I don't want to hijack the other thread but some of the comments there reminded me of this article from last year, a doo wop record shop closing because that market's gone, along with the aging fans.

Val Shiveley's quote particularly seems to echo what Pete S is saying. I'm not sure I agree wholeheartedly with their conclusions, but food for thought, enjoy the article.https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/01/nyregion/as-ronnie-is-closes-sounds-of-doo-wop-fade-away.html

Its strange to read about people being worried about how much there going to get or lose when they sell their records.Why would you buy collect and constantly tell people how much the records the soul scene etc means to you,if all your worried about is cashing in.The only people who should be worried are record dealers,who earn there living out of selling records.Unless of course that these oh so precious records and the scene that some are constantly telling anyone who will listen,is a way of life.Isnt actualy as important as a lot make out,just a thought.

I'm a record dealer and I'm not worried. I'm facing up to reality so at least when it happens I'll be prepared.

Its strange to read about people being worried about how much there going to get or lose when they sell their records.Why would you buy collect and constantly tell people how much the records the soul scene etc means to you,if all your worried about is cashing in.The only people who should be worried are record dealers,who earn there living out of selling records.Unless of course that these oh so precious records and the scene that some are constantly telling anyone who will listen,is a way of life.Isnt actualy as important as a lot make out,just a thought.

Most of us bought our records for the reasons you are supposed to, it's just that for some strange reason we are sitting on a fortune, that in todays financial climate simply can't be ignored - In fact, I'd rather they were not worth anything because then it wouldn't be an issue.

I get your point though.

All the best,

Len

I'm a record dealer and I'm not worried. I'm facing up to reality so at least when it happens I'll be prepared.

Yes i know pete and i fully understand what your saying and i agree with your reasons.On a weekly basis theres plenty of folk rattleing on about a way of life or how much there collections mean to them etc.I dont understand why people build collections that they supposedly love,only to want to sell em on for a profit why bother.

The Chinese market LOL. We'll be long gone by then Kev.....

Ian D

I'd rather be doggone, than long gone :-)

i dont care if my records are worth 10p each when im ready to pack in,,,no amount of money can make up for the amount of pleasure theyve given me over the years ....

And there's the point, If you bought for speculative investment, then maybe a loss is on the cards, but if you've loved the music and it's served you all your life, then the loss is fairly insignificant.

One has to respect the make up and durability of our scene including the record collecting,it has weathered everything that the world economy has thrown at it - for many years ! soul records and their buyers have seen it all ,good and bad - huge loads ,collections all soaked up ! when on the shop floor the passion and appetite for vinyl and knowledge is insatiable week in week out.I don't think there has ever been as many collectors of black music, what the doom and gloom fraternity go by is what happens within certain segments of the game,for example soul-source is one of if not the premier forums-but there is a healthy collecting fraternity that purposely avoid all public networking ,there are so many armchair collectors world wide that i know for a fact are very particular where they buy from and again are very private about there passion.No one can predict the future ,but plenty of the relative new comers to the game aren't aware of the so called cheap 45's that you can't give away (supposedly) -they simply need introducing to them , let's face it it's astounding the amount of 45's many of the seasoned collectors aren't aware of.There are so many factors involved that it's nuts to say it's got 3,5,10 ,20 years left,records are forever if you buy em cos you like them ,which is maybe a little problematic for some.

It was me who started this and I'm not doom mongering, I'm talking sense.

Let's say I live for another 10 years, then I die and leave my records to my then 17 year old son, he's going to say wow thanks Dad what am I meant to do with these?

We are getting older and there are too few people coming onto the scene to replace us, and many of these people are from the digital age and only go for the music anyway, not for the collecting side of it.

I'm not saying record collecting will die out, it never will, but there is sure to be a massive excess of Northern Soul records which nobody wants in the coming years.

That's EXACTLY how I'm thinking. I asked my son if he'd want my records and he just laughed at me. I'm not sure he'd know how to play them anyway. Got visions of him forcing one into a CD drive!

records are forever if you buy em cos you like them ,

Exactly, so really the discussion of what they are / will be worth is just that, a discussion and not a concern (to most people anyway)

I'm hopeful I can hang on and keep mine forever anyway - I'd be lost without putting them in some strange order that only I understand.

All the best,

Len

That's EXACTLY how I'm thinking. I asked my son if he'd want my records and he just laughed at me. I'm not sure he'd know how to play them anyway. Got visions of him forcing one into a CD drive!

He he, my Son said he'd keep them "So I won't forget you" - Bless him, he didn't say he'd play em though

Len

Edited February 5, 201312 yr by LEN

Its strange to read about people being worried about how much there going to get or lose when they sell their records.Why would you buy collect and constantly tell people how much the records the soul scene etc means to you,if all your worried about is cashing in.The only people who should be worried are record dealers,who earn there living out of selling records.Unless of course that these oh so precious records and the scene that some are constantly telling anyone who will listen,is a way of life.Isnt actualy as important as a lot make out,just a thought.

I don't think it's so much about losing money. I think you just get to different points in life where you stop and assess things. Some of us haven't bought a record in years, and have almost no intention of playing what we have. The need to keep them diminishes. Much like the photos in the loft, they can all be put on a CD etc.

He he, my Son said he'd keep them "So I won't forget you" - Bless him, he didn't say he'd play em though

Len

Perhaps, when we're gone, he can share a skip with my lad to dump them in !

I don't think it's so much about losing money. I think you just get to different points in life where you stop and assess things. Some of us haven't bought a record in years, and have almost no intention of playing what we have. The need to keep them diminishes. Much like the photos in the loft, they can all be put on a CD etc.

Fair point i suppose but that cd will never be the same lol.Equaly there are plenty of its a way of lifers who bought so they could cash in,they might be a little dissapointed with the return on their investment.

Yes they are mate - I paid £1,200.00 for Andy Fisher and that was a few years ago, and 4 years prior to that, the person I bought it off also paid £1,200.00 for it (Still worth it to me)

This could be just a lucky day for the buyer of course, or maybe it's that the ‘Up-tempo Terrorists’ are winning - They have to be stopped I tell you!

All the best,

Len

A large swath of slow and midtempo tunes in the classics bracket are not currently in vogue as they are "too nice" ............not raw or funky enough...........and therefore being passed over......sure they will come back at some point.................imo

The other point about the future of vinyl surely has to be the future of technology. If and when they stop making players things will fade further into the specialist corner..............and those new markets we forecast (China) might just be happy with mp3 ?

The other point about the future of vinyl surely has to be the future of technology. If and when they stop making players things will fade further into the specialist corner..............and those new markets we forecast (China) might just be happy with mp3 ?

Well the Chinese are known for copying everything (phones, ipods), so there'll be more boots and carvers than ever

He he, my Son said he'd keep them "So I won't forget you" - Bless him, he didn't say he'd play em though

Len

Perhaps, when we're gone, he can share a skip with my lad to dump them in !

Not suggesting that your records are as bad as mine by any means

A large swath of slow and midtempo tunes in the classics bracket are not currently in vogue as they are "too nice" ............not raw or funky enough...........and therefore being passed over......sure they will come back at some point.................imo

Unfortunately you are right......No soul some people aye?…..So the ‘Tempo War’ continues…..

Tastes do change, as you say 'in vogue', and I also expect things will change again (again) Mid-tempo not for the big rooms at present, unless 3 or 4 slipped in without anyone noticing , but the smaller rooms seem to be embracing them again.

Point of topic being, this style not in vogue, so prices have dropped a tad on them.

All the best,

Len

Edited February 5, 201312 yr by LEN

Not suggesting that your records are as bad as mine by any means

Oh, I expect they are!

Len

This is a funny subject if you think about it, as it was the last thing on my mind when I started out and continued to buy records. The thing was to, ‘get the b*stard in ya mits’ then you were a ‘Happy Bunny’….Right, what’s next?......and so on……

My concern is the fact that they are worth something, and the only reason I am focusing on that fact, is because I (as are others) am relatively skint at present, my records are the last thing I would want to part with.

But if (like me) you are running around in a car with a cracked wind screen, and the engine makes a bubbling sound every day on the journey to work, and you have a few records that could buy you a new car - Now that is ridiculous……but I will not sell I tell you!

Seriously though, I do think it’s getting close, do you know what? We actually ran out of Merlot the other evening - It was devastating, it’s the kind of thing you only imagine happening to someone else……

All the best,

Len

Edited February 5, 201312 yr by LEN

As a record dealer I travel a lot around the states buying the records that will soon be worthless , but I don't agree about the price coming down, it's just people's tastes change all the time so what I couldn't give away 10 years ago are today's £100.00 records and the £100.00 records of 10years ago are today's £50.00 records.

So your collections will hold their value it's just the ones you think should be worth a lot, may have lost value but many of the ones that you thought we're worth nothing will be tomorrow's rare items.

As for the ageing soul population, in my travels in the past few years I have been pleasantly surprised at the age of buyers especially in the states is going down and as their knowledge increases they will be hunting the records you are to eager to get rid of in such a hurry.

Bob

This is a funny subject if you think about it, as it was the last thing on my mind when I started out and continued to buy records. The thing was to, ‘get the b*stard in ya mits’ then you were a ‘Happy Bunny’….Right, what’s next?......and so on……

My concern is the fact that they are worth something, and the only reason I am focusing on that fact, is because I (as are others) am relatively skint at present, my records are the last thing I would want to part with.

But if (like me) you are running around in a car with a cracked wind screen, and the engine makes a bubbling sound every day on the journey to work, and you have a few records that could buy you a new car - Now that is ridiculous……but I will not sell I tell you!

Seriously though, I do think it’s getting close, do you know what? We actually ran out of Merlot the other evening - It was devastating, it’s the kind of thing you only imagine happening to someone else……

All the best,

Len

I don't know you mate, but your plight is deeply moving. I propose to donate all proceeds from the sale of my Del Capris Grapevine picture sleeve towards a bottle of Jacobs Creek for you.

ive had 75 45`s up for sale in the last week and sold 55 of em so for me the buyers market is alive and kicking...... maybe its about the pricing if its right it sells if its not it wont. records come in and go out of fashion some come back in some will never be back... once a price goes up folk are reluctant to see it come back down again. maybe the guides have done no favours in this and some will sit on a record booked at 100 til the day they die rather than part with it for less.. but every record will sell for the right price for many many years to come imvho

A large swath of slow and midtempo tunes in the classics bracket are not currently in vogue as they are "too nice" ............not raw or funky enough...........and therefore being passed over......sure they will come back at some point.................imo

Midtempo at low prices = bliss

I don't want to hijack the other thread but some of the comments there reminded me of this article from last year, a doo wop record shop closing because that market's gone, along with the aging fans. Val Shiveley's quote particularly seems to echo what Pete S is saying. I'm not sure I agree wholeheartedly with their conclusions, but food for thought, enjoy the article.https://www.nytimes.c...-fade-away.html

For a few years I thought NS records were on their way down, in terms of price. For sure the £50 records mostly seemed to have their values go down to £20-ish. Having said that watching last weekend's "The 3 Ebay Super Scratchy Sellers", FunkYou!, Burl*one and Sharlow45 auctions, my word didn't they get top prices for their stuff ? Most were ruffa than sandpaper.

Edited February 6, 201312 yr by Chris L

I'd never sell any tunes because of a particular present or future trend.....I do sell some 45s to fund a new want if the funds aren't available.....or if personal financial circumstances required they be sold then tunes would be sold.

Seriously though, I do think it’s getting close, do you know what? We actually ran out of Merlot the other evening - It was devastating, it’s the kind of thing you only imagine happening to someone else……

All the best,

Len

Now that's what I call a financial crisis

Cheers

Manus

Hi there if you brought your records as a long term investment/nest egg and havn't cashed in yet best hurry up .Should have invested in rare British motor bikes or medals these are historic and have many fold apeals.If you brought your records as a hobbie with a bit of spare cash and finds at second hand shops/ car boots and alike well you've won.Keep your records and enjoy them untill the end they'll last forever and your kid's will have fond memories of a few and will end up keeping "The old man's choons"I never look at my records as a long term investment as i never look at my cloath's as being an investment say you paid a hundred quid for a pair of boots and wore them on and off (no pun ) for ten years you'd be crazy to expect money back for them but you spent a hundrd quid and had your money's worth having said that i have got a nice pair of wolverine 1000 miles and they fetch good money second hand.This week/weekend how much money will people spend at the bar/on a meals ect that money will never come back to you so i look at records the same why sell them when you retire you can enjoy them and talk about them on soul source on the oap's section (large letters) regards Simon.

ive had 75 45`s up for sale in the last week and sold 55 of em so for me the buyers market is alive and kicking...... maybe its about the pricing if its right it sells if its not it wont. records come in and go out of fashion some come back in some will never be back... once a price goes up folk are reluctant to see it come back down again. maybe the guides have done no favours in this and some will sit on a record booked at 100 til the day they die rather than part with it for less.. but every record will sell for the right price for many many years to come imvho

Dave I think thats bang on and as Andy Dyson pointed out ive probably still got another 20 years of collecting in me til im 70, and there is a lot of people world wide collecting far younger than me so andy & pete S can rest assured dont worry about the pension

However Pete did make a valid point that the medium for listening to music (ipods, downloads etc) and how the youth approach music is different to ours and it maybe technology & not neccesarily the style of music that changes how tracks are re-played to the massess,

i hear 60 and 70s soul tunes now that my daughter at 15 and her mates are listening to as new sounds to them and they are loving it, most of her mates families were not soul lovers just chart listeners and they are gettin into it so the good tunes keep getting new audiences and theyll search and hear more and evolve their tastes as we have, but they are hearing them over the net or on their Phones... they love collecting... but its collecting "downloads"... we could only tramp to djs records or rumbelows or Callers etc to get a bit of plastic in the rain hail and shine.... same tunes......... different tech culture

for us vinyl junkies I think the mega resurgence that created a collecting fever, that in turn over inflated some of the mid range prices is cooling and more than anything prices are settling back to realistic levels, and the biggies they keep their tags and....well i still cant fooking afford them

Geeoooooooordie

Geeoooooordie

just a quick ad on here , my mate's really into koi carp and spent a fortune on the fish and pond's and all the other stuff he said he's spent around twenty grand in ten years he's even got a little train track and his wife could send him a cup of tea across the garden on it.When it was time to sell his house the carp went for next to nothing and the ponds were filled in because the new house owners didn't want ponds as they had small kids the track and trains and other bits an bob made him a couple of hundred quid.So does it matter what your hobbie/passion is ? no it's about that moment in time when you get a little bit more for your passion , and remember record collecting is an addiction.

I think we're all agreed on this - The prices seem to be settling down to realistic levels, and this is an observation of a positive thing.

Good point made about people spending fortunes on Beer over the years, whereas we have something to show for our spare cash.

All the best,

Len

P.s - It don’t feel right this. Can someone please aggressively disagree to give this thread some oomph!

Edited February 6, 201312 yr by LEN

For a few years I thought NS records were on their way down, in terms of price. For sure the £50 records mostly seemed to have their values go down to £20-ish. Having said that watching last weekend's "The 3 Ebay Super Scratchy Sellers", FunkYou!, Burl*one and Sharlow45 auctions, my word didn't they get top prices for their stuff ? Most were ruffa than sandpaper.

Hi Chris,

When I'm putting certain records up, I include a full clip of the preferred side. There are times when I'm completely shocked at what something brings. About 2 years ago, I put up a VG- copy of Bobby Sheen's Dr. Love, figuring $20-$40 maximum, but it brought $114...blimey!

Reading lots of the comments on here it seems the markets died just because prices are coming down, point is the record(s) is(are) still selling so no loss of market there or am I missing the point.

Reading lots of the comments on here it seems the markets died just because prices are coming down, point is the record(s) is(are) still selling so no loss of market there or am I missing the point.

I think you are missing the point, honestly, because the point, the one and only point, was not about record prices but about people getting stuck with huge collections because they have no one to hand them down to because in a decade, two decades, anyone who wanted them will have shuffled off...

Pete's correct actually, apologies if I took it in a slightly wrong direction. Anyway, I am a bit out of touch with ref prices in general, I buy what I buy and that's all I focus on. I've just seen that ‘The Soul Bros Inc - Pyramid' has sold for £839.00 on an auction - Is that an amazing price or is that what was expected? Just trying to put all this into perspective, I think I paid £200.00 you see.

All the best,

Len

Edited February 6, 201312 yr by LEN

Once I have em they have no financial value in monetary terms...n I would flog me hoop before selling my records....its the same old same old debate that rears its ugly head every few years...dont beleive the hype....the market twists n turns, sounds come in n out of vogue, but essentially its business as usual & will remain so for the foreseable future....panic over lol

Best Russ

When I was lucky enough to discover the "Northern Soul" phenomenon in 1974, I like most at the time probably never imagined the longevity of "our scene" or even thought about it I suppose? Almost 40 years on, and as I've quoted in another thread, am more interested in the collecting side of things than ever before! Whilst I feel privileged at this stage of my life to at last be in a position to utilise my "disposable" income on an interest I have largely revered throughout my involvement,I do so nowadays out of almost childlike excitement, rather than thinking of investment, as my passion for the music far outweighs the thought of what tomorrow may bring!.As selfish as it sounds,whilst my loved ones will be cared for, I live for today, my records and my music are more important to me now than they've ever been.....And there ain't no pockets in a shroud!

Edited February 6, 201312 yr by wilxy

... no one to hand them down to because in a decade, two decades, anyone who wanted them will have shuffled off...

Speak for yourself. Some of us aren't that close to retirement age or death just yet. I look forward to the great record glut of the 2030s!

The people with the records will be respected once again and the rest will follow - It will be a funny old world when the digital era crashes!! OVO wil last forever.

I think you are missing the point, honestly, because the point, the one and only point, was not about record prices but about people getting stuck with huge collections because they have no one to hand them down to because in a decade, two decades, anyone who wanted them will have shuffled off...

Once again, I agree entirely. I would sooner somebody have the pleasure of my records than to think they'll end up in a quarry somewhere surrounded by tesco bags and nappies, (a bit like me on my stag night )

The people with the records will be respected once again and the rest will follow - It will be a funny old world when the digital era crashes!! OVO wil last forever.

Thats right and the world is still flat no matter what anyone says

When I was lucky enough to discover the "Northern Soul" phenomenon in 1974, I like most at the time probably never imagined the longevity of "our scene" or even thought about it I suppose? Almost 40 years on, and as I've quoted in another thread, am more interested in the collecting side of things than ever before! Whilst I feel privileged at this stage of my life to at last be in a position to utilise my "disposable" income on an interest I have largely revered throughout my involvement,I do so nowadays out of almost childlike excitement, rather than thinking of investment, as my passion for the music far outweighs the thought of what tomorrow may bring!.As selfish as it sounds,whilst my loved ones will be cared for, I live for today, my records and my music are more important to me now than they've ever been.....And there ain't no pockets in a shroud!

I reckon we must have been separated at birth mate, my experience exactly

Pete's correct actually, apologies if I took it in a slightly wrong direction. Anyway, I am a bit out of touch with ref prices in general, I buy what I buy and that's all I focus on. I've just seen that ‘The Soul Bros Inc - Pyramid' has sold for £839.00 on an auction - Is that an amazing price or is that what was expected? Just trying to put all this into perspective, I think I paid £200.00 you see.

All the best,

Len

It is a bit high. I sold one for £600 about 18 months ago and I thought that was about the highest it went.

ive had 75 45`s up for sale in the last week and sold 55 of em so for me the buyers market is alive and kicking...... maybe its about the pricing if its right it sells if its not it wont. records come in and go out of fashion some come back in some will never be back... once a price goes up folk are reluctant to see it come back down again. maybe the guides have done no favours in this and some will sit on a record booked at 100 til the day they die rather than part with it for less.. but every record will sell for the right price for many many years to come imvho

Your prices were fair dave, that's why you sold them

I see people on SS selling the same records time and time again - reason - they are too fucking expensive - HELLO - wake up and smell the coffee

Just because a £100 record is now £300 as its proved to be quite hard to get, it doesn't mean that an easy to get £10 is now worth £30!!!!!

Get real record sellers - if you want to sell, price them correctly

Your prices were fair dave, that's why you sold them

I see people on SS selling the same records time and time again - reason - they are too fucking expensive - HELLO - wake up and smell the coffee

Just because a £100 record is now £300 as its proved to be quite hard to get, it doesn't mean that an easy to get £10 is now worth £30!!!!!

Get real record sellers - if you want to sell, price them correctly

I promise I will try

I promise I will try

Wasn't referring to you pete - your prices are fair

It's the other muppets I'm referring to

Sorry muppets if you are offended!!!!

But get real!

most times I put up a want I dont get a sniff, demand must far outweigh supply even in this economic downturn ........ just an observation!!

From a youngsters point of view i would say demand definetly outweighs supply on good items. The market is always changing but there are always room for rare and quality items ;)

Some records labelled northern will drop as that scene is changing but stuff like dellarks, tomangoes, mr soul etc etc will always be in style - they are timeless and true rarities that expand over different tastes in music.

Leo

tastes change.....so what I couldn't give away 10 years ago are today's £100.00 records

Having very little cash bitd meant that I couldn't buy all the records I really wanted, so I used to Hoover up anything with a big hole in it from record shops, junk shops etc - if it looked like it may have been a soul single and it was cheap, it went home with me.

The amount of money I've took in the last two year or so off ov selling those 10/20/50p singles that weren't in vogue back then would surprise you.

Valid point.

Just to add a point, I'm not sure tastes change so much, they just develop - I didn't like Thai aubergines when I first tasted 'em but I love 'em now,

Edited February 9, 201312 yr by Barry

The Val Shively article picks up on the impact of the internet making maintaining a shop uneconomic, and it echoes what's hitting our high streets with out of town shopping centres killing local smaller scale shops.

For those of us who used to enjoy casually going to the record shops back in the 70's, not even stopping to think about whether they would exist in the future, the chance to still find shops selling soul on vinyl has been prolonging the pleasure, but for most of us requires a fair old journey - they're not on your doorstep, and probably not in your town or even county.

But as the record shops slowly close up, that pleasure of thumbing through a stack of records gets tied down to record fairs, car boots and junk shops, and soul nights. You can buy on the internet, but just as iTunes doesn't give you that same physicality that a 7" platter can, neither does clicking on a website come close to walking into a record shop and glancing around to spot the box labelled "Soul".