A couple of people on here asked me about the version of Tyrone Davis' "Can I Change My Mind" that I played in my first set (with Eddie Piller) at the Forum on Friday.

It actually WAS Tyrone Davis, and it was the original version that he cut for ABC and that ABC saw no commercial potential in (mugs).

It was eventually issued in 1974 on a "Dunhill Goldies 45" (with Eddie Holman's "Hey There Lonely Girl" on the other side), but it occurs to me, as there's no way to tell from looking at the label, that a lot of soul fans must think that it's the Dakar version that's featured, not this originally unissued ABC version...

...So now you know! (incidentally, this version was also issued on Roulette Golden Goodies and MCA, in their back-to-back oldies series, both times with "Hey There..." on the other side).

It also got me thinking about other first rate soul and dance sides that were only issued, as 45s, on legit-release oldies 45s. So far I've come up with:

Joe Hinton "Don't Tell Her The Truth" (one of the greatest heavy soul sides of all time IMO) (Dunhill Goldies 45)

The Toys "What's Wrong With Me Baby" (Virgo)

Chuck Jackson & Maxine Brown "Let's Go Get Stoned" (Scepter Wand Forever)

Al Green "Take Me To The River" (Motown Yesteryear)

Lee Andrews & the Hearts "Can't Do Without You" (Lost Nite)

Tommy Hunt "Jerkin' Around" (Scepter Wand Forever) - Ok, so this one's not great, but....

...Anymore for anymore?

TONE

Porgy and the Monarchjs 'Hey Girl' on Musicor i guess sort of qualifies - even though it wasn't supposed to be on the other side of the reissue of 'my heart cries for you'

Lee Andrews & the Hearts "Can't Do Without You" (Lost Nite)

Also the version of As Quiet As It's Kept on Lost Nite is a totally different (and better) version than the one that came out on RCA.

I'll add The Charades - You Better Believe It - Harlem Hit Parade

A couple of people on here asked me about the version of Tyrone Davis' "Can I Change My Mind" that I played in my first set (with Eddie Piller) at the Forum on Friday.

It actually WAS Tyrone Davis, and it was the original version that he cut for ABC and that ABC saw no commercial potential in (mugs).

It was eventually issued in 1974 on a "Dunhill Goldies 45" (with Eddie Holman's "Hey There Lonely Girl" on the other side), but it occurs to me, as there's no way to tell from looking at the label, that a lot of soul fans must think that it's the Dakar version that's featured, not this originally unissued ABC version...

...So now you know! (incidentally, this version was also issued on Roulette Golden Goodies and MCA, in their back-to-back oldies series, both times with "Hey There..." on the other side).

It also got me thinking about other first rate soul and dance sides that were only issued, as 45s, on legit-release oldies 45s. So far I've come up with:

Joe Hinton "Don't Tell Her The Truth" (one of the greatest heavy soul sides of all time IMO) (Dunhill Goldies 45)

The Toys "What's Wrong With Me Baby" (Virgo)

Chuck Jackson & Maxine Brown "Let's Go Get Stoned" (Scepter Wand Forever)

Al Green "Take Me To The River" (Motown Yesteryear)

Lee Andrews & the Hearts "Can't Do Without You" (Lost Nite)

Tommy Hunt "Jerkin' Around" (Scepter Wand Forever) - Ok, so this one's not great, but....

...Anymore for anymore?

TONE

I'm running around NOW trying to find the Tyrone Davis re-issue to play it.

Of course I'd never play it unless someone like yourself tipped us off..thanks.

One small point I have been told, many years since the BLUE Lost Nite are not reissues but original Philly issues.. Tone can you or anyone confirm?

IE Lost Nite 1001 Lee Andrews - All I Can do

Lost Nite 1004 Lee Andrews - Can't Do Without You

Lost Nite 1005 Lee Andrews - Quiet as It's Kept

All light blue labels

Magic Touch on Horace, Peanut Duck on something like Joker or Sounds of Soul (can't remember now, been a long time since I dug my copy out)

The Impressions - Somthing Said Love - Ripete

Does this count as Ripete is an oldies beach reissue lable or have they had other new releases?

Are the Kent 7"s "genuine released oldies 45's"?

John

I'm running around NOW trying to find the Tyrone Davis re-issue to play it.

Of course I'd never play it unless someone like yourself tipped us off..thanks.

One small point I have been told, many years since the BLUE Lost Nite are not reissues but original Philly issues.. Tone can you or anyone confirm?

IE Lost Nite 1001 Lee Andrews - All I Can do

Lost Nite 1004 Lee Andrews - Can't Do Without You

Lost Nite 1005 Lee Andrews - Quiet as It's Kept

All light blue labels

Yes, John, that's quite right, they're original issues of things that Lee cut for, but that were not released on, Crimson (which as I'm sure you are aware, was owned by the same guy who owned Lost Nite, and who nowadays owns Collectables, Jerry Green).

I've never been able to date the Lost Nites with any degree of accuracy, but I'm sure that they came out after the Crimson 45s. At least one of them has Crimson matrix numbers scratched out and replaced by LN numbers. Maybe all of them, but I'm not running up into the attic to check which ones when I should be preparing dinner for wife and child ...

...and I would one day really love to get to the bottom of the 'who actually wrote "Gonna Get Along Without Ya Now"/"Can't Do Without You" mystery'. The Vibrations Okeh 45 is credited to Milton Kellem, who did write a song of that title, only it was the one that Viola Wills had a UK hit with in the late 70s (and that teenage girl duo Patience and Prudence and the recently-deceased Teresa Brewer charted with in the mid 50s). It is, of course, excatly the same song as the Lee Andrews, apart from the fact that Lee and the Hearts sing "Cant Do..." where the Vibrations sing "Gonna Get..."

Who wrote what? And why has Mr. Kellem's estate been earning off a song that he did not write for 41 years? I think we should be told!

'What's That On Your Finger' - Kenny Carter (Stardust)

'I'm A Lover' - Tommy Hunt (Stardust)

'How Do You Feel Now' - Big Maybelle (Stardust)

3 great tunes!!

'What's That On Your Finger' - Kenny Carter (Stardust)

'I'm A Lover' - Tommy Hunt (Stardust)

'How Do You Feel Now' - Big Maybelle (Stardust)

3 great tunes!!

Bootlegs don't count - I'm only talking about tracks that came out legally, on legit reissue labels (see back to first posting)...

Would you include Tommy Hunt's, Pretty Part Of You on Horaces?

Would you include Tommy Hunt's, Pretty Part Of You on Horaces?

Yes, any and all Horace's 45 are legit and would 'count'. Although I suppose that I was really thinking of US releases. But if you're including Horace's, then Kent must also be included and to that end I'd have to have Charlie Rich's "Don't Turn Me Down" on any list such as this...

Bootlegs don't count - I'm only talking about tracks that came out legally, on legit reissue labels (see back to first posting)...

There are tons of cuts that have since only come out on recent reissue labels (e.g. grapevine), I think the thread would probably be best confined to older reissue labels from the 60s and 70s. Either way, this is a cool thread, I don't have anything to add as the ones I knew were mentioned already, and there were a couple mentioned that I didn't know.

Actually, I just thought of a random one -- there is a bootleg label "red rocket" out of pittsburgh that bootlegged a bunch of chicago stuff (ideals, duvals, etc.) in the 60s. But there is one northern record on the label that only came out on that label -- the Stylers on red rocket. So I guess that's a legit release on a reissue label.

Actually, I just thought of a random one -- there is a bootleg label "red rocket" out of pittsburgh that bootlegged a bunch of chicago stuff (ideals, duvals, etc.) in the 60s. But there is one northern record on the label that only came out on that label -- the Stylers on red rocket. So I guess that's a legit release on a reissue label.

If like you say it was a bootleg label, how can it be a legit release? from confused of Surrey.

I know this wasn't meant to be about UK releases, but what about LV Johnsons - Recipe on Goldmine Sevens?

There are tons of cuts that have since only come out on recent reissue labels (e.g. grapevine), I think the thread would probably be best confined to older reissue labels from the 60s and 70s.

Yes, spot on, Bob - that's really what I was getting at in the first place. And records that were not issued on reissue labels to cater for the demand of the Northern, Beach etc. scenes, too (I suppose that would disqualify the Toys on Virgo...)

C'mon, guys, there must be more out there that I'm not remembering!

does the usa motown yesteryear series count a bucket load of them were issued ???,

plus all the columbia special series ???,ie french fries,otis blackwell,cant remember any other ones in the series but im sure someone remembers the other 45s,mid/late 70s issues i think.

If like you say it was a bootleg label, how can it be a legit release? from confused of Surrey.

They bootlegged ('reissued') releases on other labels. But they did one original release, which obviously wasn't a bootleg since it wasn't a bootleg of something that was released on another label. I obviously don't know if it was legitimately licensed, etc. but that's a whole separate point on original releases -- probably a large percentage of actual soul releases weren't legitimately licensed in the sense that the people responsible who should have been paid got ripped off and not paid.

How about Inspirations - Gotta find a New Love?

So a version comes out on a Kent CD, then that version gets a "release" or probable Bootleg??? on a Soul Supply White Label 45, while a second version is given to Butch to spin out and eventually gains a Legitimate release on a Benn-X 45, both versions are out of this world in their own right and well worth owning! Bit of everything in there!!

mal>C

Edited October 22, 200717 yr by Mal.C.

does the usa motown yesteryear series count a bucket load of them were issued ???,

plus all the columbia special series ???,ie french fries,otis blackwell,cant remember any other ones in the series but im sure someone remembers the other 45s,mid/late 70s issues i think.

All of the Columbia Special Products series were legit reissues of records that had come out on Epic, Date and other actual Columbia owned labels. I'm not aware of any that were anything but straight reissues of existing 45s, pressed for the 70s NS market mostly.

You're quite right that there were tons of Motown Yesteryear issues. Almost all of them were made up of reiisues of tracks that had previously appeared on actual Motown/Gordy/Soul/Tamla/VIP etc. labels. The only ones I know of that weren't, are the releases of some of Al Green's album tracks that had not been issued on 45s by Hi, such as "How Can You Mend A Broken Heart" and the aforementioned "Take Me To The River".

I'll say it again - the point of the thread was to get a list going of singles that were not originally issued either as singles, or at all, that came out on US 'golden goodies' type labels, especially but not exclusively in the 1970s.

I'm referring to singles that were pressed for a mass market, not expressly for the northern or beach music scenes or any other specialist area.

Obviously there have been Kent, Horace's, Goldmine and Grapevine 45s over here that didn't originally get released on 45 (or at all), but they're hardly 'mass market' items (although it would be nice if some of them were....)

I should honourably mention that there have been a few good 'uns on Collectables 45s in the 1980s and 1990s that kind of qualify. To name but two, they did the Temptations' fantastic "Born To Love You", which was never originally on a Gordy 45 (just a bootleg) and best, and originally unissued, version of the Crystals' "All Grown Up" - I believe, in error - on the other side of their reissue of "Da Doo Ron Ron"...

Edited October 22, 200717 yr by TONY ROUNCE

What about Spider Turner "I'm alive with a loving feeling" on blue/gold MGM that Tim Brown has turnned up?

Blake

Don't want to upset you guys but don't bet your last $ that all them US re-issue 45's are legal, I've said previously on here that they were booting records over there from the late 50's onwards.

i have one of those weird carolina (bootlegs ) it is

W Paul i trust you / Rose Wood i trust you on O.D. records Promo

i know the w paul is billy paul hard to disguise his voice also they seem to just change the name slightly for their re-issues does anyone know who the rose wood version is or is it a legitimate release of this version.

mark

Does Herbert Hunter's "I Was Born To Love You" on Spar qualify? In fact there were a few on the label weren't there - Jenny & The Jewells and a cover of "Selfish One" I seem to remember........

Best,

Ian D

A couple of people on here asked me about the version of Tyrone Davis' "Can I Change My Mind" that I played in my first set (with Eddie Piller) at the Forum on Friday.

Hi Tony, it was me who asked you about the record on the balcony (I am Tony as well) could it be the LP version if you know.

Tony

Edited October 22, 200717 yr by Prophonics 2029

Don't want to upset you guys but don't bet your last $ that all them US re-issue 45's are legal, I've said previously on here that they were booting records over there from the late 50's onwards.

...So have I - many times, in fact. I don't see what that's got to do with a thread about legitimately licensed recordings on legitimate US reissue imprints, though..

All of the records I cited in my original posting were owned by the companies who released them on their reissue imprints (apart from Al Green, who appeared on Motown because Motown was distributing Hi at the time). They are not bootlegs, nor are they counterfeits.

BTW 'they were booting records over there' as early as the 1940s, and possibly even earlier than that.

Edited October 23, 200717 yr by TONY ROUNCE

A couple of people on here asked me about the version of Tyrone Davis' "Can I Change My Mind" that I played in my first set (with Eddie Piller) at the Forum on Friday.

Hi Tony, it was me who asked you about the record on the balcony (I am Tony as well) could it be the LP version if you know.

Tony

...you weren't the only one to ask, Tony!

It's not the LP version - as I said when kicking off the thread, it's the originally unissued ABC recording, the one that ABC rejected as having no commercial potential.

'The LP version' is the same as the one that was issued on Dakar 602 and that topped the soul charts as a single.

But talking of LP's, I might as well mention (again) that the album 'Can I Change My Mind' by 'Tyrone Davis' on the UK budget label Manhattan - which does not contain a song called 'Can I Change My Mind', by the way - is, in fact the originally-unissued Rudy Love Canyon album. It's mostly very good, too - and the version of the Whispers' "Where Have You Been" is just too wonderful for words....

Tony

Are you talking about something like

Chuck Jackson "Whats with this lonieliness"

Great tune never issued but released later & legaly

What about Deon Jackson's alt version of "I Cant Go On" on the flip ov "Love makes The World Go Round" on Contempo Raries? Better version by far IMO

steve

....also on Contempo... did Gladys Knight's "Why Dont You Love Me" come out on original US 45? never seemed to find one if it did!

steve

What a FANTASTIC thread

Top marks Mr Rounce!

Off to put me thinking cap on

Steve

Does Herbert Hunter's "I Was Born To Love You" on Spar qualify? In fact there were a few on the label weren't there - Jenny & The Jewells and a cover of "Selfish One" I seem to remember........

Best,

Ian D

Two different labels though - Jenny & Jewels, Betty Wrigley etc are on Hit not Spar, the equivalent of UK Embassy

Al Green "Take Me To The River" (Motown Yesteryear)

Hi Tony

What version is this?

BTW, was the "other" version of Bobby Bland's Turn On Your Lovelight ever on a 45 or is it only on that budget LP?

(Sorry I missed you on Friday but you know how it is... Great night!)

Al

Edited October 23, 200717 yr by TheHoneyDripper

Hi Tony

What version is this?

BTW, was the "other" version of Bobby Bland's Turn On Your Lovelight ever on a 45 or is it only on that budget LP?

Al

It's the regular album version of TMTTR. Dunno the answer to your Bobby question, mate, sorry!

How about "I Wanna Holler (But The Town's Too Small)" by Gary U.S. Bonds? Only ever issued as the flipside on the 80s (or even 90s) Legrand "golden oldies" reissue of "New Orleans". Fantastic over-the-top kinda tune!

How about "I Wanna Holler (But The Town's Too Small)" by Gary U.S. Bonds? Only ever issued as the flipside on the 80s (or even 90s) Legrand "golden oldies" reissue of "New Orleans". Fantastic over-the-top kinda tune!

...Now that's excatly what I'm talking about - nice one, Sebastian, and fair play to you for 'getting' this thread. I've just gone straight onto GEMM and bought a copy!

...Now that's excatly what I'm talking about - nice one, Sebastian, and fair play to you for 'getting' this thread. I've just gone straight onto GEMM and bought a copy!

Yes, the concept of this thread seems to confuse quite a few...

"I Wanna Holler" is a truly monumental track in my opinion and I was extremely glad when I realised that it was issued on a legitimate 45.

Betty Boo - Say It Isn't So

September Jones - Give Me All Of Your Love

Little Ann - Who Are You Trying To Fool/ When He's Not Around

John Edwards - Tin Man

Dottie Pearson - Bring It Over Baby

Betty Boo - Say It Isn't So

September Jones - Give Me All Of Your Love

Little Ann - Who Are You Trying To Fool/ When He's Not Around

John Edwards - Tin Man

Dottie Pearson - Bring It Over Baby

...I give up. Just what part of "Legitimate US reissue labels" is it that people are not getting? Read the whole thread FFS

It also got me thinking about other first rate soul and dance sides that were only issued, as 45s, on legit-release oldies 45s. So far I've come up with:

...Anymore for anymore?

TONE

Clear as f**king mud - mate

How about "I Wanna Holler (But The Town's Too Small)" by Gary U.S. Bonds? Only ever issued as the flipside on the 80s (or even 90s) Legrand "golden oldies" reissue of "New Orleans". Fantastic over-the-top kinda tune!

do you know if this is the same tune that the detroit cobras covered about 2 years ago?

do you know if this is the same tune that the detroit cobras covered about 2 years ago?

Yes, same tune.

...I give up. Just what part of "Legitimate US reissue labels" is it that people are not getting? Read the whole thread FFS

I give up too . Just what part of your thread says "Legitimate US reissue labels" Write what you mean FFS

I give up too . Just what part of your thread says "Legitimate US reissue labels" Write what you mean FFS

This bit I think, in the first post of the thread

also got me thinking about other first rate soul and dance sides that were only issued, as 45s, on legit-release oldies 45

I give up too . Just what part of your thread says "Legitimate US reissue labels" Write what you mean FFS

See posts 9 and 11 in particular.

See posts 9 and 11 in particular.

Sorry I always thought the guidance on any thread is usually taken by one of the early postings - usually find that post 1 is the best place to start.

Sorry I always thought the guidance on any thread is usually taken by one of the early postings - usually find that post 1 is the best place to start.

...Well, you obviously didn't, as it's stated there, quite clearly, "first rate soul and dance sides that were only issued, as 45s, on legit-release oldies 45". A similar combination of words also appears in most of my other postings on this thread. Admittedly I did not use the phrase "US Oldies 45s" but I would have thought that it was more than implied by the fact that I only listed US 45s on US Oldies labels. And if it wasn't, subesquent positings make it more than abundantly clear (check with Stuart, Pete, Sebastian etc. - all of whom knew excatly what i was getting at - if you don't feel it does.)

If you want to go ahead and start another thread about great, previously unissued Northern sides that first came out on Kent, Goldmine Sevens or any other specialist reissue label, plase go ahead and do so This one's for - and I'll say it just one more time for the broken hearted - soul and dance sides that were only issued as 45s on legitimate US Oldies labels (which is tacitly implied by the first post, and more than qualified by what others and I have said since).

...Well, you obviously didn't, as it's stated there, quite clearly, "first rate soul and dance sides that were only issued, as 45s, on legit-release oldies 45". A similar combination of words also appears in most of my other postings on this thread. Admittedly I did not use the phrase "US Oldies 45s" but I would have thought that it was more than implied by the fact that I only listed US 45s on US Oldies labels. And if it wasn't, subesquent positings make it more than abundantly clear (check with Stuart, Pete, Sebastian etc. - all of whom knew excatly what i was getting at - if you don't feel it does.)

If you want to go ahead and start another thread about great, previously unissued Northern sides that first came out on Kent, Goldmine Sevens or any other specialist reissue label, plase go ahead and do so This one's for - and I'll say it just one more time for the broken hearted - soul and dance sides that were only issued as 45s on legitimate US Oldies labels (which is tacitly implied by the first post, and more than qualified by what others and I have said since).

Does Soul Galore count Tony?

*** Heads for Panic Room and quietly closes door***

Godz

Gentlemen?

i have one of those weird carolina (bootlegs ) it is

W Paul i trust you / Rose Wood i trust you on O.D. records Promo

i know the w paul is billy paul hard to disguise his voice also they seem to just change the name slightly for their re-issues does anyone know who the rose wood version is or is it a legitimate release of this version.

mark

does anyone know owt about this then

mark

Gentlemen?

I'm more of a baseball bat kinda guy myself, Barry...

I'm more of a baseball bat kinda guy myself, Barry...

There's snooker ball's in the one on the right and a lead weight int tother Ton.

Edited October 23, 200717 yr by Barry

...I'd have to have Charlie Rich's "Don't Turn Me Down" on any list such as this...

I've always thought Charlie Rich's song was called 'Don't Tear Me Down'