Is Playing A Boot At A Venue Ever Acceptable

[Pete S]

So then Pete, was Hendesford a Working Mens Club do, where it didn't matter that you'd played a bootleg, ooops, soory a dub, to your mates ?

Sounds to me like you say one thing, but practice something different.

Good on Dave for putting your 'dub' playing in it's place

Get your facts right before making smart arse comments like that. "Good on Dave", f*cking pathetic.

Edited October 9, 2011 by Pete S

[Cunnie]

kinda like "you either get it or you dont" ? Those comments are ok and dont need a 'reasonable argument' ?

I persoally dont give two hoots however, I was asked to DJ at a fairly big and well adertised evernt 2 years ago and spoke to the promotor. I said I would oly play orig for the sake of HIS reputation. On the day of the event, thats what I did ..... but bootlegs did get played....one was even announced as a boot ...the floor got packed to it.

Here's a question that I hope doesn't wander too far from the thread. I have done a couple of internet radio shows and will be doing another in the new year. Both shows I played orig only (with the exception of an LP only track that is burnt to carver). What is the opinion of playing boots on a radio show?

Really don't get this at all. Why on earth do people carve album tracks to 7" vinyl when it is easier & also a dam site cheaper to play it off a burnt cd or just play it off the album. It's a radio station & they will surely have good enough sound equipment to enhance it.

Better still play the mp3 off a storage device. Chances are you could legally download the track & the sound quality would be better still.

End of the day let's remember it's 2011, not 1965....

My opinion for what it's worth on the first post & this is from a more 'Modern' perspective is legitimate format only & by that I mean where if a track is re-issued a percentage of the money goes to the original artist.

[Guest]

cant be arsed

Edited October 9, 2011 by mikecook

[Theothertosspot]

Remember being told by a friend some years ago that when Robert Knight - Branded was being played (mid 70's) off the LP (last track) his friend removed the other tracks with a stanley knife so that it looked like a single. Nowt so queer as folk.

TOTP

[Pete S]

Remember being told by a friend some years ago that when Robert Knight - Branded was being played (mid 70's) off the LP (last track) his friend removed the other tracks with a stanley knife so that it looked like a single. Nowt so queer as folk.

TOTP

I've seen LP's cut down also - it was the Kiki Dee Motown album with More Today Than Yesterday on it.

[KevH]

I don't know Russ, Kev used the phrase in the post I replied to, (post 194) maybe you want to ask him, or accuse him of making inflammatory remarks in the passive aggressive manner I've become known for?

Hi Russ.Used "chinstroker" as it seems to encompass,on SS, ovo collectors and punters who frequent ovo venues.

[Guest kid mohair]

If you have to ask......then you don't understand

YAY !!!! totaly agree......

[sepia]

one boot played is one to many for me.

as an ex promoter.we booked the dj's with the records to fit our ovo rare soul night. butch,weston,thorley,burrell,money etc.

dont understand why a night/nighter with a play what you want policy(as in boots etc).needs to book any djs.

wouldnt the promoter use the money set aside for djs to go & buy the top boots of the moment & dj the night solo.he would just be playing the same boots as the dj's he was going to book.

also....

dj's etc,who down OVO venues/djs & play with boots.just have this thought to yourselfs.while standing @ the decks watching those boots spin on the wheels of steel.

if it wasnt for the OV record singers/makers/collectors & early djs who found those OV records in the first place.

YOU WOULDNT HAVE THOSE TUNES ON BOOTS TO PLAY.

you cant bite the hand that fed you.

[Mark Bicknell]

I've seen LP's cut down also - it was the Kiki Dee Motown album with More Today Than Yesterday on it.

Is that right Pete, you, Dave Rimmer and Cliff Steele have all got together to buy Vinyl Carvers as the business is up for sale???? lol

[KevH]

Wasn't dissing the maths Kev, agree with you the original estimate was a touch fanciful So there's even more suspicion at at chinstroker's night regarding if it's OVO being played? Or are you just talking about going up to the decks out of interest?

Talking about going up to the decks out of interest.Suspicion? No,sometimes curiosity,sometimes because it may be the only time you get to see a big ticket number/holy grail close up.(Of course this means nothing unless you are interested in such things).

[Pete S]

I think I'd better stay away from this particular topic.

[Mark Bicknell]

I think I'd better stay away from this particular topic.

So it's true then lol

[Pete S]

So it's true then lol

I wish...

[Winnie :-)]

Talking about going up to the decks out of interest.Suspicion? No,sometimes curiosity,sometimes because it may be the only time you get to see a big ticket number/holy grail close up.(Of course this means nothing unless you are interested in such things).

I suspected that's what you meant

[Guest]

does anyone have an answer to the question i asked.... without the smart arse comments and useless information that has nothing to do with the question I asked?

[Chalky]

That was my maths Winnie,based on estimated info given (Promoters thread).Meant to be tongue in cheek figures.

How many would trek up to the decks? Chinstrokers night - 10%.?.The others would assume it was ovo?

Oldies night - 1%.? The others probably dont care.?

Wasn't dissing the maths Kev, agree with you the original estimate was a touch fanciful So there's even more suspicion at at chinstroker's night regarding if it's OVO being played? Or are you just talking about going up to the decks out of interest?

What's a chin strokers night? I've never been to a night advertised as a chin strokers night. I've never really see anyone stood about stroking their chins either?

P.S. Just seen Russ's reply to this and agree it's one of those quotes often trotted out by the oldies only lovers who can't put up a reasonable argument during debate . Most go out for the music, whether they dance or not. This has been the same since the beginnings of the scene. Some dance some don't. Some collect some don't. Some spend their time in the record bar some don't. It takes all kinds to make up this scene.,

Edited October 9, 2011 by chalky

[Guest sharmo 1]

Could someone please put up the official laws/rules regarding what's allowed and what's not allowed and also if this was A. the result of a northern soul vote and B who devised it.Also if there are any amendments for instance article 1(A) could state that for the first two hours of a soul night it's quite acceptable to play Boot's,re issues,second issues "File copies" However after ten original vinyl only.Article 1(B) After ten, acetates and carvers can be played on the strict rule 1(B2)that states that these track's are unissued and bonefidi .This could fit in nicely with article 1(c1) regarding c.d's that would be a strict undertaking that if a promoter has asked someone to dj for them they have first checked to see if they have any vinyl records (from now on abr.as V.R'S) if the guest hasn't got any V.R's then it's safe to assume that article1(c2) that only original c,d's can be played (from now on abr.as O.C.D'S).Regarding article 1(A) it would be irrelivant if someone played a "file copie" of say Rita and the Tiaras as there wouldn't be that many in the room anyway therfor allowing the guest to play an original V.R .There would have to be amendments to all articles regaring All Dayers (abr,A.D's) as if the A.D. starts at twelve under article 1(A) up to ten boot's "file copies " ect are acceptable and then article 1(B) comes into play.Meaning really only two hours of original V.R's (abr. to o.v.r's) could legally be available in which case All nighters (abr. to A.N'S) take on a worrying complication as legally as it's a new day up untill ten it's quite legal to play boot's ect all through the nighter unless there are seperate rules .Best regards Simon.

[Winnie :-)]

What's a chin strokers night? I've never been to a night advertised as a chin strokers night. I've never really see anyone stood about stroking their chins either?

I think Kev's already answered this Chalks, it was a light hearted reference

[KevH]

What's a chin strokers night? I've never been to a night advertised as a chin strokers night. I've never really see anyone stood about stroking their chins either?

I'm guessing the term "chinstroker" came from a similar place as "Trainspotter" Chalky.The "deep in thought" ,"far away" look at some venues,given by collectors as they mentally scour their memory for matrix numbers,color variations,who/when /where a tune was first played,how much it went for on Popsike etc.

Or it could be itchy stubble.

Never seen it myself,or been to one of those crazy nights.

How about rodo ? Records of Dubious Origin?

Edited October 9, 2011 by KevH

[Douglas]

I want to hear the first take of Moses Smith 'Girl Across The Street' apparently he was wearing blue socks at the time,but the second take is the version that got released and he was wearing red socks,i feel cheated.

[Mark Bicknell]

I want to hear the first take of Moses Smith 'Girl Across The Street' apparently he was wearing blue socks at the time,but the second take is the version that got released and he was wearing red socks,i feel cheated.

You should hear the version when he had his Orange socks on blows the others out of the water.

[Chalky]

I'm guessing the term "chinstroker" came from a similar place as "Trainspotter" Chalky.The "deep in thought" ,"far away" look at some venues,given by collectors as they mentally scour their memory for matrix numbers,color variations,who/when /where a tune was first played,how much it went for on Popsike etc.

Or it could be itchy stubble.

Never seen it myself,or been to one of those crazy nights.

How about rodo ? Records of Dubious Origin?

I realise that Kev I know why it is used but like Russ I simply find the term inflammatory and used by those on the defensive and losing the debate, incapable of putting over proper reasoned comments and have to rely on derogatory comments instead. I guess we are all guilty of such comments at times though.

[Guest]

I want to hear the first take of Moses Smith 'Girl Across The Street' apparently he was wearing blue socks at the time,but the second take is the version that got released and he was wearing red socks,i feel cheated.

Can't be northern then,it's got to be white socks

[Chalky]

Keep it on topic please, enough of the sock colours.

[KevH]

I realise that Kev I know why it is used but like Russ I simply find the term inflammatory and used by those on the defensive and losing the debate, incapable of putting over proper reasoned comments and have to rely on derogatory comments instead. I guess we are all guilty of such comments at times though.

And that's exactly where the term came from.I used it for quick reference.Me lose a debate..?

Guilty as charged i guess.....

Edited October 9, 2011 by KevH

[Raremusicdirect]

...........People who are proud to own an original copy of a record that's part of our "history in the making".Lots of folks own,or have owned boots.Nothing wrong with that.But if you're going to represent the Scene,by getting behind the decks,do it justice and play ovo.

Agreed with that, I have some re-issues - boots and dubs ; but they are for home use (used to be on the juke box until it stopped working).........and saved wearing out originals............but playing out, imho, has to be OVO.........otherwise you can follow a logic to sticking on an mp3 player........every event and every dj becomes the same and I just can't see the point in (and wouldn't want) that.

[Russ Vickers]

You just did it again Winnie.......

Russ

[Winnie :-)]

What's a chin strokers night? I've never been to a night advertised as a chin strokers night. I've never really see anyone stood about stroking their chins either?

P.S. Just seen Russ's reply to this and agree it's one of those quotes often trotted out by the oldies only lovers who can't put up a reasonable argument during debate . Most go out for the music, whether they dance or not. This has been the same since the beginnings of the scene. Some dance some don't. Some collect some don't. Some spend their time in the record bar some don't. It takes all kinds to make up this scene.,

Russ didn't say that in his reply, he told me I was inflammatory and passive aggressive because I asked Kev how many people would trek up to the decks to check whether a record was an original or not. Seems a perfectly valid question to me, being as we're discussing whether boots can ever be played?

[Raremusicdirect]

At Derby Alnighter, the records on one deck in Room 2 were projected onto a screen for the audience to view or ignore ..............

I thought it was great to see the 45s spinning....................

[Chalky]

Russ didn't say that in his reply, he told me I was inflammatory and passive aggressive because I asked Kev how many people would trek up to the decks to check whether a record was an original or not. Seems a perfectly valid question to me, being as we're discussing whether boots can ever be played?

If I go up to the decks it's usually to see what the record is, not whether it is a boot or not. You usually know the DJ's playing boots and who plays what anyway, well you do if you take note for nearly 30 years. You know where the really rare records are by and large and if someone plays one you didn't think had one then suspicions are going be raised.

Plenty do go up to the decks, whether the motives are due to suspicion or simply to find out what the record is or the label.....or maybe simply compliment the DJ on the particular record.

[Winnie :-)]

You just did it again Winnie.......

Russ

Just did what again Russ?

[KevH]

Russ didn't say that in his reply, he told me I was inflammatory and passive aggressive because I asked Kev how many people would trek up to the decks to check whether a record was an original or not. Seems a perfectly valid question to me, being as we're discussing whether boots can ever be played?

I'm sorry,but i seem to be missing the angle of this internal debate.Perfectly valid question you asked me Winnie.Which i answered.

[Russ Vickers]

That inflamatory, pasive aggressive thing.....chill out, its only NS its not life & death ya know. I dont think you realise Win, as I'm sure, like most people on here your really a nice bloke, but you do come across as very aggressive & defensive with any post you make, not just this one in my experience...........I think 'Chin Strokers' are the opposite to the 'Cock Strokers' who are militant oldies orientated (now that would be inflamatory if it wasnt a JOKE :-))

[Winnie :-)]

I'm sorry,but i seem to be missing the angle of this internal debate.Perfectly valid question you asked me Winnie.Which i answered.

yes you did

[Winnie :-)]

That inflamatory, pasive aggressive thing.....chill out, its only NS its not life & death ya know. I dont think you realise Win, as I'm sure, like most people on here your really a nice bloke, but you do come across as very aggressive & defensive with any post you make, not just this one in my experience...........I think 'Chin Strokers' are the opposite to the 'Cock Strokers' who are militant oldies orientated (now that would be inflamatory if it wasnt a JOKE :-))

I get that the northern scene isn't a matter of life and death Russ, I also understand that this is a forum which debates various topics, and the only time I get defensive is when I'm attacked personally, so don't worry I'm fairly chilled

[Russ Vickers]

Regardless of what anyone says publicly, privately everyone knows what the deal is with bootlegs.....

the rest is just hot air & trying to justify themselves or friends for doin it....which ever way you look at it, the answer is still a resounding NO, NO, NO........

Russ

[Russ Vickers]

I get that the northern scene isn't a matter of life and death Russ, I also understand that this is a forum which debates various topics, and the only time I get defensive is when I'm attacked personally, so don't worry I'm fairly chilled

Good, cos I'm sure almost to a person, in real life we would debate this & be laughing together. One of my best friends on the scene has some differing views to my own, which we debate regularly without a cross word & plenty of laughs..electronic debate doesnt always emphasise the tone of the post.Best Russ

[Pete Eccles]

When I saw the first post of the thread I thought 'surely there can't be any mileage in this topic again'

Note to self - never underestimate an OVO v boot thread

[Julie Moore]

Got this idea from a friend ..........Here goes ...........can anyone involved in this thread put their hand on their heart and say they have never played a "Boot" whilst djing ????? i can`t personally as I aint a dj ..but there are a few on here ..............so if you hav`nt please make the next post

[Guest sharmo 1]

Got this idea from a friend ..........Here goes ...........can anyone involved in this thread put their hand on their heart and say they have never played a "Boot" whilst djing ????? i can`t personally as I aint a dj ..but there are a few on here ..............so if you hav`nt please make the next post

Hi Julie (lot's of sloppy kisses) I've played boot's thing's like suspician and alike and years ago when I was about 15 0r 16 at local thing's I used to play grapevine/destany type records so yes I have defernatly played "file copies" regards to Mr.Kev .Simon.

[Russ Vickers]

I played a bootleg at the Blue Lagoon in Portsmouth about 15 years ago, I knew it wasnt right & felt a bit embarrassed afterwards, as I had plenty of other things I could have played instead...it was 'Giving All My Love To You', know one really knew, but i felt I had let my self down as it was unneccessary really - Roger Banks had recently reactivated it & I knew it would pack the floor & If I'm honest, at the time I felt it would give me a bit of kudos for being on the ball with what was being played at Nighters.....

There you go Jules, learnt a valuable personal lesson with regards to my personal ethics & felt it unneccessary since.....

Best Russ

[Guest sharmo 1]

I played a bootleg at the Blue Lagoon in Portsmouth about 15 years ago, I knew it wasnt right & felt a bit embarrassed afterwards, as I had plenty of other things I could have played instead...it was 'Giving All My Love To You', know one really knew, but i felt I had let my self down as it was unneccessary really - Roger Banks had recently reactivated it & I knew it would pack the floor & If I'm honest, at the time I felt it would give me a bit of kudos for being on the ball with what was being played at Nighters..... There you go Jules, learnt a valuable personal lesson with regards to my personal ethics & felt it unneccessary since..... Best Russ

Russ did many people dance to it ?

[Guest kev such]

Had a rediculousy massive record box that i used to turn up with that probably had 80% + boots inside. Used to look like I was Del Boy with a suitcase of hooky merchandise, which admittedly is and was very apt. Soon kicked that and its contents into touch, well couldnt kick it actually I'd have broken a toe.

Edited October 9, 2011 by kev such

[Russ Vickers]

Simon - It was more about the personal morale dilema, yes people danced & I dont think anyone realised anyway, but it was like getting caught pinching sweets when you were a kid, when you still had loads of pocket money left, thwe difference between right & wrong really.....

Best Russ

[Guest sharmo 1]

Simon - It was more about the personal morale dilema, yes people danced & I dont think anyone realised anyway, but it was like getting caught pinching sweets when you were a kid, when you still had loads of pocket money left, thwe difference between right & wrong really.....

Best Russ

Your a very honest chap Russ god bless you mate.

[Russ Vickers]

Kev - the answer to this whole thread, if there is one, could lie within the reason you decided to stop playing bootlegs in preference for originals.....as you can speak truthfully from both sides of the coin & state why you thought it neccessary to stop playing bootlegs. Now there is a golden opportunity here to be 100% truthful & NOT sit on the fence.......Kev the floor is yours

Russ

[Guest Byrney]

If you have got originals just play em to me some people on the soul scene like to brag about how many originals they have etc and massage there big ego. If you've got em you've got em if you aint you aint. you know what they say them that talk about it !

Y'know what, some of my mates have collections that would make most on here swoon. Not once has any of them bragged about having originals. Is this your own experience or perhaps what you've heard from others? Possibly at non OVO events?

[Guest kev such]

The main reason I decided to go OVO was in honest respect for collectors and people with infinately surpassing collections. As I was hoping to invite the kind of DJ's to guest at The Cream Cracker ( through Nidges contacts) for the good and benefit of The Jacobs. I knew that there was NO WAY IN HELL that I would be taken seriously by people I respect and admire greatly by insulting them and taking the easy option in vinyl collecting. I have honestly NO problems if people want to play from whatever format they wish as long as they are honest about it. How much of a pretentious prick would I be to lay my ideals firmly at anyones door,considering my beginnings in this venture.

When we held the Charity alldayer for Help The Heroes I wholeheartedly believe that I could never had asked the calibre of guest dj's who helped if I stood alongside them and mimiked their collections cheaply.

Once I had been shown the buzz of owning a long sought after,saved for tune I realised that for myself personally this was the only way to be.

The case that springs most to mind is that the first real OVO tune I bought for a serious amount of money was an issue of Roy Hamilton "Cracking up" from Mr Chapman ( through Mellors) and when I had the vinyl in my hand and was looking so forward to playing it someone before me played it on a boot. This annoyed me immensely and made me realise how frustrated OVO collectors must have felt when I sallied up with my Del Boy suitcase of boots.

From that point there was no denying that if I wanted to hold my head up amongst my peers I had to change my lacklustre approach to djing and collecting.

With the guidance, and patience of people I hold in very high regard I turned my collection around in my opinion for the better.

Kev ( still not doing modern ) Such

Edited October 9, 2011 by kev such

[Guest Bearsy]

Got this idea from a friend ..........Here goes ...........can anyone involved in this thread put their hand on their heart and say they have never played a "Boot" whilst djing ????? i can`t personally as I aint a dj ..but there are a few on here ..............so if you hav`nt please make the next post

i first got into the scene about 6/7 years ago via the scooter scene and started to buy northern 7" records to put on me jukebox and i didnt know anyhting abouts labels originals or boots it was just 7" records i was after, i got asked to dj for a freind as he liked what i had i said yes after a bit of persuation and got told i was pretty good so kind of got me more and more into it and 2/300 records later i met some Soul Sourcers that said that if im really into it all join up have a read and any info you want or need or records you will find etc etc etc, i jojned and just read for a couple of months and then met more and more soulies and soon started to realise the scene i was joining was oldier than me and built on foundations of Original vynil, i soon got the jist and got the bug and realised every penny i spent on a boot was a waste of money as that money could go to the real thing and there is NOTHING like the real thing, i sold most of my boots to friends and on ebay but kept a few cos i like them but i would never buy one again and aint bought one since i realised just what a boot is, ovo you cant beat it and when that record arrives i have a good old sniff of it a bloody good look at them grooves check the matrix and label then look up info etc then the best bit above all is when you place that record on the decks you know that its on its next journey in its life since it left the Presses all them years ago back in the 60/70s,

my opinion on boots is why waste money on them buy some real ones and if you need copies of big tunes to play out you really are trying to be something you aint, not all the great tunes are expensive so really why the need.

some are more fortunate than others when it comes to funding records but as long as you keep to with what you can afford you can play a very imaginitve and exciting set for not a lot of money imho

[Guest Bearsy]

The main reason I decided to go OVO was in honest respect for collectors and people with infinately surpassing collections. As I was hoping to invite the kind of DJ's to guest at The Cream Cracker ( through Nidges contacts) for the good and benefit of The Jacobs. I knew that there was NO WAY IN HELL that I would be taken seriously by people I respect and admire greatly by insulting them and taking the easy option in vinyl collecting. I have honestly NO problems if people want to play from whatever format they wish. How much of a pretentious prick would I be to lay my ideals firmly at anyones door,considering my beginnings in this venture its the dishonesty that annoys me.

When we held the Charity alldayer for Help The Heroes I wholeheartedly believe that I could never had asked the calibre of guest dj's who helped if I stood alongside them and mimiked their collections cheaply.

Once I had been shown the buzz of owning a long sought after,saved for tune I realised that for myself personally this was the only way to be.

The case that springs most to mind is that the first real OVO tune I bought for a serious amount of money was an issue of Roy Hamilton "Cracking up" from Mr Chapman ( through Mellors) and when I had the vinyl in my hand and was looking so forward to playing it someone before me played it on a boot. This annoyed me immensely and made me realise how frustrated OVO collectors must have felt when I sallied up with my Del Boy suitcase of boots.

From that point there was no denying that if I wanted to hold my head up amongst my peers I had to change my lacklustre approach to djing and collecting.

With the guidance, and patience of people I hold in very high regard I turned my collection around in my opinion for the better.

Kev ( still not doing modern ) Such

Top man