I'm well out of the loop these days with regard to what gets played in 60's NS rooms BUT I do sometimes come across tracks on YOUTUBE that have been posted by Northern guys ... I was surprised to see a couple of tracks by Dora Hall posted up as NS spins ... made me really laugh ....

Dora was born in 1900 and was a music hall star (of sorts) in the 1920's before marrying a multi-millionaire. She settled down, started a family & the like .. BUT by the early 60's, she was wanting to make a comeback and so started cutting 'vanity recordings'. Her hubby, via his company (Solo Cups),  sponsored TV shows that starred her and added free 45's (by her) as give-aways with packs of his disposable plastic cups ... He also started (what are called on-line) a couple of fake record labels on which to put out LP's & singles by her. So her 45's were free give away items that now seem to be commanding decent money ... 

Nothing about the NS world shocks me these days BUT to have DJ's chasing / spinning freebies made by a rich white grandmother in her 60's seems to take the biscuit.    

MORE INFO on the couple & his cup company ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solo_Cup_Company#Founder

Edited June 5, 20186 yr by Roburt

Pretty Boy was the one that has had most plays. 

Others by her that get plays ....

AND the one Chalky mentioned ... her vocals are just as bad on this .. 

 

They weren't trying too hard to hide the links to the plastic cup company of this LP's record label.... wonder what HB made of it all ... 

Think I'll try covering this one up ...

 

Edited June 5, 20186 yr by Roburt

I don’t really remember any of the others being played, not on the northern scene, maybe ghe odd time out of curiosity after hearing Pretty Boy. It was no secret when Pretty Boy got played what the records were made for as the sleeves were for promo purposes. 

41 minutes ago, chalky said:

I don’t really remember any of the others being played, not on the northern scene, maybe ghe odd time out of curiosity after hearing Pretty Boy. It was no secret when Pretty Boy got played what the records were made for as the sleeves were for promo purposes. 

Chalky, you obviously don't know what gets played just up the road from you, as her "Barefootin" was a big play at King Bee Rhythm ‘n’ Blues Club in Sheffield (they promoted their nights on here too). ALSO a "Franklin St" track video was put up on YOUTUBE by Lancashire AGoGo ... and all their posts are of NS spins. 

Edited June 5, 20186 yr by Roburt

4 hours ago, Roburt said:

Chalky, you obviously don't know what gets played just up the road from you, as her "Barefootin" was a big play at King Bee Rhythm ‘n’ Blues Club in Sheffield (they promoted their nights on here too). ALSO a "Franklin St" track video was put up on YOUTUBE by Lancashire AGoGo ... and all their posts are of NS spins. 

King Bee not Northern is it, its an R&B club so not my usual kinda haunt.  Haven’t the foggiest who lancashire agogo is. 

Edited June 5, 20186 yr by chalky

It’s All Over is a nice track of hers - mid pace and ripe for playing out. She has several other recordings on Reinbeau, Cozy and Calamo labels that qualify as Northern but none as good as Pretty Boy. In fact, she could be a contender for one of the most prolific blue-eyed female soul artists.

Franklin Street? First and hopefully the last time I hear it. Bring back Tim Tam and Peggy March, all is forgiven:)

Ed

She recorded Hoochi-Koochi  on Premere  - which is great; well I think it is

Neil

Anyone want to join?

3 hours ago, neilb said:

She recorded Hoochi-Koochi  on Premere  - which is great; well I think it is

Neil

 

16 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

 She has several other recordings on Reinbeau, Cozy and Calamo labels that qualify as Northern but none as good as Pretty Boy. In fact, she could be a contender for one of the most prolific blue-eyed female soul artists.

Just about all the output on the LABELS (?) named above were by her. They were owned / run by her multi millionaire husband & (as already stated) were give-away items not shop sold records. She released 100's of tracks, nearly all total crap (even if some of the songs were decent, here singing on them wasn't). She cut vanity records coz she had the time & money to do so. Most were covers of existing hits performed by a grandmother in her 60's who could no longer carry a song. 

SORRY, but if this is what NORTHERN has recently descended to, I will be staying in the modern room. 

Well I’m buying many records performed by artists in their later years, including modern. 

Reminds me of the kind of thing Rodd Keith was doing!

Must admit, I do like 'It's All Over' and 'Pretty Boy'.

I'm sure we've all got a favourite tune that everybody else can't stand.

I'm with Roburt on this artist though. Just plain bad. Spoils a good song.

Like me doing Karaoke..... 

Ed

just choked on me sandwiches listening to these - to be fair i only got a few seconds into each of them....

24 minutes ago, bbrich said:

just choked on me sandwiches listening to these - to be fair i only got a few seconds into each of them....

As I said in a topic a few months ago,when talking about what music I like,I always use the word Soul,never Northern Soul.Talking about a singer like this on a Soul forum is an absolute Joke. 

43 minutes ago, Wheelsville1 said:

As I said in a topic a few months ago,when talking about what music I like,I always use the word Soul,never Northern Soul.Talking about a singer like this on a Soul forum is an absolute Joke. 

But it is basically a northern soul forum not soul. Almost everything about it is towards the scene. 

50 minutes ago, chalky said:

But it is basically a northern soul forum not soul. Almost everything about it is towards the scene. 

I guess so chalky,on that note your right. 

Dora Hall ! , Great Tracks ,and all no more than 5$ all over discogs!  Northern is a ," Style " ,"Genre" a " Category" encompassing varied music!  Why the Ageism ,Sexism ,against the Delightful Dora ?.   Chalky, I'm with you ,this site would not be where it is today without us Lunatic Northerners . L.O.L.

21 hours ago, algsoul said:

 

my copy for sale if anybody wants it m- £30 all in

Some of her tunes were arranged and conducted by H.B. Barnum....pedigree right there!

 

Edited June 6, 20186 yr by Soul-Slider

10 hours ago, Roburt said:

Just about all the output on the LABELS (?) named above were by her. They were owned / run by her multi millionaire husband & (as already stated) were give-away items not shop sold records. She released 100's of tracks, nearly all total crap (even if some of the songs were decent, here singing on them wasn't). She cut vanity records coz she had the time & money to do so. Most were covers of existing hits performed by a grandmother in her 60's who could no longer carry a song. 

SORRY, but if this is what NORTHERN has recently descended to, I will be staying in the modern room. 

No need to apologise Rob but you’re a tad wide of the mark. Northern Soul does not descend...it cherry picks the best bits to rise above other musical genres. Dora was a Chicago artist I guess, maybe like Timi Yuro. That’s enough in itself to put her on a plinth. She was devoted to her art. The cover versions she cut bear comparison with the original songs. She has left a legacy that we are giving serious consideration to. Pretty Boy is a classic uptempo number that has been played out in public for decades and compiled on albums.

You are granted a pardon to be spared of the modern room on the strict understanding you listen to a few tunes by Duffy and Joss Stone to recalibrate your hearing... There’s also a few 60 year old grannies (and grandads) on here so go easy on us Brits - we might be getting on in years, but appreciation of a half-decent tune grows over time. Now where did I put those Dolly Parton 45’s on Monument...

13 hours ago, Soul-Slider said:

Some of her tunes were arranged and conducted by H.B. Barnum....pedigree right there!

HB is no SOUL pedigree in my book. Not to diss the man or his work, but he was never a "soul hero" IMO. Good at what he did but rarely "on the edge" of sounds, emotions or lyrics. I still love his 'too hurt to cry' which it's his most "northern soul" emblematic song IMHO ! But further there is not much he's done with his voice on the "soul" side.

And if he's done few descent productions, arrangements and compositions, off which not many come to my mind instantly, he's more and most of the time on "pop" commercial projects than anything else. On the pay back side of things, I wish him that the money was good with the Dora Hall productions as sacrifice... LOL

Edited June 7, 20186 yr by tlscapital
precision on HB pedigree

Names associated with HB Barnum include OC Smith, Lou Rawls, Freda Payne, Spanky Wilson, Johnny Bristol, O'Jays, 100 Proof Aged in Soul, Nancy Wilson, Jr Walker, Jackson 5, Al Wilson, Smokey Robinson, Buddy Miles, Edna Wright, Gladys Knight, Irma Thomas, James Brown ... as well as a lot of performers not in any way associated with soul. Looks like the resume of a professional freelance musician and arranger who has the versatility to cover a wide spectrum from soul to pop, not unlike Quincy Jones (who produced Lesley Gore), and who was reliable and trusted by various contractors. The OC Smith association spans the 60s to his 1982 "Love changes" classic LP, for example.

On the subject of what this forum is about, there's a definite northern slant here, but there's nothing on the home page at the moment that says it is specifically northern. "Soul alive since 1997" would suggest that northern was one of various sub-genres or groupings within the soul spectrum. I know what to expect here and I'm happy with it, because in practice it seems that most posters enjoy soul music, which was a major part of the northern scene anyway. And I enjoy learning about that scene's history. That history includes debates like this thread re Dora Hall, who on most other soul forums would appear only because of her association with HB Barnum, if at all.

On ‎05‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 16:41, chalky said:

Haven’t the foggiest who lancashire agogo is. 

I think I'm right in saying Lancashire a go go is Stuart Raith Chalky

Hey !

No bad words must ever be directed at HB Barnum.

HB Barnum once saved 'The Don' AKA  David Axelrod from being knifed to death in a Los Angeles park by a gang of Latino muggers...HB apparently came to Axelrod's aide and went absolutely beserk, flooring the lot of them.

For that non musical act alone he is a hero of the highest calibre.

Hurrah for HB Barnum !

Dora Hall is rubbish though in my opinion.

You can have your thread back now...

6 minutes ago, Mickey Finn said:

Names associated with HB Barnum ... as well as a lot of performers not in any way associated with soul... On the subject of what this forum is about, there's a definite northern slant here...

People HB worked with and others; exactly. Some names I like from your "soul" list here but none of their work in association. But this is merely my taste, so it's not to debate. Just the same; I love Phil Spector early 6T's work, don't care for his work for the Beatles and never liked the character.

HB was talented as a business man with ego none the less. I was a Jamaican music lover and collector before being an American soul lover and collector, so I have met the name of HB prior with 6T's "ska" when it was a "jump in the commercial wagon" in the USA by 1964/1965... (sic).

Northern Soul being my "HQ", as a crate digger I have had to listen and discover many records and got to love other "schools" of soul music along the way and this ear self education lead me to part the Soul in and from the Northern. Soul that is !

Like many I have my guilty secrets, but unlike these "mystery tracks", I will always defend mind, body and soul the Soul in the Northern. At least that is what I believe I am hearing and errrh doing... Now I doubt that... LOL ! This to say, I was too rarely impressed or pleased by the HB "touch".

So serving as credential for something that... years ago I had all the pain in the world to sell on, really doesn't do it for me. Sincerely with no offense to anyone on here, tastes are that, at least I have learned things on the "artist" and can say more than never on that Dora as to why my NO GO !

7 minutes ago, Twoshoes said:

I think I'm right in saying Lancashire a go go is Stuart Raith Chalky

I know Stuart well mate but not sure of his youtube moniker

Had to laugh, really, at this quote from Alan Hazan (producer of some of Dora's records). You can imagine it....

In any event, the music background really turned out well and all the musicians were anxious to discover who the singer would be. I could see the disappointment on their faces when Ms. Hall walked into the studio and took her place behind the vocal mike. Jack Nitzsche looked especially disappointed. We had really come up with a terrific background recording and now, everyone felt it would probably be for nothing. Since I knew from the beginning who was going to sing the songs, I simply continued my work as the producer of the session. After the musicians left, I spent a couple of hours getting the best I could from the lady. In a way I admired Ms. Hall for having the courage to follow her dream no matter what and, as far as I was concerned, her husband had hired me to do a job and I was doing it. That's why it's called the music business.

BTW: The musicians involved were 'The Wrecking Crew'.

Edited June 13, 20186 yr by Soul-Slider

On 05/06/2018 at 12:43, chalky said:

Pretty Boy was the one that has had most plays. 

C/u as the Sequins by Rob Marriott