I see that there was a similar thread that mentioned this Test Press started in 2007 with recent comments. However, thought I'd start a current thread as the other one may get overlooked due to it's age. Also, the current sales info refers to folks who are respected members on this site. Dave Flynn and Robb K.

 

Mods, please merge or delete this as appropriate.

 

Pat has a Chris Clark test press of "Do I Love You" for auction. Starting bids £3,000.

 

There were a number of similar items around a few years ago as mentioned in the other thread. However, Pat has listed various reasons why this is the real deal including comments made by Dave F and Robb K.

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

Original Thread -

 

(p.s. thread not intended to either hype or de-rail the auction, or question anyones credentials, just interested  )

By who?

 

By the person who told me the information on how you tell an original.

By the person who told me the information on how you tell an original.

Who happens to be?

 

Who happens to be?

 

 

John Manship

John Manship

Why would Johnny do that? Trade secrets or summat?

 

Probably non of my business.

 

Why would Johnny do that? Trade secrets or summat?

 

Probably non of my business.

 

 

Best ask him 

 

First of all, let me declare an interest. It is my Chris Clark record which is currently up for auction, so people should be aware of that before I make any comments.

 

Thank you Lee (Dobber) for your kind words on our dealings and conversations over the last year or so; and, from a position of your having seen them, you made some accurate points over both the Chris Clark and Martin Luther King records.

 

For anybody who might be interested in the record, or have any queries, I would suggest that you firstly read the description on the auction page, then do feel free to give Pat Brady a call (he has the vinyl and all supporting evidence to hand) and he will be happy to talk you through it in detail. 

 

Other than that, I shall try to refrain from posting again unless it is to generally clarify any new points (or mis-information) which need responding to. It is not my intention to try to 'bump' this thread or use it as a sales promotion. I would however welcome PMs or phone calls if anybody wishes to contact me.

 

Kind regards,

 

Peter

 

thankyou peter,i might add its very good of you too let the guys know its your 45 for sale,i might also add that when i was considering buying the record,that i also looked at some copys from the 80's,and there were differences there! the 80's copies really do look like they are repros,where as your copy looks,felt,and smells a hell of a lot older,and i would defo clarify that the mlk record is also a bevelled edge,and i very much doubt that that has been booted!

thankyou peter,i might add its very good of you too let the guys know its your 45 for sale,i might also add that when i was considering buying the record,that i also looked at some copys from the 80's,and there were differences there! the 80's copies really do look like they are repros,where as your copy looks,felt,and smells a hell of a lot older,and i would defo clarify that the mlk record is also a bevelled edge,and i very much doubt that that has been booted!

 

Has anyone ever seen an original 60's record with a bevelled edge?

Has anyone ever seen an original 60's record with a bevelled edge?

i know very little of the process of vinyl in a plant,but is it possible that they all start off as a bevelled edge and then a final cutting process sharpens the edge off? 

Has anyone ever seen an original 60's record with a bevelled edge?

I've got a 70's record (Not ARP pressed) that has a beveled edge,

I think the expression 'caveat emptor' springs to mind

With Julian B on this.  

How much did the Chris Clark on Brady's site go for tonight ?

How much did the Chris Clark on Brady's site go for tonight ?

 

I dread to think

Last time I seen it it was up to£3275.00 !!!!!

Last time I seen it it was up to£3275.00 !!!!!

 

   

does anyone know if it actually sold? and if so...how much?

 HI ALL...The BOX SET copy of Frank Wilson b/w Chris Clark Tamla Motown 982 153, is the 1st legit UK copy of Chris Clark "do I love you (indeed I do), was this version dubbed from disc or taken from studio tape that has been re,mastered?  DAVE K

does anyone know if it actually sold? and if so...how much?

Don't think there's a way to tell from Pat's auctions, or Tim's for that matter. Or is there?

Richard

HI ALL...The BOX SET copy of Frank Wilson b/w Chris Clark Tamla Motown 982 153, is the 1st legit UK copy of Chris Clark "do I love you (indeed I do), was this version dubbed from disc or taken from studio tape that has been re,mastered? DAVE K

not from a box set ! Two separate 45s were released approx same time atb mr d

Too many question marks over this for me!

and then ask yourself, would you play it out anyway or are you just buying it because its rare?(even that is questionable).

If you are buying it for the latter then good luck to ya, I personaly would'nt touch it with a barge pole! Which brings it back to taste again. Sorry its not for me!

Great reading as always, Knowledge on here is just awesome!

Respect n ktf

Clint

Edited November 17, 201311 yr by SLAMMINSOUL

Too many question marks over this for me!

and then ask yourself, would you play it out anyway or are you just buying it because its rare?(even that is questionable).

If you are buying it for the latter then good luck to ya, I personaly would'nt touch it with a barge pole! Which brings it back to taste again. Sorry its not for me!

Great reading as always, Knowledge on here is just awesome!

Respect n ktf

Clint

 Totally agree Clint!    hope you're keeping well mate!

Is that the sort of info Robb K would know ?

 

Just a thought

 

Swifty

I agree with phild here.  I'd be hesitant to believe the pressing in the photo is original.  I can't say that it is NOT original.  But, if it were my money, I'd have been skeptical, to remain safe.  It looks very like the original that I found in The Motown Vault in 1977.  The handwriting on the dotted lines, and stamped form is the same.  But it is significantly lighter, with the printing frayed on the edges, like the effects on photocopied image.  I only saw one studio demo and one Jobete Music acetate in The Vault.  Both of those "mysteriously" came up for auction in the 1980s.  Perhaps more acetates and "Demo copies" were made off of one of those, and new labels made from a photo of the original studio demo were made to place on them.   I'd have to see the plastic in person, to comment on whether or not it looks like a genuine '60s pressing.

Totally agree Clint! hope you're keeping well mate!

Hey ! all good this end! Hope yr keeping well too pal

Clint

Edited November 17, 201311 yr by SLAMMINSOUL

thankyou peter,i might add its very good of you too let the guys know its your 45 for sale,i might also add that when i was considering buying the record,that i also looked at some copys from the 80's,and there were differences there! the 80's copies really do look like they are repros,where as your copy looks,felt,and smells a hell of a lot older,and i would defo clarify that the mlk record is also a bevelled edge,and i very much doubt that that has been booted!

I didn't read this post before.  If this one looks different from the known '80s repros, and looks and feels like a '60s pressing, then it is likely to be an original.  The one I saw didn't have Chris Clark's autograph on it.  But that could have been added later at an appearance by her in The UK.  The hand written writing was significantly darker on the one I had in my hand.  But that was 35 years ago.  So, it may well have faded some.  being bevelled doesn't help us.  It could have been either way in the '60s at the Detroit sound studios Motown used.

I love the fact that this record has sprouted so much phenomenal knowledge from a hive of incredible minds. Pretty awesome really.

 

This version is much better than the Frank Wilson version IMHO. I'll stick to my £10 boot I got from Pete S years ago. ;) 

I didn't read this post before.  If this one looks different from the known '80s repros, and looks and feels like a '60s pressing, then it is likely to be an original.  The one I saw didn't have Chris Clark's autograph on it.  But that could have been added later at an appearance by her in The UK.  The hand written writing was significantly darker on the one I had in my hand.  But that was 35 years ago.  So, it may well have faded some.  being bevelled doesn't help us.  It could have been either way in the '60s at the Detroit sound studios Motown used.

 

You are quite right on the autograph Robb, Chris was kind enough to sign it during her appearance at Skegness a couple of months ago. This test press came to me from Tim Brown, who bought it directly from Ron Murphy.

You are quite right on the autograph Robb, Chris was kind enough to sign it during her appearance at Skegness a couple of months ago. This test press came to me from Tim Brown, who bought it directly from Ron Murphy.

Ron was a good friend of mine.  He usually rescued old studio demos he found loose in long-forgotten boxes sitting in pressing plants.  Companies that had regular orders in a given plant would leave test pressings and at lest one (if not 2) demo records at the plant as a reference for the plant operators before future press runs.  It seems now, that there must have been 2 of that particular demo, as the one I found in The Vaults "disappeared"(was lifted by some employee) from there around 1980 and was later auctioned off at the same time as several other demos and Jobete Music acetates.  Ron must have found the other at one of the Detroit pressing plants or mastering facilities).   Often, 2 were made, one being kept at  the pressing plant, and one given to the customer (hence the Motown copy in The Vault).

I had a similar, at least, copy in my hand of this and I also had a detailed and informed discussion about the actual record that was sold in the auction relative to it, and about the specific similarities between the auction copy and the version in my hand at the time.

 

I did not have both copies together at the same time. However, if the auction copy was the same as the copy I had in my hand, I would have to say it was wrong based on the general condition, type of vinyl pressing (especially bevelled edge), label paper type and quality, printing of label, the width of deadwax which was very wide, and the matrix marks.

 

It could of course be that the copy auctioned was similar to, but not the same as, the copy I had in my hand - and that the auctioned copy was a true original while the copy in my hand was a bootleg.

 

Having said all of the above, I would not have touched the auction copy with a barge pole.

 

Just my opinion and a partial one, not having had both records in front of me at the same time.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

Edited November 19, 201311 yr by Premium Stuff

Ron was a good friend of mine.  He usually rescued old studio demos he found loose in long-forgotten boxes sitting in pressing plants.  Companies that had regular orders in a given plant would leave test pressings and at lest one (if not 2) demo records at the plant as a reference for the plant operators before future press runs.  It seems now, that there must have been 2 of that particular demo, as the one I found in The Vaults "disappeared"(was lifted by some employee) from there around 1980 and was later auctioned off at the same time as several other demos and Jobete Music acetates.  Ron must have found the other at one of the Detroit pressing plants or mastering facilities).   Often, 2 were made, one being kept at  the pressing plant, and one given to the customer (hence the Motown copy in The Vault).

 

 

I didn't read this post before.  If this one looks different from the known '80s repros, and looks and feels like a '60s pressing, then it is likely to be an original.  The one I saw didn't have Chris Clark's autograph on it.  But that could have been added later at an appearance by her in The UK.  The hand written writing was significantly darker on the one I had in my hand.  But that was 35 years ago.  So, it may well have faded some.  being bevelled doesn't help us.  It could have been either way in the '60s at the Detroit sound studios Motown used.

 

 

Thank you for all the extra information Robb. Very interesting, especially as it comes from someone who was there.

 

I think this point about bevelled edges on 1960s Detroit studios' output is particularly pertinent

being bevelled doesn't help us.  It could have been either way in the '60s at the Detroit sound studios Motown used.

 

I'd love to see one

being bevelled doesn't help us.  It could have been either way in the '60s at the Detroit sound studios Motown used.

 

I'd love to see one

By far, the vast majority were NOT bevelled.  So, I'd be careful about a demo that IS bevelled, AND doesn't have a stamp.  I just meantthat being bevelled doesn't automatically make it CERTAIN that it has to be a post '60s pressing.  The odds are that it is post '70s, but we can't be sure based on that.  I don't remember seeing any Motown demo records pressed at American Record pressing (ARP) that were bevelled, nor any that didn't have the stamp on them.  That doesn't make it CERTAIN that it was a boot, but I would go with the odds and be leery of putting out money for it, hoping that it is an authentic original.

Edited November 19, 201311 yr by RobbK