Has anyone got any info. on these mags which seem to set up as a rival to Blues and Soul in the 1970s when the scene was in its hey day ie first issue, when did it finish, did anyone buy it at the time, most of mine came off a mate who packed the scene in way back in the early 80s thanks Chris

black music had a harder edge than bns ive got one from 1974 classified add back page reads wanted sam fletcher will pay six quid. ther u go more soul history

Has anyone got any info. on these mags which seem to set up as a rival to Blues and Soul in the 1970s when the scene was in its hey day ie first issue, when did it finish, did anyone buy it at the time, most of mine came off a mate who packed the scene in way back in the early 80s thanks Chris

Black echoes was the mag in the late seventies and eighties for northern info,obviously now days we have the www, but then echoes was one of the main sources of info...Im sure alot of folk on here will have back catologues of black echoes...

Has anyone got any info. on these mags which seem to set up as a rival to Blues and Soul in the 1970s when the scene was in its hey day ie first issue, when did it finish, did anyone buy it at the time, most of mine came off a mate who packed the scene in way back in the early 80s thanks Chris

1st issue came out in December 1973, the last I have is August 1980, by which time it was called "Black Music and Jazz Review". It aimed to cover the whole spectrum of black music at the time, so included reggae, jazz, blues and African music. Dave Godin was a contributor in the earlier issues, and Ian Levine also did a column. It did a number of articles about the Northern scene which caused a fair bit of controversy at the time, seen as outsiders slagging a scene they didn't understand, but they still make interesting reading and provide a great snapshot of the times.

Nick

I've got most of these - they are superb, for both soul and reggae and their various offshoots. By the way there is a massive article I wrote about Black Music and the history of Northern Soul in the 70's via it's pages, I know most have seen it already but if not, make yourself a cup of coffee and sit down for 20 minutes and have a trip back in time!

https://www.raresoul.co.uk/wordpress/?page_id=7

I've got most of these - they are superb, for both soul and reggae and their various offshoots. By the way there is a massive article I wrote about Black Music and the history of Northern Soul in the 70's via it's pages, I know most have seen it already but if not, make yourself a cup of coffee and sit down for 20 minutes and have a trip back in time!

https://www.raresoul.co.uk/wordpress/?page_id=7

Pete,

I think Black Music mags & Blues & Soul are becoming highly collectable, their pages do reveal what was "actually" happening at the time. I have a full complete run of both mags, I see then as a valuable research tool, but as yet have not had time to read them. I would certainly like to read that fictional story on "Eddie Foster" again, it was a brilliant read at the time.

John

Edited January 27, 200817 yr by john manship

I used to get B&S, Black Music and Black Echoes and they were certainly a good way to keep up with what was happening. Unfortunately , I didn't keep many copies - in fact just the 3 issues of Black Music with articles about the Northern Scene by Tony Cummings (Jun. '74, Jan. '75 and Nov. '75), due to moving about the country a bit and not having the storage space.

BM also used to list a guide to new US releases each month complete with label and catalogue number and also full page adverts from Selectadisc offering the latest pressings for the princely sum of 90p.

I read through back issues of both BM and B&S, from 72-76 ish, all the time. Each day on my way for a dump I'll grab one at random .

Quite interresting. I get very nostalgic for the "big sounds" listings in the clubs adverts. definately IMHO the golden age. One interresting point I found was that Tony Cummings favorite release from I think 1974, was a certain Nolan Porter If I Could Only Be Sure.

I also remember the fallout from the Northern Soul exposes in BM. I caused so much anger, especially at Wigan. Still it was a great time to be around.

Paul

Has anyone got any info. on these mags which seem to set up as a rival to Blues and Soul in the 1970s when the scene was in its hey day ie first issue, when did it finish, did anyone buy it at the time, most of mine came off a mate who packed the scene in way back in the early 80s thanks Chris

Have a full set of 'Black Music' before it became 'Black Music & Jazz Review' plus a fair number of those. Excellent magazine that I kept buying long after 'Blues & Soul'. Levine's column was great - at one time switched from purely Northern to 'collectable' soul and would feature labels like 'Cle An Thair' - his knowledge was immense and sounds he listed each month as 'breaking' at the Mecca are staggering when you read back now. Would anyone be interested in me scanning and posting these?

There was always rivalry with B&S with Godin eventually returning to them. The coverage was across the board Black Music with less of a 'fanzine' slant. And Tony Cummings could ceratinly wind up the Norther crowd!!

Once won a competition in 'Black Music & Jazz Review' for a gigantic poster of Weather Reports' Mr Gone album cover

Mike

pretty sure black music merged with blues and soul eventually im sure it used to read blues and soul incorporating black music and jazz review on the front

kev

Pete,

I think Black Music mags & Blues & Soul are becoming highly collectable, their pages do reveal what was "actually" happening at the time. I have a full complete run of both mags, I see then as a valuable research tool, but as yet have not had time to read them. I would certainly like to read that fictional story on "Eddie Foster" again, it was a brilliant read at the time.

John

Around about '71, I had to get the newsagent to order it especially for me - he wouldn't stock it - he asked if my parents knew I was reading it I had a couple of copies of Home of the Blues given to me which merged/ was renamed 'Blues & Soul'...I've got from B&S issue 18 up into the 200's. Genius advertising for the O'Jays 'Backstabbers' with a hand drawn knife - no computer graphics in those days. And the review for JB's 'Get up I feel like a sex machine' reads something like 'could become popular'. I do remember handing Frank Elson an ad for a do in T.Wells run by Kim Styles....he duly popped it into his gas mask bag and it was featured in his column a couple of weeks later....thank the Lord for t'internet I'll try and dig out a couple of copies and do some scans....priceless

Genius advertising for the O'Jays 'Backstabbers' with a hand drawn knife - no computer graphics in those days.

Have you Got an issue number for that one Jo ?

I'll try and dig out a couple of copies and do some scans....priceless

Great, does anyone know when the Black Music Mag ended publication was it with the down turn in the Northern scene in the 80s ??

rob

Pete,

I think Black Music mags & Blues & Soul are becoming highly collectable, their pages do reveal what was "actually" happening at the time. I have a full complete run of both mags, I see then as a valuable research tool, but as yet have not had time to read them. I would certainly like to read that fictional story on "Eddie Foster" again, it was a brilliant read at the time.

John

..........................................dancing to Eddie Fosters " I Never Knew".

"Man what a strange dream. Where the hell is Wigan"

..........................................dancing to Eddie Fosters " I Never Knew".

"Man what a strange dream. Where the hell is Wigan"

Wasn't it Blackpool, Steve?

Great little article either way.

..........................................dancing to Eddie Fosters " I Never Knew".

"Man what a strange dream. Where the hell is Wigan"

did post scans of that in gallery a bit back

just had a quick dig but think they may have fell victim to a upgrade or hiding in some corner

will try and track them down later

Genius advertising for the O'Jays 'Backstabbers' with a hand drawn knife - no computer graphics in those days.

Have you Got an issue number for that one Jo ?

I'll try and dig out a couple of copies and do some scans....priceless

Great, does anyone know when the Black Music Mag ended publication was it with the down turn in the Northern scene in the 80s ??

rob

Hi Rob, I'll be having a rummage later They're tucked away in my 'special stuff' cupboard Jo

Hi Rob, I'll be having a rummage later They're tucked away in my 'special stuff' cupboard Jo

====

ive got B&S from 72 - 78 nearly all there..great reads

got mainly for the casino paraphanilea..and playlists

brill reading

im after 78 - 81 issues so will be watching them on johns site

Time to dig mine out the of the loft again. Black Music and Blues & Soul, were, and are great reads today.

My first Blues & Soul was late 71. I have most BM's up to 77.

Now that JM says they are collectible, I will never part with them!

Time to dig mine out the of the loft again. Black Music and Blues & Soul, were, and are great reads today.

My first Blues & Soul was late 71. I have most BM's up to 77.

Now that JM says they are collectible, I will never part with them!

I would I've got (I think) a complete set of BnS from late '71 - '81 & a few earlier numbers.

Haven't read 'em in years & would happily sell, trouble is can you imagine the cost of postage ?

Edited January 28, 200817 yr by SHSDave

I have got a 1/2 outbuilding/shed load of these all Black Music Blues & Soul Street Scene plus countless others..

I have promised them all to Dave Rimmer,they will be looked after and cared for by him rather than in my shed..the lack of space in my record room forced me to store then in the shed...and they do take up loads of space belive me..

maybe a mistake on my part giving them to Dave rather than selling,but he wants them ,he can have em,at least they'll be in a good home..but thats what mates do for each other from time to time..

I have got a 1/2 outbuilding/shed load of these all Black Music Blues & Soul Street Scene plus countless others..

I have promised them all to Dave Rimmer,they will be looked after and cared for by him rather than in my shed..the lack of space in my record room forced me to store then in the shed...and they do take up loads of space belive me..

maybe a mistake on my part giving them to Dave rather than selling,but he wants them ,he can have em,at least they'll be in a good home..but thats what mates do for each other from time to time..

Fcuk the mags give me some records

Fcuk the mags give me some records

4 big boxes of unsorted USa stuff in there as well Dave,you want them you can have em,only no taxis to get em away only your arm power(long walk to the station mate) .I'll talk toyou about them on the 8th at Blue Skies.

Toby.

Pete,

I think Black Music mags & Blues & Soul are becoming highly collectable, their pages do reveal what was "actually" happening at the time. I have a full complete run of both mags, I see then as a valuable research tool, but as yet have not had time to read them. I would certainly like to read that fictional story on "Eddie Foster" again, it was a brilliant read at the time.

John

John, remember placing an ad on the back page of BlackBeat#6?? Just incase you don't....

Steve Guarnori, Kev Griffin & a host of regular contributors used to run BLACKBEAT....and to jog your memory, here are a few snippets from some old issues....

THE CONSTELLATIONS @ £2

SHOCK HORROR @ WEST HAMPSTEAD

6Ts @ CLAPHAM - REVIEW by Steve G

RANDY'S RECORD REVIEW...I bought the lot off him except Brooks O'Dell

And here's Steve G with a copy of BB at the Embassy Club when Harold Melvin appeared with Edwin Starr...

Edited January 28, 200817 yr by vinylvixen

There was also SOUL CARGO....here's a couple of covers and ads....

got a full set of soul cargo tucked away.....

I have got a 1/2 outbuilding/shed load of these all Black Music Blues & Soul Street Scene plus countless others..

I have promised them all to Dave Rimmer,they will be looked after and cared for by him rather than in my shed..the lack of space in my record room forced me to store then in the shed...and they do take up loads of space belive me..

maybe a mistake on my part giving them to Dave rather than selling,but he wants them ,he can have em,at least they'll be in a good home..but thats what mates do for each other from time to time..

And when we eventually co-ordinate some method of collection they will be gratefully received.

I bought Blues & Soul continuously from early '71 to late '02 - I reckon I have around 800 copies that I've been intending to catalogue (like I do my tunes), but haven't found the enthusiasm yet

Missing a few of the earlier ones though...

Like others, I've been through brief phases of digging out old copies and having a good old read

Edited January 28, 200817 yr by ZapatootheTiger

just found some early ones in an old box--why did Dave Godin switch from Blues and Soul to Black Music ? was it political ??

Edited January 31, 200817 yr by Karen and Rob Wigley

And when we eventually co-ordinate some method of collection they will be gratefully received.

Dave, if you're in no rush I've got to go down to Letchworth soon - pm me

Wulfie

Seem to remember Black Echoes being re-named just Echoes in the late 7ts if memory serves me right?

Steve

Just like to say thanks for the response on this, I've been looking through the replies and got some really good info.

Cheers

Chris

John, remember placing an ad on the back page of BlackBeat#6?? Just incase you don't....

I remember typing it!!!

John, remember placing an ad on the back page of BlackBeat#6?? Just incase you don't....

Steve,

Wow! Nottingham St., Address, that's when Andy Cox worked with me (he's now in Perth OZ.)

We had the latest technology in those days and produced our own mailing lists. At the end of the we went to the pub across the road, covered in ink, Indelible ink! that just about faded in time, for the next list. We were the Laurel & Hardy of record dealing..

John

What about when you were at your mum's (in Baldocks Lane?) in the spare bedroom at the back

how many years ago is that John ??

Rob

What about when you were at your mum's (in Baldocks Lane?) in the spare bedroom at the back

how many years ago is that John ??

Rob

I still have some of the old lists from Baldocks Lane (over 30 years old now)

Also remember Ian Levine writting about Jimmy 'Bo' Horne on Dade in Black Music around 1973 if I remember correctly

Regards

Paul

Remember reading the article re Eddie Foster in Black Music and the "dream" reference.

Ironically Tony Cummings could have NEVER KNEW sorry known....how close he really was to the truth.......

I recall a poster i picked up in a Stateside shop of "The Continental Club" in OAKLAND California.

Reading it for the first time i was stunned.....

A concert in 1966 featuring Live on Stage THE MIRACLES (headlining) backed up by support THE BALLADS featuring new single "I Cant See Your Love" and local favourites WALLY COX, TERRIBLE TOM and EDDIE FOSTER......unbelievable!

I just shudder to think what the support DJ was playing and i wonder what Eddie Foster belted out..was it his Ocampo tunes or the IN sounds!

Did he duet with Terrible Tom?......weeee were made for each other.......All for $1 entrance.....

Must dig the poster out and run some off...

Catch you later I'm off on Ebay for a Tardis.....

Wow! Nottingham St., Address, that's when Andy Cox worked with me (he's now in Perth OZ.)

We had the latest technology in those days and produced our own mailing lists. At the end of the we went to the pub across the road, covered in ink, Indelible ink! that just about faded in time, for the next list. We were the Laurel & Hardy of record dealing..

John

Glad that jogged the ol' soul memory John. I've got more scans that I'll put up from BB - very essential reading - if only I'd heeded Steve G's reviews - I could've had the Constellations for £2 Jo

Remember reading the article re Eddie Foster in Black Music and the "dream" reference.

Ironically Tony Cummings could have NEVER KNEW sorry known....how close he really was to the truth.......

I recall a poster i picked up in a Stateside shop of "The Continental Club" in OAKLAND California.

Reading it for the first time i was stunned.....

A concert in 1966 featuring Live on Stage THE MIRACLES (headlining) backed up by support THE BALLADS featuring new single "I Cant See Your Love" and local favourites WALLY COX, TERRIBLE TOM and EDDIE FOSTER......unbelievable!

I just shudder to think what the support DJ was playing and i wonder what Eddie Foster belted out..was it his Ocampo tunes or the IN sounds!

Did he duet with Terrible Tom?......weeee were made for each other.......All for $1 entrance.....

Must dig the poster out and run some off...

Catch you later I'm off on Ebay for a Tardis.....

Now that is pretty sensational as a line up........get me a Tardis if you find one Jo

What about when you were at your mum's (in Baldocks Lane?) in the spare bedroom at the back

how many years ago is that John ??

Rob

Rob,

Me and Nev Wherry worked from that cramped room @ Baldocks Lane circa 1977. I remember one wall was full of "DOVER" distributed 45s I found in Fort Worth. Donna King, Gerri Hall's, Lydia Marcelle's, Maurice Williams..Nev thought we should put them into soul packs! Never quite got that silly, but a year or two later, some titles did go in the 1/2 price sale, if only I'd kept ONE copy each.

I remember all the mad visitors, my Mum was particually intrigued by Pete Lawson..

I use to buy records off of Nev,what happened to him,aint seen him in years. Graham.

I use to buy records off of Nev,what happened to him,aint seen him in years. Graham.

Nev died many years ago BigRay. About 1980/1.

Back to the thread.....

I also remember the Baldocks address, and also the shop in Melton that I used to come over to where videos vyed for space with the vinyl upstairs, and the shop in Newark later where I got things like Martha Starr (that was much later early 90s) - this is getting like a History of John Manship Records thread.

did`nt "echoes" start as a newspaper or was that "black music" about `72. i remember the cummings articles,he got loads of stick off people at the leeds nighter in the tramshed

did`nt "echoes" start as a newspaper or was that "black music" about `72. i remember the cummings articles,he got loads of stick off people at the leeds nighter in the tramshed

True 2 different publications Dennis

Black Music was a Mag in the style of Blues and Soul and was a direct rival in the 1970s.

Black Echoes was a newspaper (first published 75/76) and became the Glossy Mag that is still publishing today under the ownership of Paul Philips ( who was the Rambler who did the Northern column & also a Top 10 Pop chart maker !!! )

Also as a young lad Den, what issue of Blues and Soul is your article in "What Soul means to me " around 1971/72 you old BUGGER

Rob

Black Echoes first issue cover date was January 30, 1976.

I was first staff writer for the paper and that date was my birthday so I remember it will.

Pete Harvey the editor know nothing about Northern Soul until he took the job but I soon got him converted and he was up for giving it maximum coverage and in return for him taking me along to all the record company "ligs" in London where I lived in the week I took him to a Cleethorpes Pier all-nighter and Manchester Ritz all-dayer.Pete was a lovely guy who sadly died in the 80's, much too young.

Neil

First issue of Black Music would have been December 1973.

Black Echoes first issue cover date was January 30, 1976.

I was first staff writer for the paper and that date was my birthday so I remember it will.

Pete Harvey the editor know nothing about Northern Soul until he took the job but I soon got him converted and he was up for giving it maximum coverage and in return for him taking me along to all the record company "ligs" in London where I lived in the week I took him to a Cleethorpes Pier all-nighter and Manchester Ritz all-dayer.Pete was a lovely guy who sadly died in the 80's, much too young.

Neil

Any pithy/ soulful memories Neil? BTW, happy belated birthday to you and a belated anniversary of Echoes....

First issue of Black Music would have been December 1973.

no it was nov 73 the stevie wonder cover was not the first issue,even though it was flashed 'first issue' it was actually the second.

Rob,

Me and Nev Wherry worked from that cramped room @ Baldocks Lane circa 1977. I remember one wall was full of "DOVER" distributed 45s I found in Fort Worth. Donna King, Gerri Hall's, Lydia Marcelle's, Maurice Williams..Nev thought we should put them into soul packs! Never quite got that silly, but a year or two later, some titles did go in the 1/2 price sale, if only I'd kept ONE copy each.

I remember all the mad visitors, my Mum was particually intrigued by Pete Lawson..

I rember when you worked for the gas board ,and my mum had washed the mantles of the gas fire and you coudnt understand why they didnt glow red lol till mother told you she had washed them ,about 1972 ish .top gas fitter when there and not at soul bowl

Any pithy/ soulful memories Neil? BTW, happy belated birthday to you and a belated anniversary of Echoes....

Too many to mention - but - interviewing The Tammps in my first week and getting really fed up when they denied any connection with The Volcanos, same thing a few months later with Candi Stanton when she denied recording "Now You've Got The Upper Hand", amazing face to face interview with Lee Garrett when he was signed to Chrysalis but remembered all about Harthon and doing background vocals on "Shing A Ling", interviewing James Fountain by phone and feeling uncomfortable that he was so broke when "Seven Day Lover" at the time was the biggest priced rare Soul 45 (and no, he didn't have a copy), spending time on a coach with Junior Walker and all he wanted to do was talk about how much he loved Buses, interviewing Hal Davis in NYC about 2Ist Century "Tailgate" amd not knowing he had co-produced "Do I Love You" which was pressed as Eddie Foster at the time, going to the New York Disco Convention and hearing world wide premiers that night for "I Feel Love" - Donna Summer and "Dance Dance Dance" - Chic, getting white label upfront promos of Brothers Johnson and Bootsy Collins albums, doing a phone interview with Maurice White of Earth Wind & Fire/Kalimba and feeling honoured, Millie Jackson getting X rated on a phone interview, the piece about Cleethorpes Pier which I thought was good, and lots lots more memories,including meeting Reggae producers in the office one week and the next they were on remand in Brixton Prison charged with murder, going on radio and being told it was wrong I was staff wrtier for Black Echoes and was white, doing Northern Soul shows for Radio Luxembourg with Stuart ?as the presenter and wincing when he dropped my London demo of Darrell Banks on the floor of the studio, meeting Van McCoy......

All the Best,

Neil

4e

All the Best,

Neil

True 2 different publications Dennis

Black Music was a Mag in the style of Blues and Soul and was a direct rival in the 1970s.

Black Echoes was a newspaper (first published 75/76) and became the Glossy Mag that is still publishing today under the ownership of Paul Philips ( who was the Rambler who did the Northern column & also a Top 10 Pop chart maker !!! )

Also as a young lad Den, what issue of Blues and Soul is your article in "What Soul means to me " around 1971/72 you old BUGGER

Rob

hi rob n karen, less of the YOU. i remember getting a paper about soul music when i was at colledge 2nd year so it was around `73.at the same time i was buying SOUL SOUNDS label from the local open market. ( collectable so i hear) .About that article in blues and soul? well i was only 19 and said it like it was. would i change a thing? no.