My Dad's Bigger Than Your Dad

[Barry]

Is the ability to be able to expend heavily on vinyl, therefore proving your love for a music/scene more than the next man (see the John Cleese, Ronnie Barker & Ronnie Corbett 'Class' sketch) really prove anything at the end of the day?

Without another to display your collection/expenditure to (a scene for eg), is collecting vinyl nothing more than keeping up with The Jones'.

The majority, not all may I add, of collections that come up for sale have always appeared to come from people that have dropped out of the scene....which says to me that 90% of a collections value to many is in it's display value.

Without someone to show it to - what is it worth?

Please don't drop, what I would see as, the obvious responses to this question.

I have no one these days to display my wares to anymore, but I still buy them for me, like so many others on here - but there must be a degree of madness involved when it comes to being able to collect vinyl = at todays prices.

Is there an element of ' if a tree falls in a forest an there is no one there to witness the event, does it make a noise' - that's a bit cryptic innit, sorry, but I hope you get my general drift.

Yes or no?

[Jason S]

Surely it's subjective and depends on the individual.

If you have huge amounts of disposable income then spending heavily on a 'hobby' maybe means something different to if you spend heavily on a 'hobby' in order to convert it into some kind of 'career' (DJing) or if you're buying those expensive objects in order to attain/buy some kind of respect from your peers. The former often needs nothing more than personal satisfaction from acquiring possessions as it's raison d'etre, whereas the latter needs a captive audience of one or more in order to justify the expenditure - there are record buyers out there that would admit to 'not being collectors but DJs', not having a collection but a set of records that are earmarked for DJing, the records being tools for the job first, foremost and probably solely - fair enough. That may rankle against the romantic notion that 'artforms' such as records (produced primarily as commodities to generate an income for those involved in thier production, don't forget) shouldn't be 'reduced' to mere objects to be easily bought and sold once their 'use' has expired. But essentially that's what they are....mass produced objects originally created as an advertisement of the makers abilities. And the more they sold, the better. Of course there are those who are able to both collect and 'use' their collection to DJ with - I guess that's maybe where the true desire shows through: an urge to share the music (though there has to be the inevitable aspect of one-upmanship too, that's just the spirit of being competitive) coupled with a desire to 'have it all' to satisfy a personal crusade.

Why does anyone collect anything? Sense of personal achievement? Generate respect amongst peers? An obsession to have everything? Maybe some people live through their posessions and need to have them as evidence of their existence? Take away the posessions what's left?

I'm not sure about your statement "I have no one these days to display my wares to anymore" seeing as this forum alone provides a perfect platform to display your wares, all you have to do is look in the media section...or in a slightly different way, in the wants/sales posts for that matter: the classic 'mine's not for sale' or 'paid xxx (insert low price) for mine in 1977", friendly but undeniable 'cock waving' done, in one respect out of a need to display the collected wares to peers (and if anyone denies that, they're kidding themselves) Nothing wrong with it but maybe it shows that for some folk there's an innate need to feel that their collection is worth more than the records that it contains: maybe as you hinted at, for some, if it's not shared (in whatever form...DJing, posting up media clips, commenting on sales/wants to tell people that they have a copy of something) maybe it doesn't really exist (like the tree in the woods) In a culture of competitiveness surely one-upmanship is a natural and healthy part of it, keeps it ticking over and keeps people pushing the boundaries. That said I'm not sure spending heavily proves you love the music any more than someone who doesn't have the means to do that. Proves you have more cash and maybe shows that the music is sometimes secondary to just 'owning' things: "Took me 15 years to find this, finally got it, played it twice then filed it away". But like I say, surely it's subjective and people do this for their own reasons.

[KevH]

Hi Barry,here's my take on it.

Buy what you personally like,pay what you consider YOUR price.If you get the chance to play 'em out ,good luck to yer.

Oh,and you can collect without going out (armchair collectors).Some of these guys have the best collections.

ps.,my dad's only 5' 3" .

[Supercorsa]

I'm not sure about your statement "I have no one these days to display my wares to anymore" seeing as this forum alone provides a perfect platform to display your wares, all you have to do is look in the media section...or in a slightly different way, in the wants/sales posts for that matter: the classic 'mine's not for sale' or 'paid xxx (insert low price) for mine in 1977", friendly but undeniable 'cock waving' done,

Cock waving?? I'm looking forward to JumpingJoan, Jo Wallace & Cookie having a go at this with their collections!

[Jason S]

Cock waving?? I'm looking forward to JumpingJoan, Jo Wallace & Cookie having a go at this with their collections!

Yeah, I realised that kinda didn't apply to the ladies in the strictest sense - mind you, it's not usually them who jump all over sales/wants threads...

[Baz Atkinson]

Surely it's subjective and depends on the individual.

If you have huge amounts of disposable income then spending heavily on a 'hobby' maybe means something different to if you spend heavily on a 'hobby' in order to convert it into some kind of 'career' (DJing) or if you're buying those expensive objects in order to attain/buy some kind of respect from your peers. The former often needs nothing more than personal satisfaction from acquiring possessions as it's raison d'etre, whereas the latter needs a captive audience of one or more in order to justify the expenditure - there are record buyers out there that would admit to 'not being collectors but DJs', not having a collection but a set of records that are earmarked for DJing, the records being tools for the job first, foremost and probably solely - fair enough. That may rankle against the romantic notion that 'artforms' such as records (produced primarily as commodities to generate an income for those involved in thier production, don't forget) shouldn't be 'reduced' to mere objects to be easily bought and sold once their 'use' has expired. But essentially that's what they are....mass produced objects originally created as an advertisement of the makers abilities. And the more they sold, the better. Of course there are those who are able to both collect and 'use' their collection to DJ with - I guess that's maybe where the true desire shows through: an urge to share the music (though there has to be the inevitable aspect of one-upmanship too, that's just the spirit of being competitive) coupled with a desire to 'have it all' to satisfy a personal crusade.

Why does anyone collect anything? Sense of personal achievement? Generate respect amongst peers? An obsession to have everything? Maybe some people live through their posessions and need to have them as evidence of their existence? Take away the posessions what's left?

I'm not sure about your statement "I have no one these days to display my wares to anymore" seeing as this forum alone provides a perfect platform to display your wares, all you have to do is look in the media section...or in a slightly different way, in the wants/sales posts for that matter: the classic 'mine's not for sale' or 'paid xxx (insert low price) for mine in 1977", friendly but undeniable 'cock waving' done, in one respect out of a need to display the collected wares to peers (and if anyone denies that, they're kidding themselves) Nothing wrong with it but maybe it shows that for some folk there's an innate need to feel that their collection is worth more than the records that it contains: maybe as you hinted at, for some, if it's not shared (in whatever form...DJing, posting up media clips, commenting on sales/wants to tell people that they have a copy of something) maybe it doesn't really exist (like the tree in the woods) In a culture of competitiveness surely one-upmanship is a natural and healthy part of it, keeps it ticking over and keeps people pushing the boundaries. That said I'm not sure spending heavily proves you love the music any more than someone who doesn't have the means to do that. Proves you have more cash and maybe shows that the music is sometimes secondary to just 'owning' things: "Took me 15 years to find this, finally got it, played it twice then filed it away". But like I say, surely it's subjective and people do this for their own reasons.

Well said Jason lots of common sense in your observations,for me its subjective been down the road of buying bigger items in the mid to late eighties,its a dangerous road to tread,my tastes are so wide now that the notion of big items does not appeal to me at all,as my subjective view would always be what deep or sweet or gospel could I have got for the 3-4k ? As for value to collection well dont give a f--k about the market value as when i go the records may as well come with me,each one holds a memory [a place a person,a venue]etc!

Spending heavily does not prove a love of the music[how many truely big collectors are tapped in to the wider world of soul music?]From a personnel point of view any money is hard earned these days, on what was essentially a working scene in the seventies some of the prices paid really get thinking as to the question are you truly getting value for money,the market is so fickle anyway.Good thread this!

BAZ A

Edited May 18, 2008 by baz atkinson

[gazman]

Is the ability to be able to expend heavily on vinyl, therefore proving your love for a music/scene more than the next man (see the John Cleese, Ronnie Barker & Ronnie Corbett 'Class' sketch) really prove anything at the end of the day?

Without another to display your collection/expenditure to (a scene for eg), is collecting vinyl nothing more than keeping up with The Jones'.

The majority, not all may I add, of collections that come up for sale have always appeared to come from people that have dropped out of the scene....which says to me that 90% of a collections value to many is in it's display value.

Without someone to show it to - what is it worth?

Please don't drop, what I would see as, the obvious responses to this question.

I have no one these days to display my wares to anymore, but I still buy them for me, like so many others on here - but there must be a degree of madness involved when it comes to being able to collect vinyl = at todays prices.

Is there an element of ' if a tree falls in a forest an there is no one there to witness the event, does it make a noise' - that's a bit cryptic innit, sorry, but I hope you get my general drift.

Yes or no?

Interesting question. Why do we bother colecting anything? There is a myriad of answers each specific to the individual. Competetiveness is part of human nature and on-up-manship will always thrive on a scene, in an odd way that's what moves it on, the desire to have the next big thing. I collect records because i enjoy it and it's for me. I don't care if what i buy is rare, valuable or cheaper that the next blokes I buy because I enjoy. I'm sure that keeping up with the jones's is motivation for some but isn't that what makes it all interesting the fact that we're all different.

I agree with Jason (JBrew) that this forum provides the perfect place to show your wares and a fantastic way to expand your knowledge and taste. I enjoy posting tunes, none of which are particularly rare or expensive but I've explored my collection deeper than ever in doing so and found a taste for genres (deep) i didn't have previously. Why not let others hear your tunes, it's good to share!

I also agree with BAZ, value doesn't mean much to me, I've collected records since I was a child and for a time diversified into deep house and garage. I'm sure if i had bought 'Soul' records instead, my collection would be considerably bigger but i did enjoy the other stuff when I bought it, so I've no regrets.

Thank you for asking the question as I think that everyone has asked the same of them selves at some point, I'm not sure there's a difinitive answer though!

gary

[billysbag]

I think it must make a noise when it falls whether youre there or not.After all a tree...well its big and heavy isnt it? must make a noise mustnt it?

[Lenny Harkins]

lets go back to the cock waiving bit.

[sister dawn]

Cock waving?? I'm looking forward to JumpingJoan, Jo Wallace & Cookie having a go at this with their collections!

I dont know about waving anything but having a sneaky peek is what you blokes do all the time... ''tales from the urinals''.

I collect simply and purely because I love certain tracks and I know others who attend my venue will enjoy dancing to them as much as I love playing 'em. If their on the original label the better as far as Im concerned. If its a high cost piece of vinyl I'll skank the net and various sales til I find one that is within my price range. Its called pride not snobbery in owning that elusive spin.

[Geordiejohnson]

ive collected from a very young age, i think it stemmed from my fathers love of music, he would buy lock himself in the front room and get lost in his music,... i am now my father... doing the very same, i collect for me..the fact that i can play my tunes out gives me a certain amount of pleasure..but to sit on my own and get totally absorbed by the production of a tune that i find is sheer class whether its fast or slow and try to feel what it was like to make that tune..blows me away that sometimes i get close to tears...and to own it in its original format gives ...for me. the complete package..its not about price or rarity its about bloody well produced records that blow ME away..

personaly im not bothered about waving my cock...its done its duty and pleasured a few ladies and filled two prams..and i look straight ahead in the urinals

Geeooooordie

Edited May 18, 2008 by geordiejohnson

[Ian Dewhirst]

lets go back to the cock waiving bit.

OK, Lenny, I've always found that the combination of waving my cock whilst showing people my huge collection generally has the desired effect..............

Ian D

[billysbag]

ifn me sprerchen zie nichsen groscn mais neimen dosen minen

[Spacehopper]

while im sure there are collectors and djs who do it for one upmanship and there egos most ive met have not,most have been genuinely into the music first and foremost...

ive been collecting and playing vinyl since i was 5 years old....ok back then in 72 it was the osmonds and slade etc but i also played my dads motown 7s,he also had little queenie and jb and sam and dave lps played full vol every sunday and i loved it and these are my oldest memories...through my teens i spent my spare cash on two tone 7s where my mates spent theres on pacman !....i got a criminal record through shoplifting lps to order although i kept most for myself !....

ive now been djing since 89 both reggae and soul...aswell as makin a little extra cash to spend on vinyl as i have a shit paid job i also love flicking through tunes finding a great tune putting on the needle and waiting for the intro to kick in this is why sitting down and listening to a cd will never do it for me....

as far as big money tunes go i cannot afford them...i never spend over £50...to me its not the buzz of boasting ive spent x ammount but the opposite...if i can get a tune for loads less than the book price thatll do me if i cant theres shit loads of wicked originals in my price range recently ive spent under a tenner on tunes such as the esqiures "how could it be" and had people comin up every time i spin it and asking what it is and writing it down in their mobiles and searching for it...giving other people that thrill i got when i first heard it is the best thing about djing to me

then there are those that would say if its just about the music why even spend 50 when you can but a boot for a fiver....aswell as the originals actually looking and normally sounding better i have no pension plan so long may the value keep rising cos one day when im too f***** to carry them around i will transfer them to whatever format is around then and sell them to the new collectors...well thats the plan anyway !

[Guest Mrs Simsy]

I think it must make a noise when it falls whether youre there or not.After all a tree...well its big and heavy isnt it? must make a noise mustnt it?

I dont know about waving anything but having a sneaky peek is what you blokes do all the time... ''tales from the urinals''.

I collect simply and purely because I love certain tracks and I know others who attend my venue will enjoy dancing to them as much as I love playing 'em. If their on the original label the better as far as Im concerned. If its a high cost piece of vinyl I'll skank the net and various sales til I find one that is within my price range. Its called pride not snobbery in owning that elusive spin.

I agree! Too tired to expand anymore!

[Roddy]

ffs boys/girls lets stop looking at our belly buttons we collect buy listen to great tunes mostlydance records of onesort or another.

therefor i suggest we get back to having a fucking good time.

[ZapatootheTiger]

It's simple for me.

I'd rather have the collection I've worked for, hunted down, bought, been given or been sent above anyone else's. I don't do it for the smugness rating or one upmanship and I've rarely played out...

Having said that, there are always a few small regrets and a touch of envy over individual records I hear about that others have and I missed out on. But not many.

[Barry]

ive been collecting and playing vinyl since i was 5 years old....

Oh, stop it off.

Again, my question has asked for an adult response and not attained it.

I sit and read on here about dj's being allowed a 'hotbox' allowance for eg - it seems that it is an accepted practise...by normal punters/collectors/NS people....if you are a dj that is.

I have parted with records - ONLY - when I have been financially F*cked...and it's broke my heart, and had the asre ripped out of me by NS people whom have give it the silly 'You should never sell your vinyl' line.

If jocks and influential people on this scene felt like us Gamma types, they would never sell/get rid of stuff...but they do, to get on, stay relevant whatever - and that is okay, it seems.

But is Sam's/whoever it maybe's Dad REALLY bigger than mine?

Any clearer?

[Barry]

Oh, stop it off.

Again, my question has asked for an adult response and not attained it.

I sit and read on here about dj's being allowed a 'hotbox' allowance for eg - it seems that it is an accepted practise...by normal punters/collectors/NS people....if you are a dj that is.

I have parted with records - ONLY - when I have been financially F*cked...and it's broke my heart, and had the asre ripped out of me by NS people whom have give it the silly 'You should never sell your vinyl' line.

If jocks and influential people on this scene felt like us Gamma types, they would never sell/get rid of stuff...but they do, to get on, stay relevant whatever - and that is okay, it seems.

But is Sam's/whoever it maybe's Dad REALLY bigger than mine?

Any clearer?

Obviously it is nothing to do with money.

When have you ever weighed up what you a Montclairs issue would cost you when you and the missus have gone doing the weekly big shop, - you haven't.

Just like cocaine and all the other drugs, money don't enter into the equation.

[Guest dundeedavie]

I've always wondered ...why do people collect ? What i mean is unless you're buying for playing out why collect records.

Of course i realise when a lot of you were younger vinyl was the only option if you wanted to own your own copy but not today and how many great tunes are in collections gathering dust and therefore removing them from the market where dj's could pick them up and give pleasure to many as opposed to one

[pikeys dog]

I collect because it's a relatively harmless outlet for my compulsive side.

Otherwise I'd probably end up taking a hunting rifle down to Meadowhall and taking pot shots at Happy Shoppers.

[Guest dundeedavie]

I collect because it's a relatively harmless outlet for my compulsive side.

Otherwise I'd probably end up taking a hunting rifle down to Meadowhall and taking pot shots at Happy Shoppers.

We'll put that down to therapy then joe lol

[Spacehopper]

Oh, stop it off.

Again, my question has asked for an adult response and not attained it.

I sit and read on here about dj's being allowed a 'hotbox' allowance for eg - it seems that it is an accepted practise...by normal punters/collectors/NS people....if you are a dj that is.

I have parted with records - ONLY - when I have been financially F*cked...and it's broke my heart, and had the asre ripped out of me by NS people whom have give it the silly 'You should never sell your vinyl' line.

If jocks and influential people on this scene felt like us Gamma types, they would never sell/get rid of stuff...but they do, to get on, stay relevant whatever - and that is okay, it seems.

But is Sam's/whoever it maybe's Dad REALLY bigger than mine?

Any clearer?

Why was that not an adult response ?...i wasnt boasting,just explaining to those that dont know me how ive been obsessed with vinyl almost all my life...most of my presents as a kid were records and i have always treasured my collection however big or whatever the value....

[Guest Pointman]

For me, I imagine it's a little odder than most. I'm one of only a handful at best of soul 45 collectors in Houston. And I'm definitely the only one in town running a regular soul event. Sad as this may sound in either context, I could proverbably wave my dick all night and only a few at best might take note. So whenever there's someone around that I can actually talk about soul 45s with and happens to understand that universal feeling of how excited you were when you finally found that rare as hen's teeth 45 you've been after, well it's just nice to be able to talk about it.

[pikeys dog]

We'll put that down to therapy then joe lol

Yes,

I suffer from a very extreme case of mild autism (aka masculinity).

Gathering little bits of black plastic is much more socially acceptable than shouting '36!' when someone drops the contents of their matchbox on the deck.

[Geordiejohnson]

Yes,

I suffer from a very extreme case of mild autism (aka masculinity).

Gathering little bits of black plastic is much more socially acceptable than shouting '36!' when someone drops the contents of their matchbox on the deck.

LOL joe ive read about six posts youve done flo ballard etc ive been peeing myself..i hope your defo coming to the friendship i need a good dose of your humour

Geeooordie

[arnie j]

Yes,

I suffer from a very extreme case of mild autism (aka masculinity).

Gathering little bits of black plastic is much more socially acceptable than shouting '36!' when someone drops the contents of their matchbox on the deck.

hi pikeys dog, may i ask u if u are diagnosed with mild autism please ? if u arent then why make ignorant comments like this on a open forum ? as a parent of a child with autism i find your stereo type comment offensive, if u are diagnosed with mild autism then i apologise for this reply

[Mark Bicknell]

I'm glad to say I got off the 'must have' the big ticket merry-go-round ages ago, I simply buy and collect records which float my boat be they cheap as chips little bits and bobs or sometimes the more exspensive, buying records to simply DJ with or impress others in my book is a nonsense and a pointless exercise as often there is always someone there to over shadow your efforts, collecting records is a very personal thing and it would be good if sometimes we could actually express ourselves totally when DJ'ing by playing a non restricted type spot rather than the often play safe method as ever playing a solid hour of in your face big money records can become a little boring.

I'm having more fun now than ever before swapping, buying, selling etc. selling to buy seems to be what most of us have to do in order to keep the collecting bug going which I find easier to do now than a few years ago, if you can overcome the emotional attatchment to certain records then this helps big time, I'm often of the opinion if someone else can get pleasure and enjoyment from a record I own then there is no problem in selling it, however there will always be certain records no matter how hard you try you can never let them go.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

PS, waiting for the postman to arrive with several small packages.....collecting don't you just love it?

[Guest vinylvixen]

Yeah, I realised that kinda didn't apply to the ladies in the strictest sense - mind you, it's not usually them who jump all over sales/wants threads...

LOL....JB, we keep our powder dry - do you really think that us laydeez would show you what we're stalking by making our intentions known on Sales/Wants Far too clever for that We're quietly squirrelling stuff away at bargain basement prices whilst you lot are waving your demos at each other What's the point of collecting....having a little bit of vinyl that you can play again and again to make yourself happy Happy apendage waggling Jo x

[Guest mobbsy]

I'm glad to say I got off the 'must have' the big ticket merry-go-round ages ago, I simply buy and collect records which float my boat be they cheap as chips little bits and bobs or sometimes the more exspensive, buying records to simply DJ with or impress others in my book is a nonsense and a pointless exercise as often there is always someone there to over shadow your efforts, collecting records is a very personal thing and it would be good if sometimes we could actually express ourselves totally when DJ'ing by playing a non restricted type spot rather than the often play safe method as ever playing a solid hour of in your face big money records can become a little boring.

I'm having more fun now than ever before swapping, buying, selling etc. selling to buy seems to be what most of us have to do in order to keep the collecting bug going which I find easier to do now than a few years ago, if you can overcome the emotional attatchment to certain records then this helps big time, I'm often of the opinion if someone else can get pleasure and enjoyment from a record I own then there is no problem in selling it, however there will always be certain records no matter how hard you try you can never let them go.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

PS, waiting for the postman to arrive with several small packages.....collecting don't you just love it?

[Guest mobbsy]

I'm glad to say I got off the 'must have' the big ticket merry-go-round ages ago, I simply buy and collect records which float my boat be they cheap as chips little bits and bobs or sometimes the more exspensive, buying records to simply DJ with or impress others in my book is a nonsense and a pointless exercise as often there is always someone there to over shadow your efforts, collecting records is a very personal thing and it would be good if sometimes we could actually express ourselves totally when DJ'ing by playing a non restricted type spot rather than the often play safe method as ever playing a solid hour of in your face big money records can become a little boring.

I'm having more fun now than ever before swapping, buying, selling etc. selling to buy seems to be what most of us have to do in order to keep the collecting bug going which I find easier to do now than a few years ago, if you can overcome the emotional attatchment to certain records then this helps big time, I'm often of the opinion if someone else can get pleasure and enjoyment from a record I own then there is no problem in selling it, however there will always be certain records no matter how hard you try you can never let them go.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

PS, waiting for the postman to arrive with several small packages.....collecting don't you just love it?

Well said , that man

[Barry]

I'm glad to say I got off the 'must have' the big ticket merry-go-round ages ago, I simply buy and collect records which float my boat be they cheap as chips little bits and bobs or sometimes the more exspensive, buying records to simply DJ with or impress others in my book is a nonsense and a pointless exercise as often there is always someone there to over shadow your efforts, collecting records is a very personal thing and it would be good if sometimes we could actually express ourselves totally when DJ'ing by playing a non restricted type spot rather than the often play safe method as ever playing a solid hour of in your face big money records can become a little boring.

I'm having more fun now than ever before swapping, buying, selling etc. selling to buy seems to be what most of us have to do in order to keep the collecting bug going which I find easier to do now than a few years ago, if you can overcome the emotional attatchment to certain records then this helps big time, I'm often of the opinion if someone else can get pleasure and enjoyment from a record I own then there is no problem in selling it, however there will always be certain records no matter how hard you try you can never let them go.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

PS, waiting for the postman to arrive with several small packages.....collecting don't you just love it?

I'm sure the majority of grounded 'listeners' think that way Mark, and as your response implies, you do too.

But your response has little to do with my question.

I buy ten bob records all day, so my question - if I would have wished to talk about myself that is - could have been "How good am I for buying ten bob records?".

It wasn't.

I would hope you would re read the question and possibly respond in a manner deserved of the question.

I'm not being an arse, but this board should be re-named 'Chinese Whispers' as it's unbelievable how convoluted certain answers become the further down the board they are.

Edited May 30, 2008 by Barry