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Posted

Just interested in your thoughts on "Woman Lover Thief"

A pal of mine rates it as a pop record, although a good one. To my ears, it's soul and I like it as much as The Precisions.

Can anyone say when it was it first played out? I don't recall hearing it at a venue in my early days on the scene ...

Thanks

Col

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Actually Coplin told me he had recorded the group but they didn't have a name at the time. He played the track down the phone to Florence Greenberg and she said "great, what is the group's name?". Cop

before posting it may be worth some members taking a bit of time to read some of the posts already made!    

It is of course more than entirely possible that McGregor resold the backing track to Sam Coplin. Wouldn't be the first time that type of thing happened and he was a bit of a wheeler dealer character.

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Posted

Very late 77, early 78, used to have a tape of the very first play of this at Wigan and it was January 78. This record absolutely p*sses on The Precisions.

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Very late 77, early 78, used to have a tape of the very first play of this at Wigan and it was January 78. This record absolutely p*sses on The Precisions.

Am I right in saying Russ started this off at The Casino Pete ? Best ,Eddie

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Posted

Am I right in saying Russ started this off at The Casino Pete ? Best ,Eddie

Hi Eddie

Always interested me, how a Detroit tune found it's way down to Memphis for Stemmons Express to pick up on it. Also have always wanted a local label issue of it, have a Wand copy, but a Karma copy would be nice. Anyone got one, that they would be interested in doing a trade on for the Wand one and cash or records???

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Posted

Hi Eddie

Always interested me, how a Detroit tune found it's way down to Memphis for Stemmons Express to pick up on it. Also have always wanted a local label issue of it, have a Wand copy, but a Karma copy would be nice. Anyone got one, that they would be interested in doing a trade on for the Wand one and cash or records???

This doesn't help you with your question Dave but I've got another record on Karma, it's only the second I've seen, but I'm sure that the address on the label is in L.A.!

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This doesn't help you with your question Dave but I've got another record on Karma, it's only the second I've seen, but I'm sure that the address on the label is in L.A.!

Hi Pete

There are several Karma labels. I sure the Stemmons Express is a Memphis label

Dave

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Hi Pete

There are several Karma labels. I sure the Stemmons Express is a Memphis label

Dave

I'm sure there are mate but this is the same label as Stemmons Express, having previously owned it on that label, ner-ner

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Absolutely love this, usually a 'last hour' spin at t' 100 club................if any one says this ain't soul they want there head checking :thumbsup:

Precisions is good......but like Pete says it p*sses all over it

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Any one wanna sell me a 'Demand' boot (UK) of this?

they often become available on ebay for as little as a fiver so its worth keeping an eye out for one on there if no luck on here,

Bearsy

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they often become available on ebay for as little as a fiver so its worth keeping an eye out for one on there if no luck on here,

Bearsy

Thanks for that, just had a look on evilbay and none in sight at the mo. So i'm still up for a copy if anyone's got one knocking around, filed with their Wigans Ovations, Ruth Swann's etc...

John

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Posted

Absolutely love this, usually a 'last hour' spin at t' 100 club................if any one says this ain't soul they want there head checking :thumbsup:

Precisions is good......but like Pete says it p*sses all over it

It's not bad, but it just feels a bit awkward, like the lyrics don't fit the tune. I always find myself hearing 'such misery' in my head when it's played. I suppose it depends which one you heard first maybe..?

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Hi Pete

There are several Karma labels. I sure the Stemmons Express is a Memphis label

Dave

Your old copy Dave,

such misery - the Precisions -Drew

10212 refosoul

Goes with the thread dont it.

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Posted

Very late 77, early 78, used to have a tape of the very first play of this at Wigan and it was January 78. This record absolutely p*sses on The Precisions.

Afraid I differ with Pete on this one, Stemmons Express do a good job for a white group , but the Precisions superior vocal qualities gives them the edge ... it's exactly the same backing track after all isn't it ?

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Posted

It's not bad, but it just feels a bit awkward, like the lyrics don't fit the tune. I always find myself hearing 'such misery' in my head when it's played. I suppose it depends which one you heard first maybe..?

true, which is why I prefer Woman, Lover, Thief. First heard it on the Kent LP Dancing Til Dawn. :thumbsup:

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Posted (edited)

Doesn't seem to be any clues as to the city on the label, But if the Stemmons Express were a Memphis group, it would fit with the lyric "When she touches down in Memphis, I'll be there" No clues as to the writers on either the karma or Wand release. I prefer the SE version, much more atmospheric :thumbsup:

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Edited by Trevski
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Afraid I differ with Pete on this one, Stemmons Express do a good job for a white group , but the Precisions superior vocal qualities gives them the edge ... it's exactly the same backing track after all isn't it ?

I agree. The vocals on the Precisions are much better than Stemmons Express.

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Posted (edited)

Doesn't seem to be any clues as to the city on the label, But if the Stemmons Express were a Memphis group, it would fit with the lyric "When she touches down in Memphis, I'll be there" No clues as to the writers on either the karma or Wand release. I prefer the SE version, much more atmospheric :thumbsup:

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I have to agree with you here, Stemmons Express hits it just right, with that lyric - "When she touches down in Memphis, I'll be there"

Magic.

I like Timmy Willis version & The Precisions, but Stemmons Express give a faultless performance on this. :D

Edited by 45cellar
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Posted

Hi Pete

There are several Karma labels. I sure the Stemmons Express is a Memphis label

Dave

Like Pete I remember Russ playing it at WIgan in 77 - massive record. Think Clarkie went with the Precisions at Yate.

Anyway Stemmons Express(way) is a major road running into Dallas Tx. I know the record mentions "touching down in Memphis", but I always thought they were a Texas group. They are white 98% sure, but it's still a very good record.

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Like Pete I remember Russ playing it at WIgan in 77 - massive record. Think Clarkie went with the Precisions at Yate.

Stemmons deffo got many plays at Yate - sadly my befuddled brain can't remember who played it most. Did you have your Wand issue then, Dave?

Jerry.

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Posted

I heard the Precisions first (Got a Cream copy ina shop in Gloucester), so at a soul night I prefer to hear Such Misery.

Stemmons sounds better tho, in a car, on a sunny day, volume at full, and you belting your head off. Hey stop her! She stole my soul.

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This doesn't help you with your question Dave but I've got another record on Karma, it's only the second I've seen, but I'm sure that the address on the label is in L.A.!

I've had 3 of the 5 release on the label all Sam Coplin productions and I feel sure one of them gave aTexas address.

Interesting how both the Wand and the Karmar release quote Sam Coplin publishing with the Wand promo release not quoting and writer credits..

just steal the song change the words... it happened then and it's happening today.

I had the Karma copy way before I knew it was on Wand, got it from Brian 45 Philips in about 1972.. can't say where it was played first, but I used to play the "Love Power" side locally because it was more Northern for the era.

"Woman" was certainly played at Cleethorpes Pier but it wasn't a major tune.a record more associated with the Casino.

As for it being "pop", the 3 on label i know are white "garage" influenced by soul & blues.. so not really pop.

PS we have a Karma copy in line for Auction in the new year..

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personally, always thought this was just a pop record. must need me 'ead checkin'

:thumbsup:

What's "pop" about it?

I can't hear any pop qualities at all. It's a brilliant northern soul record.

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Posted

I've had 3 of the 5 release on the label all Sam Coplin productions and I feel sure one of them gave aTexas address.

Interesting how both the Wand and the Karmar release quote Sam Coplin publishing with the Wand promo release not quoting and writer credits..

just steal the song change the words... it happened then and it's happening today.

I had the Karma copy way before I knew it was on Wand, got it from Brian 45 Philips in about 1972.. can't say where it was played first, but I used to play the "Love Power" side locally because it was more Northern for the era.

"Woman" was certainly played at Cleethorpes Pier but it wasn't a major tune.a record more associated with the Casino.

As for it being "pop", the 3 on label i know are white "garage" influenced by soul & blues.. so not really pop.

PS we have a Karma copy in line for Auction in the new year..

The one I've got on the label is a garage record John but I still can't find it or remember the name of the group!

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Am I right in saying Russ started this off at The Casino Pete ? Best ,Eddie

Definitely mate. I used to see you there practically every week around that time, remember?

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Posted

What's "pop" about it?

I can't hear any pop qualities at all. It's a brilliant northern soul record.

i thinki it's just the timbre of the singer's voice. listening to it right now. just doesn't do it for me.

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Stemmons deffo got many plays at Yate - sadly my befuddled brain can't remember who played it most. Did you have your Wand issue then, Dave?

Jerry.

Jerry,im sure stemmons used to be played at the watson hall thats got to be 77/78,it was played all the time at stroud do's in that era,i always thought you had a copy,there again by brains shot anyway :thumbsup:
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Said it before, Precisions for me every time ! the whole package is together. Stemens Express, even though i like it, always sounds a bit vocals stuck on a backing track, if you get what i mean ?

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Jerry,im sure stemmons used to be played at the watson hall thats got to be 77/78,it was played all the time at stroud do's in that era,i always thought you had a copy,there again by brains shot anyway :thumbsup:

Wasn't me Simon...as far as I know :thumbsup: ...though I will admit to being there!

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Said it before, Precisions for me every time ! the whole package is together. Stemens Express, even though i like it, always sounds a bit vocals stuck on a backing track, if you get what i mean ?

It's exactly the same for me!

Precisions has definately got more soul but Stemmonds Express sounds great on a big system.

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Said it before, Precisions for me every time ! the whole package is together. Stemens Express, even though i like it, always sounds a bit vocals stuck on a backing track, if you get what i mean ?

Sounds the opposite to me - the Precisions song is much weaker and the performance is lifeless. Though I heard Stemmons first.

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Posted

Sounds the opposite to me - the Precisions song is much weaker and the performance is lifeless. Though I heard Stemmons first.

Think 'Lifeless' is i bit strong & sweeping Pete ?

But thinking back i probably heard the Precisions version first, & as is usually the way, you tend to identify with that. Trying to think of a tune of anything where i have prefered a version heard after ? Might be a good thread that.

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Posted

A friend writes...

Kama Records was based in Houston, Texas and was owned by Sam & Nancy Coplin

They are divorced, no contact ....She stll lives there as he did last time we spoke .. he was having a heart op & i've not heard from him since

Their office overlooked the Stemmons Express Way .. one of the major roads .. and the group took their name from there

There were a few releaes on the label but Sam described them as rock things .. so I guess we'd call them garage ... he had nothing left

He says that he wrote he tune .. he had never ever heard of the Precisions, Drew Records & had no knowledge of the track being used on another recording ... it amused him

The track was covered up as The Precisions - Look there she goes

I can't recall exactly but I think they were a white group .. might need to check that

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Didn't realise that, i was always under the impression that Stemmons Express was recorded after.

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Posted

Definitely mate. I used to see you there practically every week around that time, remember?

Yes , and travelled home with you on the train as far as Wolverhampton , often buying or trading records on the journey back [HB Barnum " The Record " UK Capitol demo false centre - still got it !! ] Great memories !! Best ,Eddie

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A friend writes...

Kama Records was based in Houston, Texas and was owned by Sam & Nancy Coplin

They are divorced, no contact ....She stll lives there as he did last time we spoke .. he was having a heart op & i've not heard from him since

Their office overlooked the Stemmons Express Way .. one of the major roads .. and the group took their name from there

There were a few releaes on the label but Sam described them as rock things .. so I guess we'd call them garage ... he had nothing left

He says that he wrote he tune .. he had never ever heard of the Precisions, Drew Records & had no knowledge of the track being used on another recording ... it amused him

The track was covered up as The Precisions - Look there she goes

I can't recall exactly but I think they were a white group .. might need to check that

Fantastic stuff! I knew that Texas connection was there and the connection to the road (there is also a Stemmons Expressway in Dallas). To add I did ask a local who "Stemmons" was -basically a major property developer in Texas in times past. And to confirm the group were white for what it's worth. gr8 tune.

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Posted

I always thought the karma label to be out of dallas texas

does anybody else rate the fantastic love power on the flip

also has anybody seen a karma copy mispressed as love tower

dave

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I always thought the karma label to be out of dallas texas

dave

So I am not going completely made....just yet then

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Posted

Stemmons Express were deinately a white group and i believe there were 4 members if memory serves me right,

cant remember where i see there picture though.

Bearsy

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I always thought the karma label to be out of dallas texas

does anybody else rate the fantastic love power on the flip

also has anybody seen a karma copy mispressed as love tower

dave

Love Power has the same backing track as The Sandpebbles version doesn't it? Or was it The Precisions. Or both.

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Guest TONY ROUNCE
Posted

Like Pete I remember Russ playing it at WIgan in 77 - massive record. Think Clarkie went with the Precisions at Yate.

Anyway Stemmons Express(way) is a major road running into Dallas Tx. I know the record mentions "touching down in Memphis", but I always thought they were a Texas group. They are white 98% sure, but it's still a very good record.

Indeed they are a Texas group. This Karma label is out of Houston. The first time I ever drove a car, after passing my test, was on the Stemmons during rush hour on a Friday afternoon. Talk about your baptism by fire...

Anyway, Wand was doing quite a bit of business with Huey Meaux and Steve Tyrell, both out of Houston, at the time they picked up WLT and I suspect that it might have reached New York by that very same route (not via the Stemmons :thumbsup: 0

TONE

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This doesn't help you with your question Dave but I've got another record on Karma, it's only the second I've seen, but I'm sure that the address on the label is in L.A.!

i allways thought that too, 'stemmons' may not be but the label is out of california. i read somewhere a few years ago that an early incarnation of Fleetwood Mac also had a 45 out of the label, recorded and released in Calif. it also said that 'stemmons' came out at about the same time 1968/69 which puts it after the Precisions.

I can't find the article right now, but found the 45 on popsike (pete, if that's the one you got it went for $800 a few years ago), the label number has rubbed off my Stemmons 45 so cant see if it came before or after the 'fleetwood' one.

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Whether or not Karma was based in Texas (I for one believe it was), I think it's more curious how 2 different Precisions backing tracks ended up on either side of the Stemmons 45 :wicked:

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Posted

true, which is why I prefer Woman, Lover, Thief. First heard it on the Kent LP Dancing Til Dawn. :wicked:

..so did I, and I've still got the LP....'Woman,Lover Thief' has got that indefinable thing,...atmosphere....whistful lyrics, slower tempo bridges.....that far-away, mysterious quality that many NS tracks have....

..what more could the fans want? cool.gif

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A friend writes...

Kama Records was based in Houston, Texas and was owned by Sam & Nancy Coplin

He says that he wrote he tune .. he had never ever heard of the Precisions, Drew Records & had no knowledge of the track being used on another recording ... it amused him

But was'nt the Precisions version recorded a couple of years earlier?

Strange if he does'nt remember it.

Did Drew steal his song before he even could record it and is'nt it the same backing track?

The Precisions credits Ashford as the writer but the labels are not always right.

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Afraid I differ with Pete on this one, Stemmons Express do a good job for a white group , but the Precisions superior vocal qualities gives them the edge ... it's exactly the same backing track after all isn't it ?

I gotta agree with you there thumbsup.gif

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