In response to a post on another thread, I wrote this reply:

Some people are just sh*t scared to tell the truth.....originaal format or dont bother to DJ, I dont care who the f*ck is DJing.

Everything that I ever held dear about this wonderful scene is being eroded, not only that, when you state the obvious you'll beaten into submission by an endless stream of folk defending why apparently its now fine, for some to commit herasy because theyre considered royalty.

You can come on SS/FB/ & any type of media social network you can name & defend this practice until you are blue in the face....you are all fakes who have forgotten what this is all about.

I dont really give a f*ck, I would rather stick pins in my own eyes than pandy to this watered down, sad imitation of an excuse for a rare soul scene....now some will be, calm down, whats the problem, we've done this before blah, blah, blah....but I for one will not let the 'divs' n fakers get away withit......nothing anyone can say or do will make this right within the context of the rare soul scene & I refuse to give in or shut up about it, its what they want.....

Dont give up the dream & do not except anything other than the real deal....we may now be in the minority, but we are in the right & we have right on our side.....even tho on other forums you'll get the snide comments & the ones that will s*ck any old DJ's c*ck just cos they heard em play a great set 35 years ago in some god forsaken Northern town or city....if you aint got the gear dont except the gig......not only that avoid the places that except this fakery, you dont have to except it & you are right not to except....dont be brow beaten into thinking this is right, stand up & demand your right to be given the original format not a cheap immitation....

Roger Williams in reply wrote 'Drama Queen'

Now altho we havnt seen each other for some years, I class Roger as a friend. I know Rogers feelings on such things & I respect them, however Roger writes from the perspective of a Modern Soul fan looking in on the NS Scene, my comments were aimed directly at the Northern scene & have very little do with the Modern scene. I stick by my guns & would add that if you pop over to EMS you may think that the same comment 'Drama Queen' could be applied when he who cannot be named (2) along with others in a left field way, make comment on the previous thread on this subject....its obvious that regardless of what is said on SS it hit a nerve, cos said person obviously feels he should comment, albeit in a round about way. Its a pity that the legend couldnt respond in person on SS.

Please feel free to lock this thread now I have replied.

Many thanks

Russ

Two things:

As every one has a different relationship with the soul scene, age, knowledge, preference of style etc. then one persons 'played out oldie' is another persons 'my lawdy what is that!!!????'

I believe a good DJ, from any part of the soul scene, wants to play something original and will use the tried and tested to in a sense 'set up' the tune they have been scheming to drop. The percentage or frequency of 'new' stuff depends on the audiance. In a functioning dancefloor, to get away with four or more relativly unkown pieces whilst holding the dancers makes for a very succesful set. Of course if your playing to fifteen people in the back room of an undertakers you can play what you want.

dean

Edited June 26, 201212 yr by dean jj

Here's a few on the tunes played at Soul in the South Allniter on Sat 9th June...Attendance 50-60 in a 120 approx capacity.

Grey Imprint - Do You Get The Message

Sonny Rhodes - You Better Stop

Henry Moore - You Really Grab Me

Roy Redmond - Ain't That Terrible

Oliver Joy - Keep Love Growing

Markus Kelly - Pushing To The Top

Clark Bridges - Foxy

Frederick Knight - Steppin Down

Tommy Rodgers - Pass The Word

Irene & The Scots - Stuck On My Baby

Waymond Hill - What Will Tomorrow Bring

Billy Gee - Name Of The Bag

Eddie Holman - She's Wanted

Martha Bass - Since I've Been Born Again

Jimmie Moore - Church Street Sally

Johnnie Mae Matthews - Two Sided Thing

Robert Parker - Let's Go Baby

Eugene Jefferson - Pretty Girl Dressed In Brown

Jamo Thomas - Stop The Baby

Sugar Pie DeSanto - Soulful Dress

Staple Singers - Power Of Love

Wess & The Airedales - Crazy

Leo McCorkle - On Top Of The World

The Ethics - From Your Heart

Josephine Taylor - I'm Gone

Larry Hale - I Love You

Winfield Parker - Mr Clean

Betty Harris - Mean Man

Eddie Floyd - People Get It Together

Wendel Weston - Nag On Me

Hot Ice Company - You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet

Al Johnson - You Got To Make It Yourself

These records were played to 50-60 people at an Allniter

on the South Coast with some of the leading Dj's in the Country.

The whole Southern region & only 50-60 people there....UNBELIEVABLE but TRUE !!!!!!!

Ok, we might as well play the TOP 100 then....at least we'll get a FULL HOUSE & we can get dj's playing cd's & pay them them nothing....is that what people want ?? That was the point I was making......

Ok, we might as well play the TOP 100 then....at least we'll get a FULL HOUSE & we can get dj's playing cd's & pay them them nothing....is that what people want ?? That was the point I was making......

Looks like that's the way to do it, sad but true

Personally I would rather stick knitting needles in my eyes & slice my ears off.....

Ok, we might as well play the TOP 100 then....at least we'll get a FULL HOUSE & we can get dj's playing cd's & pay them them nothing....is that what people want ?? That was the point I was making......

If you want an actual honest opinion - I only knew 10 of those records - that would mean just too many unknown (to me) records, it would need breaking up a bit more with oldies, and I don't mean Moses Smith or Tomangoes, I mean say Little Charles, Drake & Ensolids, Gloria & T-Airas sort of thing.

If you want an actual honest opinion - I only knew 10 of those records - that would mean just too many unknown (to me) records, it would need breaking up a bit more with oldies, and I don't mean Moses Smith or Tomangoes, I mean say Little Charles, Drake & Ensolids, Gloria & T-Airas sort of thing.

Write them down & have a listen to them Pete...most have them have been regular plays for a fair few years @ Burnley, Bidds, Lifeline etc & also well known @ places like Empty Bottles, Different Strokes etc etc etc...places that play quality Underplayed Oldies !!! Must confess I'm a bit shocked to hear you say that cause most of them are Oldies...just goes to show how far the gap is between the 2 sides of today's so called Northern Soul Scene. All those tunes are well known by those that attend these sort of places, have a listen to some of them on you tube ??

Whilst on the subject of Weston, another aspect of what is, to my mind at least, unacceptable in DJ terms is this nonsense of taking a classic Northern track and superimposing some unnecessary, banal and trite alternative lyric and vocal onto it - I refer here to the abomination that has been done to Luther Ingram. I would ask "why?", but I sadly know the answer, so no point in bothering to ask. Who buys this crap? What I would also like to know is why do people put up with this type of rubbish? They wear their 'Keep The Faith' paraphenalia and then do the exact opposite and trample all over the faith they so sanctimoniously advertise. Maybe that is not directly relevant to this topic thread, but it certainly is questionable DJing to my mind. As a paying and travelling punter that night (door tax for 2, 120 mile round trip from Cardiff plus £6 bridge toll), that sort of thing makes me feel short changed. I guess I should storm up to the decks and aggressively demand that such rubbish is taken off and "some Northern played" instead!! (I should stress, you Steve, Keith Money and Ginger played varied sets with a good nod to the mix of crowd that night)

You're right, this isn't the right thread to post about it on - you could have mentioned it on the post-event thread three weeks ago.

Soul Nights @ Bridgwater had a great mix of music on the night - the one that did it for me was a track by the Pearls. I'd like to know if there were any tracks that did it for you? So sorry that your night was so horribly spoiled by the one tune, which by the way kept the dancefloor full. I feel that I am safe to say the promoters of Soul Nights @ Bridgwater would be happy to refund your entrance fee, seeing as you had such an expensive night out, toll & all. I'm sure after all the other rare soul that was played on the night, you must have felt really shortchanged, lol

Angela x

Write them down & have a listen to them Pete...most have them have been regular plays for a fair few years @ Burnley, Bidds, Lifeline etc & also well known @ places like Empty Bottles, Different Strokes etc etc etc...places that play quality Underplayed Oldies !!! Must confess I'm a bit shocked to hear you say that cause most of them are Oldies...just goes to show how far the gap is between the 2 sides of today's so called Northern Soul Scene. All those tunes are well known by those that attend these sort of places, have a listen to some of them on you tube ??

I will do. But theres one of the problems, I got so fed up with going out and hearing the same records that I just stopped completely, which is why I'm not up with a lot of things played in the last 5 years. Right, so go to places where they do play them you say; well no, I can't be bothered anymore, too old to get enthusiastic I'm afraid. Such a shame that refosoul continues to stay unavailable because that was a great way of hearing records. I'm not saying I haven't heard more than ten of them, I know the titles and artists of a lot of them, but can't place them. But when you say that most of them are oldies, you'd have to redefine that cos the only oldies pertanent to me there are: eddie holman, irene & scotts, roy redmond, sugarpie desanto, eugene jefferson, robert parker - I don't know how any of the others go, off the top of my head.

And that brings us nicely full circle....back to the beginning of this thread. Russ - a man who singlehandedly lives off the reputation of the Casino, always had dodgy taste in my opinion, and seemingly has no records left worth speaking of....and yet despite all this....he succeeds in drawing a crowd.....in Southend of all places. He also seemingly draws a crowd wherever else he plays.

I rest my case.

Two scenes, so why can't we let those that just want a party and don't care about anything else get on with enjoying their nights out on the town, clapping in unison to Frank Wilson and other "Casino Classics".

Steve i've been it's not that big a crowd believe me.

You're right, this isn't the right thread to post about it on - you could have mentioned it on the post-event thread three weeks ago.

Soul Nights @ Bridgwater had a great mix of music on the night - the one that did it for me was a track by the Pearls. I'd like to know if there were any tracks that did it for you? So sorry that your night was so horribly spoiled by the one tune, which by the way kept the dancefloor full. I feel that I am safe to say the promoters of Soul Nights @ Bridgwater would be happy to refund your entrance fee, seeing as you had such an expensive night out, toll & all. I'm sure after all the other rare soul that was played on the night, you must have felt really shortchanged, lol

Angela x

Try reading my post properly Angela before commenting. Thanks,.

Perhaps that's the problem down on the South Coast then...very few attend Allniters anymore & just go to local Soul Nites, it's the changing of the times & what's big tunes now that get played at the sort of venues I've mentioned. Allniter people & local Soul Nite people have always been different even in the 70's. In those days people used to say, you have to go to Allniters to hear all the best tunes, they did to me anyway....so at 15 off I went !!! In my 50's now but still think the same, still wanting to hear tunes I don't know & still wanting to learn more. There must be at least 50-60 thousand Oldies if not a lot more, perhaps that's why so many Underplayed Oldies Nites are opening up ALL over the country...whilst some of the Underplayed Allniters are struggling with attendance, perhaps that's also a sign of the times too..but what it boils down to is, that they are missing out on hearing many many tunes they did'nt know existed....sad really on the musical point of view tho ??

Perhaps that's the problem down on the South Coast then...very few attend Allniters anymore & just go to local Soul Nites, it's the changing of the times & what's big tunes now that get played at the sort of venues I've mentioned. Allniter people & local Soul Nite people have always been different even in the 70's. In those days people used to say, you have to go to Allniters to hear all the best tunes, they did to me anyway....so at 15 off I went !!! In my 50's now but still think the same, still wanting to hear tunes I don't know & still wanting to learn more. There must be at least 50-60 thousand Oldies if not a lot more, perhaps that's why so many Underplayed Oldies Nites are opening up ALL over the country...whilst some of the Underplayed Allniters are struggling with attendance, perhaps that's also a sign of the times too..but what it boils down to is, that they are missing out on hearing many many tunes they did'nt know existed....sad really on the musical point of view tho ??

Spot on Rod.

Perhaps that's the problem down on the South Coast then...very few attend Allniters anymore & just go to local Soul Nites, it's the changing of the times & what's big tunes now that get played at the sort of venues I've mentioned. Allniter people & local Soul Nite people have always been different even in the 70's. In those days people used to say, you have to go to Allniters to hear all the best tunes, they did to me anyway....so at 15 off I went !!! In my 50's now but still think the same, still wanting to hear tunes I don't know & still wanting to learn more. There must be at least 50-60 thousand Oldies if not a lot more, perhaps that's why so many Underplayed Oldies Nites are opening up ALL over the country...whilst some of the Underplayed Allniters are struggling with attendance, perhaps that's also a sign of the times too..but what it boils down to is, that they are missing out on hearing many many tunes they did'nt know existed....sad really on the musical point of view tho ??

Yes extremely sad but Rod, circumstances are different for some of us, I thought at 50+ I'd be off doing whatever I liked, except I've got a second family now, kids aged 3 & 6, and that has severely clipped my wings, so things like that must take a chunk out of the numbers of potential punters.

Yes extremely sad but Rod, circumstances are different for some of us, I thought at 50+ I'd be off doing whatever I liked, except I've got a second family now, kids aged 3 & 6, and that has severely clipped my wings, so things like that must take a chunk out of the numbers of potential punters.

Plus a lot of the music's actually not very good, that's probably why people don't turn up in droves. You can dress it up as much as you like, 'underplayed', blah blah, but crap is crap no matter what era or format.

Plus a lot of the music's actually not very good,

Plenty of it is very good though.

Plenty of it is very good though.

Of the playlists posted up on this thread, nothing is really exciting or really cutting edge is it though Sebastian?......Them records have been around years, and whilst I like some of them I am not seeing anything that really catches my eye on either playlist. They're kind of lesser known oldies playlists. Think if there is two scenes the one that isn't "well known oldies" has to be truly cutting edge but maybe with a few lesser known oldies thrown in.

Just playing "Lesser known / underplayed oldies" is not really here or there IMHO.

Of the playlists posted up on this thread, nothing is really exciting or really cutting edge is it though Sebastian?......Them records have been around years, and whilst I like some of them I am not seeing anything that really catches my eye on either playlist. They're kind of lesser known oldies playlists. Think if there is two scenes the one that isn't "well known oldies" has to be truly cutting edge but maybe with a few lesser known oldies thrown in.

Just playing "Lesser known / underplayed oldies" is not really here or there IMHO.

Don't forget though Steve, maybe the reason you find them not too exciting is because you've heard them all over the last 35 years, whereas a lot of people weren't even born when we started going so the tracks may well be newies to them.

Bearsy, Sorry mate and understand where you are coming from, but you are still not getting it.

For 90% of the "scene" it's all about going out, having a larf, chat to your mates, booze, dance to familiar music, then go home. And that's it - end. They want nothing else from the soul scene, except maybe some CDs to play in the car from time to time. For a promotor sure CC is a big name who'll pull people in. I mean if they put you or me on in Newcastle, hardly anyone would turn up.

These 90% make up the backbone of soul nights, weekenders etc. in the UK whether you or I like it or not.

Then there's the other 10% who are loosely a mix of record collectors, people who want to hear something different mixed in, OVO folk who still like the founding perinciples, and some DJs who are constantly looking for something new to play. Within that 10%, as Jocko says there are a lot of 'wannabees' who think by playing some poor quality old B sides and soul pack terrors they're "cutting edge".

"Underplayed"? Some records are underplayed for a reason...

And incidentally the crossover and 70s "scene" has become even worse than the 60s scene in that regard. You can almost certainly count people who are digging beyond their old classics on two hands there.

...

Sorry mate, but this parrot is dead, and it's not going to change.

I don't know about jump at the chance but we've all probably ended up there on the odd occasion.....Have done a few gigs in the past which I assumed were OVO only to find they were only part OVO and 'Odd Job' has come on and played a few boots.

Totally agree!

Now, is it just me that defines a good DJ/set as one that plays records that get my feet tapping and (God forbid nowadays) even dancing. Yes I want to hear new/rare stuff if it's good. I want to hear tunes new to me, but I also want a bit of familiarity. The biggest name DJ can stand there with his, rare as rocking horse shit, unheard, underplayed, £800 original vinyls. But if it don't float my boat, he don't get my vote. (Poetry unintentional).

Edited June 26, 201212 yr by Grayman45

Allniter people & local Soul Nite people have always been different even in the 70's. In those days people used to say, you have to go to Allniters to hear all the best tunes, they did to me anyway....so at 15 off I went

Hello Rod - it was certainly different where I lived in the 70s as the Soul nights tended to be midweek or on a Sunday ( comedown) and were mainly populated by the same crowd I saw at all nighters - and we tended to hear a fair few of the current top allnighter sounds at these events too due to the availabilty of emidiscs.

Cheers

Manus

Edited June 26, 201212 yr by manus

edit

Edited June 26, 201212 yr by Matt Male

Of the playlists posted up on this thread, nothing is really exciting or really cutting edge is it though Sebastian?......Them records have been around years, and whilst I like some of them I am not seeing anything that really catches my eye on either playlist. They're kind of lesser known oldies playlists. Think if there is two scenes the one that isn't "well known oldies" has to be truly cutting edge but maybe with a few lesser known oldies thrown in.

Just playing "Lesser known / underplayed oldies" is not really here or there IMHO.

Can you give us a playlist of cutting edge sounds Steve?

At pure soul in Nuneaton, we play loads of different stuff & me & Shawry get flux all, with only a handful of open minded people coming (we only charge £3, enough to pay the expenses), we tell people that if they want to hear the same 50 or so records, then this isn't the place for them

Keep the faith folks, & don't let the buggars get you down...leave the politics to the politicians & leave the flogged to death oldies to the clubs that are happy to keep trudging on

Theres room for us all, horses for course's, one mans meat etc. etc etc,, so lighten up folks

Of the playlists posted up on this thread, nothing is really exciting or really cutting edge is it though Sebastian?......Them records have been around years, and whilst I like some of them I am not seeing anything that really catches my eye on either playlist. They're kind of lesser known oldies playlists.

I totally agree with you, I just commented on the fact that many of the records in for example rodw's list are good, not crap. Most of them are not cutting edge or extremely exciting, but good records that I would dance to.

By the way would you really class the below (from rodw's list) as "oldies"? I.e. in the same league as Drake & The Ensolids etc?

Markus Kelly - Pushing To The Top

Frederick Knight - Steppin Down

Martha Bass - Since I've Been Born Again

Hot Ice Company - You Ain't Heard Nothing Yet

Al Johnson & Angela Coulter - You Got To Make It For Yourself

I'm obviously not at all a part of the UK northern soul scene, but the above are a bunch of records I've got myself and I've just kind of gotten the idea that tunes like the above have not been getting many spins in the past?

Edited June 26, 201212 yr by Sebastian

Don't forget though Steve, maybe the reason you find them not too exciting is because you've heard them all over the last 35 years, whereas a lot of people weren't even born when we started going so the tracks may well be newies to them.

A very very good point well made Pete...

I have always encouraged youth and new blood along to events for many many years, so many of these what you call not very exciting tunes Steve are just so to many who have not had your experience, so we try and get a balance to keep a club buzzing, a fine balancing act indeed many times..

I am happy with a blend of cutting edge and more familiar quality oldies, an example would be Waymond Hill " what will tomorrow bring on the cutting edge side and The Volumes" aint gonna give you up" on the quality oldies side.. That gives me and a mixed group of mates a balance, we want to dance more than sit around in our anoraks when out at events..

Its all words though aint it.. cutting edge?? to who?? one mans cutting edged is rinsed out to another crowd after its had 6 months of life and a good few plays , its a funny old game...

A selection of what you are calling cutting edge Steve would help this debate..... Many of us are from different parts of the country/ different parts of the world too on here, cutting edge, rare, underplayed just like oldies can mean quite different things to many folks...

Edited June 26, 201212 yr by little-stevie

Edited June 26, 201212 yr by little-stevie

Edited June 27, 201212 yr by little-stevie

Can you give us a playlist of cutting edge sounds Steve?

No Matt, have always said the true cutting edge stuff isn't getting casually put up on the internet. That's what makes and keeps it cutting edge. At European events you'll hear it though.

Also upstairs rom at Cleethorpes on Saturday would have given you a glimpse.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to Rodw, he's obviously trying to do something different down there. But he did ask for opinions, and that can't just mean favourable ones? No one was responding, everyone keeping stumm. What does that say?

I take the point there is cutting edge and cutting edge depending on where you sit. I mean when I was 16 I probably thought Al Kent "You've got to pay the price was cutting edge".

But at the end of the day this part of the discussion comes down to having a venue which will attract people to attend. And a load of good / ok / fair lesser known records is not the answer.

Edited June 27, 201212 yr by Steve G

Hello Rod - it was certainly different where I lived in the 70s as the Soul nights tended to be midweek or on a Sunday ( comedown) and were mainly populated by the same crowd I saw at all nighters - and we tended to hear a fair few of the current top allnighter sounds at these events too due to the availabilty of emidiscs.

Cheers

Manus

Got to agree,back then midweek soul nights were the norm unless an allnighter warm up,anyway clubs and workingmans clubs would have been well attended by their own members so to hire a concert room on a saturday was really out of the question.We had succsesful nights on thursdays as most people would be doing nighters on weekends.I dont think in 2012 the soul nights would be as popular midweek as they used to be or that more people would be attending current allnighters in larger numbers,I may be wrong though.How many promoters would try a midweek night? you would be less likely to clash with other local soul nights. Wrighty.

Got to agree,back then midweek soul nights were the norm unless an allnighter warm up,anyway clubs and workingmans clubs would have been well attended by their own members so to hire a concert room on a saturday was really out of the question.We had succsesful nights on thursdays as most people would be doing nighters on weekends.I dont think in 2012 the soul nights would be as popular midweek as they used to be or that more people would be attending current allnighters in larger numbers,I may be wrong though.How many promoters would try a midweek night? you would be less likely to clash with other local soul nights. Wrighty.

Friday night all-nighters rarely work and a mid week soul might might work whee there is a large student population but relying on soul scene regulars, forget it.

No Matt, have always said the true cutting edge stuff isn't getting casually put up on the internet. That's what makes and keeps it cutting edge. At European events you'll hear it though.

Also upstairs rom at Cleethorpes on Saturday would have given you a glimpse.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to Rodw, he's obviously trying to do something different down there. But he did ask for opinions, and that can't just mean favourable ones? No one was responding, everyone keeping stumm. What does that say?

I take the point there is cutting edge and cutting edge depending on where you sit. I mean when I was 16 I probably thought Al Kent "You've got to pay the price was cutting edge".

But at the end of the day this part of the discussion comes down to having a venue which will attract people to attend. And a load of good / ok / fair lesser known records is not the answer.

A good point Steve..

Keep it real and keep it live...

Don't forget though Steve, maybe the reason you find them not too exciting is because you've heard them all over the last 35 years, whereas a lot of people weren't even born when we started going so the tracks may well be newies to them.

Good point Pete and one reason im finding it harder to get enthusiastic about going out is beause ive heard most of what is played time and time again. There is little imagination on todays scene. Theres a lot of pathy creeping in amongst many who have been there week in week out and not missed ten tears or more. As good as the records are there comes a point when you think what is the point anymore if no one seems bothered about the music.

Friday night all-nighters rarely work and a mid week soul might might work whee there is a large student population but relying on soul scene regulars, forget it.

I Agree Chalky,times have changed but what would it be like if the venues used today for soul nights ie clubs,workingmans clubs were to busy to let their rooms out on weekends,would The soul night scene survive? would there be as many oldies soul nights on as there are now? Ivery much doubt it.And back then Northern Soul was an exiting youth movement.

I am happy with a blend of cutting edge and more familiar quality oldies, an example would be Waymond Hill " what will tomorrow bring on the cutting edge side and The Volumes" aint gonna give you up" on the quality oldies side.. That gives me and a mixed group of mates a balance, we want to dance more than sit around in our anoraks when out at events..

Its all words though aint it.. cutting edge?? to who?? one mans cutting edged is rinsed out to another crowd after its had 6 months of life and a good few plays , its a funny old game...

A selection of what you are calling cutting edge Steve would help this debate..... Many of us are from different parts of the country/ different parts of the world too on here, cutting edge, rare, underplayed just like oldies can mean quite different things to many folks...

Waymond Hall hardly cutting edge though is it now Steve, been about for a while and the Volumes is hammmred to death and needs a bloody good rest.

There is very little cutting edge out there, lots of venues that claim to be cutting edge are playing to a select few, a minority with records that just arent good enough for a wider audience (many simply not good enough and only played cause they are rare or talked about) and the scene needs records that appeal to many not just a minority.

You are in a fortunate situation where you have a strong student following in manchester and will listen to different stuff but they travel hardly anywhere outside of Manchester and once thy come out of University, settle into a normal life will probably be not seen again, they cannot be relief upon to further the scene.

This isnt a criticsism either Steve so plaese dont take it that way, just the way I see it right now.

I Agree Chalky,times have changed but what would it be like if the venues used today for soul nights ie clubs,workingmans clubs were to busy to let their rooms out on weekends,would The soul night scene survive? would there be as many oldies soul nights on as there are now? Ivery much doubt it.And back then Northern Soul was an exiting youth movement.

Less venues the scene would be stronger IMO. It has become so diluted with so many DJ's playing the same records who along with pormoters only seem to care about themselves and not the bigger picture.

Less venues the scene would be stronger IMO. It has become so diluted with so many DJ's playing the same records who along with pormoters only seem to care about themselves and not the bigger picture.

Just interested in your basis for this (not having a go at all) - I'm reading that to mean that you think that if non OVO venues, new nights, and other events you dont like all packed up, thos venues punters would all flood off to venues with DJ's that fit your criteria?

Could be wrong in that.

In fairness, I only know the London area and a few of the venues and wouldn't be convinced that applies down here - for instance there seem to be alot of people who only go to a venue if it's close to them, alot who will only go where they know the music/DJ's/crowd etc, quite a few who are comfortable with what they know and dont like 'new stuff' but also quite a few who are new t i all - my own experience tells me of getting into the music properly tells me 'entry level' venues and DJ's are almost essential to bring new people in.

Probably different in other parts of the country, but if say four local London events were closed, I cant see more than a dozen of the combined punters heading off to some approved venue with approved DJ's playing rare tunes?

As I said just interested.

Dave

Agree wholeheartedly with the first bit Chalks. My view is that there simply aren't the records or the people with access to or who already have them to sustain a so-called 'cutting-edge' scene as such, certainly not in the sense that it used to be.

The inevitable question about how to 'further the scene', to use your phrase, is really interesting in my opinion. Personally, I'd settle for some consolidation as things currently stand; by that I mean the re-emergence of a focal point venue / nighter around which things can find their level again, where those who have been around non-stop for 30 years or thereabouts can get their acts together and / or, of course, where a sensible enough balance is struck to try and attract and 'keep' people from the various 'factions' that seem to have emerged and become more pronounced in the last couple of years. Dunno, maybe the divisions are too deep already?

The difficulty with that, alongside the economics and real-life factors affecting many / most of us now we're not 20 anymore, is that so many people seem to have their own agendas IMHO. I don't need anyone to tell me what I like, what's 'rare', 'underplayed' 'cutting-edge', an 'oldie' etc. What I would really like though is a chance to hear a consistent, quality mix of all of the above in one place with like minded people; dog tired of half empty gaffs with no atmosphere, what to me are, at best, ordinary records presented as something 'different', people who are so off their t*ts they can't see wood for trees musically, and people behind decks - myself definitely included - who'd be better off having a good night and adding to the atmosphere and buzz on t'other side of em.

I think we've all become a bit lazy - promoters, collectors, djs and punters alike. It's infinitely easier to sit on your a*se and talk about it than it is to get out in the real world and make it happen. I've always found that the things you care most about and get the most from are the things you really have to work at and for. Interesting though it is, and people's passion on here reassures and inspires in equal measure so I'm certainly not knocking forums or discussions like this per se, but the same old online chats change little or nothing in real life do they? On the feckin internet ain't the same as on 'the scene' is it? I'll go out of my way to support anyone who I think has the right ethos i.e. it ain't about them, making money or blowing smoke up their own or anyone's a*se and, crucially, who can pull the ingredients together to make it work.

I'd like to think there's still enough of us out who can and would do the same. Maybe so, maybe no? Maybe I just think about it too much and it really ain't that important anymore and we should all just move on? I'd be gutted though ...

Edited June 27, 201212 yr by PhilT

Just interested in your basis for this (not having a go at all) - I'm reading that to mean that you think that if non OVO venues, new nights, and other events you dont like all packed up, thos venues punters would all flood off to venues with DJ's that fit your criteria?

Could be wrong in that.

In fairness, I only know the London area and a few of the venues and wouldn't be convinced that applies down here - for instance there seem to be alot of people who only go to a venue if it's close to them, alot who will only go where they know the music/DJ's/crowd etc, quite a few who are comfortable with what they know and dont like 'new stuff' but also quite a few who are new t i all - my own experience tells me of getting into the music properly tells me 'entry level' venues and DJ's are almost essential to bring new people in.

Probably different in other parts of the country, but if say four local London events were closed, I cant see more than a dozen of the combined punters heading off to some approved venue with approved DJ's playing rare tunes?

As I said just interested.

Dave

Hi Dave,

Horses for courses. London is a complete mish mash of scenes, sub cultures, mutual DJ back-scratching et al. There is so much on, there isn't to use Phil's expression a "focal point venue" at all - just various micro-scenes with some limited crossover of DJs and punters. There are loads of venues most people have never been to, and always a new one starting up somewhere with some sub-set or other. I personally am not familiar with some of the younger gigs like the newish thing at the Boston Arms or the gig that Wiggy was championing in EC1 - never heard of it before. Then again loking at the playlists, I'm not going to be going either. Last "new" gig I went to was Marco's when Butch was on which was very good.

Contrast that with someone who lives say in Devon, Aberdeen or Norfolk - they are lucky if they have one venue a quarter to go to within reasonable (1-2 hour) distance.

So I guess what I am saying is the scene fragmented totally into a range of clubs, all of which will have their day and inevitably fade out over time.

All of which of course is a million miles away from the topic of this thread.....

Edited June 27, 201212 yr by Steve G

Just interested in your basis for this (not having a go at all) - I'm reading that to mean that you think that if non OVO venues, new nights, and other events you dont like all packed up, thos venues punters would all flood off to venues with DJ's that fit your criteria?

Could be wrong in that.

Dave

You are wrong and makes me wonder just how you came to the above from what I said?

Anyone can see from the calendar alone that by and large there are too many venues.

I don't care what he policy is or what the format the DJs will be playing there are far too many.

I've lookked on occasion at e event calendar and within an hour of me some weekends there have been 30,40 and at least once 50 events over the weekend. If that is good for the scene then Christ knows how bad it has to get before it has a detrimental effect on the scene.

Many venues are suffering with attendances, especially in today's economic climate so wouldn't it make sense to do away with some events and have one or two decent events with a full house and great atmosphere no matter what the policy or format of the music?

40 events within an hour of me, you could lose at least 30 of them and have decent events to suit all tastes and still give everyone a choice!

Of course there will be areas where this won't be the case and there is a reasonably healthy local scene but these are few and far between.

It is time for some promoters and some DJs to stop being so selfish and look at the bigger picture, for the good of everyone , all IMO of course. It is time folk got their heads together or banged together

All of which of course is a million miles away from the topic of this thread.....

What is the topic Steve, it says Right of Reply but there's about half a dozen topics being discussed here.

What is the topic Steve, it says Right of Reply but there's about half a dozen topics being discussed here.

I know....but it's all being done in the best possible taste.....where's Russ gone? Maybe should morph into a scene future type thread?

To be fair to Rod, he only listed the records that the djs gave him, i myself played at least 6 or 7 cover ups amongst others that are only known by a very few, ie little tiger etc,think most djs also played quite a few with funny labels on lol, so you cant really get a true reflection, unless you went of course, but as non of you did lol, its hard to give a true comment

So would the 4 unreleased sixties tracks I'm going to play be cutting edge or are they only cutting edge if played by a cutting edge deejay along with other cutting edge tracks....re Rods playlist not my cuppa t for dancing to...prefer later sixties productions and a bit faster.

Plus a lot of the music's actually not very good, that's probably why people don't turn up in droves. You can dress it up as much as you like, 'underplayed', blah blah, but crap is crap no matter what era or format.

Are you saying you know all those records on our Soul in the South playlist & they are all crap..if that's the case then you should have never got involved in Soul music in the 1st place....At a guess I should imagine that the crap you've listened to never gets plays anyway. What about the crap I've heard at Oldies Nites in the past...Gary Lewis & The Playboys, Frankie Bloody Valli & the loads & loads of Blue Eyed Pop music that gets passed of as Classics on the Oldies Only Scene...it's not even Soul Music !!! Wash your ears out cause it seems to me anything you don't know is shit....if you hate Soul Music that much, go & listen to the same Black Sabbath Paraniod LP over & over again for the next 30 years. The reason people don't turn up in droves is cause they can't stand listening to records they don't know...so how the hell can they be into music FULL STOP !!!

Let's clear one thing up. The Northern Soul scene is NOT a Soul scene it's a dance music scene. That's why blue eyed pop records get played and some of them are very good dance records.

And lets clear the people only listen to records they know misnomer up to whilst i'm at it. You don't automatically know all records do ya you have to hear them once some where.

Edited June 27, 201212 yr by Guest

Let's clear one thing up. The Northern Soul scene is NOT a Soul scene it's a dance music scene. That's why blue eyed pop records get played and some of them are very good dance records.

Couldn't agree more. I have to keep stressing that when I tell them I like Ray Merrell, Chapter Five etc.

Couldn't agree more. I have to keep stressing that when I tell them I like Ray Merrell, Chapter Five etc.

That is also part of the scenes problem. Soul purists that don't understand it's about the dance.

Then why don't they call it Northern Pop then instead of Northern SOUL ??? lol......

Then why don't they call it Northern Pop then instead of Northern SOUL ??? lol......

I'm not even going to bother with that.

I knocked around with a load from your way.. Loose, Sean, Witherall, Sarah etc.

Are you saying you know all those records on our Soul in the South playlist & they are all crap..if that's the case then you should have never got involved in Soul music in the 1st place....At a guess I should imagine that the crap you've listened to never gets plays anyway. What about the crap I've heard at Oldies Nites in the past...Gary Lewis & The Playboys, Frankie Bloody Valli & the loads & loads of Blue Eyed Pop music that gets passed of as Classics on the Oldies Only Scene...it's not even Soul Music !!! Wash your ears out cause it seems to me anything you don't know is shit....if you hate Soul Music that much, go & listen to the same Black Sabbath Paraniod LP over & over again for the next 30 years. The reason people don't turn up in droves is cause they can't stand listening to records they don't know...so how the hell can they be into music FULL STOP !!!

I quoted you, Rod, but I wasn't referring to your gig in particular, it was a general statement mate, sorry for any misunderstanding. You actually sound like me on the modern soul forums about eight or nine years ago - sadly Rod, like it or not, anyone with a genuine passion for fresh music is in a very small minority these days, it's exactly the same on the modern scene and at weekenders - anthems and handbags and DJs playing the same records in the same order every single set and side-to-side formation dancing to the same tracks rules the roost unfortunately, genuine music-driven gigs are few and far between now. It's actually all pretty rubbish in terms of music for the most part now, it's just a social thing.

And yes, I hate soul music, I must do because my collection only dates back as far as 1971.

Roger