This is a great song, mixing a distinctive high in the mix rolling JA snare sound, slow beat, haunting horns with a yearning soulful vocal

 

I can understand the appeal to collectors, especially as it was issued on a UK label (Doctor Bird)

 

I was interested in how/when this became in vogue...was it on a dj playlist? (I would have thought it would be too slow to set the dancefloor on fire, unless it was at the local youth club and you got to canoodle!)

 

Maybe it's just gained legendary status through collectors?

 

Can anyone shed any light?

 

Many thanks

Totally off the radar except to UK label collectors until the very late 90's or turn of the millenium...

It's more revered as a crossover sound rather than northern. As Pete said, late 90s

It's more revered as a crossover sound rather than northern. As Pete said, late 90s

nope much earlier can remember this being spun @ The Legendary Parker's soul sessions in Manchester . Methinks they started around January 1990 ....

I remember first hearing it around 96 possibly 97.  Me and my mates started going out in Manchester on Sunday nights and would have a walk around what is now known as the Northern Quarter although at that time it was pretty dead but with some good old fashioned boozers and Dry Bar of course.  

 

Anyway pubs and bars were closed by 10.30 - 11 except the Burton Arms next door to the Band on the Wall.  The Burton Arms had a late licence due to some historical anomaly due to being close to the old Shude Hill Market.  A guy called Martin the Mod had a residency there playing, not surprisingly mod scene records which was pretty good and had a good following.  Martin always played Glen Miller and none of us had ever heard it before.  I remember one week David Ripolles had, for whatever reason a copy of Willie Wade "when push comes to shove" with him (like you do) and asked Martin to spin it after Glen Miller.  A perfect blend.

 

If my memory serves me correctly, a year or so later my old mucker Dean Johnson started playing  Glen Miller at crossovery type events and subsequently in the tent at the Fleetwood Weekender.  Whether Dean heard Martin play it may be incorrect and  Dean has an extensive collection of all things relating to JA music, although I do have a vague recollection that the two of them DJ'd at a Rufus Thomas gig.  Taking a tongue in cheek Manchester centric approach!, Martin the Mod discovered it and Dean made it popular on the "crossover" scene.

 

I certainly don't recall it being played at Parkers but stand to be corrected.  That all said, it must have been known, as Pete points out, to collectors of the label just needed a scene to play it on.

 

Regards Alan

I bought it for the other side (Funky Broadway) from a stall on Portobello Road in the early 90s - it was a tenner.

 

A Japanese bloke (who knew the 'Where is the love' side) saw it as I was buying it and tried to gazump me - luckily the bloke on the stall ignored him.

Edited January 16, 201510 yr by john s

ok, thanks for the replies

Not that I'm obsessed with this tune or anything

I just noticed this 45 up for sale... All the copies I've seen pics of on Dr Bird have the pop out centre. This has a set centre...like some of the recent 'Sanctuary records' Trojan et.c re-issues

Not saying it's not legit...just curious

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GLEN-MILLER-WHERE-IS-THE-LOVE-FUNKY-BROADWAY-7-45-UK-ORIG-DICTOR-BIRD-DB1089-EX/162911944981?hash=item25ee4f0115:g:QoIAAOSwXqVajSoI

 

Edited February 26, 20187 yr by cutdown69

Mine has the push out centre also. Doctor Bird did do a few solid centre releases but I've never seen this Lloyd & glenn 45 as a solid centre, still don't think it justifies the asking price though!!

Solid centres on UK 45's seem to have come in some time in 1966 and for years after solid centres and push-out centres co-existed on the same labels,with the same records.UK Stateside Soul 45's,particularly in 67'/8 are a good example;I have The Vontastics' Lady Love with a push-out centre but have seen solid centre copies.James & Bobby Purify's Let Love Come Between Us seems to only exist as a solid centre. With Doctor Bird, push-out centres are more common,as Modularman has stated above.

Same with Coxsone and other reggae labels it would seem.

From what i've heard the JA press of WITL is a bit more complicated. On Stag you want a dark brown label not the lighter golden one which i've heard is a later press. Can anyone confirm that?

Thanks, 

J

On 16/01/2015 at 17:44, glynthornhill said:

can remember this being spun @ The Legendary Parker's soul sessions in Manchester . Methinks they started around January 1990 ....

 

On 16/01/2015 at 18:37, Darkes said:

If my memory serves me correctly, a year or so later my old mucker Dean Johnson started playing  Glen Miller at crossovery type events and subsequently in the tent at the Fleetwood Weekender. Martin the Mod discovered it and Dean made it popular on the "crossover" scene. Regards Alan

If you'd have asked this question 2 or 3 years ago I could've told you exactly where, when and how all the answers you ever wanted to know. Even down to what colour socks I had on when I bought my copy.

But these days I've all on to remember that I once had a copy (smile).

For me personally I would have suggested exactly what the above 2 chaps have said. And thank you Alan - you summed it up so neatly with all the relevant details.

My story on how I got a copy of said 45 is quite funny but too long winded - especially the way I tell 'em - to reproduce on here (laughs).

Dx

I was first played this by Andy Hynd in the mid-80s, so I think this was being played on the mod scene back then. 

T

Was deffo known on the Mod Scene generally by us Jamaican collectors .But dint really take off till the 90s on the Soul Scene

Ady Lupton has it on JA Stag im sure its the Brown one but its been along time since ive seen it 

I don't know. There is a collector I know from the Liverpool / Chester / North Wales area who has been deep into both Jamaican music and  Soul and aware of the crossover between the two since the late 60s  / early 70s and has had this record since then. Can't name names cause the guy is totally under the radar and as far as I know wants to stay that way but the records he's got.. man alive ! He definitely has connections with people named above, though...

Edited February 27, 20187 yr by JoeSoap

18 hours ago, Alan H said:

Was deffo known on the Mod Scene generally by us Jamaican collectors .But dint really take off till the 90s on the Soul Scene

Ady Lupton has it on JA Stag im sure its the Brown one but its been along time since ive seen it 

Alan was going to say that it might actually have been you I heard playing it back then, but I'm glad I wasn't mistaken as to the timescale.

 

On 26.2.2018 at 15:46, corbett80 said:

On Stag you want a dark brown label not the lighter golden one which i've heard is a later press. Can anyone confirm that?

Thanks, 

J

I also read that a few times but I am not sure if that is really the case. Would be interesting to know!

 

Because Jamaican music everything comes down to a guy told another guy, and then he told me!

Memory might be playing tricks on me but I can remember having a conversation with one of the London skins/suedes, late eighties about what soul was on reggae labels and I think this was mentioned back then. Got a copy off here, I think,  for about £70, no centre, passed it on shortly after as I couldn't ever see me playing it out. 

On 27/02/2018 at 19:02, schwabenchris said:

I also read that a few times but I am not sure if that is really the case. Would be interesting to know!

 

Because Jamaican music everything comes down to a guy told another guy, and then he told me!

Would the Roots knotty Roots book have any info? Ive never actually had a copy to read it...

On 04/03/2018 at 23:52, corbett80 said:

Would the Roots knotty Roots book have any info? Ive never actually had a copy to read it...

Hello All

I dont go online anymore so using wifes facebook log in, but thought you might like to know my view on the Jamaican label variations

I had both label variations at the same time a few years ago and I can tell you that the dead wax markings and heavy weight
pressing thicknesses are identical, these were pressed at the same time. 100% both totally original in my oppinion.
In fact I kept the yellow label version because it was in better nick and sold on the brown silver to a Soul guy in Spain.

It was pressed at west indies records - matrix wirl 3168 a with a tiny 1ga in the deadwax just after the matrix (both identical)
both my copys came from the same Jamaican dealer in Kingston Jamaica

Also the West indies records plant went up in flames in late 67 or 68 so there were no more wirl pressed discs after this
Edward Seager the owner sold what whas left of the site and the business the Byron Lee who rebuilt the studio and plant into the famous Dynamic studios.

Unless someone can actually lay claim to knowing someone who worked at wirl before it whent up in flames in the late 60s to confirm as to why there are two coloued labels I would say the its all just conjecture concerning a second press of this 45

I would of thought they would have simply ordered the wrong amount of labels initialy to complete the run?

Thanks Guys, thats my oppinion,

Keep collecting
Gareth Thomas

I am the Martin the Mod referred to and yes am still DJ'ing. I did discover this tune and it's nice to see my name mentioned. My lovely wife and I played this as we walked down the aisle after our wedding.

On 01/11/2025 at 21:57, MJM said:

I am the Martin the Mod referred to and yes am still DJ'ing. I did discover this tune and it's nice to see my name mentioned. My lovely wife and I played this as we walked down the aisle after our wedding.

Memorable nights at The Burton Arms Sunday Sessions. I think Dean got his copy from Alan at Earwaves when he'd moved the shop just off Piccadilly Gardens, from The Corn Exchange Shop.

Yes I remember Dean getting his copy but it was a long time after I started playing it. Believe it or not I am back DJ’ing at the Burton Arms in its new incarnation of the Rose & Monkey in what is now the NQ. In fact I’m next there on Saturday 29th November if anyone fancies coming. In another strange coincidence I actually met my best man who is still one of my best mates all these years later through Alan.

Pretty sure I had this on a tape swap late 80s early 90s. Remember hearing it at odd venue early to mid 90s, Wilton possibly being one of the places.

Edited November 3Nov 3 by Chalky

If anyone remembers Robinsons Records in Manchester they had bins of cheap singles in front of the counter. These were a mixture of UK pop, soul and reggae labels and some US issues. Occasionally these would be topped up from loads more in the basement storage. In 1977 I got to go through the basement where there was thousands more UK reggae singles. Some of the labels I remember were Pyramid, Doctor Bird, Bullet, Blue Beat and quite a few others. The only artists I would be looking for were Roland Alfonso, Busters All Stars and The Soul Brothers as a DJ in Belgium sent me his wants lists with these on. Anything else I'd just flick past. I can't be 100% sure but it seems more than likely that there would be copies of Glenn Miller.

A couple from somewhere down south once came up and went through the basement singles as they were collecting reggae. They took a few hundred so there must have been some rare stuff as they told me they had been all over the country buying singles. Did they take Glenn Miller?

Martin, do you remember when and where you got your copy of Glen Miller, how much it cost and did you already know it?

This is the wants list from the Belgium DJ Luc Heymans. He may have wanted these for playing in the Popcorn clubs but could have just been for his own use.

I do, it was way before I met you Rick. I got it in one of my local record shops and the owner who I still know actually gave it to me. His exact words were, “it’s some sort of reggae, your sort of thing and you can have it”. I was buying a lot of that sort of stuff off him so I was given it as a gift. I didn’t know it before that and I’ve never met anyone else that knew it before that point either.

19 minutes ago, MJM said:

I do, it was way before I met you Rick. I got it in one of my local record shops and the owner who I still know actually gave it to me. His exact words were, “it’s some sort of reggae, your sort of thing and you can have it”. I was buying a lot of that sort of stuff off him so I was given it as a gift. I didn’t know it before that and I’ve never met anyone else that knew it before that point either.

Some great nights as well, at The Roadhouse, when we did The Ritz Niter "warm ups" and seem to remember it making an article in Manifesto Magazine. Remember Brian from Old Trafford and Neil Henderson DJing and Buzz FM from a flat somewhere in Hulme, think one of the shows prematurely ended, when the Aerial fell off lol

On 07/03/2018 at 18:54, Guest Corrie Thomas said:

Hello All

I dont go online anymore so using wifes facebook log in, but thought you might like to know my view on the Jamaican label variations

I had both label variations at the same time a few years ago and I can tell you that the dead wax markings and heavy weight
pressing thicknesses are identical, these were pressed at the same time. 100% both totally original in my oppinion.
In fact I kept the yellow label version because it was in better nick and sold on the brown silver to a Soul guy in Spain.

It was pressed at west indies records - matrix wirl 3168 a with a tiny 1ga in the deadwax just after the matrix (both identical)
both my copys came from the same Jamaican dealer in Kingston Jamaica

Also the West indies records plant went up in flames in late 67 or 68 so there were no more wirl pressed discs after this
Edward Seager the owner sold what whas left of the site and the business the Byron Lee who rebuilt the studio and plant into the famous Dynamic studios.

Unless someone can actually lay claim to knowing someone who worked at wirl before it whent up in flames in the late 60s to confirm as to why there are two coloued labels I would say the its all just conjecture concerning a second press of this 45

I would of thought they would have simply ordered the wrong amount of labels initialy to complete the run?

Thanks Guys, thats my oppinion,

Keep collecting
Gareth Thomas

Great info - thanks Gareth!

On 06/11/2025 at 10:30, Corbett80 said:

Great info - thanks Gareth!

Thanks , that was me , I didn’t have an account on here at the time

On 07/03/2018 at 18:54, Guest Corrie Thomas said:

Hello All

I dont go online anymore so using wifes facebook log in, but thought you might like to know my view on the Jamaican label variations

I had both label variations at the same time a few years ago and I can tell you that the dead wax markings and heavy weight
pressing thicknesses are identical, these were pressed at the same time. 100% both totally original in my oppinion.
In fact I kept the yellow label version because it was in better nick and sold on the brown silver to a Soul guy in Spain.

It was pressed at west indies records - matrix wirl 3168 a with a tiny 1ga in the deadwax just after the matrix (both identical)
both my copys came from the same Jamaican dealer in Kingston Jamaica

Also the West indies records plant went up in flames in late 67 or 68 so there were no more wirl pressed discs after this
Edward Seager the owner sold what whas left of the site and the business the Byron Lee who rebuilt the studio and plant into the famous Dynamic studios.

Unless someone can actually lay claim to knowing someone who worked at wirl before it whent up in flames in the late 60s to confirm as to why there are two coloued labels I would say the its all just conjecture concerning a second press of this 45

I would of thought they would have simply ordered the wrong amount of labels initialy to complete the run?

Thanks Guys, thats my oppinion,

Keep collecting
Gareth Thomas

Doubt pressed at same time exactly, same year yes? Stag first then picked up by Doctor Bird maybe? WIRL pressing pant was rebuilt after the fire and was pressing discs, photo here from 1970 I found on FB.

L

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

Doubt pressed at same time exactly, same year yes? Stag first then picked up by Doctor Bird maybe? WIRL pressing pant was rebuilt after the fire and was pressing discs, photo here from 1970 I found on FB.

L

my understanding it was owned and rebuilt by Byron Lee and was pressing records on the dynamic label by this time

I also think that the pressing run on stag would have been that small and the fact that it would have not sold enough to warrant another pressing run would indicate it was just a mess up with the screen printed labels

Same pressing run but two different labels

That’s my view

It’s shit rare on both labels so I feel it was just a label thing

The doctor bird cut was dubbed from a stag 45 apparently

This is the Jamaican stag 45

It’s so much rarer than the doctor bird release

Interesting and mad that this 45 appealed to fans of crossover and 60s

To me it is pure 60s Jamaica

But very happy that it crossed over onto the soul scene

The other stag copy I had I sold to a Spanish dj about 20 odd years ago , he told me that it was the first copy on the scene in Spain and it went on to be massive in Europe

I think I sold it for 200 quid at the time so it was already starting to get played and gaining attention already at that point

So I am quite chuffed to know that I played a small part in the story of this 45 by sending it to Spain

I bought my 2 stag copy’s off Danroy Wilson who I was told was Delroy Wilson’s son or nephew

I bought quite a lot of Jamaican records off him at the time

Edited Sunday at 21:155 days by Gaz T

It has been reissued in uk in 2002 and is quite hard to find on Fab u lus.

On 01/11/2025 at 21:57, MJM said:

I am the Martin the Mod referred to and yes am still DJ'ing. I did discover this tune and it's nice to see my name mentioned. My lovely wife and I played this as we walked down the aisle after our wedding.

Are you Martin Mellors ? 

If you are 

I used to come over to your Manchester things in the 80s 

I’m remembering a pub with hundreds records glued to the wall 

We are the Mods from Chester who used to be about then

We are all still collecting records and see each other regularly , we just don’t get out on the soul or mod scenes anymore

Just old boring dudes 😂

Edited Sunday at 21:395 days by Gaz T

Remembering

Collectors of Jamaica 45s find it interesting why certain 45s even achieved label status , I believe the blanks were pressed first , then a run with labels if there was demand

The fact that where is the love had two different labels is ridiculous

Has anyone got an original blank of Glen Miller ?

I’ve never seen one

Edited Monday at 14:104 days by Gaz T

On 09/11/2025 at 19:56, Gaz T said:

I also think that the pressing run on stag would have been that small and the fact that it would have not sold enough to warrant another pressing run would indicate it was just a mess up with the screen printed labels

Same pressing run but two different labels

That’s my view

It’s shit rare on both labels so I feel it was just a label thing

The doctor bird cut was dubbed from a stag 45 apparently

thanks for the info Gaz

Another question I have is, does anyone know who it might be on vocals....I think I heard it could have been Junior Soul (who had some tunes including 'Glendevon Special' as well as 'Chattie Chattie', and his name is connected to Junior Murvin, who scored with his falsetto on Lee Perry's 'Police and Thieves'. Can't see the resemblance myself

I have no idea if the name Glen Miller was a guise for another singer.

14 hours ago, Gaz T said:

I have no idea if the name Glen Miller was a guise for another singer.

I was told by a reggae collector that it was Glen Brown of Lloyd & Glen fame

Edited yesterday at 13:331 day by Modularman

4 hours ago, Modularman said:

I was told by a reggae collector that it was Glen Brown of Lloyd & Glen fame

Connection is the stag release 45 by Lloyd and Glen

No more trouble , so may well be

Doesn't jump out as same voice to me on this, but very possible listening to other things by them

Interesting , thanks for that.

I had never made the connection

It sort of adds up as the 2 Glen miller sides funky broadway and rocksteady party are sort of soul / funky things that Lloyd and Glen were doing as a duo

Edited 18 hours ago18 hr by Gaz T