Jock (jocko on here) wrote a fanzine back in the distant past, he'll tell you the exact date, anyway along with pete Lawson's magazines I also converted Jock's View Of Soul (Scottish Edition) to PDF and ebook.

 

If you fancy a read on your iPad or similar device or even on you computer the PDF and ebook versions are available on my website

 

https://www.soulunderground.co.uk/magsandreviews/

I have that one somewhere.

 

How many issues were there?

 

Cheers

 

Richard

Great reading that, what year??

Jocko and I don't see eye to eye on politics, but what a wealth of soulful knowledge.

 

Aid.

Early 90's I think, could be bit before, sure Jock will fillin the details when he see's this.

What a very self-effacing title 

Good read. Some themes don't seem to change - played out oldies/promoters friends/relatives djing.

Good read. Some themes don't seem to change - played out oldies/promoters friends/relatives djing.

So true

Very interesting read that, thanks. A real insight into what was going on when I was just a kid but lots I can relate to now. The next Manifesto will I think be a little less interesting, but I do still love that too all the same.

Early 90's I think, could be bit before, sure Jock will fillin the details when he see's this.

 

Mid 80's Chalky mate, 85/86 at latest I would say, maybe even 84. It was released just after Stafford 2 1/2 anniversary that was reviewed if that helps. I remember that because I had to redo all the page settings again to fit that in, which in this case was sticking them with sellotape on blank paper.    

 

It took me about 6 months to complete, even though had lots of input. I had the letter from Pete for many months, even before Steve G had his first I think. If I hadn't been so slow to get it together I could have run to about 6 issues with just the responses. Instead Steve G had to act as UN peacemaker for half of his Backbeat editing career, and he made the £2.50 profit (over 12 years) rather than me based on response to Pete and Tommo the Bommo's letters

 

I had enough for about 3 other issues at that time, more interesting discogs etc but instead gave them to Pete as never got around to editing them, and there was some more mad stuff that ended up being in Pete's mags. I had such a great time at the Stafford I reviewed, having not been for 6 months, I came home, arranged a "temporary" break from my long term girlfriend (with a not you, its 2000 records I have just heard sort of excuse) and went out most weekends for the next 6 months! The visit to Dave M happened about 3 weeks later and my fortnightly journey to Stafford via Farnworth and/or Preston began.  Doing a fanzine got lost in the way somewhere. Although I loved it, maybe my finest achievement to date. Maybe time for issue 2. 

 

Good read. Some themes don't seem to change - played out oldies/promoters friends/relatives djing.

 

Its funny, I have been meaning to put Pete's article up and debate that, the arguments are exactly the same, 30 years on. Just there was more people on the side of the good guys then (which is obviously mines!   ) and more passion, it was the sort of debate that had to happen in record bars and service stations rather than internet, and although there were a few fallouts, you certainly didn't get the spectacular flouncing off and taking the huff you get on line when you disagree with people. Although the magazine did result in me having an 8 hour discussion in the toilets of a Scottish allnighter defending my position, starting off with avoiding a bit of a doing and at the end of the 8 hours I like to think Mr Spence and I walked out as friends for life, 

 

I like to think of it as my tribute to George Orwell, writing the future state as it would be 30 years later.   

 

What a very self-effacing title 

 

All my writing and every tape I have ever done, and CD has had that in title in some way. I have been sort of lucky that I realised I am always right from an early age......

 

A rather clever title when you think about it, and particularly around the circumstances of its time. 

I have that one somewhere.

 

How many issues were there?

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

Just the one, I do have lots of PO's and uncashed cheques that people sent for further issues even though I never advertised it. I never cashed them though, honest gov.

 

Wonder if they would work now......

PS thanks for doing that Chalky, it really is appreciated.

 

 I now no longer have to worry about my ramblings on here being the only thing I get published   

Jock, I'd love to have your permission to archive the Loma article you begin the issue with, and eventually use it on my website about the label (with full acknowledgements, of course)...

Absolute brilliant reading & never ceases to amaze me that all the things we hold dear & debate to this day, have been hot topics on the scene forever....I love this kinda thing, its like a little piece of time...

 

Jock, thanks for having the inspiration to write in the first place & Chalky thanks for posting.

 

Best Russ

cover.jpg

Jock (jocko on here) wrote a fanzine back in the distant past, he'll tell you the exact date, anyway along with pete Lawson's magazines I also converted Jock's View Of Soul (Scottish Edition) to PDF and ebook.

If you fancy a read on your iPad or similar device or even on you computer the PDF and ebook versions are available on my website

https://www.soulunderground.co.uk/magsandreviews/

A fantastic read...Nice one Jocko ( another one of those hidden talents etc).... thanks for posting for the world to read Chalky - This fanzine along with the 3 that Pete Lawson compiled could and should be a definite you must read these as part of ya " I quite fancy getting into that Northerny souly sceney A to Z - YTS i love soul music guide" that' is just to test if you really have the energy and enthusiasm to go the full hog ???? Then follow it up by a wee Q & A session at 7 am on a Sunday morning this session must not last longer than 3 days ?? Just to see if you have really been paying attention too the smaller print...

mmmm this was pre ya fancy laptop/ iPods days .these fanzines were compiled with passion and made for essential reading and were one of the better ways to get to know what was really happening out there ?

All part of our history and culture...

Keep um coming guys and gals

Ktf and right on right on trk

Edited April 22, 201312 yr by tfk

 

All my writing and every tape I have ever done, and CD has had that in title in some way. I have been sort of lucky that I realised I am always right from an early age......

 

A rather clever title when you think about it, and particularly around the circumstances of its time. 

 

Could have called it "Jocks Trap"

Jock

Think I'll save it for Cleethorpes so I can annoy the neighbouring caravans with it

Cheers

Martyn

I have that zine up in the loft along with all my old shades of soul and other mags/zines , these publications were essential reading back in the pre internet day , especially if you lived on the south coast and wanted to keep in touch with the scene in the north .

Really great read, thanks for making it available. As people have said things don't change, upfront 60s newies fresh in the 80s are still being played to death now 30 years later.

Wanna hear that fool on the street rap now though !

I had a feeling it was earlier than I said but as wasn't sure at all. The two an half anniversary would be back end of 1984.

If you want to get a second issue done Jock give us a shout and ill help in any way I can

I still have the Shades Of Soul in the garage and the Detroit ones of Graham Anthony, maybe one day I will do those when I am a man of leisure (never knowing my luck ).

Just read it.......chronicles the time brilliantly but is just as relevant today. 

 

Two epic comments for me which illustrate the perpetual split between the oldies and the chin-strokers are; 

 

"Mr M's.....the cess pit of northern soul"

 

and

 

"No one ever told me how difficult it is to write while dancing".

(I know this second quote is said in jest but it is the idea of hearing a sound and mentally critiquing it which makes me refer to chin stroking)

 

The passion and knowledge of the author justify the highest accolade for this regardless of which "camp" you belong to....but I prefer Pete Smith's suggested title, tongue firmly in cheek.

 

Here's to the next installment 

Great stuff, second issue to be typed on the same typewriter please Jocko - Retro!

 

Good to see the original version of some of the arguments, rather than all the re 'issues' we have today

 

Nice one.

 

All the best,

 

Len  

Some how you can really feel the passion in the writing, it feels quite personal....something that doesnt always come across as well on SS sometimes for some reason.....I think that they were more naive times & thats reflected in the writing in the fanzines of the time....I liked it better then, we all know or have access to, almost everything now via the interweb....back then you had to work hard for information & to put a collection together.....(sighs nostalgically.....). 

 

Russ

Some how you can really feel the passion in the writing, it feels quite personal....something that doesnt always come across as well on SS sometimes for some reason.....I think that they were more naive times & thats reflected in the writing in the fanzines of the time....I liked it better then, we all know or have access to, almost everything now via the interweb....back then you had to work hard for information & to put a collection together.....(sighs nostalgically.....). 

 

Russ

 

Totally agree.

 

The lists in the discography etc, relied entirely on "prose" for example, whereas today, with a couple of clicks you can insert documents, sound, stills or even video into your narrative.

 

Had to be a labour of love in those days.

So someone gives forthright opinions in a fanzine, calling people this and that, slagging off venues, speaking down to oldies lovers and generally telling it like it is and not giving a toss who it upsets, and you call it genius.

I do all the same things on here and you call me a c*nt.

It's a cruel world sometimes 

Jock strap ! Ha ha just got it !

Jock strap ! Ha ha just got it !

 

 

One of those that you either get immediately or it's a lost joke I think

So Jock OAO.

 

Original Arguments Only.

 

Some things never change with you mate!!!

I don’t think Jocko was speaking down to Oldies Lovers - On the contrary, he was saying all that kind of talk was damaging to the Scene, and speaking down to people who were doing just that at that time.

 

I particularly liked the point made in reference to someone he was accusing, about them not doing anything themselves for the Scene - just criticising…..Yes, nothing’s changed!  

 

The labour of love is the fact that it took a lot of effort to do something like this in ‘those days’…..I know, as I was the 'Editor' of a fanzine called ‘Northern News’ a few years later, and that was a lot of effort then, but I at least I had a word processer to do it on (Typed by my ‘ex’ mother in law) Folding and stapling them all together was a real pain - most definitely a ‘Labour of Love’ though.

 

Looks like this thread may turn a bit fiery - Great stuff!  

 

N.B - You may not have heard of ‘Northern News’..... 

 

All the best,

 

Len  

 

P.s - Pete, I don’t think you’re a c*nt, your input on threads is welcome whether they are agreeable or not, they keep up debate, which is what it’s all about  

Edited April 23, 201312 yr by LEN

So someone gives forthright opinions in a fanzine, calling people this and that, slagging off venues, speaking down to oldies lovers and generally telling it like it is and not giving a toss who it upsets, and you call it genius.

I do all the same things on here and you call me a c*nt.

It's a cruel world sometimes 

 

You had to be wrong to be called a c**t in those days. I cant remember that ever applying. 

 

Its another you had to be around to understand it cliche I am afraid. 

And just to be clear, the article that has the quotes above was written by Pete Lawson not me. Although it was 120% supported by me and I helped shape it. I had similar ones ready for version 2. The idea behind that Fanzine was to give a voice to people of that opinion,  and to try and stop the scene drifting off into boring territory. So maybe its more Aldous Huxley than George Orwell! 

 

It did have the mantra if you don't like it F**k off printed somewhere. Obviously got lost in the edit. One of Pete's finer sayings.

 

It was shaped from lots of morning after discussions and record bar rants on how the progressive scene didn't get the respect it deserved!

 

And although It does have similarities to the current day arguments it was very different times scene wise in other ways on reflection. The progressive thing was much more together. 

 

It was shaped over a year of rants, full of youthful exuberance and spleen venting when it seemed the scene was the only thing that mattered. Which  to be honest it did for many people I was around. Now it probably seems bit daft, and something kids would do, hence why it probably is a you had to be there thing,. 

 

I loved it, and still do. 

 

If you want the posh slightly sanitised version  you need to get Chalky to take a month of and load up Blackbeat, assuming Mr G would provide permission...

So Jock OAO.

 

Original Arguments Only.

 

Some things never change with you mate!!!

 

Yes and I can recite every word of the ones that never made it to print, you better bring ear plugs to Bamberg....

Jock strap ! Ha ha just got it !

 

Don't encourage him, I was going to pretend I had never heard it before!

I liked your fanzine too Pete, dont think Jock is a genius, just really enjoyed being whisked away to a far off time again....a time that many have forgotten or where never there in the first place, so a timely reminder of why some on here, myself included get very excited when others disrespect that era or ethos thru lack of understanding...read & inwardly digest lol 

 

Best Russ

And just to be clear, the article that has the quotes above was written by Pete Lawson not me. Although it was 120% supported by me and I helped shape it. I had similar ones ready for version 2. The idea behind that Fanzine was to give a voice to people of that opinion,  and to try and stop the scene drifting off into boring territory. So maybe its more Aldous Huxley than George Orwell! 

 

It did have the mantra if you don't like it F**k off printed somewhere. Obviously got lost in the edit. One of Pete's finer sayings.

 

It was shaped from lots of morning after discussions and record bar rants on how the progressive scene didn't get the respect it deserved!

 

And although It does have similarities to the current day arguments it was very different times scene wise in other ways on reflection. The progressive thing was much more together. 

 

It was shaped over a year of rants, full of youthful exuberance and spleen venting when it seemed the scene was the only thing that mattered. Which  to be honest it did for many people I was around. Now it probably seems bit daft, and something kids would do, hence why it probably is a you had to be there thing,. 

 

I loved it, and still do. 

 

If you want the posh slightly sanitised version  you need to get Chalky to take a month of and load up Blackbeat, assuming Mr G would provide permission...

 

 

Hey Jocko, Your obviously well read quoting Aldous Huxley & George Orwell, Try making sense out of the writings of Sir Jujian Huxley The man who started a fight at a Darwin lecture, Punching an archbishop !!!!!

 

Sorry It Was the name that set me off.

 

Garry Huxley

Thanks for posting it up Chalky. I've printed it off and I am saving this to read on the plane to Bamberg. I shall then discuss the merits or otherwise with Jock over a wheat bear or two. Cheers 

 

p.s. I notice it says on the cover Scottish Edition, is there an English version? 

I don't think there is anything wrong with voicing an opinion, on the scene, then or now, as long as you are involved and can back up your argument with reasoning and fact. We can all pass comment on the quality of a record, or lack of, that is subjective and something we can all involve ourselves in by simply having a listen. But too many have a pop at things, particularly an era, then or now, that they were not or are not involved with.

Whatever you think of fanzines, they are what was happening, a viewpoint of someone who was there and of someone who cared enough to put pen to paper, be that Pete Lawson, Jock, Derek Pearson, Dave Rimmer, Pete Smith, Steve G, Rod Dearlove or anyone else who gave up their free time to produce a fanzine for others to read. they document the scene at that particular time, more often than to it was our youth and probably our best time on the scene depending on which fanzine you remember best.

I will have a scour in the garage and see what I can do next flor you, might do a couple of he early Shades of Soul. Quite a few SOS though I put a spiral binder on within a plastic cover so might prove tricky to do those.

A great read

 

 

 

gary

I don't think there is anything wrong with voicing an opinion, on the scene, then or now, as long as you are involved and can back up your argument with reasoning and fact. We can all pass comment on the quality of a record, or lack of, that is subjective and something we can all involve ourselves in by simply having a listen. But too many have a pop at things, particularly an era, then or now, that they were not or are not involved with.

Whatever you think of fanzines, they are what was happening, a viewpoint of someone who was there and of someone who cared enough to put pen to paper, be that Pete Lawson, Jock, Derek Pearson, Dave Rimmer, Pete Smith, Steve G, Rod Dearlove or anyone else who gave up their free time to produce a fanzine for others to read. they document the scene at that particular time, more often than to it was our youth and probably our best time on the scene depending on which fanzine you remember best.

I will have a scour in the garage and see what I can do next flor you, might do a couple of he early Shades of Soul. Quite a few SOS though I put a spiral binder on within a plastic cover so might prove tricky to do those.

 

Agreed Chalky

 

Fanzines were very special indeed - not least due to the effort involved - typewriters, photocopying and tippex-ing for earlier prototypes.

 

Plus they were a true education for many including me - went hand-in-hand with the tape-swapping scene as a way of finding out about 'collectors' records that were not played out and about generally.

 

Even doing a discography for a label or artist in those days was a major enterprise. Some of the early mistakes still persist in current day internet discogs where people just do an easy search and cut and paste, without the groundwork.

 

Got any copies of Midnite Express - as well as Shades of Soul and Detroit City Limits I really liked that one?

 

Cheers

 

Richard

Edited April 23, 201312 yr by Premium Stuff

I have all the Detroit City Limits plus the Detroit Discography. Don't have any Midnight Express so if anyone got any the wish to sell?

So someone gives forthright opinions in a fanzine, calling people this and that, slagging off venues, speaking down to oldies lovers and generally telling it like it is and not giving a toss who it upsets, and you call it genius.

I do all the same things on here and you call me a c*nt.

It's a cruel world sometimes 

Ran out of likes.

 

Mid 80's Chalky mate, 85/86 at latest I would say, maybe even 84. It was released just after Stafford 2 1/2 anniversary that was reviewed if that helps. I remember that because I had to redo all the page settings again to fit that in, which in this case was sticking them with sellotape on blank paper.    

 

It took me about 6 months to complete, even though had lots of input. I had the letter from Pete for many months, even before Steve G had his first I think. If I hadn't been so slow to get it together I could have run to about 6 issues with just the responses. Instead Steve G had to act as UN peacemaker for half of his Backbeat editing career, and he made the £2.50 profit (over 12 years) rather than me based on response to Pete and Tommo the Bommo's letters

 

I had enough for about 3 other issues at that time, more interesting discogs etc but instead gave them to Pete as never got around to editing them, and there was some more mad stuff that ended up being in Pete's mags. I had such a great time at the Stafford I reviewed, having not been for 6 months, I came home, arranged a "temporary" break from my long term girlfriend (with a not you, its 2000 records I have just heard sort of excuse) and went out most weekends for the next 6 months! The visit to Dave M happened about 3 weeks later and my fortnightly journey to Stafford via Farnworth and/or Preston began.  Doing a fanzine got lost in the way somewhere. Although I loved it, maybe my finest achievement to date. Maybe time for issue 2. 

 

 

Its funny, I have been meaning to put Pete's article up and debate that, the arguments are exactly the same, 30 years on. Just there was more people on the side of the good guys then (which is obviously mines!   ) and more passion, it was the sort of debate that had to happen in record bars and service stations rather than internet, and although there were a few fallouts, you certainly didn't get the spectacular flouncing off and taking the huff you get on line when you disagree with people. Although the magazine did result in me having an 8 hour discussion in the toilets of a Scottish allnighter defending my position, starting off with avoiding a bit of a doing and at the end of the 8 hours I like to think Mr Spence and I walked out as friends for life, 

 

I like to think of it as my tribute to George Orwell, writing the future state as it would be 30 years later.   

 

 

All my writing and every tape I have ever done, and CD has had that in title in some way. I have been sort of lucky that I realised I am always right from an early age......

 

A rather clever title when you think about it, and particularly around the circumstances of its time. 

 

Loved it Jock, vaguely remember it.

 

Best line:

 

"Next time I hope to have my own typewriter" :lol:

 

Thommo the Bommo....Leicester? ("Pondies for the Pondie Boys maybe? )

 

Russ said it best - it whisked me right back to the time and I was lost for a spell.

 

Great stuff and thanks for posting Chalky, made me week.

Ran out of likes.

 

Given the propoganda that is propogated on the websites you are happy to promote that is actually hilarous. Good comedy writes itself, again.

 

Pete will be furiously carving out a two tablet reponse to that as we speak. Ridiculing you, It was the way of world back then. It was a good way!

Loved it Jock, vaguely remember it.

 

Best line:

 

"Next time I hope to have my own typewriter" :lol:

 

Thommo the Bommo....Leicester? ("Pondies for the Pondie Boys maybe? )

 

Russ said it best - it whisked me right back to the time and I was lost for a spell.

 

Great stuff and thanks for posting Chalky, made me week.

 

Yes, that was Tommo from Leicester, sadly  now gone, had my differences with him towards the end but another character that made the scene back then and knew his music as well as weekend recreation activities.  His first tape to me was legendary, way ahead of his time.

 

A book about the people of that era is really required..........

Yes, that was Tommo from Leicester, sadly  now gone, had my differences with him towards the end but another character that made the scene back then and knew his music as well as weekend recreation activities.  His first tape to me was legendary, way ahead of his time.

 

A book about the people of that era is really required..........

 

Thought it was - he could make a nighter difficult for me at times that lad, depending what mood he was in.

 

You're right - how many football hooligan books are there about specific 'supporters' - ours were pretty much the same but liked records.

Given the propoganda that is propogated on the websites you are happy to promote that is actually hilarous. Good comedy writes itself, again.

 

Pete will be furiously carving out a two tablet reponse to that as we speak. Ridiculing you, It was the way of world back then. It was a good way!

 

Makes you come across as a bit insecure Jock, pulling up people just because they 'like' something.  Especially a tongue in cheek post from me.

Though I always said that the 'like' feature was devisive.  

I enjoyed reading the mag, I hadn't seen it before, especially enjoyed trying to guess what the cover ups were.

Fanzines were the internet 20 years before someone invented  it !!

 

Would love to read as many as possible again, lost all my beloved Blackbeats loaned to a friend years (decades) ago  and never got them back !!

 

Thanks again Chalky for the effort youve put in !

Fanzines were the internet 20 years before someone invented  it !!

 

Would love to read as many as possible again, lost all my beloved Blackbeats loaned to a friend years (decades) ago  and never got them back !!

 

 

 

I lost over 100 fanzines lending them out to someone...

I lost over 100 fanzines lending them out to someone...

 

i bet i've lost over 100 records lending them out over the years 

i bet i've lost over 100 records lending them out over the years 

 

is this a competition?

is this a competition?

 

Soul-source is a competition - Surely you know that Pete!  

 

All the best,

 

Len  

Makes you come across as a bit insecure Jock, pulling up people just because they 'like' something.  Especially a tongue in cheek post from me.

Though I always said that the 'like' feature was devisive.  

I enjoyed reading the mag, I hadn't seen it before, especially enjoyed trying to guess what the cover ups were.

 

You need to go back to your nightclass on pychoanlysis I am afraid, I didn't have a problem with your comment as shown by my response I would have thought.

Its all about context and I thought Manus' hypocrisy deserved comment.

 

And remember they are Pete Lawsons words not mines, although nothing I didn't also say at that time. Again its all about context!

 

Anyway fancy doing a joint project on history of fanzines (soul ones, I know even less about others) it would be fun, a story well worth telling and would be interested to see how many times we fell out and what over......