Blast from the past at St Ives all-nighters - Ginger / Soul Sam can’t remember ever hearing this at the Casino although I mostly went to the oldies nights - maybe just an East Coast thing always wondered who discovered it and played it first 👍🏻

Guest martyn 

Posted June 14, 2010

I only ever heard this played at EASC allnighters from late 76 / 77 right into the early 80s - not saying it never got plays away from St Ives & Peterborough , its just I don't recall hearing it any where else...........I know Hammie used to play it & (I think ) John Vincent used to spin it too .

3 minutes ago, Zoomsoulblue said:

Blast from the past at St Ives all-nighters - Ginger / Soul Sam can’t remember ever hearing this at the Casino although I mostly went to the oldies nights - maybe just an East Coast thing always wondered who discovered it and played it first 👍🏻

Started going station road in 75 until it closed don't remember this getting any plays, in fact don't think I have ever heard it before. Yet it sounds vaguely familiar 🤔 

I had this on a live cleethorpes winter gardens tape - mid 70’s allnighter - played during Nev Wherry’s spot - the month escapes me ! But I quite liked it at the time 😳

Boozer nearby called "seven wives" !!

New to me.

Can't see it taking off second time around.

Ed

To put this record into context I would say in 77 at St Ives it filled the dance floor just as much as some of the sounds broken there at the same time like Servicemen - Are You Angry, Billy Arnell - Tough Girl, etc.

There were a lot of records that seemed exclusive to St Ives at the time now forgotten, some good ( like Les Femme - Closer, Judy Hughes - Ocean of Emotion as examples), some indifferent, & others not so good (like Camp - Marching before elsewhere latched on ) 

I defy anyone to try & find a copy of Judy Hughes on Crusader by the way 🤑. Sam had it covered up as The Primettes 

It was a big nev wherry play for a few years around the Notts area think Rob smith also spun it 

3 minutes ago, Speedlimit said:

It was a big nev wherry play for a few years around the Notts area think Rob smith also spun it 

Yes, Nev was playing it at The Fleet as well 79ish when it was still a floor filler in that neck of the woods 

had a friend who had this used to put on tapes but don't remember it being played out 

Big tune for John Vincent

Further detail here

Andy

 

2 hours ago, Merve said:

To put this record into context I would say in 77 at St Ives it filled the dance floor just as much as some of the sounds broken there at the same time like Servicemen - Are You Angry, Billy Arnell - Tough Girl, etc.

There were a lot of records that seemed exclusive to St Ives at the time now forgotten, some good ( like Les Femme - Closer, Judy Hughes - Ocean of Emotion as examples), some indifferent, & others not so good (like Camp - Marching before elsewhere latched on ) 

I defy anyone to try & find a copy of Judy Hughes on Crusader by the way 🤑. Sam had it covered up as The Primettes 

Servicemen massive at Wakefield Unity, Billy Arnell at CWG. 

Never heard this Flamma....but Nev Wherry RIP did champion tracks like it. He played Bobby Goldsbro tracks to death at KGB.

Most underplayed records have had a second coming, so to speak.

Unless this is shit rare, somebody would have gave it a go....

Ed

2 hours ago, Andy Rix said:

Big tune for John Vincent

Further detail here

Andy

 

 

I have 2 tapes, both labelled    Peterborough    22/07/78   Vincent:

1. Syng McGowan - Flamma - Betty Boo

2. Sam Williams - Flamma - Temptones (Artic)

 

4 hours ago, Tomangoes said:

Servicemen massive at Wakefield Unity, Billy Arnell at CWG. 

Never heard this Flamma....but Nev Wherry RIP did champion tracks like it. He played Bobby Goldsbro tracks to death at KGB.

Most underplayed records have had a second coming, so to speak.

Unless this is shit rare, somebody would have gave it a go....

Ed

A Record of its time mate. Its never been super rare. I sold mine for £40 about 10 years ago 

3 hours ago, Simon T said:

I have 2 tapes, both labelled    Peterborough    22/07/78   Vincent:

1. Syng McGowan - Flamma - Betty Boo

2. Sam Williams - Flamma - Temptones (Artic)

 

Yep, but try telling people Betty Boo was played anywhere until Wigan 79 & you will end up in a row even if you do have it on tape. I made the mistake of saying I had it on a tape from St Ives 77 & the wrath of God came down on me 🤫

6 hours ago, Andy Rix said:

Big tune for John Vincent

Further detail here

Andy

 

Andy. Trust you are safe and well mate.

I don't ever recall John playing this at Wigan which given how big it was at Cleethorpes is a strange one. But he could have done and I just don't remember it , I mentioned earlier that it did sound familiar so maybe he did 🤔 

Ste 

27 minutes ago, Merve said:

A Record of its time mate. Its never been super rare. I sold mine for £40 about 10 years ago 

Yep, but try telling people Betty Boo was played anywhere until Wigan 79 & you will end up in a row even if you do have it on tape. I made the mistake of saying I had it on a tape from St Ives 77 & the wrath of God came down on me 🤫

Lol. Soul police 🚔.  Just because it was only released in 1979 on grapevine doesn't mean that it wasn't played earlier.  I definitely think it was played at Station Road late 77 possibly 78 before hand.  

Ste 

17 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

Lol. Soul police 🚔.  Just because it was only released in 1979 on grapevine doesn't mean that it wasn't played earlier.  I definitely think it was played at Station Road late 77 possibly 78 before hand.  

Ste 

TT

Edited November 26, 20204 yr by Merve
Messed up my text !

1 minute ago, Merve said:

TT

Ste,

Top right corner of the St Ives review from June 76....I'll probably get a good shoeing from the revisionist mafia for posting that  😉

58 minutes ago, Merve said:

Ste,

Top right corner of the St Ives review from June 76....I'll probably get a good shoeing from the revisionist mafia for posting that  😉

The soul police hate being proved wrong.

I love it. What gives them the right anyway 

8 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

The soul police hate being proved wrong.

I love it. What gives them the right anyway 

😇

I personally can't remember it from that nighter Elson is reviewing even though I was there, ( the sundries were probably good 😳), but it was big at St Ives before the following summer of 77

4 minutes ago, Merve said:

😇

I personally can't remember it from that nighter Elson is reviewing even though I was there, ( the sundries were probably good 😳), but it was big at St Ives before the following summer of 77

I wouldn't  argue with the summer of 77. I could be wrong about the late 77 at Wigan bit. 

I will try and find Richards book , I'm sure it was mentioned in that. 

Edited November 26, 20204 yr by Winsford Soul

2 hours ago, Merve said:

Ste,

Top right corner of the St Ives review from June 76....I'll probably get a good shoeing from the revisionist mafia for posting that  😉

Great Post....I remember my mate telling me about this massive cleggy tune by Betty boo...and that it was going to get played at Rovrum assembly rooms nappy night. Late 76 early 77, I'd say.

But hey, what about this I've never heard before, mentioned in that same black echoes issue...and I loved the attractions which is a proper forgotten oldie.

Ed

 

 

I joined the army in November of 1976 and went to St Ives and Peterborough nighters up to that date as well as Wigan and Cleethorpes regularly, and can remember Betty Boo being played at St Ives and Peterborough Wirrina, I can't remember the Flamma Sherman track, but then my mind isn't what it used to be.

4 hours ago, Merve said:

A Record of its time mate. Its never been super rare. I sold mine for £40 about 10 years ago 

Yep, but try telling people Betty Boo was played anywhere until Wigan 79 & you will end up in a row even if you do have it on tape. I made the mistake of saying I had it on a tape from St Ives 77 & the wrath of God came down on me 🤫

Also have tapes (from labeling & track list):

November 1978   Cleethorpes   Soul Sam

April           1979    St. Ives           Soul Sam

 

1 hour ago, Simon T said:

Also have tapes (from labeling & track list):

November 1978   Cleethorpes   Soul Sam

April           1979    St. Ives           Soul Sam

 

April 79 Sam would have been playing Patti Labelle - You Make it So Hard (ooo errr) 😆.....A quid then & a tenner now, one that hasn't kept up with inflation 

7 minutes ago, Merve said:

 - You Make it So Hard (ooo errr) 😆..... one that hasn't kept up with inflation 

Evidently not on the Viagra label (ooo errr)

Master Plan  -  Patti  -  Rita & Tiaras

 

18 hours ago, Simon T said:

 

Never quite got Master Plan. Played it again earlier to refresh my memory & it still didn't do anything for me. Great title though

22 hours ago, Simon T said:

Also have tapes (from labeling & track list):

November 1978   Cleethorpes   Soul Sam

April           1979    St. Ives           Soul Sam

 

1979 - St Ives All-nighters were already closed by local council / drug squad 

1979 - The Fleet Peterborough All-nighters maybe not sure if the Embankment was still running then as well ? 

On 26/11/2020 at 11:45, Tomangoes said:

 

Never heard this Flamma....

 

I found two mint copies of Flamma Sherman on S&B records. They were both in their paper company sleeves in a second hand record store for 50p each.

I had remembered it from when it was played the 70's. 

I had to sell both copies, as it's not a very good record at all!

Edited November 28, 20204 yr by Halogen

Down in the dumps was a regular play at St Ives at this time as well.

1 hour ago, Zoomsoulblue said:

1979 - St Ives All-nighters were already closed by local council / drug squad 

1979 - The Fleet Peterborough All-nighters maybe not sure if the Embankment was still running then as well ? 

my mistake. just put those cassettes in the green bin for collection tomorrow, whoever that recorded them and wrote the track listings was on mind altering drugs. Maybe should have 'digitize' them?

Edited November 27, 20204 yr by Simon T

2 hours ago, Zoomsoulblue said:

1979 - St Ives All-nighters were already closed by local council / drug squad 

1979 - The Fleet Peterborough All-nighters maybe not sure if the Embankment was still running then as well ? 

Correct. The DS shut the nighters in October 77.

BUT -Feb 1979 St Ives opened up again for all dayers. The tape would have been recorded at one of the dayers looking at the tracks listed.

Master Plan  -  Patti  -  Rita & Tiaras

His original post didn't say it was a nighter just 'St Ives'

Edited November 27, 20204 yr by Merve

13 minutes ago, Merve said:

Correct. The DS shut the nighters in October 77.

BUT -Feb 1979 St Ives opened up again for all dayers. The tape would have been recorded at one of the dayers looking at the tracks listed.

Master Plan  -  Patti  -  Rita & Tiaras

His original post didn't say it was a nighter just 'St Ives'

I think it stayed open until 82 . Sure I have a 3rd anniversary badge somewhere 

10 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

I think it stayed open until 82 . Sure I have a 3rd anniversary badge somewhere 

Yes I think you are right. The nighters started again under different managment in 84 if I remember right. The dayers & later nighters never quite got the vibe of 76/77 back though IMO

I remember seeing the ads in the echoes for St Ives.

It was never quite clear at first glance it was not in Cornwall....

Ed

I remember St Ives fondly as my first all nighter and went for 1st half of '76 as soon as I could drive (as it was in the middle of nowhere) before having to move to North of Scotland (father in Air Force posted) - I was 'devastated' ... until I found a little soul club in Aberdeen Center City Soul Club ... and who do you think frequented said club  ... only Mr Keb Darge, Billy Davidson (Southport weekender DJ), Steve Aggasild who had until recently the longest running soul show on radio, Irvi Milne and Speedy Allen .. so all wasn't lost and soon coach trips were running to Wigan!!!! ... happy days! ... and soon after all nighters were running in Aberdeen.

I returned to East Anglia in '95 and I'm not sure how well it's know that there still is, and always has been, a big soul scene here. Kettering, Wellingborough, Bedford, Northampton, Peterborough, Cambridge - seems like we always play second fiddle to the North, when the 'big' venues are declared - St. Ives is rarely mentioned. ... but we did have some of the top DJs Soul Sam, John Vincent, Ginger & Eddie, Brian Rae a well as locals Tony Dellar, Hammie, Tony Warot and others (did Kev Draper also appear?) and had the best of all worlds as Mecca, Wigan and Cleethorpes tunes were all played side by side.  The top tunes I recall from my time were Maurice Williams, Nate Evans, Kenny Smith (and many others I've forgotten about), it was also the  time of instrumentals like Falbala, The Flasher, The Champion, The Gig, Disco Connection etc., others I remember getting spins then were Prince George, Rimshots, Moments (9 times), East Coast Connection, and I remember Today's People being hammered to death! - not many of these would get a look in these days but we were young!

Edited November 28, 20204 yr by Soulstrutter

17 hours ago, Soulstrutter said:

but we did have some of the top DJs Soul Sam, John Vincent, Ginger & Eddie, Brian Rae a well as locals Tony Dellar, Hammie, Tony Warot and others (did Kev Draper also appear?) and had the best of all worlds as Mecca, Wigan and Cleethorpes tunes were all played side by side.  The top tunes I recall from my time were Maurice Williams, Nate Evans, Kenny Smith (and many others I've forgotten about), it was also the  time of instrumentals like Falbala, The Flasher, The Champion, The Gig, Disco Connection etc., others I remember getting spins then were Prince George, Rimshots, Moments (9 times), East Coast Connection, and I remember Today's People being hammered to death! - not many of these would get a look in these days but we were young!

Early 76 at St Ives just as I remember it too. Top post.👏

This was a great time for us Northant’s crowd.

St ives, Peterbough and Central Hall Kettering where I distinctly remember car wash getting new release plays.Some great times had and some groundbreaking collections in the area as well.We all know now it weren’t all up t’north 😂

49 minutes ago, Tricky said:

This was a great time for us Northant’s crowd.

St ives, Peterbough and Central Hall Kettering where I distinctly remember car wash getting new release plays.Some great times had and some groundbreaking collections in the area as well.We all know now it weren’t all up t’north 😂

Too right Tricky.. and East Anglia collections never got the credit they deserved !! For example.. when only 3 copies know at the time of the Magnetics on Bonny.. All three resided within a 50 mile radius of Huntingdon !!!

You have the likes of Glen Bellamy who has proved a constant source of tunes he first turned up and that the DJ's he sold them too throughout the decades went on to establish them as mainstream.. John Anderson of course.. And many others who's collections over the years would be the envy of any collector world wide..

Unsung heroes the lot of 'em

5 hours ago, Ficklefingers said:

Too right Tricky.. and East Anglia collections never got the credit they deserved !! For example.. when only 3 copies know at the time of the Magnetics on Bonny.. All three resided within a 50 mile radius of Huntingdon !!!

You have the likes of Glen Bellamy who has proved a constant source of tunes he first turned up and that the DJ's he sold them too throughout the decades went on to establish them as mainstream.. John Anderson of course.. And many others who's collections over the years would be the envy of any collector world wide..

Unsung heroes the lot of 'em

I remember hearing Rug play Lester Tipton as an unknown in 77 at The Rock in Rushden & Baja Marimba Band on the same night before anyone knew them. Both got plays as newies at St Ives in the following weeks. OK Baja Marimba Band a tune of its times (Mike Post-Feelings) but Lester Tipton still on most peoples want's list.

As Bedford lad - Hats off to you Northants/ Hunts Fellas

 

Edited November 29, 20204 yr by Merve

Yes greatly missed is Rug.

Had a few spots at St Ives along with Wilksy!

Rugs tunes at the Vic in Rushden at this time included Lester Tipton,Montclair’s,Virginia Blakeley,Pamela Beaty,Limitations and a cheapie that I have loved ever since and occasionally play out Gaye and Terrell What you gave me on Tamla.Well ahead of the curve.

2 hours ago, Merve said:

I remember hearing Rug play Lester Tipton as an unknown in 77 at The Rock in Rushden & Baja Marimba Band on the same night before anyone knew them. Both got plays as newies at St Ives in the following weeks. OK Baja Marimba Band a tune of its times (Mike Post-Feelings) but Lester Tipton still on most peoples want's list.

As Bedford lad - Hats off to you Northants/ Hunts Fellas

 

Rug sold Lester Tipton to John Poole at a St Ives nighter 

3 hours ago, Speedlimit said:

Rug sold Lester Tipton to John Poole at a St Ives nighter 

 

3 hours ago, Tricky said:

Yes greatly missed is Rug.

Had a few spots at St Ives along with Wilksy!

Rugs tunes at the Vic in Rushden at this time included Lester Tipton,Montclair’s,Virginia Blakeley,Pamela Beaty,Limitations and a cheapie that I have loved ever since and occasionally play out Gaye and Terrell What you gave me on Tamla.Well ahead of the curve.

Ahh The Vic, another great soul night I used to frequent along with The Windmill (slightly earlier I think ?)

23 hours ago, Merve said:

I remember hearing Rug play Lester Tipton as an unknown in 77 at The Rock in Rushden & Baja Marimba Band on the same night before anyone knew them. Both got plays as newies at St Ives in the following weeks. OK Baja Marimba Band a tune of its times (Mike Post-Feelings) but Lester Tipton still on most peoples want's list.

As Bedford lad - Hats off to you Northants/ Hunts Fellas

 

MY Lester Tipton was purchased in either late 77 or early 78 along with matching labels Al Williams.. Soul Bowl possibly ??

Them were the days lol

5 minutes ago, Ficklefingers said:

MY Lester Tipton was purchased in either late 77 or early 78 along with matching labels Al Williams.. Soul Bowl possibly ??

Them were the days lol

Actually.. thinking about it it must have been early 78 'cos I was still living in New Mexico in 77

Just had a what's app - from Brian Rae who said about the record - he can only remember it being played a few times at Wigan - either K. Minshull or J Vincent - not sure who ??

On 26/11/2020 at 17:18, Merve said:

TT

Only just reading this topic. 

What a great photo of Derek Allen 👍

i remember Flamma Sherman ,   vividly.    a Grantham lad, played it at our local do's.    master plan,  i remember that too.    Phantom janitor (Deadbeats,  awful record) and others.    77 was when i started,  so these records were a part of that.   anyone remember  Teddy Pendergrass  'you cant hide from yourself'  and The Emotions 'best of my love' getting spins  ? 

11 hours ago, Ian Parker said:

i remember Flamma Sherman ,   vividly.    a Grantham lad, played it at our local do's.    master plan,  i remember that too.    Phantom janitor (Deadbeats,  awful record) and others.    77 was when i started,  so these records were a part of that.   anyone remember  Teddy Pendergrass  'you cant hide from yourself'  and The Emotions 'best of my love' getting spins  ? 

Don't remember The Emotions getting played but Smokey Robinson-Theme from the Big Time was huge at St Ives around that time as a new release as was  Centre City 

On 25/11/2020 at 20:50, 25miles said:

Boozer nearby called "seven wives" !!

Yes near the fire station 

i lived  in Huntingdon 5 miles away