I have, due to some of the conversations on here, where i often some across a 'live and let live' or 'que sera' attitude, started to try to write down what i remember as the driving ethos, or unwritten rules of the scene. Perhaps rules is the wrong term, as it was stuff that was implicit,  but anyway.

Obviously, mine are based on my own experience and observations at a multitude of venues over the decades.

 So, is it possible to get some contributions (not que sera) that might outline a short retrospective manifesto (stuff that if you knew you knew) that the scene was initially built upon: particularly the space of allnighters, music, and dancing. They can be things that derive from a NO or a YES approach.

I am trying to establish a base, a starting point,  from which to look at what has changed or been forgotten, lost or re-imagined.

I'll start off with a couple of badly worded attempts, but i really would like some input.

 

Manifesto

• Music was the engine and newly discovered 60’s and 70’s 45’s were the fuel that kept it running.
• DJs were only celebrities if the music they played was recognised and danced to by the punters. There were no laurels to rest on.
• It was a part of the excitement to hear and dance to new 45's that were unknown to us.

 

 

 

 

Thanks in advance. I am writing on this at the moment and welcome the views on this.....

Edited September 28, 20231 yr by Paul-s

Big records were dropped from playlists at all-nighters if they were pressed or released and became readily available.

Do not sell bootlegs/pressings and pretend they are originals!

It was frowned upon to dance with a pint of beer/bottle etc in your hand on the Northern Soul dancefloor. ( Kinda thing people do at wedding receptions and divvy pub dancefloors)

It was frowned upon to start doing Strictly/ballroom type dancing, with your partner at a Northern Soul event!

Don't try and sell baking powder and other duff things at all-nighters.

Hope these suggestions are some good and what you're looking for!

Edited October 2, 20231 yr by Solidsoul

1 hour ago, Solidsoul said:

Big records were dropped from playlists at all-nighters if they were pressed or released and became readily available.

Do not sell bootlegs/pressings and pretend they are originals!

It was frowned upon to dance with a pint of beer/bottle etc in your hand on the Northern Soul dancefloor. ( Kinda thing people do at wedding receptions and divvy pub dancefloors)

It was frowned upon to start doing Strictly/ballroom dancing, with your partner at a Northern Soul event!

Don't try and sell baking powder and other duff things at all-nighters.

Hope these suggestions are some good and what you're looking for!

Thanks.......good points....

Early 70s Manchester it was right of passage stuff " fit in or fcuk off." many of the venues and characters were downright scary.                                      The current trend for nostalgia has re-written the history and sanitised the the whole thing to such an extent that it's unrecognisable. 

The whole point and attraction for me was that there were no rules. 

20 hours ago, Mark S said:

Early 70s Manchester it was right of passage stuff " fit in or fcuk off." many of the venues and characters were downright scary.                                      The current trend for nostalgia has re-written the history and sanitised the the whole thing to such an extent that it's unrecognisable. 

The whole point and attraction for me was that there were no rules. 

But within that no rules scenario, there were implicit understandings and if you, for instance danced with a pint in your hand, things were said for instance. If you went up to a woman on the dance floor and danced with her, invaded her space etc.....

19 minutes ago, Paul-s said:

But within that no rules scenario, there were implicit understandings and if you, for instance danced with a pint in your hand, things were said for instance. If you went up to a woman on the dance floor and danced with her, invaded her space etc.....

You're right and even within the nostalgia scene that understanding exists by and large. The main difference now is the need for publicity from You tube channels and daft dance tutorials. 

Puts me off going out if I am going to be filmed by some idiot. 

So a definate rule for me would be no publicity and no cameras 

If someone had stuck a camera in your face at the Casino, you would have rightly received a warning and then a smack on the nose. Only later did this become the norm. Even now i will anyone with a camera to go away.

4 hours ago, harrythedog said:

If someone had stuck a camera in your face at the Casino, you would have rightly received a warning and then a smack on the nose. Only later did this become the norm. Even now i will anyone with a camera to go away.

Yes. thats what im talking about. You knew and you know...

On 28/09/2023 at 15:43, Mark S said:

 

The whole point and attraction for me was that there were no rules. 

The thing is though, the rules were unwritten - there were principles and folks conformed...

dress code for lads and lasses

not dancing on the dance-floor if you didn’t know what you were doing

apologise to someone you accidentally bumped into on the dance floor

shake hands with old contacts

applaud a record if it was well received NB DJ’s never were celebrities

no violence ie fisticuffs inside the venue

use talc on the dance-floor but sparingly

not touching other people’s bags or coats

sporting patches of clubs actually visited

I hope this meets your approval Paul?

25 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

The thing is though, the rules were unwritten - there were principles and folks conformed...

dress code for lads and lasses

not dancing on the dance-floor if you didn’t know what you were doing

apologise to someone you accidentally bumped into on the dance floor

shake hands with old contacts

applaud a record if it was well received NB DJ’s never were celebrities

no violence ie fisticuffs inside the venue

use talc on the dance-floor but sparingly

not touching other people’s bags or coats

sporting patches of clubs actually visited

I hope this meets your approval Paul?

Never really thought of these as rules just manners and respect thats  what set us apart from the normal night club crowd. For me it allways felt a bit anarchic and very exclusive, the fact that we didn't accept the dross that everybody else was demanding made it all the more special 

6 hours ago, harrythedog said:

If someone had stuck a camera in your face at the Casino, you would have rightly received a warning and then a smack on the nose. Only later did this become the norm. Even now i will anyone with a camera to go away.

When Red Saunders turned up at the Casino in 76 , and the following Sunday Times supplement was printed , there did seem to be a lot more space on the main room dance floor on the night , but not a lot of room in Mr Ms , not sure if it was because most of the kids in the room where at a sleep over, and didn't want to be found out ,off their heads and didn't want Mum & Dad to see them in that state , or possibly just plain and simple fxxk off leave us alone .

I know where I was and the rest of my fellow soulies  , upstairs out of site , not wanting any part of it , that was 50 years ago , I know we've been over this a 100 times , but promoters are to blame , they want to make money so they publisize, they invite the reporters even going back to the early days Dave Godin , did anyone ever tell him to do one , No.

So maybe it's time to publisize by word of mouth, just like we the punters did in the old days or the relevant associated outlets , noticeboards etc ?

 

 

Edited September 29, 20231 yr by Happy Feet

1 hour ago, Frankie Crocker said:

The thing is though, the rules were unwritten - there were principles and folks conformed...

dress code for lads and lasses

not dancing on the dance-floor if you didn’t know what you were doing

apologise to someone you accidentally bumped into on the dance floor

shake hands with old contacts

applaud a record if it was well received NB DJ’s never were celebrities

no violence ie fisticuffs inside the venue

use talc on the dance-floor but sparingly

not touching other people’s bags or coats

sporting patches of clubs actually visited

I hope this meets your approval Paul?

Mate, this is good stuff and my approval does not count. I am genuinely trying to get a broad idea of what was understood as a way of being. Mostly because it seems to be becoming lost from what i'm seeing.

34 minutes ago, Happy Feet said:

When Red Saunders turned up at the Casino in 76 , and the following Sunday Times supplement was printed , there did seem to be a lot more space on the main room dance floor on the night , but not a lot of room in Mr Ms , not sure if it was because most of the kids in the room where at a sleep over, and didn't want to be found out ,off their heads and didn't want Mum & Dad to see them in that state , or possibly just plain and simple fxxk off leave us alone .

I know where I was and the rest of my fellow soulies  , upstairs out of site , not wanting any part of it , that was 50 years ago , I know we've been over this a 100 times , but promoters are to blame , they want to make money so they publisize, they invite the reporters even going back to the early days Dave Godin , did anyone ever tell him to do one , No.

So maybe it's time to publisize by word of mouth, just like we the punters did in the old days or the relevant associated outlets , noticeboards etc ?

 

 

A good perspective, thanks.

1 hour ago, Happy Feet said:

When Red Saunders turned up at the Casino in 76 , and the following Sunday Times supplement was printed , there did seem to be a lot more space on the main room dance floor on the night , but not a lot of room in Mr Ms , not sure if it was because most of the kids in the room where at a sleep over, and didn't want to be found out ,off their heads and didn't want Mum & Dad to see them in that state , or possibly just plain and simple fxxk off leave us alone .

I know where I was and the rest of my fellow soulies  , upstairs out of site , not wanting any part of it , that was 50 years ago , I know we've been over this a 100 times , but promoters are to blame , they want to make money so they publisize, they invite the reporters even going back to the early days Dave Godin , did anyone ever tell him to do one , No.

So maybe it's time to publisize by word of mouth, just like we the punters did in the old days or the relevant associated outlets , noticeboards etc ?

 

 

It’s fortunate the Sunday Times ran the article at the time - it’s probably the best written record of the contemporary phenomena in 1976. I don’t recall anyone complaining at the time and it wasn’t as though hundreds of Sunday Times readers invaded The Casino. The Footsee Top of The Pops thing did a lot to encourage a new wave of visitors to Wigan, so perhaps blame the Pye Disco Demand label people for contributing to a wider public awareness.

1 hour ago, Happy Feet said:

When Red Saunders turned up at the Casino in 76 , and the following Sunday Times supplement was printed , there did seem to be a lot more space on the main room dance floor on the night , but not a lot of room in Mr Ms , not sure if it was because most of the kids in the room where at a sleep over, and didn't want to be found out ,off their heads and didn't want Mum & Dad to see them in that state , or possibly just plain and simple fxxk off leave us alone .

I know where I was and the rest of my fellow soulies  , upstairs out of site , not wanting any part of it , that was 50 years ago , I know we've been over this a 100 times , but promoters are to blame , they want to make money so they publisize, they invite the reporters even going back to the early days Dave Godin , did anyone ever tell him to do one , No.

So maybe it's time to publisize by word of mouth, just like we the punters did in the old days or the relevant associated outlets , noticeboards etc ?

 

 

Was it when Jr walker was on?

10 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

It’s fortunate the Sunday Times ran the article at the time - it’s probably the best written record of the contemporary phenomena in 1976. I don’t recall anyone complaining at the time and it wasn’t as though hundreds of Sunday Times readers invaded The Casino. The Footsee Top of The Pops thing did a lot to encourage a new wave of visitors to Wigan, so perhaps blame the Pye Disco Demand label people for contributing to a wider public awareness.

Fortunate that perhaps most of the youth at the time would never had read the Sunday Times , but  the secret was out and in the mainstream nonetheless, prior to the article it was the soul based magazines that only spoke of it , is what I was getting at , and then the floodgates burst open . There was definitely a bit more space than usual on the dance floor in the main room on the night in question .

As a Manifesto suggestion less promotion in the mainstream is what I was suggesting.

Edited September 30, 20231 yr by Happy Feet

5 minutes ago, Mithras said:

Was it when Jr walker was on?

1977 , I think Jr Walker played at the Casino 

It was May 76 found the add from blues and soul was there that night

 

 

10 hours ago, Happy Feet said:

When Red Saunders turned up at the Casino in 76 , and the following Sunday Times supplement was printed , there did seem to be a lot more space on the main room dance floor on the night , but not a lot of room in Mr Ms , not sure if it was because most of the kids in the room where at a sleep over, and didn't want to be found out ,off their heads and didn't want Mum & Dad to see them in that state , or possibly just plain and simple fxxk off leave us alone .

I know where I was and the rest of my fellow soulies  , upstairs out of site , not wanting any part of it , that was 50 years ago , I know we've been over this a 100 times , but promoters are to blame , they want to make money so they publisize, they invite the reporters even going back to the early days Dave Godin , did anyone ever tell him to do one , No.

So maybe it's time to publisize by word of mouth, just like we the punters did in the old days or the relevant associated outlets , noticeboards etc ?

 

 

Was it when Jr walker was on?

1 hour ago, Mithras said:

It was May 76 found the add from blues and soul was there that night

 

 

Was it when Jr walker was on?

No. The Sunday times supplement was issued February 76 , there's a copy for sale priced £35. You can check it out via Google.

Interesting  as I remember getting  photographed but can't place when

We thought  at the time it was the DS

Personally, I'd like to ban phone use altogether. Doesn't have to be Draconian, a few signs and info on flyers ect. We won't be the first

https://mixmag.net/read/fabric-london-bans-photography-video-phones-news

 

Edited September 30, 20231 yr by Geeselad

7 hours ago, Mithras said:

Interesting  as I remember getting  photographed but can't place when

We thought  at the time it was the DS

🤣😂- What about the time you did two nighters on the trot Fri & Sat then thought the DS were following you home - all the way from Wigan or Wakefield- back to Huntingdon- then peering out the window through the nets to see if they’ve gone 🤪🤪😳😳😳😳😳😳😳

🤣😂

44 minutes ago, Geeselad said:

Personally, I'd like to bag phone use altogether. Doesn't have to be Draconian, a few signs and info on flyers ect. We won't be the first

https://mixmag.net/read/fabric-london-bans-photography-video-phones-news

 

I have asked people not to photograph me but I feel I shouldn't have to. I don't get out often and dont want the night spoiling by videos or photos. One of the YouTube contributers has a bit on his videos where you can request to be excluded after the event cheeky git 

1 hour ago, Zoomsoulblue said:

🤣😂- What about the time you did two nighters on the trot Fri & Sat then thought the DS were following you home - all the way from Wigan or Wakefield- back to Huntingdon- then peering out the window through the nets to see if they’ve gone 🤪🤪😳😳😳😳😳😳😳

🤣😂

Imagine a Bank Holiday , minimum 3 x Nighters & Fri. Sat. Sun. &  possibly 2 x Alldayers in-between 💊💊😳💊😳💊😳😳😳 😂 , travelling up and down , North , South, Midlands , East and West , Paranoia nightmare for sure , but loved every minute 😂😂😂

Oh yes great times for  sure still 

On 30/09/2023 at 20:55, Happy Feet said:

Imagine a Bank Holiday , minimum 3 x Nighters & Fri. Sat. Sun. &  possibly 2 x Alldayers in-between 💊💊😳💊😳💊😳😳😳 😂 , travelling up and down , North , South, Midlands , East and West , Paranoia nightmare for sure , but loved every minute 😂😂😂

1977 Queens Silver Jubilee 2 x nighters and 2 x dayers. Great weekend. 

On 28/09/2023 at 15:43, Mark S said:

Early 70s Manchester it was right of passage stuff " fit in or fcuk off." many of the venues and characters were downright scary.                                      The current trend for nostalgia has re-written the history and sanitised the the whole thing to such an extent that it's unrecognisable. 

The whole point and attraction for me was that there were no rules. 

Got it in one ....and hence you can't really replicate the past with a nostalgia focus ...rules , rules and damn rules

On 28/09/2023 at 12:29, Paul-s said:

I have, due to some of the conversations on here, where i often some across a 'live and let live' or 'que sera' attitude, started to try to write down what i remember as the driving ethos, or unwritten rules of the scene. Perhaps rules is the wrong term, as it was stuff that was implicit,  but anyway.

Obviously, mine are based on my own experience and observations at a multitude of venues over the decades.

 So, is it possible to get some contributions (not que sera) that might outline a short retrospective manifesto (stuff that if you knew you knew) that the scene was initially built upon: particularly the space of allnighters, music, and dancing. They can be things that derive from a NO or a YES approach.

I am trying to establish a base, a starting point,  from which to look at what has changed or been forgotten, lost or re-imagined.

I'll start off with a couple of badly worded attempts, but i really would like some input.

 

Manifesto

• Music was the engine and newly discovered 60’s and 70’s 45’s were the fuel that kept it running.
• DJs were only celebrities if the music they played was recognised and danced to by the punters. There were no laurels to rest on.
• It was a part of the excitement to hear and dance to new 45's that were unknown to us.

 

 

 

 

Thanks in advance. I am writing on this at the moment and welcome the views on this.....

Interesting and really to the point...
 very valid observations mate and worthy of discussion 

Edited October 2, 20231 yr by Jez Jones
mistake

here's one Paul.

You can't have it both ways fella.

i.e a Manefesto of unwritten rules and then when challenged in a topic you make that challenge Public. Especially if the person on the receiving end of the perceived 'slant' feels it's just plain unjust.

another of the unwritten rules of yesteryear, sort it out.

what happens in PM should stay in PM.

23 hours ago, Kenb said:

here's one Paul.

You can't have it both ways fella.

i.e a Manefesto of unwritten rules and then when challenged in a topic you make that challenge Public. Especially if the person on the receiving end of the perceived 'slant' feels it's just plain unjust.

another of the unwritten rules of yesteryear, sort it out.

what happens in PM should stay in PM.

That's kind of non-sensical Ken, the forum is an area of open debate and I have often been attacked on here and never felt it necessary to send PM's because I stand by what I say and can articulate my point of view (whether its right or wrong). Sending keyboard warrior threats (badly written) is totally infantile and not a challenge at all because I'm not ten years old in a school playground.

The link to unwritten rules of yesteryear here is a bit tenuous mate. If you can't say it here regarding an open topic, then just be quiet.

2 minutes ago, Paul-s said:

That's kind of non-sensical Ken, the forum is an area of open debate and I have often been attacked on here and never felt it necessary to send PM's because I stand by what I say and can articulate my point of view (whether its right or wrong). Sending keyboard warrior threats (badly written) is totally infantile and not a challenge at all because I'm not ten years old in a school playground.

The link to unwritten rules of yesteryear here is a bit tenuous mate. If you can't say it here regarding an open topic, then just be quiet.

I'll leave it there...because unlike you i don't have to win

best

ken

26 minutes ago, Kenb said:

I'll leave it there...because unlike you i don't have to win

best

ken

Succinctly and perfectly put Ken 👍

this matter has been moderated by the site, ask all member to now keep to the original topic

if you do wish to discuss any aspect of moderation then do feel free to start or use the existing topic in our freebasing forum as per our forum guidelines

thanks

 

two posts concerning moderation have now been moved into an existing topic in our freebasing forum

3 hours ago, Kenb said:

I'll leave it there...because unlike you i don't have to win

best

ken

Good move....

3 hours ago, Geoffp said:

Succinctly and perfectly put Ken 👍

poetic if i might say so...

Just to say thanks to all those who contributed positively to the discussion, and some really useful stuff in there, particularly the comments about the constant filming that goes on nowadays in venues and then ends up on line.

I'm interested to know peoples thoughts about why a lot of punters nowadays feel the need to constantly film themselves dancing (many do that on an empty or full dance floor) and to curate their soul-fullness online: in a kind of "this is how you do it, or how it should be done way". 

For instance, If you do this, are you actually 'in the moment and music' or performing?

Thanks

Paul

I imagine, it's the same as every other area of modern life, its easy to pick your phone up and follow the crowd.  No different to filming concerts, sports events etc.

Not something I ever do, but plenty do, for me it spoils the moment.

1 hour ago, Paul-s said:

Just to say thanks to all those who contributed positively to the discussion, and some really useful stuff in there, particularly the comments about the constant filming that goes on nowadays in venues and then ends up on line.

I'm interested to know peoples thoughts about why a lot of punters nowadays feel the need to constantly film themselves dancing (many do that on an empty or full dance floor) and to curate their soul-fullness online: in a kind of "this is how you do it, or how it should be done way". 

For instance, If you do this, are you actually 'in the moment and music' or performing?

Thanks

Paul

Interesting point around digital privacy arises here....

1 hour ago, Jez Jones said:

Interesting point around digital privacy arises here....

Yes, one member mentioned a guy who puts stuff up on YouTube with a note that if you don't want to be in it contact him.

But, how do you know you are in it? 

I think promoters could put a notice telling people to request permission 'before' filming people. Or, even better, don't allow it and everyone get down together dancing, not performing and building some memories (in the soul not on film).

But, i'm interested in other opinions, thats just mine....

Not my idea of Northern Soul always wanted it to be a bit elitist myself but unfortunately the genie is out of the lamp and all and sundry have leapt on the bandwagon. 

They do seem to be enjoying themselves on most of the vids I have watched and to those partaking that's the whole point a good weekend getting pi**ed and dancing and reliving it later on YouTube. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

40 minutes ago, Shinehead said:

Not my idea of Northern Soul always wanted it to be a bit elitist myself but unfortunately the genie is out of the lamp and all and sundry have leapt on the bandwagon. 

They do seem to be enjoying themselves on most of the vids I have watched and to those partaking that's the whole point a good weekend getting pi**ed and dancing and reliving it later on YouTube. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My thoughts exactly! It would be SO good if we could stuff that genie back into his bottle.........

Edited October 13, 20231 yr by Kathryn Magson

not fond of camera's at venues at all. At least 'Skippy Sue' (R.I.P) would ask first.

i've seen them held up to Shazam 'tunes' which seems a bit over the top.

On 30/09/2023 at 19:39, Zoomsoulblue said:

🤣😂- What about the time you did two nighters on the trot Fri & Sat then thought the DS were following you home - all the way from Wigan or Wakefield- back to Huntingdon- then peering out the window through the nets to see if they’ve gone 🤪🤪😳😳😳😳😳😳😳

🤣😂

that happened to me zoom  following a fri oldies and a sat nighter !!  what a coincidence 🫣

36 minutes ago, Kenb said:

not fond of camera's at venues at all. At least 'Skippy Sue' (R.I.P) would ask first.

i've seen them held up to Shazam 'tunes' which seems a bit over the top.

Thats a new one to me Ken, the  Shazam thing.

Really strange as a new (lazy?) way that people think will create knowledge, but also mostly out of place on the scene in terms of it not being able to recognise rarer tunes or lesser played I imagine.

6 hours ago, Paul-s said:

Just to say thanks to all those who contributed positively to the discussion, and some really useful stuff in there, particularly the comments about the constant filming that goes on nowadays in venues and then ends up on line.

I'm interested to know peoples thoughts about why a lot of punters nowadays feel the need to constantly film themselves dancing (many do that on an empty or full dance floor) and to curate their soul-fullness online: in a kind of "this is how you do it, or how it should be done way". 

For instance, If you do this, are you actually 'in the moment and music' or performing?

Thanks

Paul

A really good point to raise Paul. Much of the filming seems to be done from the sidelines rather than selfie-style. Posting on social-media is therefore often done by A. N. Other featuring friends or just the action at the time. This is hugely intrusive and often features embarrassing scenes that individuals might prefer not to be screened. I think it’s high time for venues to ban mobile-phone filming without consent of those being filmed. I would go as far as to say that the incessant filming and posting is actually Trashing The Faith, exposing what was an previously underground scene to the masses who then mock the dancing, clothing etc. The cult of narcissism is perpetuated by all of this Facebook video posting - a ban on filming would reduce the vanity on show but as mentioned above, the genie is well and truly out of the bottle and will be difficult to put back...

A really good point Frankie , "once it's out there" it's out there,  but I get the feeling that's what these promoters encourage. I hope I'm wrong .

2 hours ago, Martin L said:

that happened to me zoom  following a fri oldies and a sat nighter !!  what a coincidence 🫣

I don't know why they need to, most post their playlist, seconds after their set is finished 😂

Edited October 13, 20231 yr by Geeselad

53 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

A really good point to raise Paul. Much of the filming seems to be done from the sidelines rather than selfie-style. Posting on social-media is therefore often done by A. N. Other featuring friends or just the action at the time. This is hugely intrusive and often features embarrassing scenes that individuals might prefer not to be screened. I think it’s high time for venues to ban mobile-phone filming without consent of those being filmed. I would go as far as to say that the incessant filming and posting is actually Trashing The Faith, exposing what was an previously underground scene to the masses who then mock the dancing, clothing etc. The cult of narcissism is perpetuated by all of this Facebook video posting - a ban on filming would reduce the vanity on show but as mentioned above, the genie is well and truly out of the bottle and will be difficult to put back...

Spot on, it is out of the bottle but a cultural change is possible and it starts with conversations like this. 

1 hour ago, Frankie Crocker said:

A really good point to raise Paul. Much of the filming seems to be done from the sidelines rather than selfie-style. Posting on social-media is therefore often done by A. N. Other featuring friends or just the action at the time. This is hugely intrusive and often features embarrassing scenes that individuals might prefer not to be screened. I think it’s high time for venues to ban mobile-phone filming without consent of those being filmed. I would go as far as to say that the incessant filming and posting is actually Trashing The Faith, exposing what was an previously underground scene to the masses who then mock the dancing, clothing etc. The cult of narcissism is perpetuated by all of this Facebook video posting - a ban on filming would reduce the vanity on show but as mentioned above, the genie is well and truly out of the bottle and will be difficult to put back...

Thanks. Very well put...