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Winnie :-)

Total Media Blackout?

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How in 2015 can anybody expect the northern soul scene avoid the media?

A film gets made, it's not accurate enough, the music is wrong, the dancing is poor, we're portrayed as a 'vest and bags' movement, research not deep enough, bringing the northern scene effectively into disrepute. Just some of the things claimed about the recent film.  

Now an advert has been made, much the same things being said about it.

Are we saying we expect a total media blackout on the subject of Northern Soul, or is there a film, or an advert that could be made that we'd be happy with? To be honest I can't see it, never going to please everyone as they say. 

I'm half expecting no replies to this thread because ironically to have your say, you have to use the internet, which in effect is 'spreading the word' rather than keeping it underground, especially if the same sort of post were made on social media sites. I'll get the tumbleweed emoticon ready shall I :)

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I think we all need to get over it & face up to the fact that there are, were & always have been those that would sell thier soul to the devil for a quick buck, loved the film...but TBH all the other stuff with a few exceptions, is just corporate soul.  All the ads n other stuff is down to a few who the media approach for research purposes, they get paid, we get Shredded Wheat & cringy embarrassment....the bubble WILL burst, its just a matter of when & then it'll be left to us again to pick up the pieces & carry on as we always have done...only then will things return to soulful normality....

 

over n out Russ

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What is the average age on the scene? I would suggest about 55, 20 years onward and there will be no scene unless young uns join and take ownership. The recent publicity may stir the interest of young uns about an underground music scene. I have no issue with the film, advertisements or JM seeking publicity to hike the price of those expensive vinyl and that will attract news interest.  No escape from public interest and curiosity; and within our community there are always going to be those who court publicity just as others look to avoid it, we are just gonna learn to live with it.

The only thing I would like to avoid is inviting film crews into the venues when we are on a night out.

King Cnut couldn't stop the tide and neither will we. :hatsoff2:

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How in 2015 can anybody expect the northern soul scene avoid the media?

A film gets made, it's not accurate enough, the music is wrong, the dancing is poor, we're portrayed as a 'vest and bags' movement, research not deep enough, bringing the northern scene effectively into disrepute. Just some of the things claimed about the recent film.  

Now an advert has been made, much the same things being said about it.

Are we saying we expect a total media blackout on the subject of Northern Soul, or is there a film, or an advert that could be made that we'd be happy with? To be honest I can't see it, never going to please everyone as they say. 

I'm half expecting no replies to this thread because ironically to have your say, you have to use the internet, which in effect is 'spreading the word' rather than keeping it underground, especially if the same sort of post were made on social media sites. I'll get the tumbleweed emoticon ready shall I :)

 

I for one thought that the film was extremely accurate in it's portrayal of 'Burnsworth' and some Casino goers in 1974. The research was incredible.

What really disappoints me with the media when covering the scene is the complete lack of research. They start off with a pre-conceived notion of N.Soul (baggies, talc, vests and badges), helpfully provided by previous incompetents, and then search for things to re-inforce that stereotype. They are not in the least bit interested in portraying a balanced or accurate view. What they want to portray is a caricature, and what we end up with is a cartoon.

I have given up expecting any research at all from the Beeb or other stations, hardly a year goes by without some piece talking about N.Soul as though it was, and is, all about Wigan. A familiar talking head (Waterman talking about f*cking miners) and a snatch of Frank Wilson, some star-struck imbeciles still wearing the clothes worn by a few, sartorially challenged, poor kids forty years ago and that's it folks. Let's move on to the nude vicars charity calendar.

On the whole, our music is used to good effect in advertisements but what surprises me about the Shreddies thing is that, unlike TV, a lot of money is spent making advertisements. A thirty second ad in Coronation St. will cost at least £100,000 per showing. For that sort of money you would expect a lot of research, and so the conclusion I draw is that the ad agency know they are being inaccurate but; the ad guys must genuinely believe that a man dressed like a clown will encourage people to eat their product as opposed to an everyman figure. They are therefore guilty of misrepresenting our scene - on purpose. 

Is there a film or an ad that I would be happy with? I've already praised the film, I don't think TV is capable of doing a balanced view of N.Soul. Most ad's are just music so that's ok but this ad is a deliberate misrepresentation.

For what it's worth I think they blundered. I can't see many people identifying with this bloke (a nice chap by all accounts) and I think the point would have been better made with an everyman/woman figure. But hey, what do I know?

Now. Moving on to the nude vicars charity calendar................................ :)

Edited by pikeys dog
swearing - workplace filters

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The only thing I would like to avoid is inviting film crews into the venues when we are on a night out.

King Cnut couldn't stop the tide and neither will we. :hatsoff2:

 

Good point Mellorful..X After doing the Toogetherness film 'casually' and with a trainee....I purposefully didn't use lights or put the camera in faces on the dance floor and stuff. Wanted folk to be 'normal'. The trade off is poor light quality for the dancing filmed from afar and stuff...but it's knowing the craic init. However....when Kev invited me back to do the Wigan 30th...I took 2 cameramen 1 being riiiiiight keen and 'independent'. Switched his light on mid dance floor to do a twirl and nearly got his head kicked in....hehe!!!x He knew best....sigh!!!x

 

@@

~

LUV

SOOTY

X

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at the end of the day its got us mentioning 'shredded wheat'...  job done! advertising is really just about getting the name out there and in the front of peoples mind for when they next get lost in the supermarket

 

I don't have a prob with 'northern' being in the media..don't really care if its not all perfect and don't expect it to be (as in the film) its just a shame that whenever it is its always the same!!! which we all know is a tiny part of its history and a small part of the soul scene today and as far as the baggie fashion goes its upto you if you wanna wear it but it doesnt look good to most people..70s wont go down in history as a particular good decade for clothes full stop...unlike the 60s which is why steve catos short film which  this ad tends to copy looks a lot cooler IMO and would certainly bring in more kids?

 

 

sadly its how things are today I suppose..any mention of scooters will always talk about a few times in the 60s when a few hundred mods went on the rampage..don't talk about every year the 80s when between 3 and 10000 scooterists(some mods)..went on the rampage :thumbsup: every 3 weeks all over the country not just in bloody brighton on scoots they weren't covered in mirrors!

Edited by spacehopper

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I for one thought that the film was extremely accurate in it's portrayal of 'Burnsworth' and some Casino goers in 1974. The research was incredible.

What really disappoints me with the media when covering the scene is the complete lack of research. They start off with a pre-conceived notion of N.Soul (baggies, talc, vests and badges), helpfully provided by previous incompetents, and then search for things to re-inforce that stereotype. They are not in the least bit interested in portraying a balanced or accurate view. What they want to portray is a caricature, and what we end up with is a cartoon.

I have given up expecting any research at all from the Beeb or other stations, hardly a year goes by without some piece talking about N.Soul as though it was, and is, all about Wigan. A familiar talking head (Waterman talking about f*cking miners) and a snatch of Frank Wilson, some star-struck imbeciles still wearing the clothes worn by a few, sartorially challenged, poor kids forty years ago and that's it folks. Let's move on to the nude vicars charity calendar.

On the whole, our music is used to good effect in advertisements but what surprises me about the Shreddies thing is that, unlike TV, a lot of money is spent making advertisements. A thirty second ad in Coronation St. will cost at least £100,000 per showing. For that sort of money you would expect a lot of research, and so the conclusion I draw is that the ad agency know they are being inaccurate but; the ad guys must genuinely believe that a man dressed like a clown will encourage people to eat their product as opposed to an everyman figure. They are therefore guilty of misrepresenting our scene - on purpose. 

Is there a film or an ad that I would be happy with? I've already praised the film, I don't think TV is capable of doing a balanced view of N.Soul. Most ad's are just music so that's ok but this ad is a deliberate misrepresentation.

For what it's worth I think they blundered. I can't see many people identifying with this bloke (a nice chap by all accounts) and I think the point would have been better made with an everyman/woman figure. But hey, what do I know?

Now. Moving on to the nude vicars charity calendar................................ :)

I should explain, I never made any of those comments mentioned in my initial post, I also thought the film was very accurate and very good, they were just some of the things I saw quoted on various threads both here and on social media.

As for the research done on the advert. I was meant to audition for the part, I was given 4 hours notice to find memorabilia and clothes that I might have kept from the early 7Ts. Then expected to travel to Manchester the next day for the audition, (from Bedford). I declined due to personal circumstances, but the filming was supposed to be done at Blackburn, but was switched to Worcester the very next weekend. So I would suggest that research was set at minimum.

Personally I don't see any way in which the Northern scene is not going to be touched, tasted and ultimately spat out by the media, just the way it is in 2015.

Edited by pikeys dog
swearing - workplace filters

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Having just had a look at the Shredded Wheat website -- there appears to be another advert (which I can't play because I'm at work) featuring a woman in a wetsuit?  So I would say as cringe-worthy as the advert is, Shredded Wheat's take on it seems to be along the lines of, "look, here are some people doing this unusual quirky thing that we can portray as involving being fit and healthy..."  So on some level, they probably want to portray us as "freaks" rather than everyday people...  If that makes any sense...

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Having just had a look at the Shredded Wheat website -- there appears to be another advert (which I can't play because I'm at work) featuring a woman in a wetsuit?  So I would say as cringe-worthy as the advert is, Shredded Wheat's take on it seems to be along the lines of, "look, here are some people doing this unusual quirky thing that we can portray as involving being fit and healthy..."  So on some level, they probably want to portray us as "freaks" rather than everyday people...  If that makes any sense...

Maybe the underlying theme is powder, marching for us (allegedly), talcum for the wet suit brigade :)

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Our beloved scene has fragmented into a many different genres

We have club classics, oldies, 70s, modern,r&b, rear etc etc

All under the name of Northern Soul.

The film and advert aims at the oldies section and that just don't work

for all the other soulies 

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Our beloved scene has fragmented into a many different genres

We have club classics, oldies, 70s, modern,r&b, rear etc etc

All under the name of Northern Soul.

The film and advert aims at the oldies section and that just don't work

for all the other soulies 

I'm not trying to be disrespectful here Mick, but can I just point out, it's mostly the oldies crowd that refer to themselves as soulies. The point I'm making is that there does seem to be a certain amount of crossover (insert comical musical reference here) between the two groups, oldies/upfront. 

There was a thread a couple of months ago, and some lad was on about making a thread, Russ Vickers came up with a brilliant plot for him, but even if it were to be made, wouldn't that also put us once again in the media spotlight. Can we ever really get away from the vest and bags image?

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As for the research done on the advert. I was meant to audition for the part, I was given 4 hours notice to find memorabilia and clothes that I might have kept from the early 7Ts....... So I would suggest that research was set at minimum.

Personally I don't see any way in which the Northern scene is not going to be touched, tasted and ultimately spat out by the media, just the way it is in 2015.

 

Yes Winnie, you confirmed how these people work. They had already done their "research" and decided that they wanted someone in fancy dress, hence the request for you to take 70's clothes. Anyone normal need not apply.

Betcha glad you missed it now eh?

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I thought the film was pretty much very well received. I enjoyed it, bought the DVD and have watched it several times. The Shredded Wheat advert isn't really representative of the scene as I see it, and does give the impression we all dress in 70s clothes, but fair enough if that's how that bloke wants to dress. I also thought the Paul Mason documentary was pretty good. On the other hand the dance class videos on YouTube and that bloke at Blackpool are a joke.

 

I think it's wrong to assume everyone has a negative reaction to every single depiction of the northern scene. I'd say that, like me, most people have a mixture of reactions.

 

We'll never see a true depiction of the scene as it is now because, let's face it, fat blokes in their 50s in check shirts and jeans from Primark and Jacamo just aren't that photogenic... :(

Edited by Matt Male

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Of course there can't be a media blackout, however other than the film which I thought was excellent and that short film about Steve Cato going to Soul Revolution I find all other representations narrow minded, focusing on a handful of the scenes years peak time in the 70s or the recent nostalgia scene with its uniform.

 

dont lose any sleep over it though :)

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What is the average age on the scene? I would suggest about 55, 20 years onward and there will be no scene unless young uns join and take ownership. The recent publicity may stir the interest of young uns about an underground music scene. I have no issue with the film, advertisements or JM seeking publicity to hike the price of those expensive vinyl and that will attract news interest. No escape from public interest and curiosity; and within our community there are always going to be those who court publicity just as others look to avoid it, we are just gonna learn to live with it.

The only thing I would like to avoid is inviting film crews into the venues when we are on a night out.

King Cnut couldn't stop the tide and neither will we. :hatsoff2:

do we need the dumbing down of the scene you either get it or not :)

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I thought the film was pretty much very well received. I enjoyed it, bought the DVD and have watched it several times. The Shredded Wheat advert isn't really representative of the scene as I see it, and does give the impression we all dress in 70s clothes, but fair enough if that's how that bloke wants to dress. I also thought the Paul Mason documentary was pretty good. On the other hand the dance class videos on YouTube and that bloke at Blackpool are a joke.

I think it's wrong to assume everyone has a negative reaction to every single depiction of the northern scene. I'd say that, like me, most people have a mixture of reactions.

We'll never see a true depiction of the scene as it is now because, let's face it, fat blokes in their 50s in check shirts and jeans from Primark and Jacamo just aren't that photogenic... :(

Primark may be what you wear...personally I think its nasty cheap crap

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All you need to do is guess who is providing the research & then all becomes clear, I'm not certain by any means, but its a pretty good bet....history has & is being re written, via the media & aimed at the lowest common denominator, the nostalgia oldies crowd, its all about the soul $$$......

 

Russ

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One of the worst media intrusions for me is Youtube and the endless amateur videos filmed at venues there are bloody hundreds of them . When I go out I want to enjoy myself I don't want some tosser with a camera anywhere near me and worrying if I,m going to end up on the web .

The general media have never done us any favours why we should cooperate with them at all leaves me puzzled and those so called " Soulies " that do need to give their heads a good wobble as they are doing the scene they claim to love a great disservice .

Edited by Mark S

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One of the worst media intrusions for me is Youtube and the endless amateur videos filmed at venues there are bloody hundreds of them . When I go out I want to enjoy myself I don't want some tosser with a camera anywhere near me and worrying if I,m going to end up on the web .

The general media have never done us any favours why we should cooperate with them at all leaves me puzzled and those so called " Soulies " that do need to give their heads a good wobble as they are doing the scene they claim to love a great disservice .

 

This is why until relatively recently, there has been very little photographic footage, no one wanted to be photographed !.

 

Russ

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I don't think the film is aimed at the oldies crowd though Mick, it's them that most of the negative comments on the film I've seen has come from. It's aimed at a wider audience then the Northern Scene - anyone who is into any all night dance scene could relate to it, my mates on the house scene loved it and some said it could have been about the Hacienda. That's why its nominated for and NME award and BAFTA - not many of us duffers on that panel :)

 

the advert - probably is partly aimed at the oldies scene demographic though as it tells the story of a majority of them - left the scene for decades now reliving their youth. 

Our beloved scene has fragmented into a many different genres

We have club classics, oldies, 70s, modern,r&b, rear etc etc

All under the name of Northern Soul.

The film and advert aims at the oldies section and that just don't work

for all the other soulies 

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Genuinely interested Winnie. You was considering doing this and unfortunately personal circumstances didn't allow you too.

 

can I ask, why did you want to do it, just interested to understand the drivers of people particpting in an advert featuring Northern Soul as a theme.

 

cheers

I should explain, I never made any of those comments mentioned in my initial post, I also thought the film was very accurate and very good, they were just some of the things I saw quoted on various threads both here and on social media.

As for the research done on the advert. I was meant to audition for the part, I was given 4 hours notice to find memorabilia and clothes that I might have kept from the early 7Ts. Then expected to travel to Manchester the next day for the audition, (from Bedford). I declined due to personal circumstances, but the filming was supposed to be done at Blackburn, but was switched to Worcester the very next weekend. So I would suggest that research was set at minimum.

Personally I don't see any way in which the Northern scene is not going to be touched, tasted and ultimately spat out by the media, just the way it is in 2015.

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What people do or wear is entirely up to them but when they perform for the media as part of a professional promotion then expect comment.

John (from 38 inch bags to 38inch waist)

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Genuinely interested Winnie. You was considering doing this and unfortunately personal circumstances didn't allow you too.

 

can I ask, why did you want to do it, just interested to understand the drivers of people particpting in an advert featuring Northern Soul as a theme.

 

cheers

I was added to a casting group on facebook Byrney, didn't even know it existed. Within a couple of days this job came up, no description at all, apart from that it was for an advert. As I was at a loose end that whole week, I thought it might be fun and keep me busy. I said to the group admin, if it's in any way tacky, I wouldn't get involved, this all happened on a Monday. Tuesday, some sad news broke, which put me on the back foot, but I'd already pretty much decided it wasn't for me as there were no details to hand, and that made me suspicious. Not the group admin's fault, they just hadn't been told where, when or what the advert was about. On the Thursday, and still in the dark, I got an e-mail, think it was at 7 at night, asking me to bring any memorabilia I'd saved and my clothes from the 7Ts :) and to be in Manchester, at 11 the next morning for the audition. This was from the people actually making the advert, so I wrote back to them and said, can't do it, but thanks for the opportunity, and that was that. So boredom made me consider it, but reality and realisation that I'm not really that person stopped me. I'm not against the media, no point being like that really, if they want to get involved, nothing will stop them, but I also thought back to a recent Nuneaton nighter the one that Paul Mason was interviewing people at, and my reactions when I encountered him outside. I turned my back, just in case he tried to interview me, I wasn't being purposely rude, just didn't want to be involved. 

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Underground scene ???? It's not been underground since mid 70s  personally I can't for the life of me see why some folk are moaning about films,adverts T Shirts ect ect ect Differant Strokes for Differant Folks what's one mans poison is another persons medicen you know the old warcry of the soul crowd don't Keep the Faith ...Spread it.... Isn't that what's happening thro films adverts on TV ect ect I've seen a big upsurge of young people getting into the music over the last 10 years why's that.... It's because the music is great the social side is great I've been on what's termed the Northern scene since the late 60s I don't give a flying pigs lug about the medias current love of promoting their products with soul music in fact it's great they acknowledge this wonderful music Shredded Wheat me n Ian Botham love em LOL

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We'll never see a true depiction of the scene as it is now because, let's face it, fat blokes in their 50s in check shirts and jeans from Primark and Jacamo just aren't that photogenic... :(

leave me out of it please

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Underground scene ???? It's not been underground since mid 70s  personally I can't for the life of me see why some folk are moaning about films,adverts T Shirts ect ect ect Differant Strokes for Differant Folks what's one mans poison is another persons medicen you know the old warcry of the soul crowd don't Keep the Faith ...Spread it.... Isn't that what's happening thro films adverts on TV ect ect I've seen a big upsurge of young people getting into the music over the last 10 years why's that.... It's because the music is great the social side is great I've been on what's termed the Northern scene since the late 60s I don't give a flying pigs lug about the medias current love of promoting their products with soul music in fact it's great they acknowledge this wonderful music Shredded Wheat me n Ian Botham love em LOL

 

Well i for one will be trying to throw folks off the scent. A nice ready rubbed in an old briar for me.Copy that !! Coupled with chin stroking,a nighter this Saturday,and hearty bowl of Oat so Simple on Sunday morning.....pipesmokin chin strokin porridge eatin

Long live Northern Soul.  :lol:

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Well i for one will be trying to throw folks off the scent. A nice ready rubbed in an old briar for me.Copy that !! Coupled with chin stroking,a nighter this Saturday,and hearty bowl of Oat so Simple on Sunday morning.....pipesmokin chin strokin porridge eatin

Long live Northern Soul.  :lol:

LOL Kev I'm from Leigh we eat Shredded wheat without milk mmmmmmm I've bought records that have been in worse nick than a half eaten Shredded W

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LOL Kev I'm from Leigh we eat Shredded wheat without milk mmmmmmm I've bought records that have been in worse nick than a half eaten Shredded W

Doesn't stop you selling them though :wicked:

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Cheers for that mate, good insight. Surprisingly to some I'd expect, I'm not adverse to the media highlighting the scene as Im well aware it's far from underground anymore and hasn't been since the mid 90s.

 

A big my bug bare mainly in my view is their portrayal is usually tacky, we're made a spectacle or curiosity and far too often they focus on a handful of years in the 70s or on people in a uniform today, reliving their youth which adds, let's say 'colour' to their portrayal :)

 

If the media did something like the one with Steve heading down to Soul Revolution (which was a blinding nighter) then I'm all for it. But other than the film I can't think of any in my view, and definitely including Paul Masons doc that doesn't makes us look naff.

 

 

I was added to a casting group on facebook Byrney, didn't even know it existed. Within a couple of days this job came up, no description at all, apart from that it was for an advert. As I was at a loose end that whole week, I thought it might be fun and keep me busy. I said to the group admin, if it's in any way tacky, I wouldn't get involved, this all happened on a Monday. Tuesday, some sad news broke, which put me on the back foot, but I'd already pretty much decided it wasn't for me as there were no details to hand, and that made me suspicious. Not the group admin's fault, they just hadn't been told where, when or what the advert was about. On the Thursday, and still in the dark, I got an e-mail, think it was at 7 at night, asking me to bring any memorabilia I'd saved and my clothes from the 7Ts :) and to be in Manchester, at 11 the next morning for the audition. This was from the people actually making the advert, so I wrote back to them and said, can't do it, but thanks for the opportunity, and that was that. So boredom made me consider it, but reality and realisation that I'm not really that person stopped me. I'm not against the media, no point being like that really, if they want to get involved, nothing will stop them, but I also thought back to a recent Nuneaton nighter the one that Paul Mason was interviewing people at, and my reactions when I encountered him outside. I turned my back, just in case he tried to interview me, I wasn't being purposely rude, just didn't want to be involved. 

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I bought you lots of drinks on the night. Not my fault you were too drunk to remember!

I heard ya robbed the Buffett  and opened a Stall sellin pastries n cup cakes outside some posh Golf Club in  Worsley Sunday mornin and here's me thinking you,d retired ha ha ...

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