O.v.o And C.r.&.p Venues

[Harry Crosby]

Another word to add to the James Trouble dictionary ...

Maybe a seperate thread for "what or who is a Dullard"

was his first name MOSES

[Guest]

I only buy original vinyl but were do people stand on the unrealeased stuff recently heard gloria shannon tears are gifts from heaven released by realside on 45 facking fantastic tune that would sound awsome out but would djs not play because it was unreleased way back 1970

[Steve L]

Dullards are the serious problem. They need stamping out, and just because the play OV doesn't give them an excuse.

In my rather humble opinion, of course.

Not sure what you're saying here James, in my experience the dullards playing boring unimaginative sets are usually the ones playing bootlegs

[Little-stevie]

was his first name MOSES

Norman I think you willl find that in there too..

[Paul Shirley]

I only buy original vinyl but were do people stand on the unrealeased stuff recently heard gloria shannon tears are gifts from heaven released by realside on 45 facking fantastic tune that would sound awsome out but would djs not play because it was unreleased way back 1970

YEP NICE TUNE ....... AND I HAVE NO PROBLEMS PLAYING IT ,

[Davetay]

Havent played a northern bootleg since I was a schoolkid. Sorry to burst that bubble Di.

Any DJ worth their salt can put together an hour of originals without having to resort to boots.

Bloody hell Steve, what year did you leave school.

When i was at school i didn,t no what a bootleg was? that,s if there were any about.

What year did the soul sounds boots come out? I left school in 1970

Dave.

P.S. It was 1975 before i started playing OVO and i DJ,d all around East Lancs till 1983.

[Sean Hampsey]

I only buy original vinyl but were do people stand on the unrealeased stuff recently heard gloria shannon tears are gifts from heaven released by realside on 45 facking fantastic tune that would sound awsome out but would djs not play because it was unreleased way back 1970

Great track and absolutely should be played out.

Can't understand why any Soul DJ wouldn't want to play such a lovely tune.

I would doubt that those, who hold the OVO policy dear, would have any cause for complaint there!

Sean

[Guest]

Great track and absolutely should be played out.

Can't understand why any Soul DJ wouldn't want to play such a lovely tune.

I would doubt that those, who hold the OVO policy dear, would have any cause for complaint there!

Sean

Yeah thought the same got me a copy and would have no dramas playing it out i think if its unreleased originally and then put on 45 its fair game, just on the ovo clubs dundee soul club brillant night originals only

[Chalky]

I only buy original vinyl but were do people stand on the unrealeased stuff recently heard gloria shannon tears are gifts from heaven released by realside on 45 facking fantastic tune that would sound awsome out but would djs not play because it was unreleased way back 1970

unreleased stuff should be played if that means getting a carver done to get it heard get one done, maybe northern venues should be looking into cd players with the amount of unreleased material that is on cd right now. Whats the point in spending £20 on a carver just to get round this OVO policy when you might just as well play it from the cd

Going back to Gloria Shannon its no longer unreleased is it and the real side disc is the original release regardless when it was recorded. Same goes for Kent and Grapevine 45's of unreleased material, get them played. I've played the unreleased Al Williams on Grapevine out as have others and the same goes for some Kent 45's.

[Little-stevie]

Just seen this on the BBC news....

An Australian politician has called for unemployed people to be stung with a cattle prod in an attempt to get them back to work.

Maybe the same system on stage for all sinners too ... Getting stung on the stage at a big venue would be great footage for you tube and i bet the sinner would never come back.. If he did he would be born again for sure

Gonna sk Ady if we have a cattle prodding on stage at Cleethorpes... Just after the dj dancing thing ...

Along with OVO, we can have warning.. Cattle prodders patrol this club..

[Paul Shirley]

QUOAT- If all these people running their "something different" soul night packed in and attended your all nighter instead, it may not add hundreds to the door but enough to allow you to have more budget to spend.

To me this is the real cost of the proliferation of these soul nights, its killing the scene not protecting it, no matter what people think or want to tell themselves.

May sound brutal but to me its true and people who think otherwise are kidding themselves.

ITS THIS STATEMENT THAT CAUSES ME TO NEVER EVER WANT TO GO TO A BIG VENUE EVER AGAIN' IF YOUR NOT ONE OF THE LADS DONT OPEN A VENUE !!!! AT WHAT POINT DO WE BECOME ONE OF THE LADS AND AT WHAT POINT IS OUR CLUB A BIG VENUE. SORRY I NO LONGER WISH TO GO TO ALLNIGHTERS TO HELP WITH THERE BUDGET. MY BUDGET COMES OUT OF MY OWN POCKIT FROM WHAT I HAVE WORKED HARD FOR MOST OF MY LIFE AND BY DOING SO I WISH TO CHOOSE FOR MY SELF WHERE I SPEND IT AND AT WHAT CLUB

[Epic]

unreleased stuff should be played if that means getting a carver done to get it heard get one done, maybe northern venues should be looking into cd players with the amount of unreleased material that is on cd right now. Whats the point in spending £20 on a carver just to get round this OVO policy when you might just as well play it from the cd

Going back to Gloria Shannon its no longer unreleased is it and the real side disc is the original release regardless when it was recorded. Same goes for Kent and Grapevine 45's of unreleased material, get them played. I've played the unreleased Al Williams on Grapevine out as have others and the same goes for some Kent 45's.

Everytime this thread - or simliar ones - which have been discussed many times - reissues, CDs, first time on vinyl etc etc. get's brought up - instead of hollering for OVO perhaps we should be championing tunes from a legitimate source to be played.

I really have no problem with Kent or unreleased Motown CDs etc. being played at gigs - in fact I would WELCOME them because in the main they are quality tunes - so let's hear 'em & not some awful piece of rare early sixties substandard, dull R&B being played in the name of Northern Soul.

[Paul Shirley]

I HAVE SOME BIG EXPENSIVE TUNES MY SELF LIKE MANY ON HERE. AND SOON NO DOUBT SOON WE WILL BE TOLD YOU SHULDENT BE PLAYING THEM TUNES AT POXY LITTLE CLUBS AS THE LADS WONT LIKE IT . *THE SCENE *YEAH RIGHT WHAT A LAUGH IT AINT THE SCENE I USED TO KNOW

Edited September 16, 2008 by mepaul50

[jocko]

Self promotion??? I'm not promoting anything here, I'm expressing my opinion, which I'm entitled to do, just as you are too.

My posting wasn't about me at all, it was about the scene and how - in my opinion - some people focus more on rarity and exclusivity (i.e. oneupmanship) than they do on the actual music. I stand by every word I said and I think you need to read my posting again very carefully before you jump to any bizarre conclusions.

And don't suggest that I even implied that NS is "crap" (?) or that "everyone into Northern has no taste" (???) because I most certainly did not.

I really don't know where you're coming from at all.

Paul

Your post had 223 words, 201 were about how you listen to music and how you review that music, 5 words were about this post, if thats not irrelevant what is!!

The Northern Scene has always had a huge core into the record collecting, chasing the next big then, playing it and moving on, which is what you obviously mean by one upmanship, if there was more of that still about it wouldnt be in the mess its in now.

None of that means people dont appreciate the music, which is what you are implying, I am one of the minions but fairly happy if you want to pop round my record room some day, you will see a lot of appreciated music, all of it quality. Enjoying the ethos of the scene is not mutually exclusive to this, despite how you continually imply this,

[Guest clanger v2]

Edited September 16, 2008 by clanger v2

[jocko]

QUOAT- If all these people running their "something different" soul night packed in and attended your all nighter instead, it may not add hundreds to the door but enough to allow you to have more budget to spend.

To me this is the real cost of the proliferation of these soul nights, its killing the scene not protecting it, no matter what people think or want to tell themselves.

May sound brutal but to me its true and people who think otherwise are kidding themselves.

ITS THIS STATEMENT THAT CAUSES ME TO NEVER EVER WANT TO GO TO A BIG VENUE EVER AGAIN' IF YOUR NOT ONE OF THE LADS DONT OPEN A VENUE !!!! AT WHAT POINT DO WE BECOME ONE OF THE LADS AND AT WHAT POINT IS OUR CLUB A BIG VENUE. SORRY I NO LONGER WISH TO GO TO ALLNIGHTERS TO HELP WITH THERE BUDGET. MY BUDGET COMES OUT OF MY OWN POCKIT FROM WHAT I HAVE WORKED HARD FOR MOST OF MY LIFE AND BY DOING SO I WISH TO CHOOSE FOR MY SELF WHERE I SPEND IT AND AT WHAT CLUB

I hardly think Bidds, the venue we were talking about, is a big money making club. Neither I would imagine is Lifeline or Burnley the others I was referring to. Biggest that fits in the category I was talking about is Middleton, and I suspect due to the size of the promotion the promoters are not exactly lining their pension fund at the end of the night, so I have no ide what you are talking about.

You have the right to choose obviously, but equally you have to accept your choices are killing the progressive all nighter scene, not matter what you tell yourself.

The question isn't about big or small clubs, its that there aren't enough people to go around the progressive scene, Mace has said that and he has much more first hand experience than me, and therefore by starting up a night just so you can dj is just not helping it.

Good luck in what you do mate, but be honest and clear in your motivations.

I HAVE SOME BIG EXPENSIVE TUNES MY SELF LIKE MANY ON HERE. AND SOON NO DOUBT SOON WE WILL BE TOLD YOU SHULDENT BE PLAYING THEM TUNES AT POXY LITTLE CLUBS AS THE LADS WONT LIKE IT . *THE SCENE *YEAH RIGHT WHAT A LAUGH IT AINT THE SCENE I USED TO KNOW

What have expensive tunes got to do with it, this is exactly the point people are making, just buying a big bag of tunes and shoving a soul night on isnt contributing in any way to the scene. Its really not about that its about adding many more venues when there aren't any more punters and the only motivation is to get a DJ spot.

My experience is a bag of big epensive tunes does not make a DJ.

Sorry to be so brutal mate, particularly as you are so enthusiastic but I just think you need to step back and think about it, its currently unsustainable and only things thats going to suffer is the quality places.

Are you really saying the scene you used to know was full of people putting their own nights on up against, Wigan, Rotherham and Stafford, or whenever your era was, sorry but I really dont think so.

Edited September 16, 2008 by jocko

[Epic]

Unless of course the substandard, dull R&B happens to keep the dancers happy, in which case it becomes acceptable in the name of Northern Soul.

dull R&B is just that - DULL.

[Maark]

dull R&B is just that - DULL.

The definition of someone into R&B, a "DULLR&B" (only joking, I love it me....) Apologies if I'm not taking this seriously any more......

Edited September 16, 2008 by Maark

[Guest Bogue]

I would say it's (at least) very much what a Northern based Soul night 'should' be (It's a superb place, by the way!) and that Soul fans (North or South) should flock there. I only mentioned that particular venue as an example where such an open minded crowd might have enjoyed a few recent Soul releases in with the mix, as they had at Worcester a couple of weeks prior. In an age where guys such as Pete Smith are making new release recommendations (gawd bless him) surely we shouldn't be closing the door and being proscriptive on newer material because of 'format restrictions'... should we?

This OVO policy, if it's to be taken as read, prevents the promotion of good quality new Soul music to Soul lovers, by virtue of the fact that new releases on vinyl are in scant supply. As we all know, most newly released Soul music does not appear on vinyl. That's been the case for years (I shudder to think of the scores of great tunes that have been missed by people who might otherwise have been able to enjoy them).

If this 'policy' restricts the opportunity for a DJ to play a brand new Soul track - which is only available on CD - that is prohibition of the art form and counter productive to the promotion of good quality Soul Music in the UK - surely?

If it even extends to where an upcoming DJ is denied the opportunity to play a legitimate 're-issue' to a crowd at a Soul night (theres a good few quality re-issues about these days - many of them through the likes of SS members Paul Mooney, Gary Cape, Ady Croasdell, Tony Rounce etc - all just crying out to be played) then isn't that also some kind of restrictive practice?

Someone stated earlier that the scene was always based on original vinyl... well, of course, that was all we had back then. We played NEW releases on the only format that was available - now we have alternative formats but, with OVO the opportunity to play new material seems to be closing and it's stifling the programming of good quality new releases.

By the way, as a record collector, I'm very much an OV person and fully in agreement that Bootlegs should neither be played or encouraged - always have been. Its blatant piracy... but for the 'Northern Scene' to promote (or enforce) an entirely OVO policy and tar legitimate CD & legitimately 'reissued' Vinyl releases with the same brush is taking that particular aspect of our scene to the extreme (IMO).

Sean

Great post

Was looking forward to seeing you dj at Worcester, had to go out for a family meal on the night in question though. Heard it went well though

A mildly amusing anal-ology on the points you raise about CD's & re-issues ;

If the human race had been run on the ethics of the NS scene would we would all still be wiping our backsides with a bushy twig ?

Lets be realistic, if DJs are not going to play original format, then they may as well play cd/mp3 format as its the easiest way to have the biggest selection, like at Soul in the Sun etc/Manhattens bar.

These days i'm not sure if the main credentials of a good DJ is simply that they have original format music. Its great if they have, but making the crowd have a good time is probably more important on the whole.

Everybody has got almost every record on cd/mp3 anyway, so the super rare stuff thats not been re-issued one way or another up to now is going to be covered up anyway.

Ed

Exactly The creators/tune finders at the fore front would still be seeking out the rarities because imo that is the reason the top clubs/nighters are in that place... not because they put it through the speakers via OV.

"By the way, as a record collector, I'm very much an OV person and fully in agreement that Bootlegs should neither be played or encouraged - always have been. Its blatant piracy"

Well it is and especially in the context of this thread it isn't. If "Biffo" is playing his Lee David on Ruby [was it?] how is that piracy? OK if we buy bootlegs we encourage those who do them to continue by the fact that they make money out of it. However Biffo himself has not deprived the artist/producer etc of any money because in most instances he never had the opportunity to buy the original as a new current 45 and so putting his money into the right pockets.

I mean buying the original to play isn't benefitting the artists either. Wouldn't we have to all buy the legit re-releases from Kent say to get money to the right people and Im sure most don't go out and buy something on re-release if they already have the original.

Bit of a moral minefield really although I do think the bootleggers need to be discouraged. And a quick moan about Motown unreleased stuff. Advance copies on 45 for some "top" dj's, followed by sporadic bootlegging and the morons with the rights don't release tracks as 45s. As the guy who brought over that original few on tape back in the 80's I coulda done a better job than those tossers. We'd have a Motown 101 series well on it's way by now and no wonder the sharks have stepped in.

Finally I'd generalise and say that the type of dj like hypothetical "Biffo" with his boots is probably more than likely to buy the re-issues that are legit as well cos all he's interested in is the sound so he's probably contributing more to the artists etc than us original only freaks.

ROD

Another good one Rod

I know this might come over as being a bit strange, but it must be said as it happens...............I personally do not have a problem, with your local yokal soul night playing music from what ever format they see fit. On the whole it doesnt matter, the DJ is not pretending to be anything other than what they are & they have probably no further ambition DJ/promoter wise. If you asked them they would be totally honest & open with regards to all these issues & to be fair most likely playing a mixture of originals/boots/reissues & probably no carvers, as opposed to all boots or what ever. These people in my experience are generally quite unassuming & harmless & genuinely do what they do for the pure pleasure, certainly the couple of do's we have in my general area, one has been running in some form or another for over 20 years, the vast majority who attend regularly & have done for most of the time the event has been running, NEVER go any where else EVER. This is not because of sour grapes or any other reason what so ever, they wouldnt even consider it, most have never been to an Allnighter EVER, those that have, went well over 20 years ago & then were never regular attendees, more like they were swept along with what was the 'in' thing at the time. This event does not effect the local scene in any way shape or form what so ever & I defend their right to carry on doing what ever they want, they do not take punters from any other event & they have no bearing on NS what so ever, nor do they aspire to. The other event in the area has been going for slightly less time, but all of the above applies............the people attending & promoting & DJing have no aspirations other than to enjoy them selves...............most have absolutely no idea about the complexities of the greater NS SCENE, they neither know nor care, if you were to speak about it, you may well be speaking a different language, they would not have a scooby doo about & are genuinely nice people, who love to play & dance to ordinary club classic type NS with the odd reissue or boot of a more popular recent play, when I say this I mean something like 'Just Loving You'. This scenario i have no issue with what so ever & long may these events continue & long may the punters that go enjoy them..............BTW as an after thought, very few are SS members, they wouldnt know this site existed & why would they need to visit it ????????????.

So where do my issues lie................wannabe DJ/Promoters who are pretending to be something they are not by putting on events so they can DJ with their mates & pretend theyre important to the NS scene. These events do effect the NS scene cos they masquerde as the real thing & hide behind the defence I use for the real local soul nights as stated above, with regard to the bootleg/reissue scenario, many of these guys are having carvers done of big current tunes & will pass them off as originals if they can get away with it...................... they will use the, 'well the punter doesnt care they just wanna dance type excuses' constantly if caught out & will hide behind the genuine defence I have used for the real local soul nights........................thats my problem with C.R.A.P venues & I mean the latter ones I have discussed.

OK confused, so am I...............not sure if I have put this over very eloquently so I do apologise & I have not wanted to sound elitist in any way, just try to be honest.

Russ

Shift up Russ..... we need more room on the fence

Do sort of understand where you are coming from actualy

Self promotion??? I'm not promoting anything here, I'm expressing my opinion, which I'm entitled to do, just as you are too.

My posting wasn't about me at all, it was about the scene and how - in my opinion - some people focus more on rarity and exclusivity (i.e. oneupmanship) than they do on the actual music. I stand by every word I said and I think you need to read my posting again very carefully before you jump to any bizarre conclusions.

And don't suggest that I even implied that NS is "crap" (?) or that "everyone into Northern has no taste" (???) because I most certainly did not.

I really don't know where you're coming from at all.

Paul

Don't worry you weren't the only one left bemused....... still, at least you are giving Beeks a break !

I thought you had mellowed of late Jocko.... hope it's not the SFFL that's bringing out the frustrations again

Everytime this thread - or simliar ones - which have been discussed many times - reissues, CDs, first time on vinyl etc etc. get's brought up - instead of hollering for OVO perhaps we should be championing tunes from a legitimate source to be played.

I really have no problem with Kent or unreleased Motown CDs etc. being played at gigs - in fact I would WELCOME them because in the main they are quality tunes - so let's hear 'em & not some awful piece of rare early sixties substandard, dull R&B being played in the name of Northern Soul.

As has been muted in some of the above posts.... & it's one I don't understand too.

Do people think they are doing these people wrong by playing the stuff ?

Can't see why as even they can't take these master tapes out to play so the OVO thing goes out of the window.

Perhaps some of these guys could let us know their feelings on it ?

[Mace]

I hardly think Bidds, the venue we were talking about, is a big money making club. Neither I would imagine is Lifeline or Burnley the others I was referring to.

I wish.....we usually get around 130 - 150 in, with 180-200 on good nights.

From the few times I've been Burnley I'd say Phil gets similar numbers, and before Lifeline moved to Wolves I believe they were roughly the same.

I've purposely promoted Bidds to be different, hence booking some DJs who will include a fair percentage of R&B and Latin in the sets, and even though it is a predominately 60s night, if DJs wanna play beyond that then thats up to them......but the result is, that will always comes at a price cus it's not everybodies cup of tea, and if I'm honest, I'm not bothered about having masses of new faces attend the club if it means the music policy has to change to appease them.

That isn't meant to sound snobbish, elitist or such, truth is, I could probably fill Bidds 3 times over if I ran it as a more commercial allnighter, but that's not what I want to pursue, and besides which, there are plenty of those events battling for overcrowded slots on the calender as it is.

[Guest Paul]

Your post had 223 words, 201 were about how you listen to music and how you review that music, 5 words were about this post, if thats not irrelevant what is!!

The Northern Scene has always had a huge core into the record collecting, chasing the next big then, playing it and moving on, which is what you obviously mean by one upmanship, if there was more of that still about it wouldnt be in the mess its in now.

None of that means people dont appreciate the music, which is what you are implying, I am one of the minions but fairly happy if you want to pop round my record room some day, you will see a lot of appreciated music, all of it quality. Enjoying the ethos of the scene is not mutually exclusive to this, despite how you continually imply this,

Well at least you've read my posting again, even if it was just to count the words. But somehow you still manage to read things I didn't say or even imply and you still haven't explained what you thought I was promoting. I'm not a record dealer or a DJ or a promoter, I'm a music fan.

I referred to "oneupmanship" because, like it or not, it is a reality of the scene. The essence of my post was to express my opinion that I'm more interested in the music itself to be too concerned with rarity and exclusivity etc. What is so difficult to understand about that???

Although I didn't say it, I do think the standard of music can suffer at times if people focus too much on rarity and exclusivity. I'm saying it now because that's my opinion.

And I even said that the rarity and exclusivity aspect is very interesting, for christ sake. What is so difficult to understand?

My posting was relevant to this thread and I have every right to express my opinion.

Don't twist my words and don't lecture me on the history of the scene as if I was born yesterday. Your opinions are very welcome but you don't even know me and I can't understand what possessed you to use the phrase "...the latest, the greatest real soul lover in the world" because (1) I've been a soul fan for more than thirty-five years, and (2) my love of music is no stronger than anyone else's.

If you have a problem with me, then please get to the point. And don't bother counting these words because I'll save you the trouble. There are 282.

Paul Mooney

(...actually, it might be 283 words, or 285 if you include my name. Maybe you can verify this?

Edited September 16, 2008 by Paul

[Guest Bogue]

I wish.....we usually get around 130 - 150 in, with 180-200 on good nights.

From the few times I've been Burnley I'd say Phil gets similar numbers, and before Lifeline moved to Wolves I believe they were roughly the same.

I've purposely promoted Bidds to be different, hence booking some DJs who will include a fair percentage of R&B and Latin in the sets, and even though it is a predominately 60s night, if DJs wanna play beyond that then thats up to them......but the result is, that will always comes at a price cus it's not everybodies cup of tea, and if I'm honest, I'm not bothered about having masses of new faces attend the club if it means the music policy has to change to appease them.

That isn't meant to sound snobbish, elitist or such, truth is, I could probably fill Bidds 3 times over if I ran it as a more commercial allnighter, but that's not what I want to pursue, and besides which, there are plenty of those events battling for overcrowded slots on the calender as it is.

I don't think that is snobbish or elitist Mace That is just guiding a venue into providing a musical taste that you feel needs filling & is to be applauded.

IMO there is a niche for everyone & if people just got on with enjoying the one they find suits them rather than worrying about everyone elses then it would be a happier place...... here & on what is called the scene too .

[Paul Shirley]

ok yes i do understand exactly where your coming from i know that there aint the punters to go around but for me and many others for many diferent reasons i do not wish to go miles and miles away any more, i have atendid my fair share of nighters over the last 35 years and where i live there aint much choice in progresive music apart from one club just down the rd . and i can say with my hand on my heart heardly any body who atends my club traval even 25miles away some not all , like me they have done there fair share of nighters over the years and are geting on .and also like me some have health isuess work all kinds of things . on the other hand i have had people travel from miles away actuly people that go to lifeline( but not on the night) having mentiond all this i also know locals that dont ever come to local nights they dont suport us but go to nighters every month even when there aint nothing on that clash but i dont go moaning about them its there choice & i think its unfair to blame all the smaller clubs because people no longer want to go up and down the country any more . may be in some cases yeah but not round our way .most of the people i know who go to big nighters go to the nighter no mater what club is open on the same night they dont give a shit about any little club give me a brake , but aniway i will agree to disagree regards paul ps as for dj's i am just a bloke who plays records to people that like to hear them at 51 i have got no desire to proove anything to myeslf or others i have beter things to do in life .not every one wants to be a big name dj or record colector in fact i no longer want to be apart of "the scene "

[Guest Paul]

...Don't worry you weren't the only one left bemused.......

Hello Bogue,

I felt more "bewildered" than "bemused". Which is worse?

Paul

[Guest ruffsounds]

Re CDs

My equipment is used in various venues and has a cd unit incorperated with my mixer unit in its own flight case, does it get used ? no except by myself when i am setting the equipment up and getting everything ready.

Have been told by many people they will not tolerate cds being used but they will happily dance all night long to boots & reissues which brings me on to Moses Smith reissue or boot or whatever you want to call it, the Try My Love side has had a fair old few plays out by seemingly everyone including the big boys is this deemed acceptable as the price for this is now on an even par with the original in some quarters.

Are there some records out there we can play and some we cant irrespective of format or are people looking for excuses on wether or not there is too much or too little going on and too many djs jumping on the bandwagon with too many nights also.

cheers Ralph

[Sean Hampsey]

Great post

Was looking forward to seeing you dj at Worcester, had to go out for a family meal on the night in question though. Heard it went well though

Thanks mate, hope the meal out was worth it.

You missed a really great night... a perfect blend of top drawer CD only, Original Vinyl 45's, LP only tracks and unreleased acetates...

...perfect fun for all the family!

Sean

[Paul-s]

I've said this before "LET HE/SHE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE" and i mean ever !!!! whos got the balls not many me thinks i'll happily be ducked Ken , it'll be quite refreshing i once played a Carlena boot

What a strange statement? I have NEVER played a boot and loads of other collectors also? Dont get your point

[ChrisOD1964]

cars are a C.R.A.P. venue.

Chris

[Guest Bogue]

ok yes i do understand exactly where your coming from i know that there aint the punters to go around but for me and many others for many diferent reasons i do not wish to go miles and miles away any more, i have atendid my fair share of nighters over the last 35 years and where i live there aint much choice in progresive music apart from one club just down the rd . and i can say with my hand on my heart heardly any body who atends my club traval even 25miles away some not all , like me they have done there fair share of nighters over the years and are geting on .and also like me some have health isuess work all kinds of things . on the other hand i have had people travel from miles away actuly people that go to lifeline( but not on the night) having mentiond all this i also know locals that dont ever come to local nights they dont suport us but go to nighters every month even when there aint nothing on that clash but i dont go moaning about them its there choice & i think its unfair to blame all the smaller clubs because people no longer want to go up and down the country any more . may be in some cases yeah but not round our way .most of the people i know who go to big nighters go to the nighter no mater what club is open on the same night they dont give a shit about any little club give me a brake , but aniway i will agree to disagree regards paul ps as for dj's i am just a bloke who plays records to people that like to hear them at 51 i have got no desire to proove anything to myeslf or others i have beter things to do in life .not every one wants to be a big name dj or record colector in fact i no longer want to be apart of "the scene "

I think that's the case with a good 80 to 90% of people into the music Paul

Add to that the cost involved now with travelling around & I think that is the biggest reason the larger venues are suffering & smaller local nights are increasing.

I just think it will all level out in the end, some big venues will fall by the wayside but this 10/20% of hardcore 'scene' devotees will find the ones that suit them & still live the night life.

Whereas the local nights will just become a small get together for groups of friends to enjoy the style of NS they prefer.

Both can still be enjoyable to each section if they can just drop this notion that 'it's dying & it will never be as it was'.

It won't ! but if you accept that fact & move on it dosen't have to die & there can still be good times to be had.

[Guest]

Dullards are the serious problem. They need stamping out, and just because the play OV doesn't give them an excuse.

In my rather humble opinion, of course.

Yes DJ "Pottymouth" you have a valid point there

Derek

[Paul Shirley]

Are you really saying the scene you used to know was full of people putting their own nights on up against, Wigan, Rotherham and Stafford, or whenever your era was, sorry but I really dont think so

er? no did i say that ?? no i dont think so . but i do think a hell of a lot of people do know exactly what i meant and deep down i think you do . so am not going to bother my self in explaining it all . lets just say its full of egocentric people forcing and dictating there own opinions on every other bugger in short ..... full of t..ts

[Harry Crosby]

Are you really saying the scene you used to know was full of people putting their own nights on up against, Wigan, Rotherham and Stafford, or whenever your era was, sorry but I really dont think so

er? no did i say that ?? no i dont think so . but i do think a hell of a lot of people do know exactly what i meant and deep down i think you do . so am not going to bother my self in explaining it all . lets just say its full of egocentric people forcing and dictating there own opinions on every other bugger in short ..... full of t..ts

CORRECT! CORRECT! CORRECT well said that man

[Dennisoul]

Depends what label it's on Di! I only do original blends such as PG Tips or Tetley. I don't do imitations like Happy Shopper shite!

Hope you and H are ok.

[Guest Bogue]

Hello Bogue,

I felt more "bewildered" than "bemused". Which is worse?

Paul

I am reading this in bemusement now, seeing as i can't be bemused !

Are you a bloody English teacher too then ? Consider my knuckles well & truely rapped Sir ........ or should that be 'wrapped' ?

[Guest Paul]

I am reading this in bemusement now, seeing as i can't be bemused !

Are you a bloody English teacher too then ? Consider my knuckles well & truely rapped Sir ........ or should that be 'wrapped' ?

No, I think "bemused" means "confused", and it rhymes.

So it's the same thing, I think. I just wondered which word sounded better.

"Bemused" sounds a bit too middle-class for me.

Paul

[Paul Shirley]

i agree with you bogue .

[Harry Crosby]

Can someone tell me where i can get a copy of the northern soul rule book? then i can read up on it, and i won`t have people then telling me how and where i can enjoy myself, on my very preciouse weekends out

[Rushden Vic]

huh huh

Edited September 16, 2008 by beachcomber

[Wiganer1]

Can someone tell me where i can get a copy of the northern soul rule book? then i can read up on it, and i won`t have people then telling me how and where i can enjoy myself, on my very preciouse weekends out

=========

never a true word spoken harry....no one will ever tell me what i can play or not...healthy debate tho isnt it?

[Guest Paul]

Can someone tell me where i can get a copy of the northern soul rule book? then i can read up on it, and i won`t have people then telling me how and where i can enjoy myself, on my very preciouse weekends out

If there was such a book, Harry, it would be interesting to know who wrote it, who made the rules and who they consulted. And who they were "elected" by.

I don't remember voting for anyone to make rules that I should abide by. And I can't expect others to live by my rules.

I'm not a rebel but some rules are made to be broken.

So I'm told.

Paul

[jocko]

Are you really saying the scene you used to know was full of people putting their own nights on up against, Wigan, Rotherham and Stafford, or whenever your era was, sorry but I really dont think so

er? no did i say that ?? no i dont think so . but i do think a hell of a lot of people do know exactly what i meant and deep down i think you do . so am not going to bother my self in explaining it all . lets just say its full of egocentric people forcing and dictating there own opinions on every other bugger in short ..... full of t..ts

My last word on this as its going around in circles.

Crazy thing on this is if you read my posts I haven't actually expressed a view on what to play etc etc as its been done to death, all I have done is get pi**ed off with Paul's usual patronising stance and point out the current climate is killing the progressive northern scene and justifying my view on this

I have clearly said you do what you want, I am just pointing out the consequences of t his. Not quite sure why I am now this egocentric maniac, well I know why I am normally, but this thread does not in way make me worthy of that term.

So I surrender.

CORRECT! CORRECT! CORRECT well said that man

As one of Pete's proteges Harry I am sure you would have enjoyed this sort of debate in his company, what do you think he would have said to this just let it all happen attitude!

[Brookesy]

I've been reading this thread with interest and would just like to comment on one or two of the opinions expressed in it.

We run a venue that likes to think of itself as being a little different to most of the others in the area---quite difficult in this part of the country as it seems to be dominated by the Wigan oldies brigade. This manifests itself in the profusion of venues that operate in the locality, venues that spin not only 100% overplayed oldies but which also play boots, cd's, reissues, etc. I will not name these venues on here but within a 30 mile range I can think of over a dozen just off the top of my head.

The reason we started the soul nights at Burscough British Legion was simply to offer something different---we never claimed to be ultra rare or tried to compete with the nighters, we just wanted an alternative music policy. We play only 100% original vinyl and as I said before we steer away from the top 500, not an easy thing to do in this neck of the woods.

Many of the tunes we play are what I would call "underplayed oldies", mixed with nighter sounds and some rareities. We have endured criticism from all sides because of this---the oldies brigade who don't know most of the stuff we play and aren't prepared to give it a try and certain people on here who object to us running monthly soul nights which may or may not interfere with their precious allnighter scene.

We run our nights on the same Saturday of each month and we have clashed from time to time with some allnighters. This is not intentional and indeed it is the nighters that have changed their dates, so who is to blame? Are we not allowed to run monthly soul nights or do we have to get permission from the allnighter promoters before we arrange our dates? A number of people attend our venue and then go on to a nighter when these date clashes occur, so where is the conflict of interest there?

Sorry to go on a bit but some people on this forum are so far up their own behinds that they should shave their arses and walk backwards.

[Guest Paul]

...all I have done is get pi**ed off with Paul's usual patronising stance...

If you think I'm the one who was patronising, then I don't think you know what the word means.

After all, you're the one who was trying to tell me that my posting wasn't relevant. And you're the one who somehow managed to read things which hadn't been written or even implied.

I'm still bewildered.

Paul

[Drew3]

As nothing more than a 'punter' I have pretty much no idea about the sound quality of boots and carvers as opposed to originals. How could I, I'm in a dance hall of some discription when I hear the music!

However,the hypocricy of those who state that it must never be boots or carvers and only ever OV and then argue that it is ok to have an origional but play a carver, is deafening to my ears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KTF.

Drew.

[Guest]

i agree with you bogue .

no matter what format is played its still the original artist's ain't it..or don't that count..

[Harry Crosby]

My last word on this as its going around in circles.

Crazy thing on this is if you read my posts I haven't actually expressed a view on what to play etc etc as its been done to death, all I have done is get pi**ed off with Paul's usual patronising stance and point out the current climate is killing the progressive northern scene and justifying my view on this

I have clearly said you do what you want, I am just pointing out the consequences of t his. Not quite sure why I am now this egocentric maniac, well I know why I am normally, but this thread does not in way make me worthy of that term.

So I surrender.

As one of Pete's proteges Harry I am sure you would have enjoyed this sort of debate in his company, what do you think he would have said to this just let it all happen attitude!

he would have probably argued tooth and nail as we did on many occasions and i`m sure many others did with him over his views, but we had a mutual respect for each other and i would never have dictated to him what i thought he should do and vice versa, also ive mellowed wth age, and have realised no matter what you say you aint gonna change anything so i go along enjoying every minute of my soul life in every way possible the comments made are certainly not aimed at you personally, we all have our different opinions, i for one don`t like the idea that a few people seem to believe they have the right to tell others where they are going wrong, i personally am happy to do what i want when i want, personally i never got involved in anyting political on the scene and never really saw any of this it just seems nowadays its everywhere, you`d have thought with age we`d have all come closer together rather than drifting apart at every possible venture, i`m the first to admit that there needs to be newsounds introduced on the scene and applaud all forward thinking dj`s promoters etc, but the tide is against them unfortunatley, i started a night of underplayed sounds in a little local venue, and after doing a lot of asking people who all said yeh tht would be a great idea, the highest attendance we got was 40 in a 150 venue

yet the local lads down the road playing outplayed oldies in a 200-300 capacity hall packed the venue everytime, and the other thing is once at my underplayed night i advertised it as a free for all, bring a box and dj thing, guess wich night had the highest attendance at my venue, everyone wants to be a dj, but many aint, that thing that looks like an ice cream cones a microphone, and if used properly can be the best tool for creating atmosphere in a room, too many COLLECTORS just put record after record on without even uttering a word throughout there whole spot, thats my two penneth and now ive had my say on what seems to me to be a pointless excercise but remember please its only a personal opinion

[Guest gordon russell]

OVO - Creative Soul Functions which at this moment in time is Silks in Wellingborough.

I would just like to concur with Mr G.THIS WHOLE SCENE IS BUILT AROUND ORIGINALS so don,t go telling me all of a sudden ITS OK TO PLAY ANYTHING!!!!!

Another observation as a collector.I did not buy my vinyl to make a profit on,its a billy bonus.Dj,s get paid and in theory that money goes towards new tunes.If a club has decent equipment the condition of the records should not change too much!

are you saying SILKS is the only venue in that area playing ovo trev?

[Guest gordon russell]

having read a lot of the posts........I think it's the spirit of the matter (playing ovo) that counts. I will not go anywhere that has a dj or dj's that play boots ect,some of the onus is also on dj's if you follow someone who is quite clearly playing boots ..you should walk,also the promoter should keep an eye on proceedings and never book a dj who played boots.For those who say it dosn't matter...would you shell out £50 or more for tickets to see ...say the rolling stones...drive 100/200 miles to the venue only to be confronted with a lookalike band who sounded the same as the real stones.When you check your flyer it just says the rolling stones on it.Then as you are walking out moaning someone says to you ....don't know what your moaning at they sounded just the same....atb tezza

[Epic]

Can someone tell me where i can get a copy of the northern soul rule book? then i can read up on it, and i won`t have people then telling me how and where i can enjoy myself, on my very preciouse weekends out

Is this the original rule book or the later second issue with the added sections on dullards,chinstrokers & that actually enjoying yourself is frowned upon!!!

[Guest andrew bin]

If a track has never been issued, one copy for DJ use only & no financial gain............oh WTF why am I bothering, can someone else please explain this for me ......................

Russ

please explain to me if a track has never been issued or only issued on a CD and you have it cut on to carver how is it ov

don't you ever get paid for djing

i personaly don't have problem with this, i just cant see how this can be ov it's an unissued track copied on to a carver