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FRANKIE CROCKER

White Wigan patch with green trim.

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8 minutes ago, IanP said:

Yes, familiar with this... I was there.

Badge in question is one that first appeared as a maroon Keep The Faith five petal rose, very similar to the yellow patch issued at the first allniter on 23/9/73.

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End figure was £89.99 and 14 bids recorded. All bids were secret and private with the identity of the bidder(s) well and truly masked by eBay. The bids were as dodgy looking as they get looking at the timings and amounts. The patch was put up for sale with a tatty looking membership card but surely nobody would want this...

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It’s a hand made one off design , and really should have stated that in the listing .

The seller has sold a few like this over time and some originals .... and his own hand made ones where made back in the 80’s I believe . 

Never like private listings myself ,  as it’s always make me a bit suspicious of who is bidding ... its hard to know if shill bidding goes on at the best of times , but that said the guy that made them does have a real good collection of old Wigan stuff and is not just doing this to rip other off . 

And there where loads of odd designs back then , that didn’t sell big or made in big numbers , with different coloured edges or backgrounds. When they ran out of cotton or used up what stock they had left sometimes designs changed slightly . 

 

Edited by stevegods

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21 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

End figure was £89.99 and 14 bids recorded. All bids were secret and private with the identity of the bidder(s) well and truly masked by eBay. The bids were as dodgy looking as they get looking at the timings and amounts. The patch was put up for sale with a tatty looking membership card but surely nobody would want this...

Hope it wasn't my card - stolen in my wallet on a rare occasion when I took the wallet to work about 25 years ago! My 6Ts membership card went at the same time. Probably meant nothing whatsoever to the git who took it.

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2 hours ago, seano said:

Hope it wasn't my card - stolen in my wallet on a rare occasion when I took the wallet to work about 25 years ago! My 6Ts membership card went at the same time. Probably meant nothing whatsoever to the git who took it.

Probably not even though the name could not be seen. It was in a bad state, badly worn and seloptaped. Nobody would put this in a frame for memorabilia. What sort of scroat thieves in the workplace?

Edited by FRANKIE CROCKER
typo

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18 hours ago, stevegods said:

It’s a hand made one off design , and really should have stated that in the listing .

The seller has sold a few like this over time and some originals .... and his own hand made ones where made back in the 80’s I believe . 

Never like private listings myself ,  as it’s always make me a bit suspicious of who is bidding ... its hard to know if shill bidding goes on at the best of times , but that said the guy that made them does have a real good collection of old Wigan stuff and is not just doing this to rip other off . 

And there where loads of odd designs back then , that didn’t sell big or made in big numbers , with different coloured edges or backgrounds. When they ran out of cotton or used up what stock they had left sometimes designs changed slightly . 

 

Thanks for this Steve. Bootleg badges, whatever next.  So, a home-made hand-made item, perhaps one of several. I had no idea this practice had even taken place. I dislike private listings as there’s very little to justify them and the scope for subtefuge is considerable.

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59 minutes ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Probably not even though the name could not be seen. It was in a bad state, sell worn and seloptaped. Nobody would put this in a frame for memorabilia. What sort of scroat thieves in the workplace?

I think it was some chancer coming by the school I worked in who may have jumped in via an open window and just struck lucky and probably jumped straight out again and legged it. I scoured the grounds but no luck, thought the person might have grabbed the £10 and chucked everything else. 

The wallet itself was a Mulberry sample that my wife had got in a sale and it was worth a couple of hundred pounds so I made a claim - after a lot of to-ing and fro-ing with me proving ownership of the wallet they did pay out on that but attached no value at all to the soul club cards. A sad statement on how we value things.

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So, have given this further thought, did The Casino issue any white badges at all, and in particular, the ones with yellow trim? Can anyone confirm they actually bought a genuine white patch over the counter?  Now wondering if the white Keep The Faith patches with yellow trim are of the home-made variety. QED.

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Made the White with red trim and I have one ... and I believe someone has a green trim one , although I never saw one . 

This guy now has an interesting home made 1st Anniversary patch on .

6B404C6C-31C3-45DB-BA90-07F0EDE4A559.jpeg

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45 minutes ago, stevegods said:

Made the White with red trim and I have one ... and I believe someone has a green trim one , although I never saw one . 

This guy now has an interesting home made 1st Anniversary patch on .

6B404C6C-31C3-45DB-BA90-07F0EDE4A559.jpeg

Thanks for posting. So, am I right in saying the white patches with either yellow or green trim and red writing are home-made? They do look very professional for unofficial patches I have to say. Odd that the original maroon patch seems so scarce - I sold mine back in the late 70’s and have seen very few for sale since.

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No ,not home made at all , just different early options of what they where producing at the time . I bought this one back in the day . They made them in a couple of different sizes as well . I have a smaller red and gold one .

What the seller on eBay now is doing,  is making , or selling his copies of ones that he made back in the 80s , because he could never find the original to buy. 

If anyone else has an different variations of these , or any others , it would be interesting to see them . 

 

8EF14573-E939-4569-9A5C-1C8E8A89B13B.jpeg

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4 hours ago, stevegods said:

No ,not home made at all , just different early options of what they where producing at the time . I bought this one back in the day . They made them in a couple of different sizes as well . I have a smaller red and gold one .

What the seller on eBay now is doing,  is making , or selling his copies of ones that he made back in the 80s , because he could never find the original to buy. 

If anyone else has an different variations of these , or any others , it would be interesting to see them . 

 

8EF14573-E939-4569-9A5C-1C8E8A89B13B.jpeg

Just wondering why the torch oach says 1975 on it? Difnt it close in 72?

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17 minutes ago, geeselad said:

Just wondering why the torch oach says 1975 on it? Difnt it close in 72?

March 73. Unless the badge is referring to Chris Burtons ill fated Torch revival allnighter at the Village Disco in Stetford. This turned into a crap alldayer in an ultra modern(at the time) chrome and glass disco.

 

Paul

 

Edited by Paul r

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10 hours ago, stevegods said:

No ,not home made at all , just different early options of what they where producing at the time . I bought this one back in the day . They made them in a couple of different sizes as well . I have a smaller red and gold one .

What the seller on eBay now is doing,  is making , or selling his copies of ones that he made back in the 80s , because he could never find the original to buy. 

If anyone else has an different variations of these , or any others , it would be interesting to see them . 

 

8EF14573-E939-4569-9A5C-1C8E8A89B13B.jpeg

Never seen this red and gold version before - sure looks old. I wonder if it was a sort of prototype for the maroon nylon Keep The Faith patch that was available during the first year of Wigan Allniters?

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1 hour ago, stevegods said:

£103 ... for a home made patch ... 

Yep. Saw it on eBay, the seller mentioned it was a DIY job. I was beginning to think that these other home-made patches were indeed genuine as they look so exact, then this yellow one shows up. I think there are several of us Casino attendees who are collecting not just records, but other related memorabilia and it’s good there’s a forum like this to share our expertise.

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There are a few out there that collect , yes , and a band of growing new collectors .

I think it’s also been frownd upon by a few , especially Patch collecting , but to me it’s just another memory of what once was there and ties in with all the feeling and nostalgia from back in the day. 

Anyway the same guy has made an interesting , so called “ one off “ patch of what the Wigan 3rd Anniversary cloth patch ( 3 candles ) may look like as a woven job. And like you said , they are well made. 

Im sure it will end up going for a tidy sum but again just don’t like the private listing.  . 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, stevegods said:

There are a few out there that collect , yes , and a band of growing new collectors .

I think it’s also been frownd upon by a few , especially Patch collecting , but to me it’s just another memory of what once was there and ties in with all the feeling and nostalgia from back in the day. 

Anyway the same guy has made an interesting , so called “ one off “ patch of what the Wigan 3rd Anniversary cloth patch ( 3 candles ) may look like as a woven job. And like you said , they are well made. 

Im sure it will end up going for a tidy sum but again just don’t like the private listing.  . 

 

 

 

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Let ‘em frown. I’m collecting the patches as I had the first, third and fourth anniversary souvenirs and thought let’s put together a colourful display for the record room in the dream retirement home.

Any info on ‘unofficial mechandise’ is therefore welcome - good luck to these entrepreneurs but let’s have accurate listings and preferably not of the private sort.

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Just going on from this ....

Some interesting prices paid this week .

Yes , these where all really good condition patches, but I had thought that prices where taking a bit of a dip . I know these are all quite rare patches and really good examples , so I suppose it only take two bidders to want the same thing to make prices rise . 

 

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9 minutes ago, stevegods said:

Just going on from this ....

Some interesting prices paid this week .

Yes , these where all really good condition patches, but I had thought that prices where taking a bit of a dip . I know these are all quite rare patches and really good examples , so I suppose it only take two bidders to want the same thing to make prices rise . 

 

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Cheers Steve. Two of the above are destined for Crocker Towers. The other was very keenly faught over by two collectors chasing the elusive 3rd anniversary patch - I have been in touch with two Soul Source members about this collectible in the last year or so.

Also up for sale today was a home made Wigan lookalike Tommy Hunt patch with white trim. This brings the total of home-made patches to three varieties in the last month or so.

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Sorry thought it showed on my pic ... £75 ..

not sure about the Tommy Hunt ... in my opinion it’s the worst made of any of the ones this guy has made but maybe won’t stop it going for a few quid ... he has had quite a few more than 3 ... 

and went for £31 ... not a great patch but different I guess 

 

 

Edited by stevegods

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4 minutes ago, stevegods said:

Sorry thought it showed on my pic ... £75 ..

not sure about the Tommy Hunt ... in my opinion it’s the worst made of any of the ones this guy has made but maybe won’t stop it going for a few quid ... he has had quite a few more than 3 ... 

These home-made jobbies look pretty authentic. To get the Tommy Hunt profile accurate is quite tricky but he has achieved it. I think these unofficial versions were made a long time ago in contrast to the profusion of current replicas. The guy who has made them has copied the originals quite closely so I wonder if he has a textile industry background...or was just very good at needlepoint?

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21 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

These home-made jobbies look pretty authentic. To get the Tommy Hunt profile accurate is quite tricky but he has achieved it. I think these unofficial versions were made a long time ago in contrast to the profusion of current replicas. The guy who has made them has copied the originals quite closely so I wonder if he has a textile industry background...or was just very good at needlepoint?

You can get an up to date embroidery sewing machine and feed in a scanned image and it will reproduce it.  My sister owns one and has done a few things for me, all unrelated to soul, but the results were a lot better than I expected.

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1 hour ago, TattooDave said:

You can get an up to date embroidery sewing machine and feed in a scanned image and it will reproduce it.  My sister owns one and has done a few things for me, all unrelated to soul, but the results were a lot better than I expected.

Cheers Dave. Clever stuff eh? Might get myself one and start up a new company...Bootleg Badges I’ll call it... On the other hand, maybe I’ll use the time to play a few more records.

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On 30/10/2018 at 19:42, stevegods said:

And this one looks like it could go for a tidy sum , even being a hand made one off and not original .. 

 

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Factually wrong though.

Have heard Kev say on more than one occasion he didn't actually attend the first allnighter.

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10 minutes ago, chatty said:

Factually wrong though.

Have heard Kev say on more than one occasion he didn't actually attend the first allnighter.

That’s my take on it too. Kev was signed up later. There’s a thread on Soul Source that discusses the First Allnighter patch which makes for interesting reading.

The seller of the patch shown indicated it was home-made - you would be hard pressed to tell it apart from the genuine article. This of course makes it rather difficult for buyers of genuine memorabilia.

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You are right ..... and it’s very hard to tell the difference ... very close to the real thing .

Dave , Bootleg Badges ... start checking for website ULR’s ...  I can hear the sound of a couple of machines working overtime ... Repro Relics here we come 

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9 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Cheers Dave. Clever stuff eh? Might get myself one and start up a new company...Bootleg Badges I’ll call it... On the other hand, maybe I’ll use the time to play a few more records.

You could play the records as the machine does the work, once you set it up it does it automatically.  I had a couple of WW2 items done after the Hitler pillow case made a phenomenal amount of money.  They've not entered the market, as yet, but may do after I peg out, after all I used vintage cottons and linen.  These days it's very difficult to tell the difference if the bootlegger is worth his salt. 

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So Dave , you made a couple of WW11 items with as close to original cotton and linen as you could ... any pics of what you made ? 

I remember seeing / reading about Hitlers bedlinen that sold at auction ... went for over £2k I think ,  wouldn’t be my first idea of something to collect , but I guess some out there do. 

EC7315CA-A432-4829-B3D6-1113052A95FD.jpeg

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1 hour ago, stevegods said:

So Dave , you made a couple of WW11 items with as close to original cotton and linen as you could ... any pics of what you made ? 

I remember seeing / reading about Hitlers bedlinen that sold at auction ... went for over £2k I think ,  wouldn’t be my first idea of something to collect , but I guess some out there do. 

EC7315CA-A432-4829-B3D6-1113052A95FD.jpeg

They are at my father's in the UK, but are replicas of it, I bought the linen at auction in Germany, so it's of the right era.

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Just now, stevegods said:

Same seller has come up with this idea ... not sure ... but he certainly is trying :)

 

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Would be nice in pale blue like my membership.  I know there where a few different colours but always blue for me. Does anyone know how many colours the memberships came out in ? 

Steve 

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As far as I know Steve , they officially came out in two shades of Blue ... light and darker - Pink ladies - Red old original -and kind of two shades of Yellow  but might just be age ) 

Wonder if anyone else know different .. ? 

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51 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

Would be nice in pale blue like my membership.  I know there where a few different colours but always blue for me. Does anyone know how many colours the memberships came out in ? 

Steve 

Spotted this earlier and thought no confusing this with the real thing.

Early gents card was red then blue I think then yellow. Ladies card was green but there may have been others, not sure.

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47 minutes ago, stevegods said:

As far as I know Steve , they officially came out in two shades of Blue ... light and darker - Pink ladies - Red old original -and kind of two shades of Yellow  but might just be age ) 

Wonder if anyone else know different .. ? 

Ten shades of blue might have been nice! Sadly my blue card was stolen as I used to keep it in my wallet (just for the nostalgia!) at the time about 20 years back.

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15 minutes ago, stevegods said:

I have number 22 original Red ... and Pink Ladies .. and even back on the day fakes where made ..

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Steve. First went in june / july 75 after ordering membership from the blues and soul mag. Cant remember what the colour was, but i do remember that the 1st one destroyed itself in my pocket due to sweating my bollocks off dancing then had a pale blue one as a replacement. 

Steve 

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Interesting that the red one does not state ‘Gents’ on it. Did this one date from before the Northern years at The Casino?

I have two yellow cards in my name and two green cards belonging to the ex. I first had a blue card that I tore in two to let a mate in.

The number of us that had multiple membership cards makes a mockery of the often cited figure issued - 109,000 according to Richard’s recent book.

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