here is one to stir things up a bit,

who else thinks that all this interest in funk/northern is gonna be a problem for the ''soul scene'' in 5 years time ?

I mean,are we not just recycling another scenes music and trying to make it our own ?

if I want to hear funk records I would go to a funk night...........I go to soul venues to hear soul records,

not saying its all bad,just that I see we are starting to lose the plot a bit in order to try and play something different when we have not exhausted all the play time of soul records yet,and it can only get worse.

just my opinion of course..........but my mates agreed with me on saturday

Don't know if anyone else is up for it but I was thinking about this the other day , do you remember a prog called Juke box jury ? doubt it , you are all far too young. Anyway it went like this a tune is played and a panel of judges gave it marks out of five ... is it a hit or a miss?

Now here is the idea why dont we use renfosoul in just that way ...put up some funk tracks and have some member participation as to how the sound moves them...a voting system

I am up for devoting some time in being a panel member if someone would like to play and educate me.

As a foot note the funky sisters track would be a miss for me , that doesn't push my buttons at all....sorry

Don't know if anyone else is up for it but I was thinking about this the other day , do you remember a prog called Juke box jury ? doubt it , you are all far too young. Anyway it went like this a tune is played and a panel of judges gave it marks out of five ... is it a hit or a miss?

Now here is the idea why dont we use renfosoul in just that way ...put up some funk tracks and have some member participation as to how the sound moves them...a voting system

I am up for devoting some time in being a panel member if someone would like to play and educate me.

As a foot note the funky sisters track would be a miss for me , that doesn't push my buttons at all....sorry

I remember it Carms wouldn't want the responsibility of being a panel member though, it'll end in tears, I can almost taste the carnage..........

Don't know if anyone else is up for it but I was thinking about this the other day , do you remember a prog called Juke box jury ? doubt it , you are all far too young. Anyway it went like this a tune is played and a panel of judges gave it marks out of five ... is it a hit or a miss?

Now here is the idea why dont we use renfosoul in just that way ...put up some funk tracks and have some member participation as to how the sound moves them...a voting system

I am up for devoting some time in being a panel member if someone would like to play and educate me.

As a foot note the funky sisters track would be a miss for me , that doesn't push my buttons at all....sorry

As Hippo so rightly put it. At the time it filled dancefloors.

As for jukebox jury. They relaunched the show in the 80s with Mike Reid. A brilliant epsisode featured - Sidney Youngblood - If Only I Could.

Roland Rivron commented that the video was only made so deaf people could hate the record too

Sidney was the special gues. he refused to shake Rivron's hand.

I cant see it having been mentioned yet. But around the millenium the Exits - You Gotta Have Money took the dancefloors by storm. Thats pretty funky to my lugs. (Although I much prefer Under The Strretlamp)

God forbid, I hope not. Classic examples of now well-established and sucessfully crossed over funky Soul tunes. At least on the continent incl. Germany. IMO.

Theres loads of other tunes though I for example love but that I would never dare to think of playing out at a Rare Soul event as indeed they are too "hard" classic deep funk sides. Think King Roosevelt, Larry Ellis and such..

well both tunes were played for many years on other scenes before they gained acceptance at soul nights marc as i'm sure you know so nothing wrong with calling them 'deep funk' coz they are/were/always will be...but thats exactly the point, many forget the term 'deep funk' was originally only coined as a name for keb's night in jojo's and if you look at his compilations of the same name you will find they covered a wide spectrum of funky sounds from 60's boogaloo to 70's wah wah funk to late 70's modern disco stuff like family of eve....so in the same way that the term northern soul covers everything from white girly pop to stompers to crossover then its no wonder the words 'deep funk' confuse (scares?) people so much because in reality its as diverse a description as northern itself

Edited February 24, 201114 yr by wrighty

well both tunes were played for many years on other scenes before they gained acceptance at soul nights marc as i'm sure you know so nothing wrong with calling them 'deep funk' coz they are/were/always will be...but thats exactly the point, many forget the term 'deep funk' was originally only coined as a name for keb's night in jojo's and if you look at his compilations of the same name you will find they covered a wide spectrum of funky sounds from 60's boogaloo to 70's wah wah funk to late 70's modern disco stuff like family of eve....so in the same way that the term northern soul covers everything from white girly pop to stompers to crossover then its no wonder the words 'deep funk' confuse (scares?) people so much because in reality its as diverse a description as northern itself

absoluetly rigth, thats why I used the wording "sucessfully crossed over to the Rare Soul scene". In general I agree with 100 % of what you say with your statement. Although in Germany Deep Funk indeed was / is more a tag for the real hard hitting kinda end of the 6ts Funk tunes such as I named in my initial posting. Pretty much responsible for this were people like dj soulpusher and others over here start of the 2000 years. So it was indeed this what I was having in mind when I added my small piece of opinion

Edited February 24, 201114 yr by Marc Forrest

What about crossover northern funk like this one by the Three Smoking Guns - Revenge ...Die

No this one doesn't do it for me either , sorry that would be a miss

Hits for me would be the following this is the kind of groove I like when it comes to funk and these are the one's that have corrupted me

Everything gonna be alright - I forget who sings it ?

You put a wall between us - Koffi

There was a Time - The Daps

Let a woman be a woman and a man be a man - Dyke &the Blazers

I know you got soul - Bobby Byrd

Step it up - Bamboos

What do i have to do - Marva Whitney

Kissin my Love - Spanky Wilson

Better things to do - Sharon Jones & the Dap Kings

What about crossover northern funk like this one by the Three Smoking Guns - Revenge ...Die

No this one doesn't do it for me either , sorry that would be a miss

Hits for me would be the following this is the kind of groove I like when it comes to funk and these are the one's that have corrupted me

Everything gonna be alright - I forget who sings it ?

You put a wall between us - Koffi

There was a Time - The Daps

Let a woman be a woman and a man be a man - Dyke &the Blazers

I know you got soul - Bobby Byrd

Step it up - Bamboos

What do i have to do - Marva Whitney

Kissin my Love - Spanky Wilson

Better things to do - Sharon Jones & the Dap Kings

What that list tells me is that Carms has an open view to black music and obviously likes quality. Some of those records have been long-established U.S. ghetto breakbeats and many wouldn't have been out-of-place at London's Rare-Groove clubs in the mid 80's. A few of 'em are some of Hip-Hop's most-sampled records - here's a couple of examples:-

Bobby Byrd - "I Know You Got Soul" People Records

Sampled by:-

A Tribe Called Quest's "Money Maker"

CEO's "Hit Me with the Beat"

Compton's Most Wanted's "The Final Chapter"

Cool C's "The Glamorous Life"

CPO's "The Movement"

DJ Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince's "You Got It (Donut)"

Double XX Posse's "Executive Class"

Dream Warriors's "Face in the Basin"

Eric B and Rakim's "I Know You Got Soul"

Everlast's "I Got the Knack"

Ice Cube's "Jackin' for Beats"

KMD's "Hard Wit No Hoe"

Kool G Rap's "It's a Demo"

Kool Moe Dee's "Rise 'N' Shine"

Kwame's "Keep on Doin' (What You're Doin' Baby)"

Martine Girault's "Revival"

MC Ren's "Kizz My Black A-z"

Movement Ex's "United Snakes of America"

Original Flavor's "Give 'em Some Wrek"

Professor Griff's "Pawns in the Game"

Public Enemy's "Cold Lampin' with Flavor"

Public Enemy's "Fight the Power"

Public Enemy's "Party for Your Right to Fight"

Rappin is Fundamental's "Whenever You Need an MC"

Roxanne ft Chubb Rock's "Gear"

Salt-N-Pepa's "A Salt with Deadly Pepa"

She Rocker's "Give it a Rest"

Special Ed's "Come On, Let's Move"

Ugly Duckling's "Everybody C'mon"

Wee Papa Girls's "You've Got the Beat"

* "I'm Not to Blame"

Jay-Z's "You Don't Know"

Dyke & The Blazer's "Let A Woman Be A Woman" Original Sound Records

3XDope's "From Da Giddy Up"

Above the Law's "Menace to Society"

Beck's "Jack-Ass"

Digital Underground's "No Nose Job"

Jaz's "Ease up Jaz"

Juvenile Delinquintz's "Juvenile Delinquintz"

Kid 'N Play's "Damn That DJ"

King T's "Diss You"

Leaders of the New School's "Case of the P.T.A."

Michael Jackson's "Jam"

Monie Love's "Let a Woman Be a Woman"

Run-DMC's "Faces"

Stetsasonic's "Sally"

Tupac's "If My Homey Calls"

X-Clan's "Rhythm of God"

I like many different types of music depending on what mood I'm in. But when I want to listen to Northern Soul I kinda want to hear a Northern beat with 4/4 drums 'cos that's what I consider to be Northern Soul.

However, on those nights when I'm in a completely different mood, I might want to hear some great breakbeats, some rare-grooves, some funky syncopated basslines and some downright nasty funk and if that's the case, I'll hit a Funk/Rare Groove night.

So maybe the lines are getting blurred about what exactly constitutes the term known as Northern Soul these days? And does it matter anymore?

Some of the 'Funky Northern' things I'm hearing don't sound like Northern Soul to me at all. Fast Funk definitely. Northern Soul, absolutely not. Major Williams' "Girl Don't Leave Me" is a brilliant slab of catchy fast funk but I wouldn't call it Northern in the same way that I wouldn't call Wally Coco's "Message To Society" or King Sporty's "Music Maker" Northern either.

But I'm 55 years old. Am I being pedantic about semantics?

Ian D

Edited February 24, 201114 yr by Ian Dewhirst

definition of Funk from wikipedia.......

See, that's the problem with Wikipedia. It once had a really sensible description that acknowledged that no two people could agree upon what 'funk' actually was, then along came some berk who actually thought he had the answer, he was right and everyone else was wrong.

To put it another way I disagree with almost everything that description involves. Here's the phrase that sums it all up for me "Funk music was a major influence on the development of disco music and afrobeat". What a bunch of cobblers. The Afrobeat reference is preposterous, and to my way of thinking even the disco theory is a bit cobblers.

May The Good Lord save us from pigeon-holers. And if He won't do it we should shoot them ourselves.

...and I'm usually so reasonable...

That Mystics track is da bomb - where who and how much?

I hate that record, and whether it's funk or not it's no way near as good as this...

Scuse me.. I'm off to cream my pants

Edited February 24, 201114 yr by FunKPunK

Scores so far on the Funk Punk compilation . Be great to have the proper titles . I really enjoyed the session so far , not all of them pulled my chain but a quite a few did ., and I found it thrilling exciting and fresh .

I will put more time at some point and listen to the rest and thank you very much for the contribution.

Track 1 = My turn Now

This gets top marks for me I love it and would happily dance to it HIT

Track 2 – Good on the ear but too fast for me to keep up with, I would imagine if fuelled you could really feel this one perhaps a nighter tune? 3/5

Track 3 = Try me

Great female vocal and yes this scores high for me a great groove that is easy on the ear 4/5

Track 4 = Doing the long John

Wow love that intro and it sounds so saaaaaaaassy Yeah I could dance to this 5/5 HITto me this soooooooul , I WANT ONE ! 5/5

Track 5 = Holy Moses

Some nice pipe work in the intro again very soulful to my ear , not what I would tag as funky , very mellow a nice chiller but then it gets funky towards the end 4/5 HIT

Track 6 – What can you do when you loose the one you love ( about 8 mins in )I love this an immediate Wower for me I would love one of these , I WANT ONE how much ? again to my ears this is SOUL 5/5

Track 7 – Indian road man ?

Not sure about this a very strong vocal but its a little deep for me right now, perhaps a grower , not sure one I would classify as colourfully swirly = MISS

Track 8 – I Just Can't wait any longer Lavern Baker isn't it ?

Lol one I know , bet the crowd like this one J

Track 9 – I'm a good woman

One we all know 5/5 fantastic sound Barbara delivers every time and you never tire of hearing her agony in letting this guy go cause she deserves much better. 5/5

Track 10 – I'm the man

Getting back onto the back foot , this is so James Browny this one yeah I like it makes me want to shake like a jelly roll lol and I love that brass when its on its way in. 4/5

Track 11 – Don't push me away

No this one doesn't do it for me sorry it's a MISS

Track 12 – Funky Music

No again this is too far across the line for me reminds me of Edwin Stars War, which I never did like sorry MISS

Runtime stop at 28.04 need to get ready for work !

I have jumped over the remaining tracks and it gets better really looking forward to giving the latter part of the set with a few beers later .

Edited February 25, 201114 yr by Carms

See, that's the problem with Wikipedia. It once had a really sensible description that acknowledged that no two people could agree upon what 'funk' actually was, then along came some berk who actually thought he had the answer, he was right and everyone else was wrong.

Don't agree with most of it myself. WP getting like the red tops, Sun etc.

good, isnt it ? was a steady play at the hip city berlin a few years ago...currently a few on ebay...normally around 40 UKP

NB wanted to quote and answer funkpunks question re mytsics / teako...too early...need another coffee !

Edited February 25, 201114 yr by Marc Forrest

Thanks Carms - top man

Here's the listing for my stuff, Trev is still to return his list.

My Turn Now - Gail Anderson - EARLY BIRD

Thought Of Losing Your Love - The Vanguards - LAMP

Try Me and See - Ruth Brown

The Long John - Jarvis Jackson - SIMS

Holy Moses - FORCE - STREAKER

what can you do - Mill Evans

Indian Rope Man - Julie Driscoll

Can't Wait Any Longer - Big Maybelle - ROJAC

I'm A Good Woman - Barbara Lynn - TRIBE

I'm Your Man -

Pain - Nova's Nine - ABC

at 1:08ish

Its Your Thing - Senor Soul - WHIZZ

Psychedelic Soul part 1 - El Pooks - ORIVIOUS

Psychedelic Soul part 2 - El Pooks - ORIVIOUS

Solid Funk - Flame and the Sons of Darkness - P&P

PS Senor Soul are WAR - good ears!!!

Scores so far on the Funk Punk compilation . Be great to have the proper titles . I really enjoyed the session so far , not all of them pulled my chain but a quite a few did ., and I found it thrilling exciting and fresh .

I will put more time at some point and listen to the rest and thank you very much for the contribution.

Track 1 = My turn Now

This gets top marks for me I love it and would happily dance to it HIT

Track 2 - Good on the ear but too fast for me to keep up with, I would imagine if fuelled you could really feel this one perhaps a nighter tune? 3/5

Track 3 = Try me

Great female vocal and yes this scores high for me a great groove that is easy on the ear 4/5

Track 4 = Doing the long John

Wow love that intro and it sounds so saaaaaaaassy Yeah I could dance to this 5/5 HITto me this soooooooul , I WANT ONE ! 5/5

Track 5 = Holy Moses

Some nice pipe work in the intro again very soulful to my ear , not what I would tag as funky , very mellow a nice chiller but then it gets funky towards the end 4/5 HIT

Track 6 - What can you do when you loose the one you love ( about 8 mins in )I love this an immediate Wower for me I would love one of these , I WANT ONE how much ? again to my ears this is SOUL 5/5

Track 7 - Indian road man ?

Not sure about this a very strong vocal but its a little deep for me right now, perhaps a grower , not sure one I would classify as colourfully swirly = MISS

Track 8 - I Just Can't wait any longer Lavern Baker isn't it ?

Lol one I know , bet the crowd like this one J

Track 9 - I'm a good woman

One we all know 5/5 fantastic sound Barbara delivers every time and you never tire of hearing her agony in letting this guy go cause she deserves much better. 5/5

Track 10 - I'm the man

Getting back onto the back foot , this is so James Browny this one yeah I like it makes me want to shake like a jelly roll lol and I love that brass when its on its way in. 4/5

Track 11 - Don't push me away

No this one doesn't do it for me sorry it's a MISS

Track 12 - Funky Music

No again this is too far across the line for me reminds me of Edwin Stars War, which I never did like sorry MISS

Runtime stop at 28.04 need to get ready for work !

I have jumped over the remaining tracks and it gets better really looking forward to giving the latter part of the set with a few beers later .

Thanks Carms - top man

I am a clean up woman mate not a bloke names Carmen short for Carms , nice to meet you thanks for the listings

Ahem sorry Carmen - top woman

francis tippin is a fantastic tune.i could just about tap me feet in time to the second one. smilin all the time because mostly i cant...

Thanks Carms - top man

I am a clean up woman mate not a bloke names Carmen short for Carms , nice to meet you thanks for the listings

Thanks Carms - top man

I am a clean up woman mate not a bloke names Carmen short for Carms , nice to meet you thanks for the listings

Ahem sorry Carmen - top woman

No probs it happens all the time they even call me dude at work now .... one of the boys now

OH ....I left Deloras Ealy off my list , I've been looking . Now that is one hell of a sound that I would Iove to own best funky edge soul I have heard to date.......... blows everything out of the water IMHO nothing else has come close for me . But I am willing to keep being receptive so keep them coming please.

I think I may have threw you with my with a few beers later remark GUINESS !

Edited February 25, 201114 yr by Carms

Thanks Carms - top man

I am a clean up woman mate not a bloke names Carmen short for Carms , nice to meet you thanks for the listings

Hi Carms .....was wondering how long before you got that sorted

LOL I was wondering myself...think he wanted to initially thank me for the info/valuation on the mystics but thought I was Carms..Well, having had the wonderful opportunity to have deeayed together with Carms around 2001 I can fully assure we are not..I repeat..WE ARE NOT...the same person. It is two persons, one man the other female. Definietly.

i've been doing a night in the states fro a decade...i play mostly out and out "deep" funk, and my partner plays out and out "northern" soul. we've had great success in this. hell, i've been known to include r&b, garage, ethiopian funk, rockabilly. the mix seems to be very welcome with the dancers. there is one lad who comes every month, dresses in the Mod style, and he walks off the dancefloor everytime i get up to spin! he hates funk, can't figure out how to make his stiff body move to it, poor fella!!!

i love all of these different sounds. a night of all northern or all funk is a nightmare to me.

Thanks Carms - top man

PS Funkpunk, couldn't get your tunes to play, for some reason, would really like to give them a listen, any ideas?

Here's a direct link to the podcast page hope this helps, the one on the Refosoul page should work but not linking within the posts for some reason...

https://postbocks.com/uploads/rialto_2

FunKPunK

Here's a direct link to the podcast page hope this helps, the one on the Refosoul page should work but not linking within the posts for some reason...

https://postbocks.com/uploads/rialto_2

FunKPunK

thanks

Winnie (Winston) I'm a man

Its been a part of the scene since it began in one form or another. I think the fear and upset is down to a mis understanding of the term 'funk'. People seem to think it means James Brown or Bootsy Collins, but its a wide genre.,

Frankie Crocker, the Crow and many other long term staples of the scene can be called funk.

I think its time to let go of the tiny boxes and just dance to good, black, soulful music.

I have noticed recently that a lot of dealers have started calling all sorts of shite 'funk' , as they see it as a new selling route.

Also a lot of djs being advertised as 'funk/soul/ when they havent got a tune in their box of any quality that would fall into a decent description of the genre (with regards to the Northen scene).

The recycled music angle is also a bit of a curve ball, because a lot of the tunes, though known by funk collectors, were not broken by them on any scene and the funk scene is very small in the uk.

A lot of us have been collecting soulful funk since the 70s, so its not a new departure, just the time to be playing good music to people who are growing tired of the same 500 tunes that have graced the decks non stop for 30 years.

Basically you know a good tune when you hear it or your feet feel like moving to it and there is good and shite in all genres and sub genres embraced by the scene.

Its been a part of the scene since it began in one form or another. I think the fear and upset is down to a mis understanding of the term 'funk'. People seem to think it means James Brown or Bootsy Collins, but its a wide genre.,

Frankie Crocker, the Crow and many other long term staples of the scene can be called funk.

I think its time to let go of the tiny boxes and just dance to good, black, soulful music.

I have noticed recently that a lot of dealers have started calling all sorts of shite 'funk' , as they see it as a new selling route.

Also a lot of djs being advertised as 'funk/soul/ when they havent got a tune in their box of any quality that would fall into a decent description of the genre (with regards to the Northen scene).

The recycled music angle is also a bit of a curve ball, because a lot of the tunes, though known by funk collectors, were not broken by them on any scene and the funk scene is very small in the uk.

A lot of us have been collecting soulful funk since the 70s, so its not a new departure, just the time to be playing good music to people who are growing tired of the same 500 tunes that have graced the decks non stop for 30 years.

Basically you know a good tune when you hear it or your feet feel like moving to it and there is good and shite in all genres and sub genres embraced by the scene.

Very well put Paul

Time to put the " FUNK FEAR" to bed eh

Get sick of saying this but hey ho ...one of the top funk and northern sounds thats timeless because it ticks all the boxes ......and it's been around for a long time!

TOWANDA BARNES -YOU DON'T MEAN IT !

A few good points there Paul - as previously mentioned I have fallen victim to a "soul" crowd that were only looking for those top 500 - nay Top 20 - played to death tunes that they no doubt listen to in the car every day of their lives. I try to play what I think are good tunes and let 'em loose on the public to gauge the reaction - be in northern, RnB soul or funkier stuff I like to bring a shit load of new discoveries every month. But I do still throw on the Chandlers and Ronnie Forte cause I like 'em loud... Hey its a young 20s/30s crowd they haven't heard them as much

FunKPunK

Its been a part of the scene since it began in one form or another. I think the fear and upset is down to a mis understanding of the term 'funk'. People seem to think it means James Brown or Bootsy Collins, but its a wide genre.,

Frankie Crocker, the Crow and many other long term staples of the scene can be called funk.

I think its time to let go of the tiny boxes and just dance to good, black, soulful music.

I have noticed recently that a lot of dealers have started calling all sorts of shite 'funk' , as they see it as a new selling route.

Also a lot of djs being advertised as 'funk/soul/ when they havent got a tune in their box of any quality that would fall into a decent description of the genre (with regards to the Northen scene).

The recycled music angle is also a bit of a curve ball, because a lot of the tunes, though known by funk collectors, were not broken by them on any scene and the funk scene is very small in the uk.

A lot of us have been collecting soulful funk since the 70s, so its not a new departure, just the time to be playing good music to people who are growing tired of the same 500 tunes that have graced the decks non stop for 30 years.

Basically you know a good tune when you hear it or your feet feel like moving to it and there is good and shite in all genres and sub genres embraced by the scene.

Get sick of saying this but hey ho ...one of the top funk and northern sounds thats timeless because it ticks all the boxes ......and it's been around for a long time!

TOWANDA BARNES -YOU DON'T MEAN IT !

Weird. I don't see that as Funk at all. If I played Towanda Barnes to any serious Funk collectors claiming it was Funk they'd think I was nuts. It's as Northern as they come for me.

But I'd call "Ton Of Dynamite" Northern Funk.

Ian D

here's a quote

"only people who don't know what something is would put a label on it"

fridays getting to me, am losing it on here today

Edited February 25, 201114 yr by mike

Weird. I don't see that as Funk at all. If I played Towanda Barnes to any serious Funk collectors claiming it was Funk they'd think I was nuts. It's as Northern as they come for me.

But I'd call "Ton Of Dynamite" Northern Funk.

Ian D

Thats because you 1st heard it as a "Northern soul" record ...... and have accepted it as that without question

The simple fact is ,if we didnt have the boffins amongst us analyzing everything and trying to pigeon hole every record ,we would'nt be having this pointless debate .

Instead we would be at a venue, taking in tunes that floated our boat by either tapping our feet to the beat ,or on the floor strutting our stuff!

Tyring to take myself back to my youth when i 1st got into " Northern soul" and i don't ever recall anyone saying " what's this then?" is it crossover or modern .. is it latin ,doo wop or is it a chin stroker ?

Anyway what is " Northern soul" Ian .....as far as im aware nobody ever made a record and said "this is northern soul" or am i wrong??

My personal opinion is ,people like Levine et al ...went in search of things that they thought would be suitable for the scene, that had been quoined "Northern soul" ,that was /is predominantly a dance scene ...records that would be accepted by the "Northern " crowd .

Some of em arent even soul records but they do the job .

My conclusion is that there are two soul scenes going on today ......the one where people go to venue's and have fun ,and the one where people sit at home in front of a pc and spend most of their time trying to make sense of it all ..... the real "chin strokers":lol:

Me ..im so looking forward to Lifeline tomorrow night ......hope Andys gonna play Wally Coco and a few other funky things

Simple one man's Funk is another man's junk, any old iron, any old iron, that was one weren't it. Or was that punk who really cares eh

ls the difference between Funk and Soul is that Soul Music is all 'Sweetness And Light' and with Funk everybody is in a bit of a bad mood..

In a word ...No.

Im sure I have a Grapevine album called "This Is Northern Soul" and they widnae lie would they?

Could you tell me what it is then??

Again..in a word..No. That's not the point of the thread.

To go back to the original issue of the thread - I can't see it being a problem for the soul scene in 5 years time or whatever. Whatever gives the whole scene longevity and brings new faces in then whatever works ...works..

The die hard northern crowd I guess will never be won over with across the board nights nor would the folk who don't like the Wigan / top 500 (for example) era northern be won over at a top 500 wigan oldies night.

Is it just down to promotion and awareness of what you'd expect to hear at a night? Like Nev said, he's looking forward to Lifeline and expecting to hear some funky soul being spun by leading dj's. And there'll be just as many folk going to a pure oldies night and enjoying it just as much as Nev will enjoy Lifeline.

There's plenty of different nights available to all soul fans whatever your expectations are.. We don't own the music. The music owns us.

Could you tell me what it is then??

Why does there have to be a difference, if someone says 'ton of dynamite' or 'manifesto' is funk, do we have to re-evaluate whether we like it or should dance to it? Just read a post by Nev, basically ''what floats your boat'' is exactly that, why does anyone need it diagnosed. I don't particularly like 'voodoo working' I find it neither soulful or northern 50 pro posts from the most eminent Soul sourcers aren't going to change that view, because what they think would have no more relevance than what I think, to me. Knowledge doesnt' necessarily equate to taste, let your own ears do the deciding

Weird. I don't see that as Funk at all. If I played Towanda Barnes to any serious Funk collectors claiming it was Funk they'd think I was nuts. It's as Northern as they come for me.

But I'd call "Ton Of Dynamite" Northern Funk.

Ian D

How's about James Fountain - "7 day lover",Ian?..N.Funk?

Ton of Dynamite also has Latin blood coursing through its veins, in case anyone hadn't noticed, same goes for Ellipsis.

I'd love to see the reaction if Lynn Collins, Marva Whitney and Laura Lee were told they weren't really Soul singers.

I have noticed recently that a lot of dealers have started calling all sorts of shite 'funk' , as they see it as a new selling route.

Basically you know a good tune when you hear it or your feet feel like moving to it and there is good and shite in all genres and sub genres embraced by the scene.

basically agree with all you say Paul.

Dealers have just about taken what they can from Crossover, taken it far beyond what it originally meant, maybe Funk is their new Crossover, hey if it helps sell a record.....

Indeed... The funky northern lable is showing on them record boxes now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH5xC5Ok0pY

I FOR ONE WOULD NOT MIND A BIT OF THIS

KEV

Edited February 25, 201114 yr by kevinsoulman

OR THIS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvphF4p_eqI

Just a thought: the famed Top 500 itself veers wildly all over the place in stylistic terms. Even the Top 10 covers the gamut between sweet girlie pop (Judy Street) to the gritty churning southern soul of James Fountain and practically all points in between.

The points raised by Nev, Winnie and others are extremely valid. In the scene's heyday the actual generic identity of a record tended to matter not a jot. If it was played and danced to it became 'Northern Soul'. The period when an unknown Mirwood-style stomper could be found and become popular on a weekly basis lasted maybe two to three years. Ian Levine, Colin Curtis and others are on record as looking for another type of sound because that type of 'typical sound' the scene had thrived on in its early years was becoming harder to turn up, even by the middle of 1974!

I suppose at the back of all of our minds is a cherished ideal of what the perfect Northern Soul record might sound like but the facts seem to suggest that Northern has always been a very broad church indeed in terms of what it can reasonably tolerate in stylistic musical terms.

I've banged on before here about how big a part fashion has always played in all of this. There are flavour of the month records and flavour of the month sounds now, just as there were five, ten, fifteen, twenty, twenty-five years ago. Think of ten to fifteen years ago and the huge upsurge in people collecting and deejaying with the so-called New Breed R&B. That has in the main slipped back out of fashion and been relegated again to side-rooms. The odd 'can't miss' type of record like J.T. Parker will escape from that ghetto, but otherwise uptempo R&B will remain on the sidelines 'til it's next in fashion.

Funk seems to have been a buzzword for the last couple of years but I'm not sure how big it actually is. I've noticed people like Big George get the odd upfront nighter spot but to me that seems to be a reflection on the quality of records he has overall (i.e. lots of great vintage Black American music of all types) rather than an expectation of him playing 45 minute sets of hard funk (however you define that) at a Northern Soul venue.

The problem in any of this is when a currently fashionable sound filters down from those with a genuine feel and ear for that sound to the next tier of deejays. Bandwagon jumpers always miss the point and end up buying and playing crap records. Playing Popcorn classics like Sam Fletcher and Kell Osborne was a master stroke at Stafford (where a lot of the music was actually really fast and manic) but it opened the doors for deejays with less individual flair than Guy H and Dave T to program other less stellar examples of that kind of sound. In addition to lesser quality records the lesser deejay tends to play too much of one particular thing. Entire sets of Popcorn-type soul became a norm and it kind of missed the point of why the things had become such cult records in the first place. That's where the listening experience for the audience becomes diminished.

Is the original poster saying we have already reached that point with the currently popular funk things?

OR THIS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvphF4p_eqI

got the single, still love it !!

Funkiest 'Northern' classed record i've heard at any (northern) soul night/nighter is "cut your motor off" - Black Nasty. not a fan of it though. I also remember George Benson - Supership many yrs ago, but what do we class that as?

IAN

Soul Music,mate!!

Err,pop Webby.

What about Jazz Funk???

Just a thought

dont think anyone's mentioned dancing yet, I mean most of what are being termed as funky northern you can dance to whilst still retaining a sembalence of the trademark northern footwork, Whist generally things that dont retain a four to the floor, ie lots of james brown influenced sounds are never going to cut it on a northern dancefloor.

James Brown's name always gets dragged up whenever Northern Soul fans profess a dislike of funk or its suitability for the Northern Soul scene. James Brown songs and productions actually lend themselves pretty well at times. 'The Was A Time" was pretty massive at one time wasn't it and if you ask me Gene Chandler's version is actually less suitable for 'northern dancing' than Brown's version, let alone the Dapps or Dee Felice Trio versions, also produced by James Brown. I understand Karl Heard and others have also recently had success with "Funky Horns" by Jay Bush on Vangee, which is more or less another straight rip off of There Was A Time.

Bottom line is that many JB records from the mid 60s onwards were certainly syncopated but were also pretty fast and furious, pace-wise.

I could understand Meters-style funk not being compatible with rare soul rooms, or George Clinton-style funk for that matter, but a lot of JB funk sounds perfectly acceptable to me from an NS perspective: quite a few of Marva Whitney and Vicki Anderson's classic King singles sit right at the apex of funky-soul or whatever you want to call it.

Yarmouth 'JB' Favourite.

People Wake Up And Live!

Sean

OH ....I left Deloras Ealy off my list , I've been looking . Now that is one hell of a sound that I would Iove to own best funky edge soul I have heard to date.......... blows everything out of the water IMHO nothing else has come close for me . But I am willing to keep being receptive so keep them coming please.

How about this one Carms ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7jR4Vd6X6A

Edited February 26, 201114 yr by Lobster Madras

How's about James Fountain - "7 day lover",Ian?..N.Funk?

Funky and on the same label his track " My hair is nappy " has had plays ..