on the brian mathews show he played a copy of the Donays 'devil in his heart' and once again he refered to the seamen bringing back the best and rarest vynil .to supply the liverpool bands.this was a rare B side AFAIK

if only we knew who these brilliant seamen were , they had just the right ear of the moment and spent their meagre wages on vynil that they might not have sold on and been stuck with .

who were these buggers ?? they were very special sailors !!!

guy stevens and his associates also had a bloody brilliant supplier of the very rarest and best .

it always bothers me who these suppliers were .

for they were so well informed as to what the buyers wanted.

without these supermen the 60s sounds wouldnt have happened ..

 

all the bands refer to the  seamen but if only we knew who they were !!

Edited September 21, 201311 yr by sceneman

on the brian mathews show he played a copy of the Donays 'devil in his heart' and once again he refered to the seamen bringing back the best and rarest vynil .to supply the liverpool bands.this was a rare B side AFAIK

if only we knew who these brilliant seamen were , they had just the right ear of the moment and spent their meagre wages on vynil that they might not have sold on and been stuck with .

who were these buggers ?? they were very special sailors !!!

guy stevens and his associates also had a bloody brilliant supplier of the very rarest and best .

it always bothers me who these suppliers were .

for they were so well informed as to what the buyers wanted.

without these supermen the 60s sounds wouldnt have happened ..

 

all the bands refer to the  seamen but if only we knew who they were !!

 

I read somewhere that a lot of records were ballast on ships. But how they got from the holds of ships into the hands of musicians is unknown to me.

Sinbad started it all.

A myth !

I read somewhere that those type of goods werent coming in to liverpool by the 6ts and fact it was more likely in manchester via the ship cannel. Cant recall what book it was. Possibly Dave Haslem's 'Madchester England'

Record Collector magazine did a piece on this topic a year or two back. Their theory was that a number of Liverpool record shops, including that owned by Brian Epstein, stocked just about every UK release, allowing local musicians hanging out in these shops to hear some of the more obscure releases - like the Donays, released on Oriole. Just about everything that the early 60s British bands covered had already had a UK release, so it sounds more likely that this is the explanation than the visiting sailor theory.

 

Cheers

 

Nick

Sorry if it spoils a good story but I'm in the myth camp too.

 

I've got the biography of Bob Wooler here - Liverpool DJ and close associate of the Beatles.

 

There is a whole chapter titled Cunard Blanks - you can see where he's going with that pun.

 

He says that pre WWII there is no doubt that dance band, jazz and country records were brought over which were not otherwise available here.

 

"But there is no evidence, I repeat no evidence, that the beat groups were performing songs that were brought over by the Cunard Yanks."

 

He also makes the point, as above, that the original of virtually every cover version was already available as a British release.

 

On a similar note I know I read somewhere that Ringo was on the mailing list for every new release from Oriole. It made me wonder if those records all still exist - and with that provenance what they would be worth.

 

MB

I remember reading that John Lennon took a Tamla single (could have been the Marvelettes) to George Martin requesting that he recreate that sound on their own records something to do with the bass.

Both my father and father in law made many trips across the pond in the fifties and early sixties my own father was not interested in music to any great extent ( my sisters had fantastic dolls and I had a brilliant cowboy outfit) however my father in-law had some fantastic Blue Note first presses along with Dave Brubeck and Woody Hermann albums.

i am in the myth camp too ,as they would need to source a record shop when they arrived in the US port and listen to loads of records to find the brilliant tunes.

however Eric Burdon on a jools holland prog earlier this year stated he had 'a bloke who lived downstairs in his house who was a seamen who brought records for him! so would Eric lie on camera ?

but i know for sure that Guy Stevens and James Hamilton had damn good suppliers in the US sending them stuff on a weekly basis .

There is a scene in that film 'Nowhere Boy' where John Lennon swaps a  record at the docks, set in the late 50s.

When you look at the track listing of 'White Lightning'(CD INSD 5017) , most of the standard covers of 60s Beat groups, were mid to late 50s recordings in the states.

Could be old deleted stock records bought cheap, that found there way here, where the music was so much more exciting than anything we had at that time.

If the seamen tales are being dismissed a bit, what about any influence from the US Airbases, was a big one at Burtonwood.. would these fellas be taking their sounds to local dancehalls etc. ???

but surely brian mathews wouldnt propagate a myth as he has interviewed many and should know the facts.

the big mystery though is who was their mentor ?there must have been some catalyst to get guys like guy stevens buying  records from the USA and then playing them to kids who had never heard them .

it would have needed lots of cash to import the 45s when people had little money to spare and they were buying in bulk .

IMO they came from wealthier families and where not working class ,and had money backing them to take a chance .

they were buying 100s of 45s at a time .

If you Google "Cunard Yanks" you will find arguments for and against.

 

To support my own stance (why not!! ) :

 

Bill Harry, editor of Mersey Beat publication, explains: "Originally, when I did some interviews in Mersey Beat for a series called ‘Why Liverpool?’ some of the answers from musicians such as John McNally of the Searchers was that he got records from his brother who was a merchant seaman (a Cunard Yank). A couple of other musicians said this. So when I did an introduction to my 1977 book 'Mersey Beat: The Beginning of the Beatles' I mentioned this. However, as I researched further I discovered that 99% of the groups just got their repertoire from records found in record stores. Those records were available on Merseyside and throughout Britain . The more groups I asked, the more I discovered that the ‘Cunard Yanks’ story was a myth. So I put that right in subsequent writings. Research is always a voyage of discovery."

 

And just to show my mind isn't totally closed - from YouTube and giving a slightly different perspective.

 

Edited September 22, 201311 yr by MBarrett

My experience dates later than the Beatles early 60's Liverpool, but maybe explains things a little ( maybe not but often things dont really change that much)

As a youngster in the mid-late 60's working for a fruit & veg wholesaler/retailer he'd take us to two main places to get the stock, Evesham for the home grown produce, and a 'rough market' not far from the docks (basically the produce was laid out in rows on the floor and they'd walk past each pile and throw buyers tickets on, as each got sold. He'd get me and another kid to hang back and swap the tickets about, knowing if we got caught we'd just get a cuff around the ear and it wouldn't reflect on him, but he'd buy the cheapest rubbish and get us to swap his tickets with the tickets on the best fruits, and because the sellers lads loaded for the buyers, nobody cottoned on)

 

Afterwards our boss would take us around the nearby streets in around the dock area and to some local pubs where people would be hawking all sorts, quite literally at the roadside. He'd buy anything at all that he thought was cheap enough so he could turn a profit, and it's obvious the things he bought were "knock off", goods stolen from the ships.

I'm fairly sure, although it's a long time ago, that my first VIP 45 (possibly my first Soul labelled record and not VIP?) came from one of these streetside sellers, with a stacked up pile of banana boxes made into a makeshift market stall, with brightly coloured import records ( not just US but West Indian & possibly European?) Most trips I'd spend all that I earned on records, knowing that I'd built up a regular number of buyers back home amongst the older mod kids, but even though the records were cheap I only earned fifteen shillings ( i have no memory of "wet" records at all)

 

I think where folk are looking at this wrongly is that in any sales enterprise the seller needs to know what will sell, so these guys, what we'd later on call street hustlers, fully understood which tunes to get. They weren't just Black Music sellers, they had different boxes, some for the Teddy Boys, some for the Hippies and Greasers etc. I remember many a time people would come up and walk off with 2 /3 /4 cratefulls (because I asked if I'd looked through them yet, only to be told that they were other hawkers taking them to sell at other locations, or on other markets in other towns) This doesn't really match with a few handfuls of records bought over by random sailors, I tend to think it was organised criminal enterprise, cash business with the taxman seeing nothing, and the only difference is that on the stalls i was interested in they sold records or jeans, but the same guys moved stalls and sold coats, meat, anything.

In the 80's I wholesaled Videotapes to rental libraries, and on a day out in Liverpool wasn't really surprised to see mountains of dodgy videos, of all the latest cinema hits for sale in almost identical circumstances to the record stall in the 60's.

 

But going back to those days, I think that's why I always was quite happy to buy blind in later life, because of doing it as a kid. My "best" one was buying a load, maybe 25 copies of a record by somebody called Leroy Van Dyke. I asked the guy selling it if it was like Earl Van Dyke and in typical scousey salesmanship fashion he told me it was Earl's brother and they played together in the same band so this song was almost identical to Soul Stomp / Six by Six. Imagine my horror when i got home and it was desperately awful Country & Western.

 

One last thought. I tend to date this period of my life as 67-69, but one thing I clearly remember was that I'd bought some copies of While You're Out Looking For Sugar, and for several weeks after I'd sold them people kept coming to my mom's house asking if I could get them one ( not just kids, but grown men and women) The record was the most indemand thing ever. I think it got released in the UK but guess they didn't make anywhere near enough to satisfy demand, because everybody kept chasing the import weeks later. In the end I even sold my own copy when offered a stupidly high price by a desperate DJ.

hth

If the seamen tales are being dismissed a bit, what about any influence from the US Airbases, was a big one at Burtonwood.. would these fellas be taking their sounds to local dancehalls etc. ???

Yeah your right about Burtonwood it was huge and was classed as America..I can recall going on the the base in the mid 70s and they had a Bowling Alley which was unheard of in the area..You could buy huge American cars and step side pick ups very cheap around Warrington

There seems to be some evidence for the theory that US records circulated in Liverpool, but this has grown to the point that I heard someone on TV claim that you could walk down Liverpool streets and hear RnB and soul blasting out ,Harlem style, from houses all over the place. Gerry Marsden was interviewed on a TV show and mentioned the records he heard as a youngster via seamen ,but all the records he listed were UK releases . Record labels like London, Pye Top Rank and Stateside were all fighting to issue US records so why risk bringing back records from New York to find they were easily available in record shops.

 

The fact that Merseyside groups played and recorded US soul songs is nothing special as everyone was doing it. My elder brother was guitarist in a "beat combo", Pete and the Mohawks, around 1965 to 67. I was too young to go to their shows but they would practice every Sunday at home so I would watch them learn new songs. They would have sheet music or a record and just keep going over the song until it sounded like the record. Songs that stick in my mind are Knock on Wood, In the Midnight Hour and Hang on Sloopy, all common at the time. They played around Stockport and S Manchester with a regular booking at The Fingerpost pub in Stockport which carries on this tradition with appearances from Paul Kidd's Wigan All-Stars.

 

The groups and singers that played and recorded obscure soul songs, such as Jimmy James, Geno Washington, Chris Farlowe, Alan Bown were mainly from the south and London,but maybe this was down to publishers and producers. I don't recall any Mersey groups covering songs that hadn't had a UK issue. Could it be that from a few instances of US records coming to Liverpool the story has grown out of all proportion due to the scouse trait of praising Liverpool at any opportunity.

 

On the other hand,I went to an exhibition in Liverpool some years ago, I think it was the one being promoted by the Cunard Yanks in post 14 and spoke to one of the men in the film. He had a stand at the exhibition with some LP sleeves on display. One of these was an Epic LP by Roy Hamilton, so I asked him about it and the others on display. He said he was a Jazz and Swing fan and went to clubs in New York to see live shows, including Roy H. The records he bought back were for himself not to sell.

 

My brother went to sea in the early seventies, sailing to the mid and far east but all he ever bought back were tacky souvenir type "tribal" art objects.

 

Rick

My brother went to sea in the early seventies, sailing to the mid and far east but all he ever bought back were tacky souvenir type "tribal" art objects.

 

 

Ditto.

 

My brother was just a bit earlier - late 60's.

 

He used to say that sailing for endless days and weeks up the coast of Africa was like a prison sentence - but without even a radio to listen to.

 

No surprise he served out his apprenticeship and called it a day.

 

Not even any tacky souvenirs from him - just the very occasional postcard to our Mum when he could be a**ed.

 

MB

Very doubtful if any west Indian records came via that route.

You only have to look at the London Records discography to see that masses of stuff was available to UK record buyers in the early 60s assuming they knew what they wanted!

How much truth is there in the ballast story as I have heard about this on a couple of occasions.

I do believe that the 60's bands had access via UK releases, and once they had mastered certain tunes the chords that they had learnt was at their disposal. Cue shifting order of those chords to bring a new song to life.

Motown had a routine where if they produced a song that was a hit, the same chords were used but in a different sequence. Sometimes it worked.

imports in london in the early 60s were mega rare, like hens teeth ,until Transat imports opened up but the stock was very limited ,they had nothing like the imports guy stevens was playing, 

he would play an import then if it was well received by the mods issue it on Sue.

but there is still the missing link that explains why the imports  became so entrenched on the music scene of the time .

the music press of the time was silent about imports.

It's a crock. Likewise the tosh about tons of cut-outs being used for ballast. The airmen at Burtonwood had the perks of US living on base so there would have been Motown stable labels floating around: however, the military faced limits on what they could ship around so box loads of 45's were not brought over en masse to be abandoned when the tour of duty finished. Liverpool was a flourishing port in the '60's and there was a ready trade in all sorts of imports from broken crates, but the sheer volume of British 45's overwhelmed those from the US.

Yeah your right about Burtonwood it was huge and was classed as America..I can recall going on the the base in the mid 70s and they had a Bowling Alley which was unheard of in the area..You could buy huge American cars and step side pick ups very cheap around Warrington

Leigh just down the road from Burtonnwood Air Base in Warrington ( which was the biggest supply base in europe ) had a thriving Bowling Alley in the 1960s where American servicemen used. Back in 1971 the Commander at the base had  beautiful twin daughters my age and they hung around with myself and my mates i can still see my mum n dads & relatives faces when i walked into my cousins wedding with one on each arm one evening in 71 LOL.

Edited September 24, 201311 yr by IANCSLOFT

What i would like to know who was supplying all the shops with US Soul Imports 45s from around 1970--75 here in the Northwest  in my hometown Leigh there where around a dozen small shops including junk shops paper shops electrical shops ect selling soul imports on small independant labels just down the rd in Bolton was the same we use to travel on the bus to a small paper shop in Little Lever just down the rd from Bob Hinsleys current home and get loads of decent 45s.. Bostocks in Bradford where did they get all that stock ???

Ian Cunliffe

It's a crock. Likewise the tosh about tons of cut-outs being used for ballast. The airmen at Burtonwood had the perks of US living on base so there would have been Motown stable labels floating around: however, the military faced limits on what they could ship around so box loads of 45's were not brought over en masse to be abandoned when the tour of duty finished. Liverpool was a flourishing port in the '60's and there was a ready trade in all sorts of imports from broken crates, but the sheer volume of British 45's overwhelmed those from the US.

I was thinking more of influencing what the early "Beat" groups could hear and pick up rather than mass importation of vinyl

How much truth is there in the ballast story as I have heard about this on a couple of occasions.

 

None

How much truth is there in the ballast story as I have heard about this on a couple of occasions.

 

 

From a technical and economical point of view this would be highly unlikely.  Ships have ballast tanks below the waterline which they fill with seawater to maintain the trim.  As fuel is used, they need to counteract this by filling the ballast tanks.  The seawater is then pumped out prior to getting alongside.  They would not fill the hold with unnecessary ballast, as any space on a cargo ship is at a premium.  Boring, I know, but records as ballast doesn't make sense.

What i would like to know who was supplying all the shops with US Soul Imports 45s from around 1970--75 here in the Northwest  in my hometown Leigh there where around a dozen small shops including junk shops paper shops electrical shops ect selling soul imports on small independant labels just down the rd in Bolton was the same we use to travel on the bus to a small paper shop in Little Lever just down the rd from Bob Hinsleys current home and get loads of decent 45s.. Bostocks in Bradford where did they get all that stock ???

Ian Cunliffe

Ian

In a previous thread about Bostocks it says that they got the records from Soul Bowl as the shipment was so big John Anderson just sold the lot to them. I think Bostocks advertised packs of records in a trade paper, The World's Fair which was read by market traders and the like.

 

In Manchester and Lancashire there were quit a few branches of NRS (Northern Record Sales?) who all had loads of singles especially the Chess group. I think Arthur Robinson of Robinson's Records was behind this. He also sold records to markets and fairs through adverts in World's Fair.

 

All this was only possible when the US companies dumped millions of unsold stock for peanuts in the late sixties so long after the alleged Merseyside record spree.

 

Rick 

Northern record sales did,nt they have a branch in Manchester early 70,s St Stephens Square ? I remember going into that shop it was full of Dave Godins Soul City 45s everything on the label ...

Robinsons records hey Rick plenty happy memories of that shop lol

When i lived in BOOTLE in the 60s  my dad worked on the docks as a stevedore, didnt bring home any records, but anything else that wasnt nailed down he brought home......they used to accidentally drop cases bound for the U.S.A., at times we had more JOHNNY WALKER RED LABEL WHISKEY in our house than was on the ship . He came home from work one day after 1000s of womens knickers went missing off a ship bound for the states ,to find my mum had washed all her share of the booty and hung them on the line for everyone to see,can still see and hear my dad  "effing and blinding " and grabbing them off the washing line before the old bill saw them .......also remember i had to push my little sister around the block in her pram with a t.v. and radio in it when they came around to check if you had a license for the t.v. or radio. .....great memories.....

 

sorry i went of topic a bit....

Leigh just down the road from Burtonnwood Air Base in Warrington ( which was the biggest supply base in europe ) had a thriving Bowling Alley in the 1960s where American servicemen used. Back in 1971 the Commander at the base had  beautiful twin daughters my age and they hung around with myself and my mates i can still see my mum n dads & relatives faces when i walked into my cousins wedding with one on each arm one evening in 71 LOL.

Ian was the Bowling Alley still in Leigh in the 70s..I was from Aspull and didn't venture to Leigh until the early 70s but never remember the Bowling Alley..I used to work on Silcocks fair and when we held the fair on the base we used to get King Edward cigars for next to nothing!

When i lived in BOOTLE in the 60s  my dad worked on the docks as a stevedore, didnt bring home any records, but anything else that wasnt nailed down he brought home......they used to accidentally drop cases bound for the U.S.A., at times we had more JOHNNY WALKER RED LABEL WHISKEY in our house than was on the ship . He came home from work one day after 1000s of womens knickers went missing off a ship bound for the states ,to find my mum had washed all her share of the booty and hung them on the line for everyone to see,can still see and hear my dad  "effing and blinding " and grabbing them off the washing line before the old bill saw them .......also remember i had to push my little sister around the block in her pram with a t.v. and radio in it when they came around to check if you had a license for the t.v. or radio. .....great memories.....

 

sorry i went of topic a bit....

Or was he a diesel fitter...

What i would like to know who was supplying all the shops with US Soul Imports 45s from around 1970--75 here in the Northwest  in my hometown Leigh there where around a dozen small shops including junk shops paper shops electrical shops ect selling soul imports on small independant labels just down the rd in Bolton was the same we use to travel on the bus to a small paper shop in Little Lever just down the rd from Bob Hinsleys current home and get loads of decent 45s.. Bostocks in Bradford where did they get all that stock ???

Ian Cunliffe

I remember buying Tony Clarke's 'Landslide' on an English label in one such shop in Leigh. Was stopping with friends in Culcheth one Saturday in March 1974 and went to Leigh baths for a swim. Crossing the road, I saw the record in a shop window but had no cash on me. Caught the bus back to Culcheth, got some cash then caught the bus back to Leigh for the record and a swim. This impulsive urge continues still. Went to the Casino that night and can still recall listening to the tape made as I hung around Leigh bus station...Velvet Satins, Gwen and Ray etc. I think the records in Leigh then were catering for a booming market, particularly a local Manchester influenced youth scene.

Ian was the Bowling Alley still in Leigh in the 70s..I was from Aspull and didn't venture to Leigh until the early 70s but never remember the Bowling Alley..I used to work on Silcocks fair and when we held the fair on the base we used to get King Edward cigars for next to nothing!

The Bowling Alley was next to Leigh Bridge at the side of the canal where the Aldi supermarket and Waterside pub is now I think it shut in the late 60s we use to go after school and hang around in there .. I use to go out with a lass from Burtnwood Sue Duxbury in 1971 her sister Brenda's husband had some great records which I managed to wangle one or two off him for a small place Burtnwood village had a lot of soulies who use to go to the Highland Room Torch ect ect

The Bowling Alley was next to Leigh Bridge at the side of the canal where the Aldi supermarket and Waterside pub is now I think it shut in the late 60s we use to go after school and hang around in there .. I use to go out with a lass from Burtnwood Sue Duxbury in 1971 her sister Brenda's husband had some great records which I managed to wangle one or two off him for a small place Burtnwood village had a lot of soulies who use to go to the Highland Room Torch ect ect

I recall that place being an amusement arcade..After I moved to Culcheth around 76 I bought a slate bed pool table from there, it was hell of a job stripping it to get it upstairs and rebuilding it..Our house got raided by The DS but luckily they didn't remove the slate bed top from the pool table 

We used to spend a lot of time at The Carlton and knocked about with some of the Warrington folks..Bobby & Mally Houghton..Chilly..Tank come to mind!

Edited September 26, 201311 yr by dedji1955

judging from the comments records were arriving in liverpool by some means in bulk of varying quality and not arriving in london at the time, i know cos i was searching soho at the time .,

so that only leaves some well informed business gents bringing them in in bulk on ships by some means .

possibly as cargo and not being declared .

we can discount lone seamen and sailors doing it i reckon.

as they wouldnt have the money and knowledge at the time ..

ballast is out and US bases is out .

could cargo and ballast not concievably have been the same thing ? killing two birds with one stone ? 

I remember reading that John Lennon took a Tamla single (could have been the Marvelettes) to George Martin requesting that he recreate that sound on their own records something to do with the bass.

Ive listened to Beatles songs played by the Detroit top music men (R I P) and couldn't you tell

My experience dates later than the Beatles early 60's Liverpool, but maybe explains things a little ( maybe not but often things dont really change that much)

As a youngster in the mid-late 60's working for a fruit & veg wholesaler/retailer he'd take us to two main places to get the stock, Evesham for the home grown produce, and a 'rough market' not far from the docks (basically the produce was laid out in rows on the floor and they'd walk past each pile and throw buyers tickets on, as each got sold. He'd get me and another kid to hang back and swap the tickets about, knowing if we got caught we'd just get a cuff around the ear and it wouldn't reflect on him, but he'd buy the cheapest rubbish and get us to swap his tickets with the tickets on the best fruits, and because the sellers lads loaded for the buyers, nobody cottoned on)

 

Afterwards our boss would take us around the nearby streets in around the dock area and to some local pubs where people would be hawking all sorts, quite literally at the roadside. He'd buy anything at all that he thought was cheap enough so he could turn a profit, and it's obvious the things he bought were "knock off", goods stolen from the ships.

I'm fairly sure, although it's a long time ago, that my first VIP 45 (possibly my first Soul labelled record and not VIP?) came from one of these streetside sellers, with a stacked up pile of banana boxes made into a makeshift market stall, with brightly coloured import records ( not just US but West Indian & possibly European?) Most trips I'd spend all that I earned on records, knowing that I'd built up a regular number of buyers back home amongst the older mod kids, but even though the records were cheap I only earned fifteen shillings ( i have no memory of "wet" records at all)

 

I think where folk are looking at this wrongly is that in any sales enterprise the seller needs to know what will sell, so these guys, what we'd later on call street hustlers, fully understood which tunes to get. They weren't just Black Music sellers, they had different boxes, some for the Teddy Boys, some for the Hippies and Greasers etc. I remember many a time people would come up and walk off with 2 /3 /4 cratefulls (because I asked if I'd looked through them yet, only to be told that they were other hawkers taking them to sell at other locations, or on other markets in other towns) This doesn't really match with a few handfuls of records bought over by random sailors, I tend to think it was organised criminal enterprise, cash business with the taxman seeing nothing, and the only difference is that on the stalls i was interested in they sold records or jeans, but the same guys moved stalls and sold coats, meat, anything.

In the 80's I wholesaled Videotapes to rental libraries, and on a day out in Liverpool wasn't really surprised to see mountains of dodgy videos, of all the latest cinema hits for sale in almost identical circumstances to the record stall in the 60's.

 

But going back to those days, I think that's why I always was quite happy to buy blind in later life, because of doing it as a kid. My "best" one was buying a load, maybe 25 copies of a record by somebody called Leroy Van Dyke. I asked the guy selling it if it was like Earl Van Dyke and in typical scousey salesmanship fashion he told me it was Earl's brother and they played together in the same band so this song was almost identical to Soul Stomp / Six by Six. Imagine my horror when i got home and it was desperately awful Country & Western.

 

One last thought. I tend to date this period of my life as 67-69, but one thing I clearly remember was that I'd bought some copies of While You're Out Looking For Sugar, and for several weeks after I'd sold them people kept coming to my mom's house asking if I could get them one ( not just kids, but grown men and women) The record was the most indemand thing ever. I think it got released in the UK but guess they didn't make anywhere near enough to satisfy demand, because everybody kept chasing the import weeks later. In the end I even sold my own copy when offered a stupidly high price by a desperate DJ.

hth

What an interesting story

What i would like to know who was supplying all the shops with US Soul Imports 45s from around 1970--75 here in the Northwest  in my hometown Leigh there where around a dozen small shops including junk shops paper shops electrical shops ect selling soul imports on small independant labels just down the rd in Bolton was the same we use to travel on the bus to a small paper shop in Little Lever just down the rd from Bob Hinsleys current home and get loads of decent 45s.. Bostocks in Bradford where did they get all that stock ???

Ian Cunliffe

and what I would like to know is where are these twins right now

Well I have a bit of personal experience with regard to this matter.

Merchant seamen & Dockers were always on the look -out for extra ways to make money. The wife's dad was a (Hull) docker and (as stated earlier) was always coming home with bits that had escaped from 'broken boxes'. BUT, he also dealt with the seamen he came across. Lots (most) were from foreign countries and so were on the look out for UK £'s when they docked here. They would fetch stuff that was cheap back in their countries to sell, thereby getting hold of the local currency and allowing them to go out on the booze / pull.

'Urrindors' dad was always coming home with cheap watches (from far eastern / eastern European boats) or good quality working shirts (from Polish crews I think) but at times he would get all sorts of stuff. I used to go around the Hull 2nd hand shops back in the 60's looking for 45's. I was always coming across German / Dutch / French released stuff and assumed it had been sold be seamen off boats that had docked in Hull.

Also in the mid 60's, my older brother was a ship's engineer sailing on boats out of Mancaster. His ships had 2 routes; Argentina or the US / Canadian seaways. The ships went to Argentina for the cheap & plentiful beef there and he would buy leather skins there really cheap and sell them when back in the UK. When he was on the 'Great Lakes' route, he would dock in places such as Detroit and Chicago (plus other places). I was collecting records already and always asked him to drop into record shop's near the docks to buy 45's / LP's out of their cheap boxes. He had no idea about soul stuff as he was a folk music man. Because of this I couldn't convince him to take a punt at any likely looking 45's in the shop's 10 cent boxes (much to my annoyance). He did however feel more safe buying albums for me & would get any that were cheap and had a black guy/ girl / group on the cover. To say, he went up and down the Great Lakes about 6 times a year for 3/4 years, I got precious little via him. I did get a fw nice things though, Spyder Turner's MGM LP + Freddie Scott's Shout LP and a couple of other items.

What he didn't tell me though (I was still at school & so had little money) was that his ship had 'family' cabins for a couple of passengers. I could have gone on a trip to the US i the school summer holidays for nowt and then gone looking for my own 45's ...... guess he didn't want his annoying younger brother hanging around for weeks on end while he went about his day job.

So I have no doubt's that (say) Liverpool seamen came back from the States with R&B / soul 45's but (in the main) they wouldn't have known too much about what they were buying apart from being given a few blues guys names to look out for by their Merseyside based customers. Whilst in dock in the US, most seamen got days off to go floating about the city they were in & the opportunity to make a bit of money on the side would not have been passed up.