I've related in "the Film" thread how I felt slightly disappointed by "Northern Soul". Whilst it was a strong pice of film making,  in its own way it was as weak as "Soulboy". Both films got certain things right but ,for me anyway, in the final analysis  both films  fell well short of being definitive works about northern soul. And this last film was set up to be just that - "the definitive story of northern soul". 

 

I think there is definitely room for a a film about the phenomenon that was the Casino. Love it or hate it if you were into Northern Soul in the 70's / 80's then the Casino was the only place to be. I don't think its an exaggeration to say that from 1973 to 1981 it was the spiritual home of northern soul. 95% of people on here who were around at that time say that the Casino times were one of the happiest time of their lives - regardless of their respective ages and where exactly they were at in their northern soul journey at that point. Personally I only caught the tail end - 79-81 - and on some visits the place was virtually empty but nevertheless it was an unbelievable experience and one I've never forgotten. Nothing has compared since. That  feeling - the feeling of walking through those doors has not yet been captured in any film or documentary to date. Maybe it's an impossible feat. 

 

But there is so much material - my own personal experience which must be echoed by thousands of others - age 14 in 79, hearing the music for the first time at youth clubs, seeing the "annointed" dancing. Buying the records and learning the moves. Learning the drops and floor-work. Buying more records. Taking your own box of records to the youth club. When the DJ did the 5 minute Northern spot you were up there with the 5 or 6 others doing your routine for the first time. The circle formed around you. That's when you knew you were part of something special. Then from there going to your first full Northern venue - for us it was Notts Palais all dayers. From that point your world was only centered on one thing - Wigan Casino. You had to get there. My parents were pretty strict and were not going to let their 14 year old travel to the other side of the country to a club, up all night dancing. In the end I lied that I was staying overnight at a mates. Bread and jam in the bag with the clothes and I was away. I had twenty quid saved up from a paper round and odd jobs. I think it cost ten pounds to get there from Mansfield - service bus and train. That left £10 to buy records. And the whole adventure of actually getting there. It took hours. The horror of arriving at Wigan and being chased by the Punks and Grebo's all the way from the train station to Station Road. You ran for your life - literally. But that feeling when you rounded the bend and saw a few hundred Soulies outside - your heart lifted and the Rockers soon backed off at that point. One hour or so later you were walking through those doors and  you were in. Dancing at Wigan. The pinnacle reached at last. 

 

Then the drugs. None for me on the first couple of visits but subsequently blueys, chalkies - and the whole feeling was elevated 100 times. But then the come down and feeling like shit on the long journey home. But by Tuesday you were planning how to procure gear again for the next visit. And so it went on. Many cars stolen ( not by me ) to get there, chemists raided etc,. That feeling of your world consumed by the whole thing - the music, dancing, gear and the Casino. It was your life back then. For many still is.

 

Thats the story from the fans side which for a film could be juxtaposed with the story of the guys who ran the place as a business - Harry, Mike and Russ. How it started as a leap into the unknown and then became this monster which ran away with them. The story of how a run down dance hall on its last legs suddenly became this huge money making phenomenon. And how they milked the whole thing as a cash cow. The character of Simon Soussan and his story could be in there. The rampant commercialisation. The passion and oneupmanship of the DJs and collectors. Record buying trips  to the USA. Then the whole sad fiasco at the end with the 'last' niter farce. All done cynically to make money. But all true and all very rich drama. They say truth is stranger than fiction and the story of Wigan Casino is proof if any were needed. 

 

Right sod you lot  I'm booking the first flight to Hollywood! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In 1975 I did a seven mornings and seven nights paper round for £3 a week

Luxury! we used to d-r-e-a-m of a paper round. We lived in a shoe box in't middle et road. 

Beer towel the height of divdom even back then for me. Loathsome appendage. 

   

Beer towels........!

What about those naff plastic fists, one black glove and the Frank Spencer 'berets'.................."ooooh Betty!"

 

Where were the Soul Police when you really needed them.....?

Beer towel the height of divdom even back then for me. Loathsome appendage. 

 

I never got the beer towel thing ever. What is it meant to signify and what does it have to do with Northern Soul.......?

 

Ian D

I never got the beer towel thing ever. What is it meant to signify and what does it have to do with Northern Soul.......?

 

Ian D

 

Obviously you never hit the floor for hours after a hand full of Red & Browns.

 

Personally I never had a beer towel just an ordinary towel in my bag if and when required.

Is that the guy with the glasses Jordi?  He's the only one I don't know in that pic.

Left to right

the late Martin Randle (dancing), Barbara Thomas, Steve Smith, Shaun, John Jones, Andy Wall

Not my photo, I'd have been tucked up in bed having stopped going way before then.

Interesting though that the 'uniform' isn't as people seem to think it was.

 

Yes, Baz with the glasses, I've forgotten his surname. Him, Paul Cullen, Stoney and another lad Rob who has since died were the Walsall lads that I first met who were into Northern when I moved down to the Midlands. Haven't seen Paul for many years but I've seen Stoney quite a lot over the years. All Casino goers.

Obviously you never hit the floor for hours after a hand full of Red & Browns.

 

Personally I never had a beer towel just an ordinary towel in my bag if and when required.

 

Tennis sweat bands on the wrists were ok too.

Wigan Casino Annual "Spot The Clown Trousers" competition, no one won that year

 

Martin Randal, Barbara, Ozz, Sean, Baz, John.jpg

Could I ask what year this is from?? 78-79??

I'd wager it's 80-81...

Beer towels........!

What about those naff plastic fists, one black glove and the Frank Spencer 'berets'.................."ooooh Betty!"

 

Where were the Soul Police when you really needed them.....?

I admit to a FS berét. The bottom feeding fraternity at Peterborough's White Lion prior to the Wirrina allniters took particular exception to it, as I remember. 

I urge everyone who thinks they can do it, to go and try to do something as epic and then you will really, really see, what soul means.

 

 

Talk is cheap as we all know,  but making an embodied experience and memory into a a tangible expression to share with others is an incredible achievement and takes a big heart and soul.

This sums it up. Lots of us talk a good game, but actually doing it, and doing it well is rarer than a Russ Winstanley original thought. And the Soul Boy shimmy whatever definitely didn't! And the lack of heart and soul in that was so evident.

Reading behind the lines here, people are saying they want to tell their story, well on they go, I have talked about writing a book my whole life, the first sentence is the best opening sentence ever written, in my opinion. Just struggling to get beyond that. Never mind, another 20 or so years to write the second and that should get me really going.......

And sure you would agree Paul, its just completely made up to say Elaine said this was the definitive story of Northern Soul, I don't know why people just make things up.

I actually thought the title was as much about the characters as the scene, and was therefore quite clever.

Edited October 29, 201410 yr by jocko

....some great DJ's came from there...like Peter Young on Jazz FM! He used to be a red coat back in the 60's.

Only at Butlins......

You mean the Jeff Young thats been, along with Clive Richardson, slagging of the Northern Scene and anyone on the scene all week on FB, What is it with these bitter never were very good hacks that seem to always want to have a dig, Its not just these two, wouldn't have lasted a minute on the Northern scene writing their pish for specialist magazines and droning on like the old farts they were, Until Mr Cosgrove the standard of soul journalism was, apart from the obvious exceptions, abysmal. Read Clive Richardson's book for one of the blandest ever, and funnily very little of interest about music. Cant even call them has-beens as generally they never were! So its quite hilarious, and very ironic, they want to make personal attacks on Elaine.

Your enthusiasm is great Carl, and I love your musical passion, and unlike most of us moaners on here, you have done something, but if you dont understand the irony of your statement Only at Butlins re the Northern scene, then sorry mate, you need to get yourself along to a Lifeline or something.

This sums it up. Lots of us talk a good game, but actually doing it, and doing it well is rarer than a Russ Winstanley original thought. And the Soul Boy shimmy whatever definitely didn't! And the lack of heart and soul in that was so evident.

Reading behind the lines here, people are saying they want to tell their story, well on they go, I have talked about writing a book my whole life, the first sentence is the best opening sentence ever written, in my opinion. Just struggling to get beyond that. Never mind, another 20 or so years to write the second and that should get me really going.......

And sure you would agree Paul, its just completely made up to say Elaine said this was the definitive story of Northern Soul, I don't know why people just make things up.

I actually thought the title was as much about the characters as the scene, and was therefore quite clever.

 

Surely, your humble opinion? Call me Jocko?

Edited October 29, 201410 yr by Drewtg

Surely, your humble opinion? Call me Jocko?

Humble, how very dare you. Call me many things but never humble 

 

And expect a lawyers letter tomorrow for your attempts to steal my name.

If you thought the drugs in the movie were a bit over the top, you needed to visit

Burnley from 74 to 77. It was unreal.

.

 

time to take this exchange to pms

ask both do so

 

thanks

mike

time to take this exchange to pms

ask both do so

 

thanks

mike

 

 

offtopic post removed

 

use the feedback/support forum if you have any q's on moderation

I never got the beer towel thing ever. What is it meant to signify and what does it have to do with Northern Soul.......?

 

Ian D

 

Passing fad to wipe the sweat from you when dancing. I remember that I nicked one from the Nelson Arms in Tonbridge Very cool ha ha!

You mean the Jeff Young thats been, along with Clive Richardson, slagging of the Northern Scene and anyone on the scene all week on FB, What is it with these bitter never were very good hacks that seem to always want to have a dig, 

Pete Young has also been having digs too James…..you are right though some people have never been able to expunge their hatred of the northern scene. It'll go with them to their graves.

Wigan, Wigan, Wigan!

 

Most of us were there, most others heard about it, if you want a movie about Drugs, plenty to choose from, take your pick. We know the scene and first off it's about the music, the drugs assisted but Wigan has gone, the music and the venues are still here and it is still about the music!! KTF

More about the music? It's still about identifying oneself with a tribe for many, hence the retro clothing and obsession with oldies at events that draw that kind of people. If you read the comments of people like Shelley in the book, for the first five years of the scene, the music played second fiddle to getting smashed and being part of a cool, underground and often shady clique ("you didn't waltz around The Torch"). Put simply, no drugs, no scene...

various posts removed as per post in feedback forum thread

I remember there were supposed pie in the sky plans to make a "Quadrophenia style" movie about the Casino being thrown around in 1981. I think Echoes mentioned it.  I used to imagine that deep American voice in the trailers: "One man had a dream ..........

This sums it up. Lots of us talk a good game, but actually doing it, and doing it well is rarer than a Russ Winstanley original thought. And the Soul Boy shimmy whatever definitely didn't! And the lack of heart and soul in that was so evident.

Reading behind the lines here, people are saying they want to tell their story, well on they go, I have talked about writing a book my whole life, the first sentence is the best opening sentence ever written, in my opinion. Just struggling to get beyond that. Never mind, another 20 or so years to write the second and that should get me really going.......

And sure you would agree Paul, its just completely made up to say Elaine said this was the definitive story of Northern Soul, I don't know why people just make things up.

I actually thought the title was as much about the characters as the scene, and was therefore quite clever.

 

Yes, true,  Elaine has NEVER said its the definitive story of Northern Soul. Thats the work of critics, publicists and Chinese Whispers. Its definitely about the characters (Northern Souls) as well as the scene, as you can't have  a good film or play without them. Its also a socio-historic snapshot of a time I certainly remember, seen through the character eyes/perspectives.

The Film was a damm good effort it did manage to catch the time1974 very well and you could relate too most of the characters a little bit of fiction which explained many facts.

                    kind Regards Mick L

If you thought the drugs in the movie were a bit over the top, you needed to visit

Burnley from 74 to 77. It was unreal.

the people who thought it over the top were generally from the late 70's onwards.....l remember chatting with a well known fella on the scene  at TORQUAY in 74 who,d robbed 9 chemist shops in 2 or three days..........in fact his MINI was overflowing with goodies.....wey hey

Luxury! we used to d-r-e-a-m of a paper round. We lived in a shoe box in't middle et road. 

nothing changes

Well if their serious about "Wigan Casino" the movie they best get their skates on while some of the leading protagonists of the time are still alive and kicking, just think how much money in equity card fees they can save by getting them to play their own fathers!

Dave

me

More about the music? It's still about identifying oneself with a tribe for many, hence the retro clothing and obsession with oldies at events that draw that kind of people. If you read the comments of people like Shelley in the book, for the first five years of the scene, the music played second fiddle to getting smashed and being part of a cool, underground and often shady clique ("you didn't waltz around The Torch"). Put simply, no drugs, no scene...

 

Yup, of all of the Grantham guys who frequented Harborough, The Cats, Torch etc etc on a regular basis some were well into both the music and the pills. Can't think of one that would be "it's all about the music" but can think of a few who regularly went who couldn't name 10 Northern records

did anybody notice that when the salvadors was discovered, it was a green original, but when the boys played it at the polish club, blue 2nd issue!!

It's a great film imo... The party scenes, and en route to Wigan i loved, dancing on the hard shoulder!! We've all done it...

Malcolm

Wigan Casino Annual "Spot The Clown Trousers" competition, no one won that year

Martin Randal, Barbara, Ozz, Sean, Baz, John.jpg

Crackin picture Pete, was gonna say deffo 80+ or even the last year, a pair of Lois jeans & a footie wedge on show.

Well I think the film was a good effort & not actually just all about Wigan, but more about the generic Northern scene that just includes Wigan because that was the epicentre & still is the spiritual epicentre, which is why there is so much interest from outside.

Love it or loathe it, it's Wigans legacy that generates so much interest from elsewhere.

Halcyon days for the scene, that were never to be repeated on such a grand scale, which is probably a good thing because the post Wigan fragmentation spawned some great venues & diversity all of its own & those probably kept the scene alive.

I enjoyed it , good fun , good music , brought back good memories ,  what's not to like ? not going to delve into its depths as a film, wrong or rights . As the films on this genre are less than a hand full ! I will take it . My family enjoyed it too , mainly laughing at me but don't they always .

I thought it tried and mainly succeeded in capturing the essence of NS. It caught the idea of a 'tribe' interested in being different. It caught the frustration of being young and of course, young in the North Of England just as the guts of our Industry were fading away. Remember the short working weeks of the early '70's with the oil fiasco and the Nat West Bank one step away from being bust. The terraced houses with grotty outside loos and the ice forming on the inside of the glass in winter? The lack of optimism. In a short timeframe you're obviously going to be limited in what you can include so I would applaud it got it more right than wrong. It might have overstressed certain things and understressed others in favour of making a 'story' ,but that's what entertainment does to make sure it can engage listeners.

Anyway, enough now. Just in case it escaped you, the demographics are working against anymore of this. As a generation the older amongst us are now already in the age bracket bulge where we are dying off and with us go the memories and interest in what happened back then. Not many in later generations are going to be interested that's for sure if only because they have a small metal gadget that appears permanently affixed to the end of their nose.

Edited January 23, 20196 yr by Steve C

I took my car to the filming for 2 days, it was great fun. I went back the day after to the locations in Bury and the council were removing the graffitti , heres a couple of pics..