Was reading another thread and picked up a quote from Campagnolo " Soul died when Wigan opened "

Of interest to me as some folk have Wigan as the birthplace of this scene, while others go back to Wheel etc, was there a big backlash among the wheel brigade and that era to the Wigan years??? or was it a hardcore with most drifting in to the Wigan scene as some natural progression...

I know of quite a few older friends who did the Wheel days, seemed to drift out of the scene during the nothern soul boom years of Wigan and come back onto the scene from the mid 80s onwards..

We hear about all the teenage thing and Wigan, but was there a certain ammount of older folk there too 20/30s?????????? or was it a total teenage northen soul revolution with the older crowd leaving the scene or running an alternate scene at the same time..

So with the quote "soul died when Wigan opened" does that mean soul died for good, was the start of Wigan the end for some with regards to the scene??

The nearest thing, to the casino for me, would be the first night at the rocket, ian levine going commando. doing a 2hours spot, stuff no one heard of, but everyone was up for it , full house over 2000, happy day's, cheers, Billy.

Wigan Casino - Best record bar EVER.

Regards,

Dave

Wigan Casino - Best record bar EVER.

Regards,

Dave

AGREED DAVE

I agree after 75, Wigan the music was dire and I stopped going........................., Sorry to disagree with you here Dave, but Richards playlists speak for themselves, along with Gary & Pat, to me those few years 77 onwards were the birth of the rare soul scene as we know it today, of course this is only my opinion

No Harry if you read my post again I said the best years at Wigan where the last years, and that is when I started going again.

Read again the 4th line down.

Edited December 6, 201014 yr by davetay

No Harry if you read my post again I said the best years at Wigan where the last years, and that is when I started going again.

OOOOPS SORRY DAVE, ME OLD PEEPERS AINT THAT GOOD NEVER MIND ME NOGGIN, WILL EDIT MATE

Wigan Casino - Best record bar EVER.

Regards,

Dave

Yes, it was nearly always good to double your money for records got at the Mecca on the same night.!

OOOOPS SORRY DAVE, ME OLD PEEPERS AINT THAT GOOD NEVER MIND ME NOGGIN, WILL EDIT MATE

Not a prob.

The original quote doesn't make much sense to me. If you trace the scene right back to early wheel days you'll find that there's always been oddball records played - no one club had the exclusivity on great records that's for sure. Also every 5 years or so brings a different turnover of people. I too knew original Wheel and Torch goers who didn't particularly like Wigan but I also know equally as many that loved it. My personal feelings are that Wigan was pretty hard to beat in those first two or three years but went off the boil a bit post '75..........

Ian D

Spot on Ian...............Wigan was good in its formative years,I had some fabulous nights in there (so I've been told!)..................but it did go very much off the boil for me and many "older" punters ................it lost its cool.

The analogy I would use is being used to the finest Malt Whisky that money can buy........................................then being offered Bells and water.

It took a small,intense,whirlwind,madcap 100mile an hour experience where you would know the majority of people who went and have a blast with into a coach trip club experience,with cartoon clothes(had to get that in),and too many youngsters.

But...................but ................that is just my opinion on the club scene....................Soul did not die when Wigan opened,just the type of club and attendees we were used to.

Steve.

Yes, it was nearly always good to double your money for records got at the Mecca on the same night.!

Or buy a fistload of 45s from some blocked up, paranoic, gumchewing lunatic!

I remember buying TMG 500s (Stockers mind!), at 20p a throw one night. Almost bought the whole UK TMG catalogue!

Happy Days!

Regards,

Dave

From 78 to 81 the playlists of pat brady-sam-richard searling -raistrick etc had a massive effect on the underground eighties scene -it wasnt all joe 90 etc,can remember dancing to George Kirby etc very slow tempo and thinking WOW THIS IS IT -Stafford etc to me just carried it on in all fairness.The casino broke some simply incredible records -as for the age thing well our bus ranged from 14 to lads/lasses in their early thirties,some curious some old torchites etc,all out for a good night.

The mod revival of 79 to me brought alot of strangers to the casino -people that went for the music many didnt give a shite aboout the fashion "some of the pics of us lot can certainly validate that lol",all in all i had some momments there dancing to Joe Mathnews -Vicky Baines etcv that will take some beating -eighties was better cos I had the cash to buy some of the sounds spun at the casiino however lol!!

The place gets alot of shit thrown at it due to the commercialisation of the scene and the nostalgia etc -it was still a shit hot soul club-certainly would of blown the arse off most of the dos now excluding some of the more forward thinking ones- the record bar was great fun also.

BAZ A

I have never felt that I missed out.

I would have gone had I had the opportunity but I didn't. But why would I be made to feel like I missed out?

In the same way I don't hark back to the good old days (my good old days that is - Stafford, Shotts etc). What is the point?

Live in the here and now - it is really quite good here.

spot on jumping

Or buy a fistload of 45s from some blocked up, paranoic, gumchewing lunatic!

I remember buying TMG 500s (Stockers mind!), at 20p a throw one night. Almost bought the whole UK TMG catalogue!

Happy Days!

Regards,

Dave

The thing is Dave, when you talk about buying and selling records for pence not pounds, some of the younger ones can't get it.

Talking of 500s, I was one working in a house in Bolton mid 70s, and when I took out the rubbish to the bin.

There was about 60 of then in there, so I asked what are the records doing in the bin.

The house owner said we don't listen that shit any more, we are into J. Tull etc.

So the records came home with me.

Or buy a fistload of 45s from some blocked up, paranoic, gumchewing lunatic!

I remember buying TMG 500s (Stockers mind!), at 20p a throw one night. Almost bought the whole UK TMG catalogue!

Happy Days!

Regards,

Dave

oops posted twice.

Edited December 6, 201014 yr by davetay

This is just so true. Hardly anyone questioned whether it was "proper soul" or not, they just say they did NOW. The scene wouldn't have been the same without a lot of those records, Mike Post, Jeanette Harper, Mickey Moonshine, they were great all nighter sounds.

I'm afraid I still feel the same. If it's good Northern Soul, I'll take it, whoever the artist is, I don't try to track down the singers ancestry first.

spot on pete. sometimes knowledge can be harmful. really its better just to listen to the records and take them at face value. rather than digging for info. sometimes we might not like what we find

dave

spot on pete. sometimes knowledge can be harmful. really its better just to listen to the records and take them at face value. rather than digging for info. sometimes we might not like what we find

dave

Too true Dave - Hence - A LITTLE TOGETHERNESS THATS ALL WE NEED.

How can people miss out? Soul is born whenever you get into it.

Me, I am born again to soul every time I go out

I'm with you - i'm born again

Wigan was the first real soul place I ever went to, the first all-niter I ever went to and for me was, and still is, a magical special place.

The whole week was spent, for me and many like me, just waiting for the weekend to go to The casino. The whole experience, the journey there, the journey home, the recreational pharmaceuticals, the latest record purchase, the new sound you heard for the first time, seeing mates from across the land. Magic!

Phil

Pookie Hudson a pop tune and being compared to Tony Blackburn?

I've heard it all now.

Couldn't agree more Pete - like chalk & cheese

without a doubt the casino popularised northern soul to the masses, none more so than footsee being danced to on totp....good or bad its a fact...it had its good points with breaking new sounds to a massive audience and its bad points with the pop drivel and tailor mades, if it had only lasted a year or so , somewhere else would have taken the mantle as wigan did after the torch, and the torch did after the wheel, not forgetting the mecca cats etc.

Of all the soul clubs I've been to if I had the chance to go back to one of them for one night only then Station Road it would be, (and if it had to be when Lenny Gamble etc were being played then so be it), the rest of the playlists would compensate, without a shadow of a doubt. Nothing has ever come close to recreating that buzz as you entered the record bar, wheeling, dealing, then once deals done, into that cavenous dancehall, rammed with 1500 people all on the same wavelength, while the regular world slept. Wouldn't change a thing!

Regards,

Dave

HAPPY NIGHTS FOR ME ANYWAY AND IT SEEMS LIKE QUITE A FEW MORE .

Edited December 7, 201014 yr by POTTERIESPECK

Its funny thinking back to 77 when some of those oldies were only 12 years old from the day they were recorded and they sounded totally different at Wigan. Soul died but Northern was born.

Of all the soul clubs I've been to if I had the chance to go back to one of them for one night only then Station Road it would be, (and if it had to be when Lenny Gamble etc were being played then so be it), the rest of the playlists would compensate, without a shadow of a doubt. Nothing has ever come close to recreating that buzz as you entered the record bar, wheeling, dealing, then once deals done, into that cavenous dancehall, rammed with 1500 people all on the same wavelength, while the regular world slept. Wouldn't change a thing!

Regards,

Dave

Couldn't have put it better myself. Beautiful description Dave and bang on the money. Bought the first copy of the Tomangoes off Kev in the record bar and boy was I sweating that night! Bought the second copy of the Detroit Executives off Russ on the stage and couldn't believe my luck. Never did get that Invitations off Snowy but I've lost count of the hundreds of killer tunes I did get in that record bar from 50p to a couple of quid a pop. It was a vinyl fix every week.

Sometimes, after I'd done a deal, I used to go upstairs by myself and sit by the edge of the balcony and just soak up the atmospherem watch those 1500 people dancing and feel a real glow of contentment that I was on the most happening scene in the world. And right there, at that moment in time, I was!

Ian D

Couldn't have put it better myself. Beautiful description Dave and bang on the money. Bought the first copy of the Tomangoes off Kev in the record bar and boy was I sweating that night! Bought the second copy of the Detroit Executives off Russ on the stage and couldn't believe my luck. Never did get that Invitations off Snowy but I've lost count of the hundreds of killer tunes I did get in that record bar from 50p to a couple of quid a pop. It was a vinyl fix every week.

Sometimes, after I'd done a deal, I used to go upstairs by myself and sit by the edge of the balcony and just soak up the atmospherem watch those 1500 people dancing and feel a real glow of contentment that I was on the most happening scene in the world. And right there, at that moment in time, I was!

Ian D

SUPERB IAN AND I'M GLAD I WAS TO

What A Crazy Statement ! !

Cue,,,, Kev Roberts,,,, Dont think Kev did the first night but HE cerainly has a good insite to records that were broke there during his short time,,, and believe me theres some sounds that are massive to this day that were Wigan Floor emptiers too!!

The original statement the geezers may have been quoted out of context or is a complete igneranus!!

If ya young back then,,, Wigan was an exciting natural obvious progression from the Wheel, Blackpool Meca Rare Soul 71, Catacombs, Torch , Va va,,, then Wigan and so son!,,, Plus all the satalite smaller venues!!

Sure nearly all these classic clubs have played some shite records st somepoint ,,, but SURLEY alll the crap that may have been played was surpassed by some of the most fantastic Soul Records found and spun by collectors and Rare Soul DJs on this scene of ours!!

Nige B

hi Nige,you are of course right in what you say ,there are some"BRILLIANT TUNES "that came out of Wigan,I POSTED the comment tongue in cheek.as a sixties mod I am of slightly biased as we didn't

feel the need to display silly badges on our(wheel) bags & clothing.So this is more of a grumpy old man thing rather than a" deeply profound life altering statement ".

p.s.it's started somethin though.???

hi Nige,you are of course right in what you say ,there are some"BRILLIANT TUNES "that came out of Wigan,I POSTED the comment tongue in cheek.as a sixties mod I am of slightly biased as we didn't

feel the need to display silly badges on our(wheel) bags & clothing.So this is more of a grumpy old man thing rather than a" deeply profound life altering statement ".

p.s.it's started somethin though.???

It Could Only Happen To You Steve !! :D Atb John See You At Rammy !!

The problem that the older crew had was that Wigan had made Northern Soul popular....a fact they didn't like....Like so many people(even now) they think that Northern Soul is exclusively theirs.....it's not it belongs to everyone of us!

You miss the point!! for a start it wasnt" Northern soul"it was "SOUL" .it was when it became "Northern" everybody & his dog got into it .that's what "pissed "me off at the time thank goodness

for Blackpool Mecca .NO SILLY BADGES ,NO (NOT MANY)BAGGIES.

Great tunes,great times.p.s.how come so many people on here know so much about how it was when they "WERE'NT EVEN BORN" or is it just me???

hi Nige,you are of course right in what you say ,there are some"BRILLIANT TUNES "that came out of Wigan,I POSTED the comment tongue in cheek.as a sixties mod I am of slightly biased as we didn't

feel the need to display silly badges on our(wheel) bags & clothing.So this is more of a grumpy old man thing rather than a" deeply profound life altering statement ".

p.s.it's started somethin though.???

Hope you did not mind me quoting you Steve..

Yes its started something...

Some good insight coming from the thread..

Don't think you will be getting death threats

The tongue in cheek comments without emoticons like etc etc do stir the hornets nest at times...

was wigan the real start of the badges on clothing/ bags?? or did this come from elsewhere??? was it a gradual thing or did it explode overnight..???

people can have a sense of missing out on Wigan just like missing out on seeing certain footballers or band.. Many people have been fed great stories of the past and can feel they have missed out on what sounds like fantastic times... It can dominate your very existense.. Or you can just embrace certain things from history that you see as positive but live in the now...

It serves no possitive purpose maybe, to hang on to dreams/ that will never be real but human nature is a strange beast, we all take comfort from different places...

,

exactly !....there have been legendary clubs,bands,styles of music and we have all got our own memories of being there at the right time i would hope !...

i was way too young for wigan..i knew about soul as my older bruv was probably on the coach with billy going to yate,st ives etc.....but for me i came along in the mid 80s via the scooter scene and i know people who have got into that in the last 10 years and look back and listen to my stories of 5-10 000 scooterists rallying every 3 weeks and them wishing they were there,thinkin they missed out...

so no ...soul did not die with wigan ...even if they played a few pop tunes that wouldnt get spun today...same as custom scooters didnt finish with jeremy howlett (80s scooterists amoung you will know that name!!)...there have been lots of soulful wax and venues since and will be more to come...life goes on...enjoy it now....no doubt there will be a day when people look back and think they missed out cos they werent at the 100 club,kings hall , bidds or go go children ...i reckon anyway

dean

Pookie Hudson a pop tune and being compared to Tony Blackburn?

I've heard it all now.

totally agree Pookies tunes are pure class

soul comes from the heart, not from any individual club, just look at any soul dancefloor and you will see if soul has died

Those afore mentioned records may not be Soul but what they are is Northern Soul!

Great Stuff!!

dave godin coined the phrase NORTHERN SOUL meaning the SOUL music played OOP NORTH being different from that being played darn sarf..............it did not mean all that pop,poop that was played over the years was or has any place on the soul scene. I find it strange that some folk can baulk at some of the great soul played in recent years as being not up to much............yet continue to love all that out and out pop sh*te that was played.........just cause it was played at WIGIN

dave godin coined the phrase NORTHERN SOUL meaning the SOUL music played OOP NORTH being different from that being played darn sarf..............it did not mean all that pop,poop that was played over the years was or has any place on the soul scene. I find it strange that some folk can baulk at some of the great soul played in recent years as being not up to much............yet continue to love all that out and out pop sh*te that was played.........just cause it was played at WIGIN

I have never figured out why , when there were excellent records available to certain DJs to play , why was preference given to the pop - slanted recordings ?

Malc

Probably cos they filled the dance-floor Malc..

So that is the reason why the others were " passed over " then ........

Malc

74 was my first night at the Casino, but I had been into Northern for 3 or 4 years by then. We used to either get the bus after the Mecca or hire a mini bus from Burnley.

The records and atmosphere was great, but if I couldn't make Wigan because of playing football on Sunday, we would just go somewhere else, admittedly not to an all nighter.

I didn't at the time think I was going to Wigan, I was just going to a soul do, but eventually I did start to miss Wigan if I had a couple of weeks without going.

I was 20 when I first went to the Casino and did 2 years or so. There were older lads down at first, we used to think they were ex Wheelers. The guys from Wolves seemed older than us so I think we classed them as Torchites.

Slowly we became some of the oldest, and I did start to think that kids were appearing and generally taking over. The records did dip in 76, but there will still some fantastic discoveries.

I did not like the "disco" split in the scene and hated the 70s stuff. When I came back onto the scene in 90 I swiftly realised that I had missed some awesome stuff, even though I regularly bought tapes off Pete Smith so kept abreast to a degree. I also bought loads of Kent LPs to keep up.

I don't think the records that are discovered now are quite as good as 71 to 81 but I am still being suprised at the quality of some of the stuff I come across on You Tube and Refo soul.

I like to hear new and different stuff and will never knock todays more diverse scene, but I echo another Burnley lad Dave Moore, in that if I had 1 trip to a soul do in the past it would have to be the Casino in74 to hear Larry Atkins telling me Ain't That Love Enough!

If I couldn't get there it would be to the Mecca on the night that Steve Lane had his 17 inch vent turned into a 34 inch vent. That was funny.

Could someone tell me if the guy in the photo above with a triangle on the front of his t shirt is John Roscoe from Burnley?

Hope you did not mind me quoting you Steve..

Yes its started something...

Some good insight coming from the thread..

Don't think you will be getting death threats

The tongue in cheek comments without emoticons like etc etc do stir the hornets nest at times...

was wigan the real start of the badges on clothing/ bags?? or did this come from elsewhere??? was it a gradual thing or did it explode overnight..???

The badge thing was a gradual thing that exploded at Wigan and other nighters/ dayers mid 70s

My own badge wearing days.....Pre-Wigan

I had a Pendulum badge on a Jay-Tex t-shirt (still got the badge)

I had a Va-Va's badge on a jacket (that I let a girl borrow, never saw her again) lol

Wigan days

Red Wigan badge and Heart of Soul badge on a cardi. (still got them)

Okeh badge on a jumper (now lost)

By the time of the 1st Anniversary badge sept 74 I had stopped wearing badges (still got 1st ann unused)

Still got 5/6 more unused ones.

I never but any badges on any holdall that I had back than.

I have also got a Accrington Legion Soul Club blazer badge that we had made from a shop in Manchester Market. (again unused)

I hope that helps you abit Steve.

Dave.

I like to hear new and different stuff and will never knock todays more diverse scene, but I echo another Burnley lad Dave Moore, in that if I had 1 trip to a soul do in the past it would have to be the Casino in74 to hear Larry Atkins telling me Ain't That Love Enough!

If I couldn't get there it would be to the Mecca on the night that Steve Lane had his 17 inch vent turned into a 34 inch vent. That was funny.

Could someone tell me if the guy in the photo above with a triangle on the front of his t shirt is John Roscoe from Burnley?

Bloody hell Brian, John Roscoe that's a name from the past,

I remember buying some records off him and he used to bring records to the Legion for us to play.

I will remind Steve about his 34in vent when I see him on NYE.

i must be going blind I can't find the photo of lad in triangle t shirt.

Was going to read this thread but then thought " cant be arsed" same old pro/anti wigan comments

The years I went 73-75 ( what happened after that I can't comment on) gave me my love of the music and the scene but It brought other types of music within our radar. To me it was just a place to go after work on a saturday night to hear fantastic music.

To be honest I have heard far better music in the last 7 years I have been back on the scene than I did in those 2 years. But no I don't think it killed it. It kept it alive to many people who have stayed on the scene for all these years because of it we have got to listen and dance to many of the fantastic discoveries that they have made since and keeping them on the scene passionatley discovering new stuff for us to listen and dance to.

QoFxx

Edited December 9, 201014 yr by chrissie

soul music was played at many clubs well before any northern soul allnighter ,lol so they didnt play any pop tunes at the wheel then georgie fame and spencer davis and lots n lots more like them all played at the wheel, to be fair and i think correct .the sink club in liverpool was playing more pure black soul music and so did many other clubs around those times . the diference being they didnt run a nighter and use the term northern soul ,

as for the casino it ran every week for a good few years .when the others mentiond just came and went in no time at all , so lets not gett carrid away in having yet another pop at the best allnighter thats ever been and gone . for me and so many others that went up there .it was a time that was very special the atmosphere the sheer number of people 1500 to over 2400 people in the early days . i personly was influanced by my friends who prefared mrms as for me thats where the party was with an atmosphere ive never experianced ever since ,

but that was then. its been and gone and i prefare not to look back and compare , just enjoy whats going on now !!

soul music was played at many clubs well before any northern soul allnighter ,lol so they didnt play any pop tunes at the wheel then georgie fame and spencer davis and lots n lots more like them all played at the wheel, to be fair and i think correct .the sink club in liverpool was playing more pure black soul music and so did many other clubs around those times . the diference being they didnt run a nighter and use the term northern soul ,

as for the casino it ran every week for a good few years .when the others mentiond just came and went in no time at all , so lets not gett carrid away in having yet another pop at the best allnighter thats ever been and gone . for me and so many others that went up there .it was a time that was very special the atmosphere the sheer number of people 1500 to over 2400 people in the early days . i personly was influanced by my friends who prefared mrms as for me thats where the party was with an atmosphere ive never experianced ever since ,

but that was then. its been and gone and i prefare not to look back and compare , just enjoy whats going on now !!

Well said

Yes, ridiculous comparison, smack that boys legs!!

One thing about Wigan Casino was that it allowed access to everyone under one roof, nighter venues didnt last too long and were scattered all over the country but all that changed on September 23rd 1973.

The thread title "Soul died when Wigan opened".(not the title of the original post by CAMPAGNOLO)....silly statement really, I think Nothern Sul was probably born when Wigan opened!

The all nighter venues pre-Wigan were little scruffy underground clubs with a tight atmosphere....not exclusive or even known to the outside world. Most of us knew eachother, lets face it we all talked a lot and made good friends easy in those days The Casino took that to another level and a lot of people werent really ready for the influx of new and mostly younger "aliens"- "teeny boppers" but the scene was evolving and some of us "Grandads" were waking up with bigger commitments, I got married in 74 so the scene for me came to an end a year or so after that.....I hated the TV stuff and Tony Blackburn and even the live acts.

But at the end of the day Wigan had a massive positive effect on the northern soul scene and I really dont think it would exist today it it hadnt happened.

It will never die!

Doe.you muppets,the thread that the person started was only a line from my rant on "SOUL". his title is a bit of the text if you had read the piece it would have made more sence(or not)?

Every now and then you get someone trying to be controversial making f*cking ridiculous statements like that.

It's pathetic.

iF YOU HAD TAKEN THE F*KING TROUBLE TO READ THE ORIGINAL PIECE IN IT'S ENTIRETY ,IT MAY NOT HAVE SEEMED SO F*KING RIDICULOUS!!!!!!

,THATS THE LAST TIME I OFER YOU ADVICE ON YOUR DRAINS?????(DID YOU SORT IT PETE)?

h'mmmm - i'd liken Wigan to Primark - a great big fuckin place where theres loads of people you wish were fuckin somewhere else - cheap and cheerful but not exactly the real deal and you know its all a bit tacky!!! ha ha ha

h'mmmm - i'd liken Wigan to Primark - a great big fuckin place where theres loads of people you wish were fuckin somewhere else - cheap and cheerful but not exactly the real deal and you know its all a bit tacky!!! ha ha ha

Very clever..

An academic link to Primark and its dealings with sweat shops....

Wigan wasn't open in 1969 was it..................

iF YOU HAD TAKEN THE F*KING TROUBLE TO READ THE ORIGINAL PIECE IN IT'S ENTIRETY ,IT MAY NOT HAVE SEEMED SO F*KING RIDICULOUS!!!!!!

,THATS THE LAST TIME I OFER YOU ADVICE ON YOUR DRAINS?????(DID YOU SORT IT PETE)?

Yeah sort of

h'mmmm - i'd liken Wigan to Primark - a great big fuckin place where theres loads of people you wish were fuckin somewhere else - cheap and cheerful but not exactly the real deal and you know its all a bit tacky!!! ha ha ha

Except a lot of us would pay a thousand quid just to relive one more night there.

More Harrods than Primark.

iF YOU HAD TAKEN THE F*KING TROUBLE TO READ THE ORIGINAL PIECE IN IT'S ENTIRETY ,IT MAY NOT HAVE SEEMED SO F*KING RIDICULOUS!!!!!!

,THATS THE LAST TIME I OFER YOU ADVICE ON YOUR DRAINS?????(DID YOU SORT IT PETE)?

Steve!! What The F**k are You Doing Giving Advice On Pete's Waterworks ?? :lol: :lol:

Wigan wasn't open in 1969 was it..................

Wigan Was But The Casino Wasn't !!

Every era had played it's fair share of turkeys. Every era has passed over and ignored quality records for what are considered less worthy.

The "northern soul" scene has never been just about soul music or even the quality, never will either.

When you are young and off your face you will dance to anything, within reason. As you mature it is fair to say your tastes mature as well.