This thread may well have been done before, I suspect it has, just couldn't find it.

Take a look at these 3 recent sales. Nowhere does the seller say they're pressings, when I asked he said "yes". People

have paid far too much for these and will now either not know they've bought a pressing or will have to go through the

drama of a refund (with the oh so wonderful assistance of Ebay) If I could I do something I would, what's to be done ??

https://cgi.ebay.co.u...T#ht_514wt_1139

https://cgi.ebay.co.u...T#ht_514wt_1139

https://cgi.ebay.co.u...T#ht_514wt_1139

Edited July 30, 201113 yr by Chris L

This thread may well have been done before, I suspect it has, just couldn't find it.

Take a look at these 3 recent sales. Nowhere does the seller say they're pressings, when I asked he said "yes". People

have paid far too much for these and will now either not know they've bought a pressing or will have to go through the

drama of a refund (with the oh so wonderful assistance of Ebay) If I could I do something I would, what's to be done ??

https://cgi.ebay.co.u...T#ht_514wt_1139

https://cgi.ebay.co.u...T#ht_514wt_1139

https://cgi.ebay.co.u...T#ht_514wt_1139

Agree Chris ...there are too many sellers on ebay ,usually from Uk ,who are selling re-issue / boots and being very cute with the details.

Usually evasive regarding the use of the word "original".

There's a del larks on now that is clearly a boot / 2nd issue but the owner states that he's not sure if its original but he's had it for yrs.

I suspect a small percentage are genuinely ignorant about authenticity but most are just chancers hoping to dupe naive buyers.

I suppose you could report the seller but you'd be a busy man if you wanted to follow that route.

It may sound harsh but to me its really upto the people bidding to do the research before bidding.

It's never been easier to find information ,guide books,Popsike images..Google search etc etc.

Remember..."ignorance is bliss"

Agree Chris ...there are too many sellers on ebay ,usually from Uk ,who are selling re-issue / boots and being very cute with the details.

Usually evasive regarding the use of the word "original". There's a del larks on now that is clearly a boot / 2nd issue but the owner states that he's not sure if its original but he's had it for yrs. I suspect a small percentage are genuinely ignorant about authenticity but most are just chancers hoping to dupe naive buyers. I suppose you could report the seller but you'd be a busy man if you wanted to follow that route. It may sound harsh but to me its really upto the people bidding to do the research before bidding. It's never been easier to find information ,guide books,Popsike images..Google search etc etc.

Remember..."ignorance is bliss"

When I tackled the seller his answer was "I never said it was an original"...................

i just had a seller feign ignorance over a look alike boot too, hadn't got a working camera good enough to take close up pictures, and then waited until auction had finished before answering any of my specific questions, then said he wasn't sure he'd had the record for ages, although he didn't know why as it was the worst record he ever heard! - Had a few northern & mod things for sale, and a couple of them were labelled "orig" - obviously not quite as clueless as he made out

Dont bother reporting him to e-bay ,your pissing in the wind

Dont bother reporting him to e-bay ,your pissing in the wind

Your probably right ...theyre in this to make money ,and from previous threads on here regarding reporting sellers who blatantly sell boots...theyre still on there ...infact more so than ever!

Was gonna suggest we have a place on here for listing dodgy sellers ..but i honestly think it could lead to some innocent sellers getting wrongly listed ..

so maybe the only thing left is for anyone who has been caught out .....LEAVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK !

And lastly ...before you spend your hard earned on a rare record ..make sure you do all the neccessary research

i always find it hard to believe people who spend the amount some of these tunes are making havnt got a guide!....are they that minted they dont give a shit about it being a boot and just cant wait for a proper one?...or maybe they dont actually know about the bootlegging side to northern?

crazy baby...indeed!

dean

The seller is Ray Copley - I'm pretty sure he's a member on here.

Whilst he doesn't state Original in any of the auctions, his wording and pricing does lend to presumption that they are.

Bit naughty if you ask me.

Agree Chris ...there are too many sellers on ebay ,usually from Uk ,who are selling re-issue / boots and being very cute with the details.

Usually evasive regarding the use of the word "original".

There's a del larks on now that is clearly a boot / 2nd issue but the owner states that he's not sure if its original but he's had it for yrs.

I suspect a small percentage are genuinely ignorant about authenticity but most are just chancers hoping to dupe naive buyers.

I suppose you could report the seller but you'd be a busy man if you wanted to follow that route.

It may sound harsh but to me its really upto the people bidding to do the research before bidding.

It's never been easier to find information ,guide books,Popsike images..Google search etc etc.

Remember..."ignorance is bliss"

HI NEV,

I dont think there is a real problem with people selling boots/re-issues etc as we are all aware that in demand records are booted and sold on e-bay as a matter of regular occurance, it is something that happens now and has been happening since as far back as 1972.

The problem becomes a major issue when the seller employs dubious ethics in order to maximise the auction price. That is he is vague in his description of the item,economical with the truth and evasive when questioned about the said item.

Most collecters with a reasonable amount of knowledge can spot a boot amile away but likewise there are those unsuspecting enthusiasts who are a little wet around the ears who unfortunately get duped into paying silly prices.

I myself have bought quite a few boots/re-issues for my own listening pleasure which i will be seling soon, probably on e-bay but my description of the items will be honest and truthfull and the price will reflect this.

Apologies to all collectors of original vynlil if my opinion offends but it is only my opinion!

regards ROY

Well we had a pretty heated discussion the other day regarding boots v. OVO.

I am pretty laid back about that because I doubt there is much of an intention to deceive.

However misleading and ambiguous sales tactics are definitely a No-No.

If they're on here, then they shouldn't be.

Caveat emptor is no defence.

ROD

Most people who collect records know the difference between originals and reissues, when I was buying them for a quid from Russ's record booth at the casino in 1976 I was peffectly aware that I wasn't buying an original, so to say you've had it for a long time and can't remember anything about it is b*llocks really, all you have to do is write one of the words reissue, 2nd issue, pressing, boot , then nobody is in doubt that you're being honest. If you don't do that, and leave it ambiguous, then as far as I'm concerned, you're trying to pull a fast one.

Most people who collect records know the difference between originals and reissues, when I was buying them for a quid from Russ's record booth at the casino in 1976 I was peffectly aware that I wasn't buying an original, so to say you've had it for a long time and can't remember anything about it is b*llocks really, all you have to do is write one of the words reissue, 2nd issue, pressing, boot , then nobody is in doubt that you're being honest. If you don't do that, and leave it ambiguous, then as far as I'm concerned, you're trying to pull a fast one.

PETE,

I DONT AGREE WITH YOU ON MANY OF YOUR POSTS BUT ON THIS OCCASION I AM WITH YOU 100%.

ROY

Most people who collect records know the difference between originals and reissues, when I was buying them for a quid from Russ's record booth at the casino in 1976 I was peffectly aware that I wasn't buying an original, so to say you've had it for a long time and can't remember anything about it is b*llocks really, all you have to do is write one of the words reissue, 2nd issue, pressing, boot , then nobody is in doubt that you're being honest. If you don't do that, and leave it ambiguous, then as far as I'm concerned, you're trying to pull a fast one.

Pete

Some of those 70s pressings (especially the Capitol twins) cannot really be separated from the real thing, unless you ask the seller, the labels

are spot on.

Pete

Some of those 70s pressings (especially the Capitol twins) cannot really be separated from the real thing, unless you ask the seller, the labels

are spot on.

Yes but the sellers will know

It kind of gives the lie to the argument on previous threads that it's cheaper to buy boots. I haven't paid those kind of prices for originals for a long time. It seems to cost a fortune to put together a playbox of classic oldies on boots.

I'd like to hear for once from someone who has bought one of these their reasons for doing so because I don't have a clue why anyone would buy one other than either pure ignorance (in which case I am sorry they were ripped off), or a disregard for the cost (in which case they are idiots).

Edited July 30, 201113 yr by Matt Male

This thread may well have been done before, I suspect it has, just couldn't find it.

Take a look at these 3 recent sales. Nowhere does the seller say they're pressings, when I asked he said "yes". People

have paid far too much for these and will now either not know they've bought a pressing or will have to go through the

drama of a refund (with the oh so wonderful assistance of Ebay) If I could I do something I would, what's to be done ??

https://cgi.ebay.co.u...T#ht_514wt_1139

https://cgi.ebay.co.u...T#ht_514wt_1139

https://cgi.ebay.co.u...T#ht_514wt_1139

Perhaps his seller's name is the give-away:

'Copy208'

It kind of gives the lie to the argument on previous threads that it's cheaper to buy boots. I haven't paid those kind of prices for originals for a long time. It seems to cost a fortune to put together a playbox of classic oldies on boots.

I'd like to hear for once from someone who has bought one of these their reasons for doing so because I don't have a clue why anyone would buy one other than either pure ignorance (in which case I am sorry they were ripped off), or a disregard for the cost (in which case they are idiots).

Top post, agree completely Matt

It kind of gives the lie to the argument on previous threads that it's cheaper to buy boots. I haven't paid those kind of prices for originals for a long time. It seems to cost a fortune to put together a playbox of classic oldies on boots.

I'd like to hear for once from someone who has bought one of these their reasons for doing so because I don't have a clue why anyone would buy one other than either pure ignorance (in which case I am sorry they were ripped off), or a disregard for the cost (in which case they are idiots).

The last one I bought was the first (boot) press of John & The Weirdest on Tie. Bought it because someone had offered me £50 for mine, needed the money, so I sold it, then bought it a week later for half that price.

Whilst I applaud the ethics in this thread there is a part of me who says "you pays your money - you takes your choice".

The records sold on ebay may have been bought buy somebody who doesn't know or even care whether that piece of plastic they bought is original - if it gives them pleasure that is all that matters to them.

i am not an expert never will be ,

i sold a boot / reissue call it what you like of the tymes on parkway west coast design after consulting manships book and this site on the bay and i still had people asking me if i had got it right and that it looked real. sold for £21 and even i had to take a second look and ask questions on here.

but it was a moulded label nothing in the deadwax except the release number scratched in and did not look like any of the white demos put up on the thread so i'm pretty sure not 100 % though.

so if joe bloggs on the street probably into northern then but moved on when wigan closed finds his boots in the attic and puts them on the bay would he know?i think not

kev

It frustrates the shit out of me when I see people selling Boots and not stating that they are . If you look at some of the sellers they are also selling some originals and will state that they are originals , so you cant believe that they dont know when they are selling a boot. Also if they have enough knowledge to state that a record has a Monarch stamp you would think that they do have a certain amount of knowledge about records.

Cheers

Swifty

so if joe bloggs on the street probably into northern then but moved on when wigan closed finds his boots in the attic and puts them on the bay would he know?i think not

kev

Have to disagree as I've posted above, I knew they were boots before Wigan closed, they don't become originals after years in hibernation.

Edited July 31, 201113 yr by Pete S

I emailed EvilBay many times (about 5/6 years back) suggesting they have a simple framework, a tick selection

• This is an Original 45
  
• I believe this to be an Original 45, but am uncertain
  
• This is a legit 2nd issue
  
• This is a later copy or bootleg
  
• I don't know
  

The categories were different and better thought through but you get the gist

Unsurprisingly they weren't interested................

eBay cannot officially allow the sale of bootlegs / counterfeits (even though it is flooded with them) so the list above could not be used.

A few years ago I put a compilation LP up on eBay, and that was pulled because I stated I was unsure of it's legality.

I find the following statement (with the appropriate deletions) in my auctions is clear enough to inform the buyer, but fits within ebays rules:

This is not an original 1960s/70s press - it is a 1970s/80s/90s/00s press created to fill demand on the Northern soul/Popcorn/Mod scene

Copy 208? err! is it just me or isn't a copy, replica a boot the same, the name says it all really but pretty shameless to do it to pepe not in the know.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Northern-Soul-Coasters-Crazy-Baby-/140582566578?pt=UK_Records&hash=item20bb5fbab2

another ambiguous one, he's given the run off number just to be on the safe side, hasn't mentioned if it's got AT scratched in though

I contacted Ebay several times but they arnt interested - The best one was Do I love you Boot (Eddie Foster) when I tried to tell them that this artist had never recorded it and it was originally recorded in the US on Soul records etc and copied and pasted the full story re FW they just went silent and refused to communicate with me. So they know that they are allowing illegal copies being sold on their site.

Its the sheer deception I dont like and its bloody obvious - even the recent one with Bits & Pieces- how he blatantly put original but no mention of the Coasters whether a boot or orig!

Why does anyone buy these today was a question asked - Dead simple!

Back in the 70s it was the only way apart from a crap tape to get the tune to play at home or the youth club.

Today its for one reason only - Its to have their 15 minutes of fame as a DJ because they are lazy and crap at DJing (Which to me is an art in Soul music and takes time and effort to get it relatively right)

Edited July 31, 201113 yr by Ernie Andrews

https://www.ebay.co.u...=item20bb5fbab2

another ambiguous one, he's given the run off number just to be on the safe side, hasn't mentioned if it's got AT scratched in though

I'd rather have that Sound Of The Grapevine Lp it's lieing on

I wonder how ebay would react if someone decided to hold them responsible for selling boots, they are hosting these sales afterall, and took them to court over it. I imagine it would be difficult for them to claim ignorance since so many point in out regularly.

I understand the reasons why people buy boots. I don't understand why anyone would pay these prices for boots.

Edited July 31, 201113 yr by Matt Male

I wonder how ebay would react if someone decided to hold them responsible for selling boots, they are hosting these sales afterall, and took them to court over it. I imagine it would be difficult for them to claim ignorance since so many point in out regularly.

ebay has a specific procedure for reporting copyright infringement. any user can go through the "report" button and there is a different mechanism that allows copyright owners themselves to make claims. If they aren't ignoring the claims, I don't think they would be liable. It's not like it's ebay's job to monitor random message boards.

The most bonkers thing is that anyone wishing to check authenticity of any tunes for sale on Ebay, just have to put a link up and ask the fountain of knowledge on this site.

But £100 for something like a James Bounty boot is fricking ridiculous. At this rate boots will be selling for more than some origionals,

Concerning people buying them, I have no sympathy as likesaid they can EASILY check for validation, and I dare say if the geezers or others selling them can get away with it they will, pretty unscrupulous though.

Kev

Most people who collect records know the difference between originals and reissues, ...

Yes, one would like to think so...but just a few months back I noticed a very known DJ buying a very expensive (almost 300 USD) bootleg and I couldnt believe it (dont bother asking who I wouldnt name him in public). Obviously not everybody knows everything and sadly some even cant be bothered to do their research homework properly before bidding ... a shame really , but I am with Nev on this one, the buyers are almost as much to blame as the sellers. It always takes two to tango...

NB

Am I the only one being so deeply annoyed by those bloody Popcorn bootlegs and high price listings..wish someone would "kill" these listings LOL...started to extract -popcorn now from every single search i do on ebay...so bloody annoying. Someone did buy a Popcorn Clarence Hill WDJ boot the other day for almost 500 USD...!..

Yes, one would like to think so...but just a few months back I noticed a very known DJ buying a very expensive (almost 300 USD) bootleg and I couldnt believe it (dont bother asking who I wouldnt name him in public). Obviously not everybody knows everything and sadly some even cant be bothered to do their research homework properly before bidding ... a shame really , but I am with Nev on this one, the buyers are almost as much to blame as the sellers. It always takes two to tango...

NB

Am I the only one being so deeply annoyed by those bloody Popcorn bootlegs and high price listings..wish someone would "kill" these listings LOL...started to extract -popcorn now from every single search i do on ebay...so bloody annoying. Someone did buy a Popcorn Clarence Hill WDJ boot the other day for almost 500 USD...!..

"There sure is a lot of boots goin around" lol

There are currently 2,740,598 items listed in 'Records' on ebay - it must be a tiny tiny percentage that could be boots - I fail to see how they could police it or be held responsible. I'm afraid if someone is prepared to pay £100 for something they really should do a bit of homework first !

They do police it Mike - Especially where beatles / Elvis Stones etc are concerend

They do police it Mike - Especially where beatles / Elvis Stones etc are concerend

It's pretty obvious what a Rolling Stone bootleg is and with the like of ABKCO breathing down your neck you would get it removed sharpish, but would you expect ebay to review every listing like 'Bits and Pieces' to decide if it is a boot or a legitimate second pressing done back in 1974? There's no one on here who can say with absolute certainty what the legal status of the black and white pressing is so how could ebay?

"There sure is a lot of boots goin around" lol

Hi Nev. Can you remember a couple of years ago i had that record from the pages. A well known dj wanted it but he couldn't the venue that night so he got Ted Massey and Rob Smith to check it out, i wanted 125 pound for it. To find out it was a boot which i believed them cause they know there stuff. So a few weeks later i put it on ebay, had about 14 bids for it, i didn't put a boot, a re-issue or original. Including postage it went for 295 to a japanese buyer. He was asking about the matrix number which i gave him. Cut the story short, he got back to me a couple of weeks later saying he was really pleased, he had it checked out, it was original.

Cheers Billy

It's pretty obvious what a Rolling Stone bootleg is and with the like of ABKCO breathing down your neck you would get it removed sharpish, but would you expect ebay to review every listing like 'Bits and Pieces' to decide if it is a boot or a legitimate second pressing done back in 1974? There's no one on here who can say with absolute certainty what the legal status of the black and white pressing is so how could ebay?

No Mike - Not for everything but I would expect them to have reference documents to refer to EG manships Guide!

They just seem to be selective which means they are inconsistent with their approach.

I have some signed beatles albums left from a big sale I did acouple of years ago -Thought I would put them on ebay along with 2 signed ACDC albums - They pulled the betles instantly but let the ACDC ones run the full auction time.If they thought The beatles were not genuine why did they think the ACDC were? Inconsistency and that applies to Northern boots as well.

No Mike - Not for everything but I would expect them to have reference documents to refer to EG manships Guide!

They just seem to be selective which means they are inconsistent with their approach.

I have some signed beatles albums left from a big sale I did acouple of years ago -Thought I would put them on ebay along with 2 signed ACDC albums - They pulled the betles instantly but let the ACDC ones run the full auction time.If they thought The beatles were not genuine why did they think the ACDC were? Inconsistency and that applies to Northern boots as well.

Big hitters I'm afraid Ernie - but you know I think I prefer it that way - let them get on with it. I posted on here a while back about the power of the Stones lawyers - an absolute disgrace........

Following legal action by the ABKCO (Allen Klein's company)the writing credit for 'Bitter Sweet Symphony' was credited 100% to KeithRichards and Mick Jagger after charges by the original copyright owners that the song was plagiarized from the Andrew Oldham Orchestra recording of the 'TheRolling Stones' 1965 song 'The Last Time'.

That would be the same song 'based' on a traditional gospel songcalled "This May Be The Last Time", recorded by The Staple Singers in1955!

Now you may think fair enough, but 'The Last Time' remains credited to Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, mind Richards has been kindenough/big enough to 'mention' that it was based on the Staples song! The mind boggles!!

Most of the time if you have a Manship's bootleg guide you can suss out if it's a boot or not. If i'm unsure I'll ask the seller and if they are dishonest you can send the item back and get a refund or if not report the seller to ebay. I've bought boots in the past to have the sound to play at home or put on a CD for my own enjoyment, never to play out at a venue in a spot. However recently I've been to a few venues where boots have been played and in large halls they often sound terrible! I'm not gonna mention names of Dj's etc but I wish they'd just play cheaper originals if they can't afford the real deal. I'd much prefer to hear a copy of the Dells 'Make Sure' than a booted copy of a track like Lou Pride , Salvadors etc. ktf

nm

Edited August 2, 201113 yr by pinkyperky

It's always been a case of "buyer beware". Even before Ebay. I remember as a kid buying an 'original' Sam & Kitty for £4 off an older lad at the Casino which was a lot in them days. Only to find i'd been sold an early boot.

"Buyer beware" does not come into it if you buy from an honest seller.

We are talking misleading and dishonest descriptions.

ROD

"Buyer beware" does not come into it if you buy from an honest seller.

We are talking misleading and dishonest descriptions.

ROD

Agreed.

I struggle with this "You should know absolutely everything about everything before you buy" stance. If I buy an item listed as a' Sony Bravia TV' on eBay, I expect to get a Sony TV. Not to be told that I should know the telltale marks from the factory in Slovenia.

"Buyer beware" does not come into it if you buy from an honest seller.

We are talking misleading and dishonest descriptions.

ROD

I know we are and I am not condoning it for one minute. Just saying it's always been there. Some people seem to think it's an ebay only phenomenon.

Steve

Tommy Navarro bootleg here, no mention of it being as such, plus it's a UK press and it's described as a US one - look at the centre of the record

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NORTHERN-SOUL-TOMMY-NAVARRO-US-JAC-CRIED-MY-LIFE-/200635340983?pt=UK_Records&hash=item2eb6cc58b7

It's always been a case of "buyer beware". Even before Ebay. I remember as a kid buying an 'original' Sam & Kitty for £4 off an older lad at the Casino which was a lot in them days. Only to find i'd been sold an early boot.

Pardon the pun Steve.... " Ive got something good" ...Not

Tommy Navarro bootleg here, no mention of it being as such, plus it's a UK press and it's described as a US one - look at the centre of the record

https://www.ebay.co.u...=item2eb6cc58b7

Not sure where I stand on this. I hate the number of boots listed on ebay; most without any indication that they are - dishonest really. But I also think that if people are dopey enough to spend nearly 80 quid on a record without doing a bit of research they deserve what they get.

Tommy Navarro must be one of the best known boots there is and is really easy to spot. There were 4 people willing to pay over 40 for this when the boot is probably worth 20 quid max. I have difficulty having any sympathy with people who are quite happy to chuck money away on things that they know nothing about - there are enough people to ask.

Some people deserve all they get !

Who the hell would pay that for one of the worst and most obvious bootlegs ever ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YVONNE-BAKER-YOU-DIDNT-SAY-WORD-DEE-DEE-SHARP-KIND-LADY-MINT-/250962139326?pt=UK_Records&hash=item3a6e8258be

Over the next week I've got around 60 pressings and bootlegs going on ebay, every single one is stated as being such, anyone who doesn't do this is trying to rip people off as far as I'm concerned. (I also start them all at a sensible £4.99)

Over the next week I've got around 60 pressings and bootlegs going on ebay, every single one is stated as being such, anyone who doesn't do this is trying to rip people off as far as I'm concerned. (I also start them all at a sensible £4.99)

he says its a repro double header !

i mean it just looks terrible cheap and nasty and can't believe anybody would want to buy it

he says its a repro double header !

i mean it just looks terrible cheap and nasty and can't believe anybody would want to buy it

I remember when these were made and the guy who made them said they were deliberately made NOT to be lookalikes so nobody thought they were buying originals.