Soul Died When Wigan Opened

[Geeselad]

Am I right in saying that people tended to get married much earlier backi then which may account for the lack of late 2o somethings on the scene.

[Roburt]

Yea, people could afford to buy / rent their own place in their early 20's back then and so tended to 'settle down' much earlier.

Now, loads of 'kids' sponge off their parents (& live at 'home') till they are in their mid to late 30's ..... so they go out more in their late 20's / 30's than most did 'back in the day'.

[Mike]

Am I right in saying that people tended to get married much earlier backi then which may account for the lack of late 2o somethings on the scene.

they always used to make me smile

a couple of years older than you

used to see then in local pubs when meeting up to go somewhere

sitting round one of those just room for two tables with their bored wife who was always a spitting image of thelma from the likely lads, wearing a out of date feather cut and wrangler jacket and nursing a long lasting pint of bitter

someone would say "see him, he used to be well into...."

"yeah used to be, not now..." was the sort of attitude that sure every one at that dogs bollocks age had at some time

then it be out and off to the station, leaving them to their vesta curry and match of the day

fast forward a couple of years and ...

[Roburt]

We were all very forgiving back in the mid to late 60's (NOT) ....

We used to take the piss out of the older lads who we had started attending allniters with but who had now stopped going (staying back in a hometown pub with their girlfriends) .....

.... whilst also moaning on & on about the 'mini-mod' 15 / 16 year olds who were trying out allniters for the 1st time ad thus spoiling OUR VENUES.

Two years down the line and we had joined the crowd staying back in a hometown pub with their girlfriends, whilst the 'mini-mods' had turned into the 'main-players' attending dumps like the Casino.

[Chas]

Beefour i whent to wigan i cudnt even spel nothen sole fan,an now i are one.!

[macca]

Off topic...

Edited May 24, 2012 by macca

[Geeselad]

they always used to make me smile

a couple of years older than you

used to see then in local pubs when meeting up to go somewhere

sitting round one of those just room for two tables with their bored wife who was always a spitting image of thelma from the likely lads, wearing a out of date feather cut and wrangler jacket and nursing a long lasting pint of bitter

someone would say "see him, he used to be well into...."

"yeah used to be, not now..." was the sort of attitude that sure every one at that dogs bollocks age had at some time

then it be out and off to the station, leaving them to their vesta curry and match of the day

fast forward a couple of years and ...

they always used to make me smile

a couple of years older than you

used to see then in local pubs when meeting up to go somewhere

sitting round one of those just room for two tables with their bored wife who was always a spitting image of thelma from the likely lads, wearing a out of date feather cut and wrangler jacket and nursing a long lasting pint of bitter

someone would say "see him, he used to be well into...."

"yeah used to be, not now..." was the sort of attitude that sure every one at that dogs bollocks age had at some time

then it be out and off to the station, leaving them to their vesta curry and match of the day

fast forward a couple of years and ...

In fairness there was loads more cultural pressure to do the decent thing back in the earlt 7ts. The thelma image sprung to my mind too.

[Goldsoul]

..l

Edited May 24, 2012 by The Golden 101

[Goldsoul]

And, much as it pains me to say this-the quality of the tunes improved when Kev Roberts got involved in those early days.

.

Tony

You are too kind Tony. See you at the Tower or Kings Hall Stoke.

Edited May 25, 2012 by The Golden 101

[Citizen P]

Credit where it's due...

T

[ste gal 7]

if you think it died then it did, if you think it didnt then it didn,t its just a matter of opinion, things change its as simple as that. now that i need slimming tablets i wont take them, now that i dont need to be up all night i cant sleep, one thing is for sure am avin 8 pints tnite casino or no casino

[Roburt]

Don't want to start a war (& my personal anti-Casino opinion doesn't matter much)....

... but the sounds played at the Wheel, Junction, Va-Va's, Torch, Blackpool Mecca were around 95% fine (IMHO) whereas the sounds played at the Casino were only around 60 to 70% right (too many pop items, mindless instros, stomper tempo soulless cuts by far). In the venue's declining years, rival niters in places such as Rotherham, Cleggy & Sheffield (+ Loughboro, Warrington & Leicester) seemed to get the sounds 'back on track' but things went a lot array in Wigan's major years.

[Steve L]

Don't want to start a war (& my personal anti-Casino opinion doesn't matter much)....

... but the sounds played at the Wheel, Junction, Va-Va's, Torch, Blackpool Mecca were around 95% fine (IMHO) whereas the sounds played at the Casino were only around 60 to 70% right (too many pop items, mindless instros, stomper tempo soulless cuts by far). In the venue's declining years, rival niters in places such as Rotherham, Cleggy & Sheffield (+ Loughboro, Warrington & Leicester) seemed to get the sounds 'back on track' but things went a lot array in Wigan's major years.

You won't start a war, I don't think many people would disagree with that

[Guest mickeyfish58]

Yea, people could afford to buy / rent their own place in their early 20's back then and so tended to 'settle down' much earlier.

Now, loads of 'kids' sponge off their parents (& live at 'home') till they are in their mid to late 30's ..... so they go out more in their late 20's / 30's than most did 'back in the day'.

would have to disagree about being able to afford to buy a place back in those good old days, i can remember having to put ?? number of pounds into halifax building society every month for a couple of years before they would even consider you for a house loan then you had to find a big chunk for deposit

[Guest mickeyfish58]

personaly i think we are just a nation of downers we find it hard to accept that something or someone as done good and just cannot wait for them to fall on their face eg england football team = we can all pick a better team than the current manager etc.

i went to wigan in the early years and the music they played then is still getting played at venues now, so it must in general have been ok, sure some rubbish was played imo but thats all it is =my opinion and if we all had the same opinion our great music would not be or never would have been what it is today FANTASTIC we would have been just like the masses. Long live our great soul scene, still keeping the faith and always will do

MICKEYFISH

[Guest]

Indeed it is about opinions..

The original question was based on the quote of a person i guess was there at the start of the underground scene and how his/ her views to the changing times and the birth of Wigan..

Maybe the member i quoted will comment, that could give an insight to their feelings at the time..

Was this a quote of back in the day or a view looking back with hindsight????

The soul V Northern soul is another question that comes up all the time... I am a lover of soul music, some Northern comes into that category, some are lovers of their take on Northern soul, for some its just the beat that gets them hooked, for me it was the soulful content first and if that came with a great beat then all my birthdays had come at once....

Like i said before, the original quote could have meant "soul" with regards to the underground going overground and the scene losing its cool.. Rather like the original mods who left the scene before 64 and the Brighton beach fights, a time when mod was no longer a small tight underground scene that few knew about..

More view from older members who lived the times could help us get a grasp of the original quote...

Some site Wigan as losing its soul after a period of time (77 ) while this quote looks to say it was the case from the start in 1973...

I went at 14 in '74 STEVE and after going to your local Top Ranks and Mecca Dancehalls, believe me mate, walking in there to me, felt like walking onto another planet.....The atmosphere, the size, just the sight of the dancefloor was a fantastic experience, mindblowing on my first night....The eternal arguments about sounds aside, I think the lad who mentioned MINISTRY OF SOUND probably had it close, being that it was a lot about being part of something, something that was most certainly 'a happening' and of it's time...I was the only kid in my school who was going so that made me feel like I was part of something special...Course if you were 22 at the time, (and there were defo older guys like that in there, two took me on my first night) must have been a slightly different experience but one thing is for sure, there are a shitload of people who went in those 74-76 years who then stayed with the soul scene - perhaps on an off in some cases - for a lifetime, so there must have been something pretty magical about it....I was well out of the game by 1977 due to the intervention of Her Majesty and I never went back...Feel like I missed out on the best Searling period musically, but had no choice mate! By the time I came home in '79, the mod revival was in full swing and I never went again.....

[skiinspain]

After pages and pages of the same old thing the same old way AGAINNNNNNNNNNNN I feel I must put in a word for the PENDULEM CLUB right in between the Wheel, Torch, Mecca, Wigan and yes I was there at the time being 16 in 1970. Most of these latter named clubs where bigger but no better, such a shame that like most good things in life, time at the PENDULEM was short and sweet for a small venue which was special many great tracks I heard played there first. Shame it never gets more of a mention, mind you it only had about 600 - 700 members registered ehhhhh , a Soul Club with character. Still a few left in the U.K. but not many that try to stick to what matters and do not worry about exposure, only the MUSIC matters and everything and everyone else is just a by product of it. Here's to all the original artists that produced these sounds, so let's keep Diggin for fresh tunes from them as a never ending tribute and move on. Don't be complacent expect the best when you travel out, there is no reason in the world why you should go to a night out and be disappointed with the music, but many will this weekend. SHAME!!!! stop living in a bubble and break out be brave open your ears and try something new. Just my opinion.

[Citizen P]

After pages and pages of the same old thing the same old way AGAINNNNNNNNNNNN I feel I must put in a word for the PENDULEM CLUB right in between the Wheel, Torch, Mecca, Wigan and yes I was there at the time being 16 in 1970. Most of these latter named clubs where bigger but no better, such a shame that like most good things in life, time at the PENDULEM was short and sweet for a small venue which was special many great tracks I heard played there first. Shame it never gets more of a mention, mind you it only had about 600 - 700 members registered ehhhhh , a Soul Club with character. Still a few left in the U.K. but not many that try to stick to what matters and do not worry about exposure, only the MUSIC matters and everything and everyone else is just a by product of it. Here's to all the original artists that produced these sounds, so let's keep Diggin for fresh tunes from them as a never ending tribute and move on. Don't be complacent expect the best when you travel out, there is no reason in the world why you should go to a night out and be disappointed with the music, but many will this weekend. SHAME!!!! stop living in a bubble and break out be brave open your ears and try something new. Just my opinion.

Well said..

And The Pedulum was my first PROPER Soul club, also aged 16( but in '72)....

It just blew everything I thought I knew out of the water

ATB

Tony

[kevinsoulman]

SINCE WHEN WAS SOUL SUCH A MAIN PART OF NORTHERN SOUL IN THOSE HEADY DAYS WHEN IT WAS THE MUSIC/BEAT THAT COUNTED.

NOW FAST FORWARD 30 ODD YEARS WHEN WE HAVE ALL GROWN UP WHY TRY TO PICK ON WIGAN CASINO AS THE DEMON CHILD .

JUST MY HONEST OPINION

KEV

[Mike]

to me it was always a main part

after all if you take away the soul are you not just left with 60s disco music ?

[Soulman]

SINCE WHEN WAS SOUL SUCH A MAIN PART OF NORTHERN SOUL IN THOSE HEADY DAYS WHEN IT WAS THE MUSIC/BEAT THAT COUNTED.

NOW FAST FORWARD 30 ODD YEARS WHEN WE HAVE ALL GROWN UP WHY TRY TO PICK ON WIGAN CASINO AS THE DEMON CHILD .

JUST MY HONEST OPINION

KEV

Wigan was never the "Demon Child". It was the benchmark. It happened at a time when the Tv industry started taking notice in underground music... hence the documentary. I still maintain, had it not been for said documentary, we would not have had so many people join the scene at the time. How many stayed... who knows but what it did was draw curiosity from those that fleeted on the outskirts of our music culture. As Kevin has said, in a round about way, the whiole thing about Northern Soul is that it is a dance music culture. In that sense, the dance floor rules, the dancers rule. If they like a tuune it becomes a Northern Soul Hit. Black, White, Japanese... it doesn't matter where the origin relates to.... it's the beat that get's you on the floor, gets your juices flowing and the sweat dripping, its all abou the music. Wigan, to many, may have lost its way because of certain DJ's trying to keep something that was big at the time..."big". You adapt. It's business. There were those who didn't look at the financial gain and concentrated on the music... a certain Richard S. He ALONE and I repeat Alone paved the way for the music we hear now. He moulded the pattern that Stafford, Keele etc would take. He strated introducing the slower paced Soul that would eventuallylead to beat ballads, he championed Modern soul. Without Wigan... who knows where we would be. The old clips are played to death and are far removed from what Wigan had to offer in it's latter days. The early days were a fashion... a fad. The latter end before Richard left were the formative years of what is todays Soul muisc scene. Long live Wigan for what it both did and didn't do.

Steve

[Guest mickeyfish58]

personaly i think we are just a nation of downers we find it hard to accept that something or someone as done good and just cannot wait for them to fall on their face eg england football team = we can all pick a better team than the current manager etc.

i went to wigan in the early years and the music they played then is still getting played at venues now, so it must in general have been ok, sure some rubbish was played imo but thats all it is =my opinion and if we all had the same opinion our great music would not be or never would have been what it is today FANTASTIC we would have been just like the masses. Long live our great soul scene, still keeping the faith and always will do

MICKEYFISH

this is just my humble opinion and i am not and never will slate other people for their opinion, we are all entitled to one

[sir cumference]

Think back-when we were all asked if WE wanted the cameras,it was a definite no!But they came anyway-that must have been a commercial decision.The die was cast,it was the Casinos fault according to many on here.

Re-read Tim Ashibende`s post-he has got it spot on.It`s just not the done thing to actually give the Casino any(or not much)credit.

Personally I`ve always shied away from calling the music Northern Soul,I just call it Northern.