Boss Records Detroit

[Guest gaz thomas]

Could lorraine chandler tell anything about Boss records ?

 

All three releases are credited to herbie williams joe hunter jack ashford and lorraine chandler, obviously a piped piper poduct

 

was boss records just a name change from giant ?

 

What was the story?

 

Why only three records released ?

 

Who were Johhny Dixon Reggie Alexander and Jeen and Him

 

All three 45s are lovley

 

Why only three 45s on the label ?

 

Any Story ?

[Guest gaz thomas]

 just listened to the instrumental of "where were you"

 

fantastic

[Robbk]

I think that THAT Boss Records (no connection with The Celebrities' Boss) was owned by the owner of Sport Records, as was Sir Rah Records.  They ALL have John L. Music, with at least half participation in the publishing, and, otherwise full participation.  The sharing participation is represented by Daedalian, Earlbarb, and Chatlee Music, which represent varying combinations of Pied Piper producers (Jack Ashford, Lorraine Chandler, Mike Terry, and possibly, Herbie Williams and Joe Hunter, etc.).  The overriding link is the owner of Sport, who likely financed all 3 labels.  The Pied Piper producers may have had some ownership participation in Boss and Sir Rah, but I think they were just production staff for Sport.  Sport also had some connection with Chicago, with, I believe, Andre Williams producing some cuts there.  Along with John L. Music, Super Sonic Sound Productions produced ALL productions of all 3 labels.  That's a group that, like John L. Music, represents the owner of Sport, and both Sport productions using Pied Piper people, and also those using other Detroiters, such as Johnny Allen and Andre Williams, and Dale Warren.  So, my guess is that Boss is NOT a Pied Piper label, but a label owned by Sport's owner, possibly as a joint venture with Pied Piper people, but, more likely to have been just hiring them to produce the sessions.  I doubt that there was a connection between Detroit's Giant Records and the Super Sonic Sound Productions labels, other than Pied Piper people working on their productions.

 

Reggie Alexander and Johnny Dixon were Detroit Soul singers who had some other Detroit Soul releases.  I remember seeing Johnny Dixon's name as a group member (but forget which group).  If I'm not mistaken, Jeen & Him were a Caucasian duo.  Jeen was probably named Jean Carter, writer of one of their songs.

 

I'll be curious to find out the real story of Sport, Boss and Sir Rah Records from Lorraine, rather than just conjecture.

Edited May 3, 2014 by RobbK

[Dobber]

I had the reggie alexander 45 ' its better' and I was convinced that reggie was in fact andy Williams ' the crooner' because  a. its sounds like him  b. the twinkling piano   and c. the writer credits on the b side of the 45 is ' a.williams'

[Robbk]

I had the reggie alexander 45 ' its better' and I was convinced that reggie was in fact andy Williams ' the crooner' because  a. its sounds like him  b. the twinkling piano   and c. the writer credits on the b side of the 45 is ' a.williams'

Why would crooner Andy Williams be moonlighting, signed to a tiny Detroit label?  At that time, he had a large contract with a major label.  Did he need more money?  Was he likely to make money from sales of a non-plugged lousy record on a tiny label?  Was he looking for it to get him more gigs in Detroit?  He was at his height in show business at that time-a superstar.  He had his own high rated TV variety show at that time, and had a lot of clout with powerful NBC.  He could command whatever he wanted for any appearance.  It makes NO sense at all.  The similar voice, name initials and twinkly piano have to be just coincidences.

 

Andre Williams was currently working for Sport (Super Sonic Sound Productions (who also produced Boss)), as producer, songwriter and artist with "Pearl Time" on Sport 105.  Clearly, A Williams is Andre Williams.

[Pete S]

I think that THAT Boss Records (no connection with The Celebrities' Boss) was owned by the owner of Sport Records, as was Sir Rah Records.  They ALL have John L. Music, with at least half participation in the publishing, and, otherwise full participation.  The sharing participation is represented by Daedalian, Earlbarb, and Chatlee Music, which represent varying combinations of Pied Piper producers (Jack Ashford, Lorraine Chandler, Mike Terry, and possibly, Herbie Williams and Joe Hunter, etc.).  The overriding link is the owner of Sport, who likely financed all 3 labels.  The Pied Piper producers may have had some ownership participation in Boss and Sir Rah, but I think they were just production staff for Sport.  Sport also had some connection with Chicago, with, I believe, Andre Williams producing some cuts there.  Along with John L. Music, Super Sonic Sound Productions produced ALL productions of all 3 labels.  That's a group that, like John L. Music, represents the owner of Sport, and both Sport productions using Pied Piper people, and also those using other Detroiters, such as Johnny Allen and Andre Williams, and Dale Warren.  So, my guess is that Boss is NOT a Pied Piper label, but a label owned by Sport's owner, possibly as a joint venture with Pied Piper people, but, more likely to have been just hiring them to produce the sessions.  I doubt that there was a connection between Detroit's Giant Records and the Super Sonic Sound Productions labels, other than Pied Piper people working on their productions.

 

Reggie Alexander and Johnny Dixon were Detroit Soul singers who had some other Detroit Soul releases.  I remember seeing Johnny Dixon's name as a group member (but forget which group).  If I'm not mistaken, Jeen & Him were a Caucasian duo.  Jeen was probably named Jean Carter, writer of one of their songs.

 

I'll be curious to find out the real story of Sport, Boss and Sir Rah Records from Lorraine, rather than just conjecture.

 

Sir Rah backwards is Harris.  Clue?

[Pete S]

Why would crooner Andy Williams be moonlighting, signed to a tiny Detroit label?  At that time, he had a large contract with a major label.  Did he need more money?  Was he likely to make money from sales of a non-plugged lousy record on a tiny label?  Was he looking for it to get him more gigs in Detroit?  He was at his height in show business at that time-a superstar.  He had his own high rated TV variety show at that time, and had a lot of clout with powerful NBC.  He could command whatever he wanted for any appearance.  It makes NO sense at all.  The similar voice, name initials and twinkly piano have to be just coincidences.

 

Andre Williams was currently working for Sport (Super Sonic Sound Productions (who also produced Boss)), as producer, songwriter and artist with "Pearl Time" on Sport 105.  Clearly, A Williams is Andre Williams.

 

Of course he wouldn't, but it really does sound like Andy Williams, uncannily so.

[Robbk]

Sir Rah backwards is Harris.  Clue?

Absolutely!  A. Harris is a writer on some Sir Rah cuts.  I seem to remember A. Harris as a writer on many Detroit Soul songs on various small labels.  I'd bet he is a co-owner of Boss, together with the owner of Sport records.  I've seen the names "Al Harris", "Andrew Harris", "Art Harris" and "Albert Harris".  I can't remember which were on Detroit labels.  Anyone here have an idea who A. Harris is?  I DO remember that we discussed Sport Records on a few threads on Soulful Detroit.  And, I believe that Ron Murphy or Ralph Terrana told us who the owner was.  But that was one of the pre-2005 lost threads.  So, I can't look it up.  The loss of The SDF Archives is a terrible loss.  There was a tremendous amount of information in those classic threads, much of which came from now-deceased forum members, who had been people in the music industry in Detroit during the 1960s.

Edited May 4, 2014 by RobbK

[Modernsoulsucks]

Still some work to do Bob getting a grip on that English humour thing.

 

So Tiny Tim - the fifth Supreme ?

 

No rants please.

 

ROD

[Robbk]

Still some work to do Bob getting a grip on that English humour thing.

 

So Tiny Tim - the fifth Supreme ?

 

No rants please.

 

ROD

So!  He was just joking about thinking Alexander might really be Andy Williams!  A little hyperbole on Alexander's lack of soulfulness, eh?

 

Ha! Ha!  And would you believe I'm still making a living as a comedy writer (albeit mainly for kids)?  As The Americans think British humour is so dry and subtle, what must they think of mine, which is so subtle, it can't be detected with a microscope?   I guess that's why I work for a Dutch company!  I was banished from USA media for having no sense of humour!  Holland has always been known for taking in the unwanted!

 

 

 

Nevertheless (as Billy Butler once sang),.........I'd love to be in on the joke of that Tiny Tim/Supremes reference!  What's the deal with that? 

[Dobber]

actually i was serious about reggie being andy williams...because of the similarities with voice,parts of the production,and the a.williams,i was almost sure it was him trying his hand under another name,maybe he thought it would get him in with another crowd!

 

but your right,he was a big star at the time,it wouldnt make any sense,and of course...a williams is andre.

[Guest gaz thomas]

A most mysterious label from Detroit

 

3 fantastic 45s, 

 

Of course they were pied piper, just check the credits

 

Is Lo Chandler here

 

the jeen and him - johnny Dixon 45s are amazing

 

lorraine supervised the johnny dixon session apparently  

 

all three are great 60s Detroit 45s

 

the jeen an him 45 is the most interesting 45 to me   I think that could be the rarest 45 of the three

 

But its deffo a part of pied piper, 

 

or the story, anyway

 

sid barnes and andre williams became involved around this year did they not ?

Edited May 6, 2014 by gaz thomas

[Robbk]

A most mysterious label from Detroit

 

3 fantastic 45s, 

 

Of course they were pied piper, just check the credits

 

Is Lo Chandler here

 

the jeen and him - johnny Dixon 45s are amazing

 

lorraine supervised the johnny dixon session apparently  

 

All three are great 60s Detroit 45s.

 

The Jeen and Him 45 is the most interesting 45 to me   I think that could be the rarest 45 of the three

 

But its deffo a part of pied piper, 

 

or the story, anyway

 

Sid Barnes and Andre Williams became involved around this year did they not ?

Certainly Lorraine C, can tell us the relationship that Pied Piper had to Sport, Boss and Sir Rah Records.  And while she's at it, I hope she'll explain the situation af Detroit's Giant Records.

[Labeat]

So!  He was just joking about thinking Alexander might really be Andy Williams!  A little hyperbole on Alexander's lack of soulfulness, eh?

 

Ha! Ha!  And would you believe I'm still making a living as a comedy writer (albeit mainly for kids)?  As The Americans think British humour is so dry and subtle, what must they think of mine, which is so subtle, it can't be detected with a microscope?   I guess that's why I work for a Dutch company!  I was banished from USA media for having no sense of humour!  Holland has always been known for taking in the unwanted!

 

 

 

Nevertheless (as Billy Butler once sang),.........I'd love to be in on the joke of that Tiny Tim/Supremes reference!  What's the deal with that? 

Hi Robb. It's the fact that TT & the Supremes are two totally opposites.... Yanks don't get humour like ours

P.S, Groucho Marx must have had British blood in him.... our type of comedian!

[jimmy clitheroe]

Laurel & hardy , three stodges ,Marx brothers etc all American greats make me laugh more than the likes of monty python ( never really got them)....Paul

[Labeat]

Laurel & hardy , three stodges ,Marx brothers etc all American greats make me laugh more than the likes of monty python ( never really got them)....Paul

 

Stan Laurel.... born&bred Cumbria. Totally agree on Monty Pythons although John Cleese was so good in Faulty Towers

[Robbk]

Monty Python is my favourite type of comedy.  I don't like The Three Stooges much at all.  They were much too slapstick.  I don't think Laurel and Hardy were all that funny, except for their more subtle underlying comedy.  Same for The Marx Brothers' more slapstick sequences.  I DO like Groucho's more subtle humour, especially by himself.  He was an extremely funny TV quiz show host and individual humourist after his film career ended.  The Marx Brothers were Jews from Alsace (German part of France).  They didn't have any British blood in them.  They probably left Alsace (which was part of Germany at that time) because The Germans have no sense of humour (if their top all-time comedian Willie Milovitch is any criterion).

 

I DON'T like Bennie Hill or Tommy Cooper, but DO like The Two Ronnies, Faulty Towers, The Black Adder.  Not Dame Edna so much, indifferent about Morecombe & Wise.  I love Margaret Rutheford, Alec Guiness, Alastair Sim, Robert Morely, Peter Cook, Peter Sellers.  I never liked the

 

I take it that you are referring to British subtle (high-brow) humour, as opposed to British slapstick.  I think, if I had my druthers, I'd choose British over US.  But, I like US/Canadian repitory group comedy, such as Second City and The Saturday Night Players.

 

I think Tiny Tim and ANYONE are total opposites.  And I DID get Rod's joke.  I was just pulling his leg (but didn't move it all that much, I'm afraid).

[Benji]

because The Germans have no sense of humour (if their top all-time comedian Willie Milovitch is any criterion).

 

You're right we don't have any sense of humour. Willy Millowitsch was an actor. Not a comedian.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Benji

[Labeat]

WHAT? Tommy Cooper not funny, i tell you, him and Eric Sykes... just two of many naturals.... not forgetting Roy Hudd

[Stuart Russell]

According to Keith Rylatt's Groovesville USA, Boss was owned by Bill Curtis, who was also involved with Andrew Harris at Sport.

 

Keith may have picked this up from the Soulful Detroit site — I'll ask him.

 

Stuart

[Mal C]

Here's what Dave has on his 'Soulful Kinda Music' site for Detroit...

 

Boss (Detroit)

101 — Jeen & Him — You Ain't Gonna Get A Chance / The Party's Over
102 — Reggie Alexander — My Confession (To You) / It's Better
103 — Johnny Dixon & Super Sonic Strings — Where Are You / Inst.
103 — Joe L — It's Love Baby / Maria's Blues

 

Sliding westwards, same name of label, Ive always liked 'Rick & ray - One Look / Boss, which is listed as the Chicago 'Boss' Label on the same site, anybody got a scan? Ive never seen it and would love a copy..

 

 

Malcolm

Edited May 6, 2014 by Mal C

[Mal C]

I think that THAT Boss Records (no connection with The Celebrities' Boss) was owned by the owner of Sport Records, as was Sir Rah Records.  They ALL have John L. Music, with at least half participation in the publishing, and, otherwise full participation.  The sharing participation is represented by Daedalian, Earlbarb, and Chatlee Music, which represent varying combinations of Pied Piper producers (Jack Ashford, Lorraine Chandler, Mike Terry, and possibly, Herbie Williams and Joe Hunter, etc.).  The overriding link is the owner of Sport, who likely financed all 3 labels.  The Pied Piper producers may have had some ownership participation in Boss and Sir Rah, but I think they were just production staff for Sport.  Sport also had some connection with Chicago, with, I believe, Andre Williams producing some cuts there.  Along with John L. Music, Super Sonic Sound Productions produced ALL productions of all 3 labels.  That's a group that, like John L. Music, represents the owner of Sport, and both Sport productions using Pied Piper people, and also those using other Detroiters, such as Johnny Allen and Andre Williams, and Dale Warren.  So, my guess is that Boss is NOT a Pied Piper label, but a label owned by Sport's owner, possibly as a joint venture with Pied Piper people, but, more likely to have been just hiring them to produce the sessions.  I doubt that there was a connection between Detroit's Giant Records and the Super Sonic Sound Productions labels, other than Pied Piper people working on their productions.

 

Reggie Alexander and Johnny Dixon were Detroit Soul singers who had some other Detroit Soul releases.  I remember seeing Johnny Dixon's name as a group member (but forget which group).  If I'm not mistaken, Jeen & Him were a Caucasian duo.  Jeen was probably named Jean Carter, writer of one of their songs.

 

I'll be curious to find out the real story of Sport, Boss and Sir Rah Records from Lorraine, rather than just conjecture.

thats interesting, the Andre Williams connection would link to that Melvin Davis 45, which is either a boot, or reissue discussed some time back, John L Brown - I'm Losing You / Like it is Productions Inc..

[Robbk]

Shelley Haims, the head of Pied Piper Productions, was, at least, co-owner of Sport Records (possibly along with Andrew Harris?).  Haims was listed as owner of that label on several sources.  Harris was listed as the owner and founder by a couple sources.  Could it be that either Harris, or Haims, was the linking co-owner of all 3 labels (Sport, Boss and Sir Rah), and that Boss and Sir Rah had other co-owners?  Could "John L. Brown" be a stage name for Andrew Harris, and the basis for the name of the publisher, "John L Music"?  I'm confident that Lorraine can answer these questions.

[Guest gaz thomas]

Lorraine's input could be soulful

[Guest gaz thomas]

Here's what Dave has on his 'Soulful Kinda Music' site for Detroit...

 

Boss (Detroit)

101 — Jeen & Him — You Ain't Gonna Get A Chance / The Party's Over

102 — Reggie Alexander — My Confession (To You) / It's Better

103 — Johnny Dixon & Super Sonic Strings — Where Are You / Inst.

103 — Joe L — It's Love Baby / Maria's Blues

 

Sliding westwards, same name of label, Ive always liked 'Rick & ray - One Look / Boss, which is listed as the Chicago 'Boss' Label on the same site, anybody got a scan? Ive never seen it and would love a copy..

 

 

Malcolm

 

that joe L 45 is not from the same production source

 

it just happened to have the same label name and cat number, nothing to do with our pied piper team 

 

its a very normal blues 45, nothing offensive, but not worth buying

 

I have asked this question before about Boss Records and its obvious 3 pied piper releases on this site a while ago

 

I thought I would mention again as I am still sort of interested in these three releases

 

And I still don't know the story, maybe we wont.

 

3 really interesting, intriguing  and worthwhile soulful additions to your collection  

 

but everyone who was pied piper seemed to have been doing something here

 

maybe it was the very last go at the project?

Edited May 9, 2014 by gaz thomas

[Mal C]

that joe L 45 is not from the same production source

 

it just happened to have the same label name and cat number, nothing to do with our pied piper team 

 

its a very normal blues 45, nothing offensive, but not worth buying

 

The source was from Dave Rimmer's 'Soulful Kinda Music' web site mate, it's not my listing...

Edited May 10, 2014 by Mal C

[Tony Smith]

The Joe-L 45 was a Valtone recording wasn't it?

 

And somewhere I remember reading the "Him" of Jeen & Hm was Sidney Barnes.

[Guest gaz thomas]

Thanks Tony

 

Jean Carter and Sidney Barnes - Jeen and Him - Make sense as the Sid Barnes wrote the tune with Andre Williams

 

Jean Carter wrote the b side 

 

I have just played it again, of course its Sidney Barnes, just hear the man wail !!!