Rose Valentine RCA black stock value ?

[Tlscapital 763]

One sold on the eVilBay in 2012 for not much money IMHO ($171), one was also auctioned on the 'northernsoul45s.co.uk' site and a last one was auctioned (from that BBC library collection I believe) via the 'sale-room.com' British auction site. Anyone knows how much for these last two went for ?

[purist 315]

I don't know the answer to your question, sorry, but I've been collecting the label for a great many years so feel I have some input that might help you.
Because of its origins at the Catacombs and my black RCA addiction you'd wonder why I've sold one and given one away without keeping one (same score on WDH copies as well 1 sold 1 given away) The reason is that it has that unfortunate beat that is impossible to dance traditional northern soul style dancing to. Vocally and production wise its a fabulous record, but it becomes a very difficult sell due to the dance floor issue unless you can find somebody with a Catacombs addcition or RCA label collector who doesn't have any interest in northern soul)
A lot of RCA's fall into the category of "20/30/50/100/500 WDJ's for every black issue" and that makes the price higher for black ones, but I think the count on black/white copies of this 45 are at worst 2 to 1, so £30-50 for the demo and 60-100 for the black ones. This really doesn't matter though because they are a really tough sell so if you're trying to sell one take whatever you can get for it, and hope for an inexperienced buyer, those ones who think every black RCA is worth a fortune, if you are looking to buy one then use this post to get one cheaply 
HTH

[Tlscapital 763]

Thanks for your input. Much appreciated. Although I have to disagree on the "northern soul" 'appeal' of it. Have that record for 35 years now and it's always been regarded as that since day one for me. Mind you I am only 51 years young and not British so what do I know ? 

While I agree that it takes legs full of energy to keep up with the pace of the tune, making it not a 'IN' records by today's flow, it still is 'northern soul' IMO. Indeed if someone would need such a clean copy of a record that is almost common on demo it would need to be a completist RCA stocker collector.

Not a 'dee-jay' really nor a collector like me who collect sometimes promo and other times stockers only for the visual preference or the double 'A' side factor when there's that. Maybe back in the days stock copies where floating around but today seemingly really not as much. Making it hard for me to 'value'. Once !

[Blackpoolsoul 1,118]

25 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

Thanks for your input. Much appreciated. Although I have to disagree on the "northern soul" 'appeal' of it. Have that record for 35 years now and it's always been regarded as that since day one for me. Mind you I am only 51 years young and not British so what do I know ? 

While I agree that it takes legs full of energy to keep up with the pace of the tune, making it not a 'IN' records by today's flow, it still is 'northern soul' IMO. Indeed if someone would need such a clean copy of a record that is almost common on demo it would need to be a completist RCA stocker collector.

Not a 'dee-jay' really nor a collector like me who collect sometimes promo and other times stockers only for the visual preference or the double 'A' side factor when there's that. Maybe back in the days stock copies where floating around but today seemingly really not as much. Making it hard for me to 'value'. Once !

I am pretty sure there were 2 stock copies 

One was a single line title and the other 2 lines

East and west coast ?

Always around £100- £150 and much rarer than the demo, which is odd

[Tlscapital 763]

That's the realistic whereabout value for this record I am now incline to believe. Thanks guys. Even if JM might double that if auctioned... But that's not my "sport". All respect due to the man evidently

On the East and West coast (or different pressing plants) and label variations on the title alignement I am yet to see that. I've seen many variants (from different pressing plants) on some RCA's but not this one !

[The Yank 2,110]

Here ya go - 

 

[Blackpoolsoul 1,118]

41 minutes ago, The Yank said:

Here ya go - 

 

You all did now it is Little Ann pseudonym ?

[Tlscapital 763]

Or was that only Richard pseudo for his cover-up of 'what can I do' ? 

[Blackpoolsoul 1,118]

11 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

Or was that only Richard pseudo for his cover-up of 'what can I do' ? 

I know he covered it up but I am sure someone found out it was Little Ann for real, (I am sure I read it somewhere) but I could be wrong

[Wheelsville1 141]

26 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I know he covered it up but I am sure someone found out it was Little Ann for real, (I am sure I read it somewhere) but I could be wrong

The proper title is what should i do,it was Gilly and Tats who discoverd the real identity of the artist when visiting Dave Hamilton in Detroit. 

[Chalky 15,620]

14 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I am pretty sure there were 2 stock copies 

One was a single line title and the other 2 lines

East and west coast ?

Always around £100- £150 and much rarer than the demo, which is odd

There is nothing odd about it.  Given the size of RCA they will massively promo a release, just about every radio station getting copies.  If feedback wasn’t good and initial sales poor then the 45 would be dropped. 
 

Many RCA releases of interest to us are rarer on issue

Edited March 24 by Chalky

[Blackpoolsoul 1,118]

23 minutes ago, Chalky said:

There is nothing odd about it.  Given the size of RCA they will massively promo a release, just about every radio station getting copies.  If feedback wasn’t good and initial sales poor then the 45 would be dropped. 
 

Many RCA releases of interest to us are rarer on issue

I get that, I don't understand why the demos are so much more expensive though when there are so many more of them

Edited March 24 by Blackpoolsoul

[Chalky 15,620]

3 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I get that, I don't understand why the demos are so much more expensive though when there are so many more of them

Are they? They shouldn’t be. Most black issues are more expensive than the demo.

[Blackpoolsoul 1,118]

4 hours ago, Chalky said:

Are they? They shouldn’t be. Most black issues are more expensive than the demo.

2 were, on Ebay (popsike), but the rest weren't more than the demos, I wished I had grabbed a couple

Edited March 24 by Blackpoolsoul

[Becket 482]

I seem to remember a story (true or not ?) that RCA recalled or re-used the vinyl of non selling stock copies.
This is why black stockers are particular scarce.
Or am I totally "off my head" with this ?

Best,   Tom.

[Halogen 94]

On 24/03/2021 at 07:55, Blackpoolsoul said:

2 were, on Ebay (popsike), but the rest weren't more than the demos, I wished I had grabbed a couple

Traditionally most black issues are a lot harder to find than the White demos.  So they usually go for more money.

I read that the demos never went back to RCA, but the issues may have been on a sale or return arrangment.

There are some exceptions I have seen over the years. 

The Metro's "Since I Found My baby" - RCA.  It turns up a less on the White demo than a Black issue!  I must have seen a ratio of at least 3 issues compared to 1 white demo.

 

 

[Becket 482]

59 minutes ago, Halogen said:

Traditionally most black issues are a lot harder to find than the White demos.  So they usually go for more money.

I read that the demos never went back to RCA, but the issues may have been on a sale or return arrangment.

There are some exceptions I have seen over the years. 

The Metro's "Since I Found My baby" - RCA.  It turns up a less on the White demo than a Black issue!  I must have seen a ratio of at least 3 issues compared to 1 white demo.

 

 

Totally agree on this - I have seen the same.
Did it sell quite well especially locally - hence the proliferation of stockers ?

Best,     Tom.

[Garethx 1,013]

I think we'd all be surprised by the order numbers for RCA white dj copies. Usually in the order of 20,000 copies from each of their three pressing plants (Rockaway New York, Indianapolis and Hollywood California). If the record looked like it was going to be a hit then obviously the order numbers for issue copies would be huge. In the case of records which didn't get any airplay then the quantities for issues would be far smaller. 

In my limited experience the one which is particularly difficult to turn up as an issue copy is Faye Crawford's "What Have I Done Wrong?". By comparison Rose Valentine is not scarce as a black-labelled stocker. The issues pictured by The Yank above are from the Indianapolis (top image) and Hollywood pressing plants.

[Chalky 15,620]

4 hours ago, Garethx said:

I think we'd all be surprised by the order numbers for RCA white dj copies. Usually in the order of 20,000 copies from each of their three pressing plants (Rockaway New York, Indianapolis and Hollywood California). If the record looked like it was going to be a hit then obviously the order numbers for issue copies would be huge. In the case of records which didn't get any airplay then the quantities for issues would be far smaller. 

In my limited experience the one which is particularly difficult to turn up as an issue copy is Faye Crawford's "What Have I Done Wrong?". By comparison Rose Valentine is not scarce as a black-labelled stocker. The issues pictured by The Yank above are from the Indianapolis (top image) and Hollywood pressing plants.

When you think of the size of the country and the amount of radio stations, Djs, pluggers etc, 20.000 would soon be gone. 

[Garethx 1,013]

True Chalky.

 

[Chalky 15,620]

8 minutes ago, Garethx said:

True Chalky.

 

and they pay no tax on promos

[The Yank 2,110]

"No Baby" did get some airplay in New York City, Washington D.C. and Detroit but never really took off. This survey shows Frankie "Ton Of Dynamite" Crocker - 

[Dave Pinch 1,950]

1 hour ago, The Yank said:

"No Baby" did get some airplay in New York City, Washington D.C. and Detroit but never really took off. This survey shows Frankie "Ton Of Dynamite" Crocker - 

think the metros previous single sweetest one was a bigger seller..even made the billboard hot 100 pop

[The Yank 2,110]

11 minutes ago, Dave Pinch said:

think the metros previous single sweetest one was a bigger seller..even made the billboard hot 100 pop

     "Sweetest One" was a much bigger hit for the group with sales near 100,000 according to this article -