In response to a post on another thread, I wrote this reply:

Some people are just sh*t scared to tell the truth.....originaal format or dont bother to DJ, I dont care who the f*ck is DJing.

Everything that I ever held dear about this wonderful scene is being eroded, not only that, when you state the obvious you'll beaten into submission by an endless stream of folk defending why apparently its now fine, for some to commit herasy because theyre considered royalty.

You can come on SS/FB/ & any type of media social network you can name & defend this practice until you are blue in the face....you are all fakes who have forgotten what this is all about.

I dont really give a f*ck, I would rather stick pins in my own eyes than pandy to this watered down, sad imitation of an excuse for a rare soul scene....now some will be, calm down, whats the problem, we've done this before blah, blah, blah....but I for one will not let the 'divs' n fakers get away withit......nothing anyone can say or do will make this right within the context of the rare soul scene & I refuse to give in or shut up about it, its what they want.....

Dont give up the dream & do not except anything other than the real deal....we may now be in the minority, but we are in the right & we have right on our side.....even tho on other forums you'll get the snide comments & the ones that will s*ck any old DJ's c*ck just cos they heard em play a great set 35 years ago in some god forsaken Northern town or city....if you aint got the gear dont except the gig......not only that avoid the places that except this fakery, you dont have to except it & you are right not to except....dont be brow beaten into thinking this is right, stand up & demand your right to be given the original format not a cheap immitation....

Roger Williams in reply wrote 'Drama Queen'

Now altho we havnt seen each other for some years, I class Roger as a friend. I know Rogers feelings on such things & I respect them, however Roger writes from the perspective of a Modern Soul fan looking in on the NS Scene, my comments were aimed directly at the Northern scene & have very little do with the Modern scene. I stick by my guns & would add that if you pop over to EMS you may think that the same comment 'Drama Queen' could be applied when he who cannot be named (2) along with others in a left field way, make comment on the previous thread on this subject....its obvious that regardless of what is said on SS it hit a nerve, cos said person obviously feels he should comment, albeit in a round about way. Its a pity that the legend couldnt respond in person on SS.

Please feel free to lock this thread now I have replied.

Many thanks

Russ

No surprise the most sensible post on this knocking Pete off is Sebastians, one of our European cousins.

It was good while it lasted.

Well I have read through most of this thread since I last posted and just wanted to offer my two pennyworth.

I have noticed the trend towards rare uptempo 60s soul as if its now the be all and end all of a successful night.

Dont get me wrong I love the stuff but it is NOT the last word in soul music.

In fact I prefer the word soulful in describing whether a record "cuts the mustard" as they say.

There is a time and a place in a dj set (and I do not profess to be such although I have spun a few once or twice) to

play such a record....after all its all about tempo and atmosphere at the end of the day.

At the Torch they used to put The Precisions -What I Want on halfway through a set... an atmospheric record in my opinion which did what is supposed to..add to the atmosphere of the proceedings......

The soulful record does not necessarly have to be rare and /or underplayed but a good dj will find the right place to put it EVEN IF IT IS

Now you cannot mix all genres together obviously but you can ADD to the atmosphere by slotting in a FEW unknowns/lesser tunes here and there

without too many people taking umbrage.

I am into 3-speed soul mid tempo uptempo and a ballad to finish....BUT IT HAS TO BE SOULFUL!

In fact all this labelling of records is a little misleading imho....just make it soulful and danceable and/or soulful and atmospheric

So if you like it its Northern if you don't like it its Rare. Very factual and dare I say rather bollocks.

I have been meaning to ask for ages how you can tell something is Rare just by listening to it but thanks for clearing that up!

No surprise the most sensible post on this knocking Pete off is Sebastians, one of our European cousins.

This post reiterates my view, stop worrying about FatWiggy and his likes they are irrelevant and always will be to the progressive world, stop worrying about the 1000's dancing to whatever they like and know, its a scene that has as little in common with what I was into as Doo Wop or Rockabilly scenes.

Start worrying about the people who think it is cool to put on a room for their 40 mates, telling everyone they are into "Rare and Underplayed" but don't have a clue on how to articulate that. I now f***king hate that saying because of on here.

Just thinking your cool isn't getting it!

Start worrying about supporting half a dozen top DJ's that have top end kit, there aren't many more than that despite what the 4562 "rare and underplayed" DJ's keep telling themselves.

Edited June 22, 201212 yr by Steve G

I think our dj line up @ Soul in the South Allnighter on Sat June 9th was brilliant .....support us now please, the next one is on Sat 22nd Sept but it is yet to be confirmed because of low attendance for the one in June.

The line up was Des Parker, John Weston, Dave Abbott, Adam Topping, Dr Pickles, Chris Latham, Tim Smithers & Sallie Reynolds....musically it was one of the best Allniters I've been to in a long long time...& I go to Bidds, Lifeline, Burnley etc etc etc. All these venues should be packed to the rafters every time they are on in my opinion, they are the best Allniters musically by a country mile !!!

Regarding rare soul....I have listened to various podcasts etc etc but I find I just don't like rare soul but I do like northern.I can see why oldies gigs are full and rare soul gigs have low numbers ....

Rather confused by this post now Wiggy - since your signature under your post says "I will be playing uptempo rare and underplayed Northern Soul from original vinyl" at some gig you are doing in London.

Thought you were Russ W's agent in the south? Then you are playing uptempo rare and underplayed and now you don't like rare soul after all, but you do like northern. All a bit Spaghetti Head!! :

Edited June 22, 201212 yr by Steve G

There is no need to book 'Johnny Bootleg' to play the Tomangoes, Sandi Sheldon, Freddie Chavez, Salvadors, Eddie Parker, Gwen Owens, Al Williams, J.D. Bryant, Yum Yums, Mel Britt

Shit mon, you've just publically 'outed' at least 50 DJs sets for this and next weekend.....you terror!

Edited June 22, 201212 yr by Steve G

Shit mon, you've just 'outed' at least 50 "imaginative" DJs sets for this weekend.....you terror!

In my very honest opinion I think that this thread is boring. Please feel free to shout me down.

In the case of Bidds...I meant the original line ups !!!

Mr Wiggy..

I do try to understand posts but yours make my head spin... ..

All comments are taken on board but i do think that folk need to have been out and about around this world of soul before posting certain comments, it make little sense to comment on the state of anything if you only go to the end of the street for your fix..

There is a world out there and if you look you hard enough i am sure you will find something to your liking...

Shit mon, you've just 'outed' at least 50 "imaginative" DJs sets for this weekend.....you terror!

Oops, sorry - what was I thinking?!!

Better not mention Luther Ingram ...

Well Bill Cosby is not, never was rare but was played in the early days ,many tunes played were not rare

reggae ska R&B and uptempo soul stuff was all part of it ,the scene did not start on "rare records"

Bazza

Yes, very true, right up to the late 70s new releases that fitted the bill were played on the northern scene as well (Sad Girl, F Emeralds, Eddie Holman etc.). Later if you include Stafford with Richard / Dave T / Robin etc.

PS Bearsy: Give me F.Smogg over Bill Cosby anyday! :

Edited June 22, 201212 yr by Steve G

Does anyone on here actually say that they only play "rare soul" or only like "rare soul"?

"Rare soul" is not a genre.

By a lot of peoples posts in this thread it sounds as if they think that soul records that are rare/scarce -- i.e. "rare soul" -- has got a specific sound or style.

That's just ridiculous.

The northern soul scene has always concerned itself with rare records.

Most of the best-loved tunes on the northern soul scene are in the grand scheme of things rare/scarce 45s on their original release.

Sebastian a typical oldies type in the UK will describe as "rare" anything they're not familiar with whether or not the record is actually rare.

ie " stop playing this rare shit and play some oldies that we know"

What the said person wants to hear are records such as the Tomangoes, Salvadors and other such non-rare records

Sebastian a typical oldies type in the UK will describe as "rare" anything they're not familiar with whether or not the record is actually rare.

ie " stop playing this rare shit and play some oldies that we know"

What the said person wants to hear are records such as the Tomangoes, Salvadors and other such non-rare records

Yes, I realise that.

I just didn't think that people could be so ignorant and/or stupid.

It's as if they don't know what the word "rare" means in this context.

The concept of "rarity" isn't hard to understand, or is it?

I mean, we're not talking about a steak!

My previously fairly positive outlook on human kind is dwindling by the minute.

Edited June 22, 201212 yr by Sebastian

Sebastian a typical oldies type in the UK will describe as "rare" anything they're not familiar with whether or not the record is actually rare.

ie " stop playing this rare shit and play some oldies that we know"

What the said person wants to hear are records such as the Tomangoes, Salvadors and other such non-rare records

This is where it all gets confusing !!!!

Tomangoes on Grapevine - not rare !!!!

Tomangoes on Washpan - how rare ???

Answers on the back of a CDR please !!!!

Yes, I realise that.

I just didn't think that people could be so ignorant and/or stupid.

It's as if they don't know what the word "rare" means in this context.

The concept of "rarity" isn't hard to understand, or is it?

I mean, we're not talking about a steak!

My previously fairly positive outlook on human kind is dwindling by the minute.

If you don't think some people are ignorant or stupid then you should get out more

If you don't think some people are ignorant or stupid then you should get out more

If you don't think some people are ignorant or stupid then you should get out more

I guess I'm just a bit naive. I usually try to think the best of people. Big mistake, I know.

I haven't been able to get on line much lag day or so, what is this topic about? I don't think the topic kows where it is going nor those posting in it. Is this what I have to look forward to later on when catching up?

Yes, very true, right up to the late 70s new releases that fitted the bill were played on the northern scene as well (Sad Girl, F Emeralds, Eddie Holman etc.). Later if you include Stafford with Richard / Dave T / Robin etc.

PS Bearsy: Give me F.Smogg over Bill Cosby anyday! :

Back then most stuff was less than 5 years old,so I suppose it was modern not rare ,big money rare tunes came with the big ego's,some folk on here spout off about what they really havent got a clue about

Bazza

In my very honest opinion I think that this thread is boring. Please feel free to shout me down.

Why hasn't anyone been passionate enough to shout me down?

Reply to Bearsy... Got asked to dj and I will be playing uptempo northern including 4 unreleased tracks that nobody has heard that do cut the mustard...when I do my own gigs in Southend its all uptempo northern....no r and b no Latin no xover no boogaloo.Regarding rare soul....I have listened to various podcasts etc etc but I find I just don't like rare soul but I do like northern.I can see why oldies gigs are full and rare soul gigs have low numbers ....

Hi Wiggy, only mentioned it cos its says in your siganture that you will be playing Rare & Underplayed and you say you shy away from that music, i was just a tad confused but thanks for putting me right , would be very interested to hear these 4 tracks that cut the mustard, any sound files of them they sound very interesting indeedy oh and not all rare soul events are badly attended but in comparison to oldies events definatley a significant difference im lucky i like a bit of everything but not too much of one thing

Back then most stuff was less than 5 years old,so I suppose it was modern not rare ,big money rare tunes came with the big ego's,some folk on here spout off about what they really havent got a clue about

Bazza

True enough. But everything is relative Bazza. I remember seeing a Lou Ptride in a box in the late 70s for £35, and my mate selling Barbnara Mills UK demo for £70 to Keith Minshull @ Wigan. These sums were a fortune back then. No way could I afford a Lou Pride.

Edited June 22, 201212 yr by Steve G

No the signature is not for my club....the other deejays play rare and underplayed r and b etc and I will be playing a straight uptempo northern sixties set including these tracks and they have asked me to keep it underplayed so I will oblige...the tracks are from Canadian late sixties radio sessions.

Think it's just a waste of time now this thread, the people everyone are talking about

have buggered off to Brid

No the signature is not for my club....the other deejays play rare and underplayed r and b etc and I will be playing a straight uptempo northern sixties set including these tracks and they have asked me to keep it underplayed so I will oblige...the tracks are from Canadian late sixties radio sessions.

its underplayed for a reason nothing worse than djn at an empty venue so try to enjoy

only joking wiggy hope your set goes well and you have a great crowd in

Why hasn't anyone been passionate enough to shout me down?

cos you talk plain ass shoite Peter now aint you got a socket that needs looking at :lol:

I haven't been able to get on line much lag day or so, what is this topic about?

In a nutshell:

Jedi weaponry, funky handbags and salvadorian mustard-cutters of varied tempos; rare old uns dipped in underplayed Canadian OXO tinged with blue-stripe ketchup for the purposes of skirt-circling in the year zero - for 45 minutes, upstairs on the Cosby show ... + 'it'

Piece of p*ss!

No wonder people think we've blown em LOL

Edited June 22, 201212 yr by PhilT

cos you talk plain ass shoite Peter now aint you got a socket that needs looking at :lol:

LOL

How are you Pikey lad?

You've really got into this OVO thing haven't you.

And by the way - I only do fecking mains gas and water supplies! Well, actually electric is the only utility I haven't had an accident with - yet!

Oops, sorry - what was I thinking?!!

Better not mention Luther Ingram ...

Best not, if its all the same to you

Best not, if its all the same to you

Bugger me humour well done Phil lol

Bugger me humour well done Phil lol

I try

Is this topic serving any purpose now? I certainly can't see any?

Is this topic serving any purpose now? I certainly can't see any?

All spent now I think.

Each to their own....for me if it's an allniter...it's uptempo rareties....keeps me going all nite...!!!

But hey, as long as it's OVO...fine by me !!!

What's he meant to do, play them to a panel of judges first?

Someone's got to be brave enough to go with their instincts haven't they?

I guess so, in the old days it used to be the dance floor that would decide whether something 'cut it'. looks like I am a dinosaur after all

I guess so, in the old days it used to be the dance floor that would decide whether something 'cut it'. looks like I am a dinosaur after all

Naa ...cos yer got tight shoes Delxxxxx

Class Roger pure class lol I'm affraid when I was DJ'ing I would not have been as polite as you.

As im well aware mark lol, I think asked you for the fiestas think smart at a lowestoft allnighter back in the late 80s & no you werent paticularly polite

As im well aware mark lol, I think asked you for the fiestas think smart at a lowestoft allnighter back in the late 80s & no you werent paticularly polite

Oh well must have been an off night as I remember the couple of allnighters I did there being pretty piss poor events,on a more serious note I may have cut people short but can honestly say I was never directly rude to people lol must say you have a good memory I can't remember what I did last week let alone overy twenty five years ago lol

The thread has lost its way because the starting post was actually taken from the 'debate' about Colin Curtis playing CD's at the recent Swallow Gateshead event at which I actually attended.

Paul Conroy the promoter is just trying to get the crowd (Newcastle/Gateshead and surrounding area) to experience a few 'name dj's' and is doing a bloody good job IMO, however Colin Curtis caused a few rumblings with his CD set.

People expressed the old OVO against cd's, boots etc argument on the thread that followed the article and once again we have another thread about it.

Comments from people I talked with on the night were ranging from - who cares the floor is packed - to - fk me all that money I spend on OVO when I could have the worlds best collection on CD!

I went along to support a local scene and people I know anyway - I heard some brilliant OVO from the other lads that night.

This debate will go on and on and on though........

Personally, I can't get hung up about not having or being able to acquire certain 'top or rare' records but I appreciate those people that put their heart, soul and money into keeping the scene alive by collecting and playing OVO.

You have to decide - would you go to an event to just hear them on CD because it was a 'name' DJ playing them.

My collecting ethics are OVO and I spend far too much on it in pursuit of a better collection, so ultimately I only play OVO when I DJ.

My belief to sort out the wheat from the chaff, is OVO at all events unless advertised otherwise - those that know it is NOT going to be OVO at their events should state it clearly on the ad/posting and then people can make their mind up about attending or not.

That way the scene stands or falls, becomes stronger rather than diluted, but ultimately, it keeps going.

The downside of dj's not playing original vinyl is, anyone who has not served there time, will be able to get behind the decks and do a ridiculous uneducated spot.

Although if DJ's are happy not to play originals, they won't be driving up the prices!

The same can be said about downloads and cd's.. Any one can have any record at least if thay have the real vinyl they have an interest in the scene.

So if you like it its Northern if you don't like it its Rare. Very factual and dare I say rather bollocks.

I have been meaning to ask for ages how you can tell something is Rare just by listening to it but thanks for clearing that up!

No surprise the most sensible post on this knocking Pete off is Sebastians, one of our European cousins.

This post reiterates my view, stop worrying about FatWiggy and his likes they are irrelevant and always will be to the progressive world, stop worrying about the 1000's dancing to whatever they like and know, its a scene that has as little in common with what I was into as Doo Wop or Rockabilly scenes.

Start worrying about the people who think it is cool to put on a room for their 40 mates, telling everyone they are into "Rare and Underplayed" but don't have a clue on how to articulate that. I now f***king hate that saying because of on here.

Just thinking your cool isn't getting it!

Start worrying about supporting half a dozen top DJ's that have top end kit, there aren't many more than that despite what the 4562 "rare and underplayed" DJ's keep telling themselves.

A good record is a good record ole son. Remember the days where you had 60's 70's and 80's played in the same set that were all great tunes. But we were younger and slimmer.

You know my stance on vinyl but there has become a comedy northern scene that looks more like a 70's fancy dress night than anything else.

The thread has lost its way because the starting post was actually taken from the 'debate' about Colin Curtis playing CD's at the recent Swallow Gateshead event at which I actually attended.

Paul Conroy the promoter is just trying to get the crowd (Newcastle/Gateshead and surrounding area) to experience a few 'name dj's' and is doing a bloody good job IMO, however Colin Curtis caused a few rumblings with his CD set.

People expressed the old OVO against cd's, boots etc argument on the thread that followed the article and once again we have another thread about it.

Comments from people I talked with on the night were ranging from - who cares the floor is packed - to - fk me all that money I spend on OVO when I could have the worlds best collection on CD!

I went along to support a local scene and people I know anyway - I heard some brilliant OVO from the other lads that night.

This debate will go on and on and on though........

Personally, I can't get hung up about not having or being able to acquire certain 'top or rare' records but I appreciate those people that put their heart, soul and money into keeping the scene alive by collecting and playing OVO.

You have to decide - would you go to an event to just hear them on CD because it was a 'name' DJ playing them.

My collecting ethics are OVO and I spend far too much on it in pursuit of a better collection, so ultimately I only play OVO when I DJ.

My belief to sort out the wheat from the chaff, is OVO at all events unless advertised otherwise - those that know it is NOT going to be OVO at their events should state it clearly on the ad/posting and then people can make their mind up about attending or not.

That way the scene stands or falls, becomes stronger rather than diluted, but ultimately, it keeps going.

It's a local soul night, lets say for the sake of argument that it attracts 200 people, what proportion of those 200 actually want to know if it's an OVO event or not. I'd suspect the number to be quite small, so why would a promoter shoot him or herself in the foot by appeasing a minority? Just trying to get some perspective on what's basically been 3 topics about the same subject in the last couple of months

The original post was interesting and it should have stuck to the them of "Previous Legend Djs doing NS nights with CDs/ Reisuues /Boots etc" For me the person has lost credibility when they have sold their collection on which they built up their reputation to then jump back on the bandwagon with a different set of tools. I did a similar thread about Keb Darge 2 or 3 years ago and got slated for it! I was told I would end up with egg on my face but here we are having a debate about another ex legend of the Northern soul scene. So the question is why do they do it? It reminds me of the film of a bounty hunter taking his capture back to collect the bail bond money and a conversation on the train is a battle of Denials! Maybe Colin (Allegedly) is going through Denial!

You know what - that's right - all those on the floor couldn't give a monkeys as they were enjoying themselves (to CC's CD set) and anyway I go to local events to try and support those putting them on!

I'm just saying that as a record collector first and foremost then obviously I prefer OVO at events - always got CD's on in the house though as some rare stuff is only on CD!!.

Money for old rope! 'it's what's in the pocket that counts'

If everyone did the same thing what'd happen? (You can apply the same question to every bugger thinking they're a dj running empty nights on a regular basis of course and we're seeing the results, gradually)

If you ain't got em anymore then you've kind of cashed your chips in haven't you? Still turning up and living that particular dream seems a bit like wanting to eat cake you no longer have, over and over again. Once you're full give it a break or there'll be nowt left. From a punter's point of view, I can't understand why you'd keep stocking the fridge? They'll implode in the end and it won't be them clearing the shit up. Smaller plates all round.

We had the whole Colin Curtis playing CD's when it happened at the Blackpool event. Do we really need all this again and again? It is the same arguments from pretty much the same people and one that will never get resolved simply because some care about the format and some couldn't give a sh*t.

We had the whole Colin Curtis playing CD's when it happened at the Blackpool event. Do we really need all this again and again? It is the same arguments from pretty much the same people and one that will never get resolved simply because some care about the format and some couldn't give a sh*t.

So is that it then? We can't 'resolve' it so let's not even talk about it.

On a forum, let people talk about the issue ... especially when they care about it. They want to engage in the discussion; and who knows, some of the many people reading (not necessarily posting) may have given it some greater consideration and come to a more informed, or perhaps different, view.

There have also been some very amusing 'shafts of wit' (or something like that!).

New voices have joined this debate even today. And, what is more, they have made some fresh points.

It is enjoyable to read. And I, for one, welcome their opinions.

So is that it then? We can't 'resolve' it so let's not even talk about it.

On a forum, let people talk about the issue ... especially when they care about it. They want to engage in the discussion; and who knows, some of the many people reading (not necessarily posting) may have given it some greater consideration and come to a more informed, or perhaps different, view.

There have also been some very amusing 'shafts of wit' (or something like that!).

New voices have joined this debate even today. And, what is more, they have made some fresh points.

It is enjoyable to read. And I, for one, welcome their opinions.

I'm am not saying "not talk about it". This argument over Colin Curtis was done a few weeks ago, a whole lengthy topic.

This whole argument about OVO, reissues, cds, downloads has been discussed countless times, a quick search of the forum will verify that. The outcome is always the same and the argument is always the same. Nothing different what so ever is different in this topic to the don't know how many before it. There is never any outcome or resolution to the original only vs. boots/reissue debates, it is always split between those who care and those who don't.

Maybe those who just read have a different opinion, an opinion that could be of value to the "discussion"?

And from a moderators point of view the topic seems to have little direction with too much off topic from the same usual suspects. There seems to be little engagement in discussion for the last couple of pages or so.

I'm am not saying "not talk about it". This argument over Colin Curtis was done a few weeks ago, a whole lengthy topic.

This whole argument about OVO, reissues, cds, downloads has been discussed countless times, a quick search of the forum will verify that. The outcome is always the same and the argument is always the same. Nothing different what so ever is different in this topic to the don't know how many before it. There is never any outcome or resolution to the original only vs. boots/reissue debates, it is always split between those who care and those who don't.

Maybe those who just read have a different opinion, an opinion that could be of value to the "discussion"?

And from a moderators point of view the topic seems to have little direction with too much off topic from the same usual suspects. There seems to be little engagement in discussion for the last couple of pages or so.

Never been a fan of closing topics just for the sake of it or because it's gone a little off the boil. So CC was discussed already, well he did the same thing again, this time elsewhere, so surely it makes sense to discuss it again, especially for the people who know the venue and people involved etc. Too many topics get closed before they've run their course.

Oh well must have been an off night as I remember the couple of allnighters I did there being pretty piss poor events,on a more serious note I may have cut people short but can honestly say I was never directly rude to people lol must say you have a good memory I can't remember what I did last week let alone overy twenty five years ago lol

Yeah fair shout it wasnt a great night mark, mind you when your 18 you tend to remember what the man spinning the discs says especially if he cuts you dead lol

Never been a fan of closing topics just for the sake of it or because it's gone a little off the boil. So CC was discussed already, well he did the same thing again, this time elsewhere, so surely it makes sense to discuss it again, especially for the people who know the venue and people involved etc. Too many topics get closed before they've run their course.

This topic doesn't seem to have a course though Pete that is my argument. It isn't even going round in circles, it just seems to be off topic and what has happened in the past when asking for requests the last page or so. I'm not one for closing topics, I've closed very few but this one has to get back on whatever course it was on and less of the off topic.

Yes he has done the same thing again, elsewhere and the outcome is no different is it. No other fresh opinion has been entered for debate.