Just trying to get to the bottom of 'The Duck - Willie Hutch'. Was this a cover up of the Richard temple version or vice versa, or did Willie Hutch actually record a version?

I have also been advised that there is a very large tune by Willie Hutch on the 'B' side of 'The Duck' by him? Is this true please?

Jackie Lee made "The Duck", the Willie Hutch "The Duck" is a completely different song.

The flip side is "When Love Runs Out" .

Richard Temple did make "That Beatin' Rhythm" which was a vocal to "Cigarette

Ashes" by Jimmy Conwell.

'The Duck' by Willie Hutch was bootlegged by Simon Soussain as 'Let's do the duck' by Richard Temple.

The Duck was originally found by Simon Soussan in early 1974. He supplied acetates to myself, Russ and Richard at the Casino, probably around February.

On a trip to LA in March(74) I purchased the original from him, but weirdly the B side had been totally sabotaged....unplayable and unreadable!

Post-March, we all knew the identity of The Duck. Later(3-6 months) copies were found on Dunhill with the excellent flip 'Love Runs Out' immediately getting spins.

One conspiracy theory could be, that SS, brimming with confidence, could have pressed up the Richard Temple-Let's DoThe Duck, then had 'Love Runs Out'(Richard Temple lol) ready on the production line.

UK ABC beat him to the 2nd title or maybe he had set his sights on other titles.

Willie's The Duck was huge for a short while, with fond memories of him performing it LIVE at the Togetherness Weekender, Fleetwood several years ago.

What a double sider!

Remember the event well Kev. What a superb weekend and what a superb guy. He was sooooo confused when I asked to take a photo of him in bed wearing his Sexalicious t-shirt (the album he was promoting at the time). Never did print it in Manifesto.

Steve

So the one on 'Stephanye' is actually by Willie Hutch, but renamed 'Richard Temple?

Thanks

Just trying to get to the bottom of 'The Duck - Willie Hutch'. Was this a cover up of the Richard temple version or vice versa, or did Willie Hutch actually record a version?

I have also been advised that there is a very large tune by Willie Hutch on the 'B' side of 'The Duck' by him? Is this true please?

HI ALL...YOUR HAVING A LAUGH SONNY JIM, BOBBY FREEMAN THE DUCK? IS THE ONE TO GET?? DAVE K

Edited August 5, 201114 yr by dthedrug

HI ALL...YOUR HAVING A LAUGH SONNY JIM, BOBBY FREEMAN THE DUCK? IS THE ONE TO GET?? DAVE K

Yeh for the B side.

The Duck was originally found by Simon Soussan in early 1974. He supplied acetates to myself, Russ and Richard at the Casino, probably around February.

On a trip to LA in March(74) I purchased the original from him, but weirdly the B side had been totally sabotaged....unplayable and unreadable!

Post-March, we all knew the identity of The Duck. Later(3-6 months) copies were found on Dunhill with the excellent flip 'Love Runs Out' immediately getting spins.

One conspiracy theory could be, that SS, brimming with confidence, could have pressed up the Richard Temple-Let's DoThe Duck, then had 'Love Runs Out'(Richard Temple lol) ready on the production line.

UK ABC beat him to the 2nd title or maybe he had set his sights on other titles.

Willie's The Duck was huge for a short while, with fond memories of him performing it LIVE at the Togetherness Weekender, Fleetwood several years ago.

What a double sider!

I don't know about UK ABC beating him to it, they didn't release Love Runs Out until 1977, a three year gap!

Prefere " the shotgun and the duck" Jackie Lee

So for once Ian Levine was pipped at the post. I once read that Willie Hutch was a Mecca premier for the LRO side. Obviously not.

I don't know about UK ABC beating him to it, they didn't release Love Runs Out until 1977, a three year gap!

Yep.....agreed. I think Soul Fox and Shalamar got in the way of this one.

Is the Jackie Lee the original ?

I thought I had the duck on a Bon n earl album?

Found this article clears things up a bit fir me

Bob & Earl were an American soul music singing duo in the 1960s, best known for writing and recording the original version of "Harlem Shuffle".

Hide Career

The original duo were Bobby Byrd and Earl Nelson (born Earl Lee Nelson, 8 September 1928, Lake Charles, Louisiana - 12 July 2008, Los Angeles) They had both been members of The Hollywood Flames, a prolific doo-wop group in Los Angeles, California whose major hit was "Buzz Buzz Buzz" in 1958, on which Nelson sang lead.

By 1957, Byrd had started a parallel solo career, writing and recording for contractual reasons as Bobby Day. He wrote and recorded the original version of "Little Bitty Pretty One", and had a hit of his own with "Rockin' Robin" (1958). In 1960, Day/Byrd and Nelson began recording together as Bob & Earl, on the Class record label. However, these releases had relatively little success, and Day/Byrd restarted his solo career.

In 1962, Nelson then recruited a second "Bob", Bobby Relf (January 10, 1937 - November 20, 2007), who also used the stage names of Bobby Garrett and Bobby Valentino. Relf had already led several Los Angeles based acts in his career, including the Laurels, the Upfronts, and Valentino and the Lovers. The latter two groups also featured the then pianist and bass singer, Barry White.

This duo of Relf and Nelson recorded several singles for different labels, before "Harlem Shuffle" in 1963. The song was written by Relf and Nelson, arranged by Barry White,[1][2] and produced by Fred Smith. It was based on a number called "Slauson Shuffletime" (named after a boulevard in Los Angeles) by another Los Angeles singer, Round Robin.[3] When released on the Marc label, "Harlem Shuffle" became a modest hit on the R&B chart. Its vocal interplay directly influenced later duos such as Sam and Dave. However, its main success came as late as 1969, when it was re-released in the UK and became a Top Ten hit there. Reportedly,[4] George Harrison called it his favourite record of all time.

By that time, Nelson had achieved further success as a solo artist under the alias of Jackie Lee, with "The Duck", a hit dance record released in 1965, which reached #14 in the U.S. (Jackie was Nelson's wife's name and Lee his own middle name). When "Harlem Shuffle" became successful on reissue, Nelson and Relf reunited as Bob & Earl to tour. The duo split up for the last time in the early 1970s.

Ps think bobby freeman recorded the swim

And S.W.I.M

Don't know if he did the duck ???

But I will stand corrected

Ktf

Is the Jackie Lee the original ?

The Jackie Lee and Willie Hutch records are two different songs with the same title

Aah haa

My mistake !!

A least I found out more about Jackie Lee aka earl nelson suppose that's what threads are for to lead you into the unknown

Cheers ktf

When "Richard Temple, Let's Do The Duck" was being played, an old aquaintance I was talking to in the Beachcomber said "Its just the same as The Duck" I explained to him that it was a different record completely, although like Jackie Lee, it was celebrating the same dance. He then said, "no, it's the same as The Duck by Willie Hutch". I didn't know what he was on about, until the truth came out. It was definately known by some people, but I can't remember who the friend was. Might have been Pete Lawson, but can't be sure.

Paul

PS, prefer Bobby Freeman "The Duck" to Jackie Lee.

The Duck was originally found by Simon Soussan in early 1974. He supplied acetates to myself, Russ and Richard at the Casino, probably around February.

On a trip to LA in March(74) I purchased the original from him, but weirdly the B side had been totally sabotaged....unplayable and unreadable!

Post-March, we all knew the identity of The Duck. Later(3-6 months) copies were found on Dunhill with the excellent flip 'Love Runs Out' immediately getting spins.

One conspiracy theory could be, that SS, brimming with confidence, could have pressed up the Richard Temple-Let's DoThe Duck, then had 'Love Runs Out'(Richard Temple lol) ready on the production line.

UK ABC beat him to the 2nd title or maybe he had set his sights on other titles.

Willie's The Duck was huge for a short while, with fond memories of him performing it LIVE at the Togetherness Weekender, Fleetwood several years ago.

What a double sider!

I am sure Simon Sousan did release The Duck / Love runs out as by "James Conwell jr." - it was on one of his sales lists claiming it to be an original release - there were other fake "originals"on the list including another vocal version of "cigarette ashes" called "there was a heart" by the Rubies and an instrumental of "girl don't make me wait" - i think i still have the list somewhere

Edited August 6, 201114 yr by Ringleader

I am sure Simon Sousan did release The Duck / Love runs out as by "James Conwell jr." - it was on one of his sales lists claiming it to be an original release - there were other fake "originals"on the list including another vocal version of "cigarette ashes" called "there was a heart" by the Rubies and an instrumental of "girl don't make me wait" - i think i still have the list somewhere

He probably just made the titles and artists up, Love Runs Out definitely never came out as a boot or reissue until ABC released it

I think "the peanut duck" is best.

I am sure Simon Sousan did release The Duck / Love runs out as by "James Conwell jr." - it was on one of his sales lists claiming it to be an original release - there were other fake "originals"on the list including another vocal version of "cigarette ashes" called "there was a heart" by the Rubies and an instrumental of "girl don't make me wait" - i think i still have the list somewhere

I have a vague recollection of that. I have a memory of him turning up at the Mecca with them along with others.

Ian D might remember. Wasn't it Ian who came into the club and twatted him, maybe the same night.

ROD

Ps think bobby freeman recorded the swim

And S.W.I.M

Don't know if he did the duck ???

But I will stand corrected

Ktf

backed by the brill "cross my heart"

My copy is just a plain old Pye issue...not international

Edited August 6, 201114 yr by ken

"twatted him"

I might be fooling myself but i have a memory of seeing a copy of James Conwell - black label with silver lettering - anyone else?

this is from another thread

Edited August 6, 201114 yr by Ringleader

He probably just made the titles and artists up, Love Runs Out definitely never came out as a boot or reissue until ABC released it

Pete

It was booted well before the ABC issue - as James Conwel Jr, both sides with the correct titles and recorded at the right speed (The RT was speeded up) - It was a black label with silver text, can't remember the label name though - there were plenty around in about 1975 or so. Surprisingly scarce now - last copy I had flew out for £30 - that was about 4 years ago, haven't had another since.

Cheers

Mick

Just noticed the post above me by Ringleader, saying the same - 'sorry bout that.

Edited August 6, 201114 yr by Mick Holdsworth

HI ALL.....JUST FOR THE RECORD, HA HA, HERES MY DEMO, IT COME OUT WITH 2 DIFFERENT B SIDES, FOR SOME REASON THIS RECORD NEVER GOT THE PLAYS, AND IT IS STILL A RARE BUT CHEAP BUY, ISSUES ARE ABOUT £20 AS FOR DEMO'S PETE SMITH OR TED WOULD NO THE PRICE. DAVE

Nice one dave

Now is the bobby freeman one the same as the Jackie Lee or willie hutch??

Spike

Nice one dave

Now is the bobby freeman one the same as the Jackie Lee or willie hutch??

Spike

Spike

It's the Jackie Lee version

Shelly

Pete

It was booted well before the ABC issue - as James Conwel Jr, both sides with the correct titles and recorded at the right speed (The RT was speeded up) - It was a black label with silver text, can't remember the label name though - there were plenty around in about 1975 or so. Surprisingly scarce now - last copy I had flew out for £30 - that was about 4 years ago, haven't had another since.

Cheers

Mick

Just noticed the post above me by Ringleader, saying the same - 'sorry bout that.

Hold up my hands and say I did not know that, sorry folks. Am totally astonished that I've never heard of that in 35 years!

Spike

It's the Jackie Lee version

Shelly

Thank you

All this talk about duck has made me hungry

Edited August 7, 201114 yr by spike1

Thank you

All this talk about duck has made me hungry

Obviously weren't out last night then!

Shelly

Nice one dave

Now is the bobby freeman one the same as the Jackie Lee or willie hutch??

Spike

Spike

It's the Jackie Lee version

Shelly

But just to confuse things there a jukebox reissue with Jackie Lee - 'The Duck' on one side and Bobby Freeman - 'C'mon and Swim' on the flip.

Edited August 7, 201114 yr by Godzilla

HI ALL.....JUST FOR THE RECORD, HA HA, HERES MY DEMO, IT COME OUT WITH 2 DIFFERENT B SIDES, FOR SOME REASON THIS RECORD NEVER GOT THE PLAYS, AND IT IS STILL A RARE BUT CHEAP BUY, ISSUES ARE ABOUT £20 AS FOR DEMO'S PETE SMITH OR TED WOULD NO THE PRICE. DAVE

Does it have cross my heart on the other side ?: if so i'll have one for £20 anyone,demo like this though i already got the issue

Out of intrest what happened to Simon Souson heared a few thing's a bit ago but not about music industry now He'd make an intresting interview whether you agreed with His antics or not His contribution to the soul world was a very important one any info ? or contact details ? regards simon ( not soussan ).

Out of intrest what happened to Simon Souson heared a few thing's a bit ago but not about music industry now He'd make an intresting interview whether you agreed with His antics or not His contribution to the soul world was a very important one any info ? or contact details ? regards simon ( not soussan ).

I think the person to ask would be Ian Dewhsrt....Ian

Obviously weren't out last night then!

Shelly

Too right I seldom am!

Learn something new every day!

Must have heard willie hutch/Richard temple versions over the years but Jackie Lee sticks in my mind

Ktf

Hold up my hands and say I did not know that, sorry folks. Am totally astonished that I've never heard of that in 35 years!

You and me both Pete - certainly never seen one down this neck of the woods!

You and me both Pete - certainly never seen one down this neck of the woods!

Not just seen Jerry - I've never heard of it or seen mention of it before yesterday!

For those seeking a talking piece, I've just landed a spare of this rarity!

Can't be many in the UK...if any at all!?

Very nice my son!

OK, can anyone supply a scan of this '75 boot - Mick H reckons there were plenty around, so someone must have one!

Very nice my son!

OK, can anyone supply a scan of this '75 boot - Mick H reckons there were plenty around, so someone must have one!

Yes, I would like to see one again just so I can see what the label is called - maybe Ringleader in post #24 (or SHEFFSOUL) can remember.

Cheers

Mick

I can't scan it but I've still got the copy I bought at the time. It's on Patches.

OK I haven't found a scan but the label was "Patches"

Here's a list from Simon Soussan - July 76

Cheers

Mick

Ha - pipped at the post again !!!

Edited August 9, 201114 yr by Mick Holdsworth

I can't scan it but I've still got the copy I bought at the time. It's on Patches.

You know what, I'm starting to recall something now you've mentioned that label name

You know what, I'm starting to recall something now you've mentioned that label name

...not me though - totally missed that one, you learn something every day!

Gave me a good laugh looking at some of those "originals" on the list as well!

edit. didn't see Mick's post.

Edited August 9, 201114 yr by Benji

Does it have cross my heart on the other side ?: if so I'll have one for £20 anyone,demo like this though i already got the issue

HI ALL.....the B side is 100% "Cross my hart" on the DEMO, STOCK COPIES that have "DEVIL" on the B are only worth half of the copy you have, and the DEMO is only worth a quarter of the price. Some may think that I have got it wrong! Ranking Johnny Boy. But for me it's all about the quality, in my opinion the DUCK is to good SOUL wise to the pop sound of mid 60s west coast bounce soul that James Carmichael & Randy Wood, put out, (in saying that, I Love the MIRWOOD SOUND).

Cross my Hart, has Hit written all over, but our man Mr Freeman who is also known for his preference to Name the new dance type records (POP) that where so common in the 60s Dave Godin had a name for them which has eluded my GREY STUFF, If you have not got this record, and if you don't no it, I can some it up with 1 word SUPERLITIVEDTHEDRUGQUALITYSOULTHATHITSTHESPOTWITHALLITSGOTANDTHESOME! has this been played? back in 72 Mick Smith played it, af the DIVE in Hitchin Hertsm so does scratching BOOM! BOOM!. So I assume it was played at the Birds Nest, Shades and at lonely old farmyard barns in Bedfordshire, if you are a DJ spin it this week, I highly rate this GOODIE MS normally has a copy in his RARE UK Box, When I see what people buy and pay good $£$£ for crap. this is a soul sound DAVE

DON'T DELAY! PLAY IT TO-DAY I TELLS TOU.

You know what, I'm starting to recall something now you've mentioned that label name

HI PETE........Maybe just Maybe this will jog your grey matter, if I am wrong you got to lose a few more cells, I iz right I tells you?? DAVE

WHO IS THE MUSH IN THE PATCHES LOGO? IS IT A LITTLE FROG??

Edited August 10, 201114 yr by dthedrug

HI PETE........Maybe just Maybe this will jog your grey matter, if I am wrong you got to lose a few more cells, I iz right I tells you?? DAVE

WHO IS THE MUSH IN THE PATCHES LOGO? IS IT A LITTLE FROG??

Yes I can sort of remember the logo - that's a boot I don't remember seeing before as well

HI ALL.....the B side is 100% "Cross my hart" on the DEMO, STOCK COPIES that have "DEVIL" on the B are only worth half of the copy you have, and the DEMO is only worth a quarter of the price. Some may think that I have got it wrong! Ranking Johnny Boy. But for me it's all about the quality, in my opinion the DUCK is to good SOUL wise to the pop sound of mid 60s west coast bounce soul that James Carmichael & Randy Wood, put out, (in saying that, I Love the MIRWOOD SOUND).

Cross my Hart, has Hit written all over, but our man Mr Freeman who is also known for his preference to Name the new dance type records (POP) that where so common in the 60s Dave Godin had a name for them which has eluded my GREY STUFF, If you have not got this record, and if you don't no it, I can some it up with 1 word SUPERLITIVEDTHEDRUGQUALITYSOULTHATHITSTHESPOTWITHALLITSGOTANDTHESOME! has this been played? back in 72 Mick Smith played it, af the DIVE in Hitchin Hertsm so does scratching BOOM! BOOM!. So I assume it was played at the Birds Nest, Shades and at lonely old farmyard barns in Bedfordshire, if you are a DJ spin it this week, I highly rate this GOODIE MS normally has a copy in his RARE UK Box, When I see what people buy and pay good $£$£ for crap. this is a soul sound DAVE

DON'T DELAY! PLAY IT TO-DAY I TELLS TOU.

No i have a UK issue with "cross my heart" on Dave,but just plain PYE.and i have been playing at least 20 years.

Hi All ....Ken what I am saying and after seeing probably over a million 45s in my life (must be around that mark) the record you have in my opinion is much rarer than the more common release, as "cross my hart" is a far better record, and rare,

Now record collecting is a strange world indeed, as Ted Massey the Midlands Top Rare Soul DJ said the other day on the subject of pricing & value of records, he mention the 80s and compared with todays prices, some records do not reflect the real price, I would go one step further and say it is sad that people spend so much money to pay for an in demand sound and not have a proper soul collection to fully understand why there record is so rare, rare does not mean it is a brilliant soul recording, well I don't think so anyway?

When the Glen Miller "where is the Love" first got played, I was lucky to already have it in my collection, when I was told how much it was selling for within 6 months I had 6 copies that I got of collectors of Jamaican recordings, and was lucky to buy from a mate the 1st Jamaican STAG copy in the UK £30 from Andrew in Notts, I still have not come across another copy as all the STAG copy's that are about are 2nd issues on yellow & white label, where the 1st issue is mauve & silver, I have noticed that Glen Miller other record on Doctor Bird sells for stupid money, as it's rubbish not rare and a waste of money, there is some excellent Jamaican music about at £5-10 each why spend good money on crap??

To conclude your value of £20 is your value, but just think before you sell it, that out there are people who by all theses bootlegs of classic rare records for stupid prices? and one day they will try and sell them. only to find out the dealers will offer them £2 each if they buy them at all, one day calling a record rare will have a proper meaning.

I was just lucky with the Glen Miller "where is the love" as initially I did not realize how rare the record was, although not in the same league "cross my hart" is rare and should be played as a quality SOUL SOUND, I am glad you play it. DAVE