On 05/01/2025 at 15:57, Dylan said:

Even after Stafford the scene continued to evolve.  Labels like tuska, the more gritty funky southern soul etc that maybe didn’t break through previously.

 

the whole explosion of low rider sounds which was probably down to CD swaps and the use of the internet.

Fully agree on the internet having a huge impact.

‘Low rider sounds’… Manship used this term a year or two ago…I thought it referred to weak B sides that wouldn’t be acceptable at a public venue, but I’m still none the wiser.

9 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

‘Low rider sounds’… Manship used this term a year or two ago…I thought it referred to weak B sides that wouldn’t be acceptable at a public venue, but I’m still none the wiser.

Low rider refers to.the modified car scene in South America where they alter the suspension so the car goes lower.

The music is often slower or the b sides of songs known on northern scene

There are a few documentaries on YouTube 

35 minutes ago, davidwapples said:

Low rider refers to.the modified car scene in South America where they alter the suspension so the car goes lower.

The music is often slower or the b sides of songs known on northern scene

There are a few documentaries on YouTube 

think ya may be a few miles off there

a quick non soul source catch up  if you need it could be

ace release notes...for 'this is low rider soul'

https://www.acerecords.co.uk/this-is-lowrider-soul

or the various topics on here over the years

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/search/?q="low rider"&quick=1&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy

Ah ok

I just went by the YouTube videos that said the lowrider cars were big scene in South America

 

Sorry but thanks for clearing it up

4 minutes ago, davidwapples said:

Ah ok

I just went by the YouTube videos that said the lowrider cars were big scene in South America

 

Sorry but thanks for clearing it up

There is also a big Low Rider scene in Los Angeles.

6 minutes ago, Wheelsville1 said:

There is also a big Low Rider scene in Los Angeles.

as said here...

4 hours ago, Mike said:

think ya may be a few miles off there

a quick non soul source catch up  if you need it could be

ace release notes...for 'this is low rider soul'

https://www.acerecords.co.uk/this-is-lowrider-soul

or the various topics on here over the years

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/search/?q="low rider"&quick=1&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy

 

ok have split the 'low rider' postsfrom the most recent jm auction topic

 

 

here are

 

22 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

‘Low rider sounds’… Manship used this term a year or two ago…I thought it referred to weak B sides that wouldn’t be acceptable at a public venue, but I’m still none the wiser.

Not sure I’d refer to them as weak.  For many they are as good or better than the dancers.

some fantastic soul music some are mega rare and highly collectable.  I’m a bit surprised you haven’t had more exposure at least to the term if not the music ?

 

 

25 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Not sure I’d refer to them as weak.  For many they are as good or better than the dancers.

some fantastic soul music some are mega rare and highly collectable.  I’m a bit surprised you haven’t had more exposure at least to the term if not the music ?

 

 

Agreed. Not remotely 'weak'. Many fantastic records, and nothing to do with 'b' sides. The term "Low Rider" to describe this type of music/scene has also been in usage for well over twenty years. It's not a new terminology.

32 minutes ago, Johndelve said:

Agreed. Not remotely 'weak'. Many fantastic records, and nothing to do with 'b' sides. The term "Low Rider" to describe this type of music/scene has also been in usage for well over twenty years. It's not a new terminology.

It's surely all about musical taste & mood , not remotely weak & most would probably have been the A- side when first released , age & maturity of the listener may also play apart too . The Cods , I'm A good Guy great dancer probably played 1st at The Twisted Wheel , nowadays I can quite happily play "Pretty Baby ", lots of records of the same era , the slower side never got a look in and now becoming much harder to own , the strange world of Northern Soul eh 

 

 

Listen to Sonny Parker -What can i do,this is very sought after on the low rider scene and is far from being weak.

38 minutes ago, Wheelsville1 said:

Listen to Sonny Parker -What can i do,this is very sought after on the low rider scene and is far from being weak.

Sonny Parker, Soul's opposite to Morrisey! just love his voice, and that warble... dunno what they pay for it now, cost me £300 of Pat Brady in maybe 2003/4. 'Think What can I do' is the better side I think,  Mr Romance is a ok, bit planative, but yery good record.

Thing I have noticed with 'Low rider' as a genre, as it's been uncovered and introduced to us here in the UK, or Northern fans, is they had a sound right that they collected, with deffo Mex influence in some of it, but that sound now, seems to be every slowie of a certain tempo!  I'm sure they over there like those records, but Ive heard some tracks that I just though, nahhh

Is this a Low rider track? Some might just go yeah and if they were selling it, pop Lowrider classic after the grade and price, fair enough...

Am I saying not all slowies are not 'Low rider'? I'm sure loads are, but its not exclusive is it...

 

8 minutes ago, Mal C said:

Sonny Parker, Soul's opposite to Morrisey! just love his voice, and that warble... dunno what they pay for it now, cost me £300 of Pat Brady in maybe 2003/4. 'Think What can I do' is the better side I think,  Mr Romance is a ok, bit planative, but yery good record.

Thing I have noticed with 'Low rider' as a genre, as it's been uncovered and introduced to us here in the UK, or Northern fans, is they had sound right that they collected, with deffo mex influence in some of it, but that sound seems to be every slowie of a certain tempo, I'm sure they over there like those records, but Ive heard some tracks that I just though, nahhh

Is this a Low rider track? seems some might just go yeah and if they were selling it, pop Lowrider classic after the grade and price.

Am I saying not all slowies are 'Low rider'? but Im sure loads that are touted as, havent been...

 

All the copies of Sonny Parker have slowley dried up,mint or mint - is around £900.

23 hours ago, Mal C said:

Sonny Parker, Soul's opposite to Morrisey! just love his voice, and that warble... dunno what they pay for it now, cost me £300 of Pat Brady in maybe 2003/4. 'Think What can I do' is the better side I think,  Mr Romance is a ok, bit planative, but yery good record.

Thing I have noticed with 'Low rider' as a genre, as it's been uncovered and introduced to us here in the UK, or Northern fans, is they had a sound right that they collected, with deffo Mex influence in some of it, but that sound now, seems to be every slowie of a certain tempo!  I'm sure they over there like those records, but Ive heard some tracks that I just though, nahhh

Is this a Low rider track? Some might just go yeah and if they were selling it, pop Lowrider classic after the grade and price, fair enough...

Am I saying not all slowies are not 'Low rider'? I'm sure loads are, but its not exclusive is it...

 

I guess it’s a bit like northern in that respect.  Tracks dismissed as not right for the northern scene have been accepted in later years as the sound and what’s acceptable evolves.

 

so todays slowie could end up being tomorrows low rider.  

On 15/01/2025 at 19:45, Wheelsville1 said:

Listen to Sonny Parker -What can i do,this is very sought after on the low rider scene and is far from being weak.

 

Not to break anyone's enthusiasm but ask anybody with a 'musical' ear and they'll tell you otherwise. Now it's totally fine to dig it no matter what. But to state that it's far from being weak is an 'overkill' far from what it actually is.

Still it has its "charm" but Sonny Parker's singing is really weak on both sides IMO. I first tried to keep it for the 'what can I do' side as 'Mr romance' is just too messy for me. But playback after playback it didn't stood my 'pass' test.

This is just another 'vanity' record from a random (non singer) dude. There are finer 'vanity' records out there. A record that beyond the 'rare' factor and its 'charm' wouldn't do much otherwise I really believe. On both scenes.

Would this fall into the category of Lowrider, cheap as chips or not , due to value and availability ? Love it .

 

FWIW I believe a lot of these 'slowies' are with time falling more and more into the 'Low Rider' category. Where before not. Although some 'purists' might dispute that. At first it was likely mostly the very sad themes and 'dark' sounding tunes. Rarity was also somehow a factor as it is also a collector's scene and competition to find the 'IN' tunes of the moment or the elusive rarities is part of the game. But with time the need for new sounds presses and so the quest for new sounds forces them to lean on previously 'overlooked' sounds. Just like it was and still is with 'Northern Soul'.

Lowrider spectrum is much broader than just obscure sweet soul 45s from the 60s and 70s. The whole scene started in the 50s. And just like the Northern Scene, anything that would fit in is/was accepted, even if it wasn't Soul at all. And that would include tracks like like Santo & Johnny - Sleep walk.

43 minutes ago, Benji said:

Lowrider spectrum is much broader than just obscure sweet soul 45s from the 60s and 70s. The whole scene started in the 50s. And just like the Northern Scene, anything that would fit in is/was accepted, even if it wasn't Soul at all. And that would include tracks like like Santo & Johnny - Sleep walk.

I think I'm slowly understanding the ethos , of the Lowrider spectrum , You could possibly squeeze in sounds like Ray Pollard, The Drifter , Jimmy Radcliffe, Long Ater Tonight Is All over , perhaps this is why these tunes are gaining in price and becoming harder to locate cheaply on original copies ? 

Edited January 16Jan 16 by Happy Feet

I'm still an absolute learner when it comes to Lowrider sounds. From what I understand not everything that is slow(er/ish) would fit into the Lowrider drawer. Many classic Northern Soul beat ballads don't. Others do. Which would explain the price increase for many 45s. Imagine not just one but two collectors scenes chasing the same tunes.

I'd start with checking out the countless Lowrider comp's these guys did over the years. Many of them are on Discogs. Check the tracklistings and I'm sure you'll get a better understanding.

Just highlights really how many from the northern scene live in its own insular world and think nothing else matters. Other genres of soul and black music and tempos have been collectible since soul music began.  

7 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Just highlights really how many from the northern scene live in its own insular world and think nothing else matters. Other genres of soul and black music and tempos have been collectible since soul music began.  

Typical of most 'big' scenes and their misconceptions of other smaller "parallel" scenes IME. Only fair to ask about them. And to make any point to use what is familiar to one as reference. Pop-Corn people for example for too long only had misunderstanding of Northern Soul and were just stuck in their wrong ways trying to compare it to their own.

Which evidently doesn't work when it comes to dance (couple versus solo) and up-beat variations with ballads as opposed to a constant mid-pace to dance to in couple. The 'Low-Rider' scene is not only musically orientated it is also 'ethnically' very 'closed in'. Which makes it rather hermetic for most to 'dive deeper in' into it. Maybe for the better...

29 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Just highlights really how many from the northern scene live in its own insular world and think nothing else matters. Other genres of soul and black music and tempos have been collectible since soul music began.  

I think it's not ignorance , it's tempo that we where after , nowadays I'm loving the much slower pace , so I am giving a new lease of life to half of my collection,  that I wouldn't have 20 yrs. ago except the blatantly obvious ones I mentioned above.

Plus at our time of life , late 60s its nice to dance to with a partner instead of solo , if you wish to .

 

Edited January 17Jan 17 by Happy Feet

Another one that fits into both the soul scene and low rider is Ej and the echoes-Put a smile on your face,i was told this sold very well in Detroit as it was played at high school proms and house parties,i think the fact that the white promo is quite scarce while the stock copy is common is a good indicator of that.

14 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

FWIW I believe a lot of these 'slowies' are with time falling more and more into the 'Low Rider' category. Where before not. Although some 'purists' might dispute that. At first it was likely mostly the very sad themes and 'dark' sounding tunes. Rarity was also somehow a factor as it is also a collector's scene and competition to find the 'IN' tunes of the moment or the elusive rarities is part of the game. But with time the need for new sounds presses and so the quest for new sounds forces them to lean on previously 'overlooked' sounds. Just like it was and still is with 'Northern Soul'.

This is exactly the point I was making more tracks jointing the genre over time which previously were not considered low rider.

It seems the "The Low Rider" labelling has become a selling  tool for many ill informed record dealers to inflate prices of group soul, deep soul, big city soul , sweet soul, Jamaican  etc All of a sudden these genres have become in vogue with collectors  ( which isn't a bad thing ) but to re label them and call them all  " Low Rider " is bad form. I know exactly what " Low Rider  " is,  but maybe one of the L A guys on here could put this to bed...

18 minutes ago, Dysonsoul said:

It seems the "The Low Rider" labelling has become a selling  tool for many ill informed record dealers to inflate prices of group soul, deep soul, big city soul , sweet soul, Jamaican  etc All of a sudden these genres have become in vogue with collectors  ( which isn't a bad thing ) but to re label them and call them all  " Low Rider " is bad form. I know exactly what " Low Rider  " is,  but maybe one of the L A guys on here could put this to bed...

It's the same type of thing that clueless sellers do when calling records "Northern Soul" which are nothing of the sort.

A good soul record is a good soul record regardless of genre.  These tags can sometimes be applied to somehow push an average record.

 

not always but sometimes.

1 hour ago, Dysonsoul said:

It seems the "The Low Rider" labelling has become a selling  tool for many ill informed record dealers to inflate prices of group soul, deep soul, big city soul , sweet soul, Jamaican  etc All of a sudden these genres have become in vogue with collectors  ( which isn't a bad thing ) but to re label them and call them all  " Low Rider " is bad form. I know exactly what " Low Rider  " is,  but maybe one of the L A guys on here could put this to bed...

It was exactly the same when Crossover was en vogue. The majority labelled as such were nothing to do with crossover and many 70s and 80s tracks lazily labelled crossover. 

1 hour ago, Dysonsoul said:

It seems the "The Low Rider" labelling has become a selling  tool for many ill informed record dealers to inflate prices of group soul, deep soul, big city soul , sweet soul, Jamaican  etc All of a sudden these genres have become in vogue with collectors  ( which isn't a bad thing ) but to re label them and call them all  " Low Rider " is bad form. I know exactly what " Low Rider  " is,  but maybe one of the L A guys on here could put this to bed...

Right on the nail, and what I was trying to convey above. We ALL love the music, I just hate seeing every slow, or / and slightly sweet 45 I'd like to get, priced and described as 'Low Rider'! and because of that, its tripled in value, to what it's actually worth.

I find these threads regarding ''Low Rider'' soul thought provoking but somewhat anoying. The first slow harmony record by a lesser known group (certainly to me at the time) that really grabed me was the Festivals 'So in love' on Gordy, that came from an old second hand store in 1979 for 25p. However at that point I was collecting all kinds of soul, however by the late 80's I was looking for more group stuff like the Festivals and single artist ballads to boot., by the end of the 90's, 50 percent of my purchases were slow soul, by the end of the 2000's 80 percent at least were slow soul. So your'e probably thinking were is all this going, point is i'm not the only one, there are numerous collectors both over here Japan and in Europe having followed a similar path just getting on with it and have done it for years, nothing new. I don't think it was untill the late 90's sombody talked about ''Low Rider'', I had no clue what they were on about, only to realize there was a parrallel scene of a knowledgeable bunch of good guys with smilar taste in California. As for 'sweet soul' term being used to ramp up prices on the net, anyone who has being looking for this stuff for any length of time pretty much knows whats rare and what isn't. It does not help when it would appear there seems to be a poor understanding of what sweet soul actually is. For the most part the lead is sung in Falsetto or counter/high tenor. Obviously group or single artist. There have been thousands of soul records listed since the bandwagon jump in ''Low rider'' in the last ten years that due not fit this cryteria, but listed as sweet soul, there are some group records that that would follow a similar lyrical portrail or concept that some would argue should fit this crytria, I dont. Records on my turntable like Longstreets on Mighty oak, Essence of life on Sir Ran Rap, Arterials on Mary and common favorits like Touch of Class 'I'll be your rainbow' Smokey Robinson 'Wev'e come to far to end it now' are SWEET SOUL and i know those guys in California dig these records. As for the Ace CD, IMO there are some nice unreleased tracks. You will notice there is a picture of the Nightchill group featured, with sleeve notes eluding to not knowing who the group were other than Dave Hamilton only knowing the lead singers first name. The group sent me the same photo over twenty years ago, however it was signed by the group. they were - Anthony Robinson, James Smith, Tyrone Marshall, Nathaniel Harriot.

Sometimes a 'picture' speaks a thousand words 😉  Hope this goes someway to explaing 'Low Rider' a little more...

 

Is there any venues in the UK , that support this Genre , or maybe feature it in a satellite room ? Other than the odd tune being spun at a Northern venue . I think age of the punters may be a factor , as we all get a little older & looking for maybe something to suit our dancing capabilities, slower but soulful , this could be the next Northern Soul  scene or at least somewhere in between , not just Lowrider , for perhaps the older generation, leaving the main room / dance floor to the younger generation, just a thought , tin hat on ready for the fall out . 

Here's one I finished my Saturday night session with in the man cave , absolutely brilliant ,didn't pay a lot for it , I know there's 100s of versions , but this is up there with the best .

 

 

Edited January 26Jan 26 by Happy Feet

7 hours ago, Happy Feet said:

Is there any venues in the UK , that support this Genre , or maybe feature it in a satellite room ? Other than the odd tune being spun at a Northern venue . I think age of the punters may be a factor , as we all get a little older & looking for maybe something to suit our dancing capabilities, slower but soulful , this could be the next Northern Soul  scene or at least somewhere in between , not just Lowrider , for perhaps the older generation, leaving the main room / dance floor to the younger generation, just a thought , tin hat on ready for the fall out . 

Here's one I finished my Saturday night session with in the man cave , absolutely brilliant ,didn't pay a lot for it , I know there's 100s of versions , but this is up there with the best .

 

 

Yes, Soul Kitchen in Tunbridge Wells. About four of five Sundays a year. They play loads of what could be termed "Low Rider" sides. I personally played this wonderful Reggie Milner record there about three years ago.

 

o

For anyone interested in these genres we have this in March and Don't Forget Color One Tear Black at the Paradise in London as well .

Hello and Welcome to The Lowdown London a idea that has been fermenting in mine and Ronnies Rose Addled Brains since before Covid .Luckily our good friend Mick Robinson G at the White Bear Farringdon has agreed to let us have some Sunday dates for our new Venture .

Free Entry Two till Eight on a Sunday Afternoon ..You wont have to Think It over twice just take our Good advice you'll love the Soughdough Pizza Too.

The Lowdown will be the Perfect Sunday Chillout with Our Guests and Ourselves spinning Sweet Soul,Beat Ballads,Gospel and Rocksteady

Heres the Date for the Rest of the Year and we have some Superb Guest DJs so come along and Dig The Harmony Soul Brothers and Sisters .

March 16th With Guest DJs Claire Moirano and Graham Smith

May 18th Its a Soul Presciption Takeover with Mark Taylor and Anthony Sweeney

June 22nd And we are well pleased that we managed to Nab the Legend that is Greg Belson who will be on his European Tour so looking forward to hearing his Sets .

August 24th Color One Tear Blacks Claire Kalvisand Jim Edwards

Oct 19th From Carib Soul we have Michael Danieland Mandi Sidlin

Nov 16th We have David Hill and Ady Lupton we couldnt get a December date so our Christmas Party comes early Ho Ho Ho

We look forward to seeing you all over the coming Months and remember to contact Graham Smith if you need any Flyers or Posters done .His did a amazing job with our we love it

Al and Ronnie x