'm questioning whether he would have had the hit without collaboration with U2. He might have, but the reality still remains that whilst most records are made with the idea of them becoming 'pop' hits, I would argue that in some genres of music creating a 'pop' hit isn't a consideration, and is most unlikely anyway. Blues, and B B king were just the examples I chose.

 

Totally agree with you Dave.  The collaboration brought him to a lot more people's attention and certainly did his career no harm.  It's actually an interesting story on how the collaboration came about.  U2 were in the audience at one of BB's concerts in Dublin, and they met up backstage.  When they said they were fans, BB asked Bono to think of him sometime when he was writing a song, and WLCTT was the result.  I think the recording came out of mutual admiration.  Might be a good topic for a new thread, soul artists who have benefitted from collaborations with pop / rock artists.

B.B. did have an American chart pop hit though, on his own - The Thrill Is Gone

B.B. did have an American chart pop hit though, on his own - The Thrill Is Gone

 

No 15 in the Pop Charts, No 3 in the R & B Charts.

BB King is hardly an unknown, I can remember him being very influential from the very early seventies. Just had a look at his bio https://www.bbking.com/bio/ so not sure he's the best example of an artist not looking to make a hit?

Chalky said there are plenty of records folk would rather re-energise than this. That said there are plenty of records that are way crappier than wrong side of town, which in my opinion and plenty of others if they were honest, is a good record.

Was The Wrong Side Of Town video filmed in Ian Levine's back garden?

 

https://youtu.be/UIlEiPU5PWQ

 

"There's Four Vandals in next door's back garden".  "Don't worry Missus, we'll send a car round straight away".

Edited February 12, 201411 yr by Steve S 60

Chalky said there are plenty of records folk would rather re-energise than this. That said there are plenty of records that are way crappier than wrong side of town, which in my opinion and plenty of others if they were honest, is a good record.

"Knowing Me, Knowing You" by Abba is, arguably (by many), a 'good record'. "I Can See For Miles" by the Who is definitely (in my opinion), a very 'good record'. Would I wish to hear them played out at a soul night of any description whatsoever? No. Would I question the discernment and judgement of any DJ playing it at a soul night? Yes.

Edited February 12, 201411 yr by markw

"Knowing Me, Knowing You" by Abba is, arguably (by many), a 'good record'. "I Can See For Miles" by the Who is definitely (in my opinion), a very 'good record'. Would I wish to hear them played out at a soul night of any description whatsoever? No. Would I question the discernment and judgement of any DJ playing it at a soul night? Yes.

 

Doesn't make sense.  Wrong Side Of Town is a NS record like it or not, the others aren't, The Who is a rock record and Abba is a sh*t record, so they wouldn't be considered for play anyway.

Its crap.

 

 

Peter

In essence I agree totally with what you have said here, but it also made me think did every artist want a pop hit ?

 

I wonder whether some artists who only ever recorded Blues songs did want a pop hit ? they would certainly have wanted the money and fame that would generate, but is that what they were thinking when they recorded their song, or were they just thinking 'I have this great song, about the pain of my breakup with my woman' I want other people to hear it.

 

Artists who only ever recorded Blues were by the very nature of the music, somewhat world weary, they would have realised that their songs were never going to make it to the top of the 'bubblegum' pop charts, so wouldn't have made songs with that as their aim.

 

Perhaps they would all have aspired to reach the fame that B B King eventually managed, but did even the mighty B B King have any 'pop' hits ? I honestly don't know.

 

Just something to think about on a cold, wet, and windy Wednesday morning.

 

By the way, I'm quite happy to be shot down on this one, but you need to give reasons

By your own admission they produced records so that other people could hear them. In reality i would suggest that they would also hope that people (after hearing the record, possibly on a local radio station) would then go out and buy the record and/or look out for live performances or future productions. These might not sell enough to get into the charts, but i would expect the singers etc. to at least hope to sell enough to cover their expenses, and maybe put some food on their table.

"Knowing Me, Knowing You" by Abba is, arguably (by many), a 'good record'. "I Can See For Miles" by the Who is definitely (in my opinion), a very 'good record'. Would I wish to hear them played out at a soul night of any description whatsoever? No. Would I question the discernment and judgement of any DJ playing it at a soul night? Yes.

 

Read Pete's reply. He made the point I was going to. Page 1!

Its crap.

 

 

Peter

 

A very well thought out post there!

 

So an NS track with an unquestionably danceable beat and soulful vocal and that is crap is it?

 

How did/does Tony Galla ever get plays.. What of Joey Delernzo??

A very well thought out post there!

 

So an NS track with an unquestionably danceable beat and soulful vocal and that is crap is it?

 

How did/does Tony Galla ever get plays.. What of Joey Delernzo??

Yep, took me a while to think about it.

 

I could name you loads of crap records which should never have been played but the thread is about the Wrong Side of Town - and I think it's a crap record.

 

furry muff ...

furry muff ...

Clever.