Had a discussion with an old mate of mine (and many others) Kev Featherstone, about what was the first soul record? It seems a topic that creates some differing opinions, Sam Cooke, Ray Charles, the introduction of strings etc etc. I've also recently been listening to Kent Records excellent Birth of Soul series off cds with many great examples of early soul.

So, what do you think is the first soul record? Don't want your favourite, just where you think it all started?

Edited May 28May 28 by Chalky

Interesting topic…however it opens the question of “what is soul”?

Jerry Butler, For your precious love.

1953 >> Faye Adams

. . . released here in 1968 on Bell's Cellar Of Soul Vol. Two

I associate the word Soul from when Berry Gordy purchased the label for $1 from Carmen Murphy.

2 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I associate the word Soul from when Berry Gordy purchased the label for $1 from Carmen Murphy.

That was around end of summer, 1963.

I'm sure there would be lots of songs we'd call "Soul Music" released long before then. I think lots of Five Royales' recordings on Apollo Records from even 1949-53 would be considered "Soul", but also R&B; and there were hundreds of others. So, for me, there was a 5-8 year overlap of those 2 genres. So there can't possibly be a "first" "Soul" record. There were hundreds of transitional records, moving from one genre to the other.

Edited May 28May 28 by Robbk

Got the Birth of soul cd's, great compilations. Someone wrote somewhere that they regarded the Falcons "I found a love" as one of the first, but everyone will have their own choice.

Martyn

44 minutes ago, Dark City said:

Got the Birth of soul cd's, great compilations. Someone wrote somewhere that they regarded the Falcons "I found a love" as one of the first, but everyone will have their own choice.

Martyn

1 hour ago, Robbk said:

That was around end of summer, 1963.

I'm sure there would be lots of songs we'd call "Soul Music" released long before then. I think lots of Five Royales' recordings on Apollo Records from even 1949-53 would be considered "Soul", but also R&B; and there were hundreds of others. So, for me, there was a 5-8 year overlap of those 2 genres. So there can't possibly be a "first" "Soul" record. There were hundreds of transitional records, moving from one genre to the other.

I’m with Robbie on this one on the 8 year overlap, I would say 1955 to 1963 was the overlap with a mixture of doo,wop RnB, touch of Gospel emanating into the Soul that we recognise, I always loved and enjoyed some of the great sounds pre 1964, for me all the best sounds came pre 1974, God knows what was being played and the music made in those black clubs late fifties and early 60,s and what was lost forever just wish I could have been there just for one night

Cheers Mick L

If you were living in Baltimore in 1960 & attended these 4 shows @ the Royal Theatre ...I'm sure you'd have witnessed a few PURE SOUL filled performances of these artists recordings ...

Check out these other compilations regarding early soul. Soul breakout 4 vols. 58-61 from Fantastic voyage. Soul city 6 vols. also Fantastic voyage.

14 hours ago, Robbk said:

That was around end of summer, 1963.

I'm sure there would be lots of songs we'd call "Soul Music" released long before then. I think lots of Five Royales' recordings on Apollo Records from even 1949-53 would be considered "Soul", but also R&B; and there were hundreds of others. So, for me, there was a 5-8 year overlap of those 2 genres. So there can't possibly be a "first" "Soul" record. There were hundreds of transitional records, moving from one genre to the other.

14 hours ago, Robbk said:

That was around end of summer, 1963.

I'm sure there would be lots of songs we'd call "Soul Music" released long before then. I think lots of Five Royales' recordings on Apollo Records from even 1949-53 would be considered "Soul", but also R&B; and there were hundreds of others. So, for me, there was a 5-8 year overlap of those 2 genres. So there can't possibly be a "first" "Soul" record. There were hundreds of transitional records, moving from one genre to the other.

It is just my association and you are spot on and this article probably sums it up https://timeline.carnegiehall.org/genres/soul

A strong contender IMHO is Little Willie John's "Need Your Love So Bad" from 1955.

On 28/05/2025 at 19:38, Robbk said:

That was around end of summer, 1963.

I'm sure there would be lots of songs we'd call "Soul Music" released long before then. I think lots of Five Royales' recordings on Apollo Records from even 1949-53 would be considered "Soul", but also R&B; and there were hundreds of others. So, for me, there was a 5-8 year overlap of those 2 genres. So there can't possibly be a "first" "Soul" record. There were hundreds of transitional records, moving from one genre to the other.

Hi Rob,

I def agree with this, Do you ( or anyone else) know when "soul" first came into print in relation to music, are there any ads, charts, references in write ups ?

Appreciate this is going way back but im always amazed what info folks have

Ta...j

i think HORACE SILVER ( DISCOGS: American jazz pianist, composer and bandleader, born September 2, 1928, in Norwalk, Connecticut, USA; died June 18, 2014 (age 85), in New Rochelle, New York, USA.) may have been ( one of the one's) credited with the term Soul Music.1960.

At least 'his style was called Soul Music'.

There was a jazz album from COLEMAN HAWKINS just titled Soul (Prestige) released in 1958.

... another jazz album from HANK MOBLEY titled Soul Station (Blue Note) released in 1960.

Also yet another jazz album from BARBARA LONG just titled Soul (Savoy) in 1961.

Also in 61; Ray Charles had his Genius + Soul = Jazz LP (Impulse) out.

So the term was out there before & around the start of the decade, but was being used in a musical sense by jazz artists. In fact JAZZ had it's own (almost) complete language ... jazz slang ... where 100's of different terms were used on a regular basis ... one of these was ...

SOUL JAZZ -- which was a genre of music that emerged in the late 1950s and early 1960s, blending elements of jazz, R&B, and gospel music all together.

GOING BACK TO THE RAY CHARLES ALBUM ... the sleeve notes state that this album demonstrates Ray Charles pushing the boundaries of music utilising the Hammond organ. The music is out & out jazz with an emotional projection ... as SOUL MUSIC was really R&B fused with gospel, I'd guess that would be R&B with an emotional projection ...

Edited May 30May 30 by Roburt

On 30/05/2025 at 05:21, Pigeon Thing said:

Hi Rob,

I def agree with this, Do you ( or anyone else) know when "soul" first came into print in relation to music, are there any ads, charts, references in write ups ?

Appreciate this is going way back but im always amazed what info folks have

Ta...j

There are always outliers, so a stray was probably before 1958. But we started to see that term for a music style in 1958 and 1959. And by 1960-61, it was fairly common. By 1963-64 it was entrenched as a new genre of Music, now detached from R&B (but lots of songs were transitional, and had several elements of both. I'd like to read The Yank's answer to this question, to see if it differs at all.

Whilst I agree the transition from say blues/R&B to soul was over a few years there are, like in any genre certain records that kick things off, Ray Charles in the 50s often given as an example. Sam Cooke often cited for when Soul went mainstream.

On 28/05/2025 at 10:59, Roburt said:

1953 >> Faye Adams

. . . released here in 1968 on Bell's Cellar Of Soul Vol. Two

Nice song to chill to .

I think it was Dave Godin who cited Maxine Brown - All In My Mind as the first Soul record .

On 01/06/2025 at 20:12, Robbk said:

There are always outliers, so a stray was probably before 1958. But we started to see that term for a music style in 1958 and 1959. And by 1960-61, it was fairly common. By 1963-64 it was entrenched as a new genre of Music, now detached from R&B (but lots of songs were transitional, and had several elements of both. I'd like to read The Yank's answer to this question, to see if it differs at all.

Picking the 1st Soul record will always be debatable. The same thing goes for when the term "Soul" first appeared. I don't think it was the 1st time it was ever used but the examples below are a good starting point. The album was released in early 1961 and here's a part of the liner notes- "Soul in the last few years has become a very successful commercial term, more often than not, it is just a commercial term". So even in 1961, the term seems to have been around for awhile. I'm sure there are earlier examples of the term being used , hopefully someone will add to the thread.

Edited June 3Jun 3 by The Yank

WILLIE JOHNSON - Dark was the night (1927 IMO

There's a few pure soul records here ... and the 2 guys singled out below had a big hand in making early soul tracks (+ they certainly popularised soul releases here in the UK) ...

AND AS SAID ABOVE .... Ike & Tina were in the soul bag from an early date ...

Edited June 5Jun 5 by Roburt

You would get a similar debate with so many other genre's. The point about the overlap is very valid and I'd agree this is impossible to define. So When did R n B start? 😁

18 minutes ago, Geeselad said:

You would get a similar debate with so many other genre's. The point about the overlap is very valid and I'd agree this is impossible to define. So When did R n B start? 😁

As I said as in any genre there are always certain records that are recognised as the beginning of any genre.

25 minutes ago, Chalky said:

As I said as in any genre there are always certain records that are recognised as the beginning of any genre.

Fair point, however I think it's also fair to say those examples are usually disputed.

40 minutes ago, Geeselad said:

You would get a similar debate with so many other genre's. The point about the overlap is very valid and I'd agree this is impossible to define. So When did R n B start? 😁

There was blues beforehand, rhythm added to make it uplifting though by definition the music was about the continual struggle in life for afro-americans. I couldn't pick a particular song that defines the start or even the end and as for personally, i wouldn't have realized i was listening to the genre that has permeated our scene for so long because i would've classed it as soul music, it was all the same to me so long as you could dance to it?

There was definitely RnB music being played early 1950,s and from the the late 1940,s Ike Turner a good example, another Roy Brown etc

ML

6 hours ago, Geeselad said:

Fair point, however I think it's also fair to say those examples are usually disputed.

That’s the idea of the topic, get some examples and discuss or dispute

You can't understate this guy's relevance . Highly influential in the the development of western pop music, particularly in Europe. Both 'I've got a woman' and 'what I say' certainly had a big impact on rhythm and blues and in terms of musical structure and vocal stylings. Ok Ray may never had the best voice but in terms of impact....

Can't believe how contemporary this still sounds, dating from 1959. Other contenders may have had an influence on singing styles but musically Ray was way ahead.

For me personally it's the 1958 Chuck Willis B-side 'What Am I Living For' (A-side 'Hang Up My Rock & Roll Shoes'). In the 60's I started looking back into the early origins of Soul and this side never failed to get my attention.

For me it's got to be either something by Ray Charles or Little Willie John, do not know exactly which record but they where pushing the boundaries certainly in the 50s.

On 28/05/2025 at 13:42, Hooker1951 said:

I’m with Robbie on this one on the 8 year overlap, I would say 1955 to 1963 was the overlap with a mixture of doo,wop RnB, touch of Gospel emanating into the Soul that we recognise, I always loved and enjoyed some of the great sounds pre 1964, for me all the best sounds came pre 1974, (1) God knows what was being played and the music made in those black clubs late fifties and early '60s, (2) and what was lost forever. (3) I just wish I could have been there just for one night

Cheers Mick L

I should have answered these questions months ago.

(1) Not just God, but there are still many people around that remember well who was playing and singing what in The Black Community's nightclubs between 1955 and 1963. The best of the clubs had the bigger stars in each genre of The Black Community's singers of all genres, musicians (bands) of all genres at various times. You can find out from venue advertising posters from those times, and club adverts on radio record charts, and listening to radio show recorded checks. Of course many of the smaller, local neighbourhood clubs specialised in artists from a smaller variety of genres. There were clubs that specialised in Jazz, and Pop artists (orchestras/bands and featured single artists, and clubs that specialised in City Blues and Bluesey-Jazz/R&B, you got to hear Gospel in Church, but the Gospel singers who wished to moonlight in the secular music market sang in the neighbourhood clubs that featured local and lesser nationally-known artists, who featured music from the various different genres. Of course many of the nightclubs also featured comedians and other types of entertainers, too.

(2) You can figure out what types of artists and what songs were sung or played in the clubs by having a vast knowledge of what records by Black artists were out during those times, and which ones charted. What we don't know about today would still be represented by the records that still exist today, including demos of records that were never sold commercially, or only sold in the few hundreds, locally. Of course those sources wouldn't be perfect, because there were some artists who never had charted hits, but still were popular, and always got work in the local clubs, like Billy Watkins in L.A. , Gino Washington, in Detroit, who although he did have one big hit, he lasted on the nightclub circuit for many more years than that hit would warrant, Billy MacGregor in Chicago, etc. But for most of them, the rare R&B and Soul collector has several records by them, and they are well known. So, I don't think you'd be missing many of the songs that would have been played and sung in the clubs IF you'd become an expert on the records produced by Black artists between 1955 and 1963, as much as the expert Soulies know from the 1965-1974 period.

(3) You can find out how some of them sounded and how they looked from watching 1950s and early '60 films that included scenes in such Ghetto nightclubs. In addition to national popular films, there were also still some music-themed films made by Black producers made especially for Black audiences being made in the early 1950s, and they would give you an idea of what style music was still being played in them. You could also listen to recorded radio programs recording shows on club dates.

Otherwise, I can't help you with this one, because, even if you hear the studio recording of the song on a commercial record, the artist playing or singing the song does it in a more raw, spontaneous, less polished version, that is very different from what was produced in the studio. As for me, especially for R&B Group Harmony and highly orchestrated Soul, I very often like the polished studio version better, but not always (especially Blues, Jazz, and Gospel music, I found the live versions often better).

Edited September 23Sep 23 by Robbk