As numbers attending venues in the UK falls, as I believe has been occuring for the past couple of years at least, how important is the internet and social networking sites (including soul-source) to maintaining the robust ties that have built up over many years between devotees fo the Northern Soul scene in the UK?

At the same time can we ask how much damage is being done to the foundations and longevity of the Northern Soul scene by the internet and social network sites, the convinient window on our desktops, the easy quick soul fix from the click of the mouse, the unknown soul sounds through the head phones and loud bold type rantings of opinion or syncophant venue reports from those who perhaps should not be allowed to have their voises heard over others who know better but type in a smaller font?

good one james...........my small observation is that lots of the social networking is now done on line ,well ott some of it, but i am an old git so . ................. this affects where people decide to go .......lots more people seem to go to niters but only till around 3or 4 these days, or to soul nites which seem to proliferate at the mo..........socially good niters are ,and i suppose prob always were more popular than cutting edge or obscure record playin venues.............................. to sum up ......good time party atmosphere first............music second ... ............regards ezzie

Edited January 14, 201015 yr by ezzie brown

In reply to your topic, I think that the reason that numbers may have fallen at venues, is the huge number of soul events that are happening at the moment. You only have to look at the Events Page on this website to notice that there has been a huge jump in the number, with many clashing with others on the same night. As for the social networking sites, i think they do help the scene by helping people to keep in touch with friends,and for any discussions about any topics they feel inclined to speak up about.

NRC

Great post James.

To answer the question we must first determine whether or not the internet was instrumental in the "Born again's", it is the born again's that have swelled the numbers and it is the born again's who leave (If in fact they are leaving?).

The influx of numbers onto the Northernsoul Scene is not a phenomenon; it can be seen on the Scootering as well.

(Going to stereotype here for ease) The numbers came from people reaching a certain age and having less parental responsibilities, more money, more time, mid life crises, a wealth of forgotten and unknown, unavailable music on CD plus concise sleeve notes making every one instant experts along with the ability to store and play thousands of music tracks on various formats.

We also have the "Soul Night" brigade who inherited a well trodden path and a formula that was as safe as houses (before the credit crunch I hasten to add).

There was also a real desire to revisit a musical past, forgotten and discarded but strongly ingrained within an imagined culture left over from one or two visits to The Casino and a constant drivel of fibs proclaiming a love for a music that is still a mystery with what ever kudos this brings?

I know this all sounds cynical but the fact that numbers are dropping just galvanizes my thoughts on this.

Back to the question of the internet, most got back into the "scene" at a local level and a little before the deluge of mouse clickers, Yoni's Northernsoul site and Mick Fitzpatrick's most excellent Night Owl site where trail blazers during a very small internet community of cyber Soulies and well and truly before the "Born again's" numbers so I doubt that the influx was in any way proportioned to the net.

As far as damage is being done to the foundations and longevity of the Northern Soul scene by the internet and social network sites, I say let the cull begin!

Back in a galaxy not too far from here we had a cadre of Allnighter goers who would get in things called a car and go to the Allnighters, very rarely would one clash and when I go out I see the same faces that I attended during the "Lean years"?

If Trev and Shaz are deciding to hang up their talc bottles and some of the venue organizers are feeling the pinch then so be it, it does not and will not affect the allnighters and that means it does not and will not affect "The Northernsoul Scene".

As far as feed back for and against venues written or commented on forums, facebook, twitter, blogs and the like, I have never read any report that completely dams, besides most people now days realise that as part of the internet experience large pinches of salt are required whenever we log on, every one (me included) has far too much to say and a bollox filter is yet to be invented?

As far as "sycophant venue reports" go, I think this is quite normal and healthy. Try visiting a website for an opinion on a holiday just to see a 50 50 conflict of opinion, the devil loves his advocates!

It is my opinion that our scene is stronger and better than ever before, not for numbers but for quality and passion.

Nice observations Imber!!!! Anyone else?

Essentially, does the internet and social networking sites make the scene a better place, a nicer, richer place to be, more transparent and informative, easier to discover and gather information?

Or is it slowly eroding the social and culturally siginficant contribution the UK Northern Soul scene has made to the preservation and celebration of otherwise forgotten genius from young black America and turn it into something that is ultimatly pointless?

Is having 1000 Facebook friends and making 200 posts a month on soul-source, praising the newie over the oldie, og vinyl over reish, Stafford was better than Wigan debates , and listening to a few tunes over your head phones enough to justify your belief that you are better, more important than your mundane 9-5 monday to friday existance suggests?

Is your contribution to the world over the internet, sat in front of your computer screen getting fatter, lazier, older and more irritating to those who just pop onto the internet to find out what parties are going on this weekend significant enough for you to be able to look yourself in the eye and say "yes, if I died tomorrow the world would be a worse place for it!"?

Edited January 14, 201015 yr by James Trouble

Edited January 14, 201015 yr by ken

Well must say some good and relevant posts on this and James good thread .

The main factor and just to reiterate whats been said yes numbers are dropping a tad IMO but for me the real culprit in this "TOO MANY VENUES" its simple mathematics many not all but many now choose to stay local to the detriment of the Scene in general. A few years ago venues dropped numbers picked up at some venues now we currently have shit loads more kicking off and numbers dropping again simple dilution then theres the cost too. However for me always have always will travel to find a venue its part of the night out.

And some venues are better now numbers have dropped a bit....... no tit heads

As for the internet yes it brought a lot of born agains back a good few have had their last flourish of NS and will more than like visit a do now and then when it suits . it as also brought some welcome new blood in some good some just annoying ( The type that pretend they have been on the scene since moses ,you know the type a good few out there must have bumped into them i know i have more than once and still do . They Pretend they were at the wheel, Torch etc.... and they always trip themselves up when they talk about venues , music etc ... why pretend who gives a flying Fu#k... One guy said to me once" i remember you Wicksy from Wheel and Torch no you did not Pal i didnt go i was too fu#king young " you and he couldnt have he was younger than me )

But on the whole i think the net for soul as been good and when a good few are fed up with it . there still will be enough folks doing what they enjoy listening to soul at a venue like we were doing in the late eigthies early nineties when the scene was fairly quiet and very much undergound with no pretenders .

Facebook and that Twitter cant see the point in it ..... well twitter anyway

THERES NO STOPPING IT WE ARE ALL GOING TO BE CYBORG SOULIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited January 15, 201015 yr by Naughty Boy

Hi James

Constructive post mate

Would have to say there are plus's and minus's to the internet revolution in all walk's of life ,but as far as the soul scene is concerned ,i think it's just part of the evolution of the scene.

It is still largely underground but allows people to interact better,to keep up with what's happening ,what's new ,where to go etc etc .

I know you don't like the "when i was a lad ,back in the day" storie's, but as a school kid ,i can remember load's of people being influenced by the scene.Wearing the soul clothes ,buying adidas bags to take your books to school ,covering em with fake wigan ,st ives,torch ,wheel anniversary badges ...buying little 50 count record boxes and filling em with casino classics.

Most of these people never set foot in a allnighter or back street soul night,it was just considered cool to look and act like a soulie .

for me when people tried to commercialise the scene back in the late 70's ,it spoilt thing's and for many of us it signalled the end of an era.

The internet has slowly done the same thing and thus created way too many venue's run by "wannabe" promotor's who don't respect the ethics of the scene ,who don't have the passion to keep thing's fresh,who's major concern is to fill a room,fill a floor and play the top 500 or safe tried and tested music on any format .

This for me is what has caused people to stop attending venues and inturn spend more time on a forum interacting with like minded people.

The internet for me ,allows me to keep up with friend's i've met ,hear new sound's ,find record's and to know what's on where and when.

As sure as day brings night ....the bubble will burst and the scene will once again be an underground scene .......hopefully sooner than later

For me the internet side of the scene has nothing to do with the going out side.

One is 'virtual' and the other is 'actual'.

As for decreasing attendance?

Yes there may be far too many venues on, but that is not helped by the fact that some promoters have two, three, four different allnighters/venues going at the same time.

my thoughts too

I like Facebook for keeping in touch with the USA side of things, which can filter through on to Soul-Source if there is anything ineresting to pass-mainly about Artists, forthcoming gigs or events which may be associated with the rare side of things.

Also being interested in the SOUL side of things in the UK a lot of stuff gets thrown up on FB that misses soul-source or EMS.

So face book would probably make me check out something that looks good or different in another part of the UK as well. Then I'd post up on Soul Source to let others know and spread the word.

Rob

Edited January 14, 201015 yr by Karen and Rob Wigley

Joan is completly right -one is virtual -one is actual-the internet is used by many many punters and in a way the prolification of nites have meant that "the net has provided the tool to advertise -but you know what you dont have to attend".I often get confused as to terms of reference "the british rare soul scene is miles apart from most soul nights and I do not believe that soul nights etc impact rare soul nighter/upfront dos etc-if so why did i not see loads of new faces at the ones I attended last year."WHAT I DID SEE WAS A LOAD OF PEOPLE IVE KNOWN SINCE THE EIGHTIES LOOKING OLDER MORE MOODY AND CONSIDERABLY FATTER AND UGLIER ".in some cases skinnier and uglier!!!

The net can be used to get to new sounds check out the threads in the audio section -thoushands and thousands of tunes not just northern-sweet-deep-gospel-funk-r/b etc,i dont beleive for one minute that these sounds been posted etc have kept me in the house -there have added to my collection and wants and in a way added to the enthusiasm and love for the music!!!The net is a tool but any scene is surely social -unless "YOU GEEK OUT IN THE HOUSE WITH YOUR NHS SPECS AND PLOT THE DOWNFALL OF THE BRITISH SOUL SCENE -dont think so -.

BAZ A

I like Facebook for keeping in touch with the USA side of things, which can filter through on to Soul-Source if there is anything ineresting to pass-mainly about Artists, forthcoming gigs or events which may be associated with the rare side of things.

Also being interested in the SOUL side of things in the UK a lot of stuff gets thrown up on FB that misses soul-source or EMS.

So face book would probably make me check out something that looks good or different in another part of the UK as well. Then I'd post up on Soul Source to let others know and spread the word.

Rob

Hey that FB is run by the secret services in the US,

Great post James.

ack to the question of the internet, most got back into the "scene" at a local level and a little before the deluge of mouse clickers, Yoni's Northernsoul site and Mick Fitzpatrick's most excellent Night Owl site where trail blazers during a very small internet community of cyber Soulies and well and truly before the "Born again's" numbers so I doubt that the influx was in any way proportioned to the net. out I see the same faces that I attended during the "Lean yea"?

HEY Sime is the imber still up .

Edited January 14, 201015 yr by Naughty Boy

For me the internet side of the scene has nothing to do with the going out side.

One is 'virtual' and the other is 'actual'.

As for decreasing attendance?

Yes there may be far too many venues on, but that is not helped by the fact that some promoters have two, three, four different allnighters/venues going at the same time.

spot on Joan; cheers billy

Can anyone see the irony of having this debate on an internet forum?

Virtually, I've had access to the internet almost since it started so i've been lurking about Soul forums for a good few years now.

Actually, I've been attending soul dos on and off since I was old enough to get past the door staff.

And yes I do think that the internet has influenced how the "actual" soul scene has developed -in many ways.

For years and year I went to places and just knew a few folk here and there and that was fine. Since KTF, NiteOWL (what was the other one called that Martin did?) I've probably met about 100 more people who I probably never would have talked to otherwise as I am a little bit shy in real life. Also "virtually" there are people on here who I chat to like one of the family and I've never met em!

It has to be a good thing, the fibbing is a problem but that has always gone on. I can remember lads in the 80s bragging about their record collection when we knew all they had at home was a couple of SOS labels and the Big Wheels of Motown LP. It's just easier now with the availibilty of information out there. But real life is the same-everybody is an expert on everything these days!

Edited January 14, 201015 yr by Reg

Can anyone see the irony of having this debate on an internet forum?

ooooooh Yes

All we do on tinternet is what we used to do on trains and busses on the way to nighters talk shite and take the piss out of each other spread romours and gossip . the reason we dont attend as many events is because we have all grown up and have other comitments plus there are to many events .

The interest is stil there and when I catch up with old mates the vast majority of them dont bother with the web at all . The scene was there long before the web but I doubt if I could manage without my daily Refosoul fix of new to my ears sounds

Can anyone see the irony of having this debate on an internet forum?

I for one would be too busy dancing and having a good time to have it at a venue

Hey that FB is run by the secret services in the US,

"I spy (for a Face Book Lie )" by the way I remember you at the Torch Rob--you'd dropped your packet of fags behind the decks and were using a torch to find them

as an aside ...........should or will internet access supplied for punters at nighters ?????????? gotta come ......... cant miss what our,or your facebook friends are saying........doin the ironing.......feedin the cat.........shagging the milkman..................never ending stream of STATUS reports.........the futures bright ,the futures...........inane droll dross...gotta go im on line at the mo

Can anyone see the irony of having this debate on an internet forum?

Mega

as an aside ...........should or will internet access supplied for punters at nighters ?????????? gotta come ......... cant miss what our,or your facebook friends are saying........doin the ironing.......feedin the cat.........shagging the milkman..................never ending stream of STATUS reports.........the futures bright ,the futures...........inane droll dross...gotta go im on line at the mo

Ezzie internet access was supplied at Sheridans nighters

Ezzie internet access was supplied at Sheridans nighters

Kym fuller, and myself, did writer up during the nighter at sheridans to soul source ,billy

"I spy (for a Face Book Lie )" by the way I remember you at the Torch Rob--you'd dropped your packet of fags behind the decks and were using a torch to find them

Is that " I SPY FOR THE FBi"

The all niter crowd is getting older and some can't keep it up like they did when a few years younger, less all niter crowd and still so many niters, you do the maths..

Thousands of soul nights too, many on the doorstep will keep a lot of folk from making the effort to travel.. Most folk start to collect at some point and want to play the records, if they don't get a spot someplace then they start their own night, who is to say if this is right or wrong????

Maybe its a case of burn out for a lot of folk and other irons in the fire too like family/ jobs/ health/ sanity..

I travel to events all over the uk and overseas, i think the scene is still massive, just splintered into thousands of small nights as folk get stubborn and set in their ways as to what sound they want.... Nothing wrong with that, we do our apprentiship, find what we really like and leave what we think is poor alone....

One thing the inernet does is to have soundfiles of rare soul that some download and then feel no need to attend certain venues to hear it... But is that a bad thing?? maybe the guy/ girl who can't get out anymore for various reasons will say the internet is keeping their rare soul passion alive..

Who are we to judge others.. Who are we to say whats right or wrong...

I have to say that soul-source ( i aint been on any other soul forums for more than one minute )adds to my soul intake and puts me in touch with many folk i would never have met, its made me go out to more events as i see them listed and talked about.. The forum does not rule over going out to events ever for me, i have the weekends for dancing and attending soul events and the week days/ nights for talking shite on here... a win win for me...

I know what i like.. I know what i want.. I just get on with it and gather around the people who feel the same way....

Off to bed now... Thats another place i like too..

RIP Teddy.... Another great soul is gone..

Get it while you can folks... Long time dead..

Nice observations Imber!!!! Anyone else?

Essentially, does the internet and social networking sites make the scene a better place, a nicer, richer place to be, more transparent and informative, easier to discover and gather information?

Or is it slowly eroding the social and culturally siginficant contribution the UK Northern Soul scene has made to the preservation and celebration of otherwise forgotten genius from young black America and turn it into something that is ultimatly pointless?

Is having 1000 Facebook friends and making 200 posts a month on soul-source, praising the newie over the oldie, og vinyl over reish, Stafford was better than Wigan debates , and listening to a few tunes over your head phones enough to justify your belief that you are better, more important than your mundane 9-5 monday to friday existance suggests?

Is your contribution to the world over the internet, sat in front of your computer screen getting fatter, lazier, older and more irritating to those who just pop onto the internet to find out what parties are going on this weekend significant enough for you to be able to look yourself in the eye and say "yes, if I died tomorrow the world would be a worse place for it!"?

This is probably the most arrogant, self-indulgent post I've ever read on here.

Who the flying f*ck are you to say when and where others can and can't listen to the music they love.

Who are you to say that anyone who did other things rarther than going to niters in the 80s and has returned to whatever fooking do they choose somehow doesn't count to this scene now.

Who the tw*tting hell are you to say that someone who loves soul music but only listens on the web is any less a soul lover than you!!!

In fact who the sodding hell are you!!!!.

More red wine induced ranting from yours truley.

I thank you and good night.

KTF.

Drew.

The internet is a part of culture that embraces things since it started. if you take soul away think of it like people who use twitter and facebook and don't go out.

personally my thinking is if you go out and enjoy nights, buy CD's/records, read magazines on soul etc there is no reason to say i can spend a little time online to meet new people, go on fourms, buy things, find out about nights, talk about where you been etc. We can do as we like and please and can't just let people decide. I met people on here and then they see me out and say hello.

I would like to finish off with why would people if so have a go at the so called ones who come back on the scene after say a 80's or 90's period of not going. They have reasons ie my dad got married and then i was born so until i was older decided to get back out in the last 10 years

keep the faith and do as you please not what people tell you to

Some great responses so far.

I really liked Ken's reply before he edited it out, which was argueing for the importance of social networking at a time in his life when he is having difficulties getting out to allnighters. And Drew's response is a good illustration of what is slowly turning 'this online thing' into something that is, arguably and ultimately, pointless.

Is it in danger of becoming an ocean of worthless print, a zillion words of self congratulating waffle, without editorial, everyman for himself, chaotic clogging drivel undermining the good work places like soul-source do to our culture?

Another thought, can soul-source be held in such high regard with it's contribution to the Northern Soul Scene as a venue? Is it as important today as the Wigan Casino, or Stafford, or the 100 Club? Is it right to compare them?

Edited January 15, 201015 yr by James Trouble

Some great responses so far.

I really liked Ken's reply before he edited it out, which was argueing for the importance of social networking at a time in his life when he is having difficulties getting out to allnighters. And Drew's response is a good illustration of how the internet and social networking is eroding the socially and culturally siginificant work the Northern Soul Scene does through the preservation and celebration of otherwise forgotten young black American soul music in clubs across the UK and the rest of world. Drew and her post is a great example of what is slowly turning 'this online thing' into something that is, arguably and ultimately, pointless.

Another thought, can soul-source be held in such high regard with it's contribution to the Northern Soul Scene as a venue? Is it as important today as the Wigan Casino, or Stafford, or the 100 Club? Is it right to compare them?

it's so awesome that you think that by making the music more available it makes it pointless and the way to preserve the legacy of "forgotten young black American soul music" is to censor it so that it's only available in soul clubs. how self-absorbed in your scene and divorced from reality do you have to be to think that? I'm sure the artists would rather stay in obscurity with their records covered up under a piece of paper in a dark nightclub than actually be enjoyed by people on their ipods, cars, computers, reissued onto CD, etc. and maybe even get paid royalties and eventually do shows. You're really doing them a favor.

You can argue for keeping music in clubs, etc., for your own specific reasons in preserving your scene but don't pretend you're somehow preserving the music that way or the legacy of the artists, what a joke.

it's so awesome that you think that by making the music more available it makes it pointless and the way to preserve the legacy of "forgotten young black American soul music" is to censor it so that it's only available in soul clubs. how self-absorbed in your scene and divorced from reality do you have to be to think that? I'm sure the artists would rather stay in obscurity with their records covered up under a piece of paper in a dark nightclub than actually be enjoyed by people on their ipods, cars, computers, reissued onto CD, etc. and maybe even get paid royalties and eventually do shows. You're really doing them a favor.

You can argue for keeping music in clubs, etc., for your own specific reasons in preserving your scene but don't pretend you're somehow preserving the music that way or the legacy of the artists, what a joke.

A not very interesting post but it highlights some important points.

If old soul music was only listened to on ipods, computers and in cars there would be no society or culture surrounding it. I think most commentators on the Northern Soul Scene recognise that it is about more than just the music, it is socially and culturally more important than simply being about preserving old music for people to listen to in their cars or on the train while they slowly live out their mundane existance, before they die and are forgotten about, having contributed nothing but the taxes they pay to the society they live in.

That is the important theme of this thread. How does the internet and social networking sites contribute to, or degrade, what makes the "Northern Soul Scene" such a special place.

Hard for a Yank in a car to understand, maybe

Edited January 15, 201015 yr by James Trouble

As numbers attending venues in the UK falls, as I believe has been occuring for the past couple of years at least, how important is the internet and social networking sites (including soul-source) to maintaining the robust ties that have built up over many years between devotees fo the Northern Soul scene in the UK?

At the same time can we ask how much damage is being done to the foundations and longevity of the Northern Soul scene by the internet and social network sites, the convinient window on our desktops, the easy quick soul fix from the click of the mouse, the unknown soul sounds through the head phones and loud bold type rantings of opinion or syncophant venue reports from those who perhaps should not be allowed to have their voises heard over others who know better but type in a smaller font?

Hi James,first of all happy new year,slighty off topic. I haven't seen the post on SS before christmas but i've heard from a good source. You came on here saying you gave up promoting your venue because your girlfriend was very ill, fair do's,and she came on a little bit later,first post ever saying what the hell you talking about James, why dont you be true to yourself and say that the venue you were doing was not pulling the crowd in. Theres nothing wrong with being honest. As they say you can't keep a good man down you'll be up again and trying. See you out and about James.

Billy

edit, dodgy html...

Edited January 15, 201015 yr by James Trouble

Hi James,first of all happy new year,slighty off topic. I haven't seen the post on SS before christmas but i've heard from a good source. You came on here saying you gave up promoting your venue because your girlfriend was very ill, fair do's,and she came on a little bit later,first post ever saying what the hell you talking about James, why dont you be true to yourself and say that the venue you were doing was not pulling the crowd in. Theres nothing wrong with being honest. As they say you can't keep a good man down you'll be up again and trying. See you out and about James.

Billy

Erm, hi Billy. Good to hear the chinese whispers working well, so this is actually slightly on topic for this thread and a good example of how the internet and social networking sites can have a negative impact on the scene.

The girl in question is Katie, not my girlfriend, she's a local lass, who I have promoted with in Chelmsford for a number of years. We were getting punters in, lowest turn out was 80, in a venue that holds 150, most events were sell outs. But I pulled out because the bulk of promotion is done by her, and she is facing a massive operation so will be out of action for a while. Without huge promotion in a town center venue all you will get through the door are wallys off the street, which the past 3 months we had quite a few of, asking for The Verve, Spice Girls and Duffy (the worst request was from a teenage gay lad, who had obviously just 'come out' who kept badgering me for Diana Ross, YMCA and in the end got aggressive screaming "look would you just play any gay music for me!" I told him Simon M was guest DJ next month). I am not prepared to put up with punters, who through no fault of their own, do not know what the night is about and are only there for a late night piss up.

Katie did not come on saying I was talking rubbish about her illness, she came on because she felt she was getting the blame for the venue failing. It finished because I am not in a position to fill in the gaps in the promotion that is left from Katie's illness putting her out of action, at times. Which means we were not getting the quality of punters in that I expect to be DJing to. So I stopped it because I am not able to promote it when Katie is ill to the extent that I feel is needed to force out the wallys that my ego and arrogance are unable to cope with.

So if you hear from those twisted nutters in the real world who are on Facebook spreading lies and stiring up a hornets nest over this, tell them to STFU with their lies and venom spitting. I'd appreciate that, thanks Billy.

James, I remember that night after Deep funk when we stayed at Keb's and you and Keb sat at his PC late into the next day whilst he 'educated you' about northern using Soulclub to point out the tunes you ought to be buying. It was a sort of strangely portentious Darth Vader/Frankenstein type scene : a monster being created right there at that computer, all done with a few clicks of a mouse. Don't underestimate the power of the internet in creating tomorrow's nightclubbing monsters.

James, I remember that night after Deep funk when we stayed at Keb's and you and Keb sat at his PC late into the next day whilst he 'educated you' about northern using Soulclub to point out the tunes you ought to be buying. It was a sort of strangely portentious Darth Vader/Frankenstein type scene : a monster being created right there at that computer, all done with a few clicks of a mouse. Don't underestimate the power of the internet in creating tomorrow's nightclubbing monsters.

They were good days.

But, perhaps you could argue that it was Keb and the culture that surrounded Deepfunk at the time and in the run up to it that created the Frankenstein or Darth Vader or whatever derogatory metaphor you want to use? Not the internet, and certainly not social networking or soul-source, which at the time were barely twinkles in the vastness of cyberspace.

A fair point though, but as an example to celebrate the merits of the internet and social networking I don't think it holds water, as I got into funk and soul music pre internet days, and the spark that got my personal interest in Northern Soul going was the 100 Club, the culture and passion that Ady has built up around it, and specifically the records that Butch hit me with at a time when Keb was no longer really doing the business. Not how he had been doing when I first stumbled upon Madame Jo Jo's by chance on a summer's Sunday night in 1996 and I was booking him to DJ at my club night "Cookie Jar" in Reading 1998/1999 time. When he used to stop the music and tell the wallys to 'piss off next door if they want to drink beer on the dance floor'. The excitment of Butch's tunes and the passion, dedication and 'suffer no fools' attitude of the crowd at the 100 Club made me realise how important for me the Northern Soul Scene was to become. Nothing to do with internet, soul-source of social networking.

Has anyone on here got into 'the scene' through social network sites?

Has anyone on here got into 'the scene' through social network sites?

Not so much got into it, James, but since the late 90s the internet and the forums have certainly put me in touch with a lot of great people who I now class as friends, not just in the UK but worldwide, most of whom I would never have met had it not been for the forums etc., and also it's enabled me to find and acquire music I wouldn't ordinarily have go into the collection, so that's very much the plus side. The network sites are a bit like a credit card, if you use them wisely they can work very well for you, but if you let them take control they can work against you, quite badly sometimes as both you and I have found to our cost. The real downside though is the often needless negativity they can bring.

The key is to not take it all too seriously imvho.

Roger

The key is to not take it all too seriously imvho.

Roger

Which means we were not getting the quality of punters in that I expect to be DJing to.

Spat my coffee out!

errrr.... your tongue is in your cheek there, yes?

They were good days.

But, perhaps you could argue that it was Keb and the culture that surrounded Deepfunk at the time and in the run up to it that created the Frankenstein or Darth Vader or whatever derogatory metaphor you want to use? Not the internet, and certainly not social networking or soul-source, which at the time were barely twinkles in the vastness of cyberspace.

A fair point though, but as an example to celebrate the merits of the internet and social networking I don't think it holds water, as I got into funk and soul music pre internet days, and the spark that got my personal interest in Northern Soul going was the 100 Club, the culture and passion that Ady has built up around it, and specifically the records that Butch hit me with at a time when Keb was no longer really doing the business. Not how he had been doing when I first stumbled upon Madame Jo Jo's by chance on a summer's Sunday night in 1996 and I was booking him to DJ at my club night "Cookie Jar" in Reading 1998/1999 time. When he used to stop the music and tell the wallys to 'piss off next door if they want to drink beer on the dance floor'. The excitment of Butch's tunes and the passion, dedication and 'suffer no fools' attitude of the crowd at the 100 Club made me realise how important for me the Northern Soul Scene was to become. Nothing to do with internet, soul-source of social networking.

Has anyone on here got into 'the scene' through social network sites?

I've got into social networking sites through this scene... so many old friends from St Ives, Peterborough , EASC, 100 club, that I've tracked down through this site and Faecesbook etc.. Are we the twisted nutters in the real world you mention , James ? Funny, the older elements and nearly everybody on this scene from my experience enjoy themselves, are respectful and humble ( crackers too, a lot of us ) ... The concept of self promotion on the scene has always been regarded with suspicion as people in the scene for personal motives only have always been frowned upon...

I'm still confused as to what your real motives are for these posts, James. Have you a new night in the offing or trying to repair self- inflicted credibility damage. Social networking damaging the scene.. odd thought.. irrelevant I think.

I find your namechecking of venues like Stafford and Wigan that you never attended a bit bizarre too..

You resisted Northern for years telling Keb, myself, Ian and anyone who would listen how rubbish it was and how funk, then disco then rockabilly was more exciting.. Your real motivation has always been your overwhelming desire to be a top DJ on a scene, no matter what ...

I hope this post doesn't come across as a personal James bashing exercise, its not.. I just find it all a bit too anno domini JT and please remember me and my nights.. Get back to loving the music and loving this brilliant scene for all its plus points and more than that the legacy of incredible music the soul artists have left.. Peace !

Some great responses so far.

I really liked Ken's reply before he edited it out, which was argueing for the importance of social networking at a time in his life when he is having difficulties getting out to allnighters. And Drew's response is a good illustration of what is slowly turning 'this online thing' into something that is, arguably and ultimately, pointless.

Is it in danger of becoming an ocean of worthless print, a zillion words of self congratulating waffle, without editorial, everyman for himself, chaotic clogging drivel undermining the good work places like soul-source do to our culture?

Another thought, can soul-source be held in such high regard with it's contribution to the Northern Soul Scene as a venue? Is it as important today as the Wigan Casino, or Stafford, or the 100 Club? Is it right to compare them?

Hi James.As ever thought provoking.

The internet wasn't designed to be abused,take over people's lives etc.For some at certain times,its the only way of keeping in touch with the "outside world".

Health issues,families, relationships,( even grandparenting duties - it'll come to you as well james),all prevent the soul community from getting out and about.

Therefore SS has its place.

The main problem is prioritising.If social networking,at an age when you should know better becomes a problem - stop doing it .!!!

The use of the internet regarding the music.There's no doubt the internet(SS,ebay,all the sellers) has opened up the rare scene to one and all.The gap between the top dj's and the next level is narrowing.Maybe never to be closed,but narrowing.

Surely you aren't suggesting that going to "Back in the Day",would be better - BI (Before Internet).?.When a handful of known players ran the scene.?.That sounds like you're harking back to an heirarchial set up.

The internet has made the top dj's work that little bit harder to stay ahead.All the better for it.

btw,my son is on Facefist.He says thanks for the txts in the past about Soul Rev.

One last thing.If things start to get on top of you.Step away from the keyboard.

I've got into social networking sites through this scene... so many old friends from St Ives, Peterborough , EASC, 100 club, that I've tracked down through this site and Faecesbook etc.. Are we the twisted nutters in the real world you mention , James ? Funny, the older elements and nearly everybody on this scene from my experience enjoy themselves, are respectful and humble ( crackers too, a lot of us ) ... The concept of self promotion on the scene has always been regarded with suspicion as people in the scene for personal motives only have always been frowned upon...

I'm still confused as to what your real motives are for these posts, James. Have you a new night in the offing or trying to repair self- inflicted credibility damage. Social networking damaging the scene.. odd thought.. irrelevant I think.

I find your namechecking of venues like Stafford and Wigan that you never attended a bit bizarre too..

You resisted Northern for years telling Keb, myself, Ian and anyone who would listen how rubbish it was and how funk, then disco then rockabilly was more exciting.. Your real motivation has always been your overwhelming desire to be a top DJ on a scene, no matter what ...

I hope this post doesn't come across as a personal James bashing exercise, its not.. I just find it all a bit too anno domini JT and please remember me and my nights.. Get back to loving the music and loving this brilliant scene for all its plus points and more than that the legacy of incredible music the soul artists have left.. Peace !

Russ, read the forum's terms of use before replying to this thread again.

Spat my coffee out!

errrr.... your tongue is in your cheek there, yes?

You would like to think so. But I'm an arrogant egotistical twat, so perhaps not

Edited January 15, 201015 yr by James Trouble

You would like to think so. But I'm an arrogant egotistical twat, so perhaps not

Hilarious!

On the web we tend to over analyse and dissect every aspect of the scene , almost as if we think we are the custodians of it news flash we are not .

There are thousands of soul fans not on the web its not a crucial factor , getting out there sweating your bollocks off on a Saturday night is .

My daughter cant arrange a night out now without facebook and a million text messages back and forth and this is progress? .

See you next Saturday half seven outside Merseyway and people would be there. no mobiles or facebook easy innit .

Erm, hi Billy. Good to hear the chinese whispers working well, so this is actually slightly on topic for this thread and a good example of how the internet and social networking sites can have a negative impact on the scene.

The girl in question is Katie, not my girlfriend, she's a local lass, who I have promoted with in Chelmsford for a number of years. We were getting punters in, lowest turn out was 80, in a venue that holds 150, most events were sell outs. But I pulled out because the bulk of promotion is done by her, and she is facing a massive operation so will be out of action for a while. Without huge promotion in a town center venue all you will get through the door are wallys off the street, which the past 3 months we had quite a few of, asking for The Verve, Spice Girls and Duffy (the worst request was from a teenage gay lad, who had obviously just 'come out' who kept badgering me for Diana Ross, YMCA and in the end got aggressive screaming "look would you just play any gay music for me!" I told him Simon M was guest DJ next month). I am not prepared to put up with punters, who through no fault of their own, do not know what the night is about and are only there for a late night piss up.

Katie did not come on saying I was talking rubbish about her illness, she came on because she felt she was getting the blame for the venue failing. It finished because I am not in a position to fill in the gaps in the promotion that is left from Katie's illness putting her out of action, at times. Which means we were not getting the quality of punters in that I expect to be DJing to. So I stopped it because I am not able to promote it when Katie is ill to the extent that I feel is needed to force out the wallys that my ego and arrogance are unable to cope with.

So if you hear from those twisted nutters in the real world who are on Facebook spreading lies and stiring up a hornets nest over this, tell them to STFU with their lies and venom spitting. I'd appreciate that, thanks Billy.

o,k

As with most of the threads you instigate, I regularly find myself trying to understand what you're trying to achieve. Most seem to be scripted to provoke polar views and just antagonise, rather than promote debate and thoughtful and positive discussion.

This latest thread seems to be no different. To infer that social networking might be detrimental to the club scene, and even a contributory cause to reducing numbers attending club nights (which is not a trend I recognise, but anyway) is just another cynical attempt to provoke.

I would think it far more likely that social networking, and this site specifically has promoted greater interest in the club scene, and in particular the greater exposure of fresher music to encourage venue attendance. Sure there'll be plenty that'll be happy to get their fix from Soul Source and other sites, without feeling the need to attend club nights, but I don't see anything wrong with that. They will almost certainly contribute new music for others more inclined to get their soul fix at venues, and still indirectly promote and be involved in the scene.

To sum up, it's not case of either/or, they're complimentary.

Edited January 15, 201015 yr by Wrongcrowd

Russ, read the forum's terms of use before replying to this thread again.

Err why James?

Can't see anything wrong with the quoted post.

You would like to think so. But I'm an arrogant egotistical twat, so perhaps not

Perhaps you best read the forum's terms of use yourself if using language like that

A not very interesting post but it highlights some important points.

If old soul music was only listened to on ipods, computers and in cars there would be no society or culture surrounding it. I think most commentators on the Northern Soul Scene recognise that it is about more than just the music, it is socially and culturally more important than simply being about preserving old music for people to listen to in their cars or on the train while they slowly live out their mundane existance, before they die and are forgotten about, having contributed nothing but the taxes they pay to the society they live in.

That is the important theme of this thread. How does the internet and social networking sites contribute to, or degrade, what makes the "Northern Soul Scene" such a special place.

Hard for a Yank in a car to understand, maybe

love the condescending attitude. at least you didn't call me a woman... I wasn't commenting on the "northern soul scene" (which you are focused on), I was responding to your comment about preserving the legacy of African-American Music which extends far beyond the northern soul scene but which you are too embedded in to see. If you limit your comments to the "northern soul scene" that's fine with me.

You would like to think so. But I'm an arrogant egotistical twat, so perhaps not

James you need your friend back