https://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=181596332847 Don't want to diss this guy but he does state they are NOT originals why on earth would you pay this sort of money for these plus he is selling these by the bucket loads he should actually state they are NEW ,his starting price is a reasonable £20 ,then you get out bid only to find another copy turns up later I leave this in your ball court

He has now just offered me a bob and fred for 35 I politely declined stating that you are all over ss takers anyone ???

We all have a "rough " idea of what the 45s we are chasing are worth , so if I saw a Roscoe Thomas at £30

I would know its a boot , but inwardly hoping someone had made an error and would do my best not to bid !

( just using Roscoe as an example , saw it for £175 recently , didn't have enough cash and let it drift away

which at the moment is the story of my life !! )

Anyway nice thread and a wake up call to the new guys on the scene ,OVO works for me and will keep on looking

He's selling these at up to $400 !!!

 

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  THE NATURAL FOUR - I THOUGHT YOU WERE MINE
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  DEL LARKS - JOB OPENING
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  THE CASHMERES - SHOW STOPPER
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  GEORGE LEMONS - FASCINATING GIRL

Arrived today thank you. Making it's debut on Acacia Radio 18:00-21:00 4/2/15.

7***7 ( 213)

During past month   THE CASHMERES - SHOW STOPPER (#181648099443) GBP 42.70

 

It all totally dismays me. Just what really is the point any more? I've been to loads of do's in recent times where the local "top DJ's" are on with their prized collection of carvers, boots and reissues with stuck on labels. They get praised and lauded by the crowd. You hear comments like "I never knew he had this one" from the crowd, to (one I heard recently at a night I had the misfortune to attend) hearing the DJ state "here's the ever popular Chicago mega-rarity" while he stuck on a boot of The Salvadors. I really fecking despair.

It all totally dismays me. Just what really is the point any more? I've been to loads of do's in recent times where the local "top DJ's" are on with their prized collection of carvers, boots and reissues with stuck on labels. They get praised and lauded by the crowd. You hear comments like "I never knew he had this one" from the crowd, to (one I heard recently at a night I had the misfortune to attend) hearing the DJ state "here's the ever popular Chicago mega-rarity" while he stuck on a boot of The Salvadors. I really fecking despair.

Same here.

It all totally dismays me. Just what really is the point any more? I've been to loads of do's in recent times where the local "top DJ's" are on with their prized collection of carvers, boots and reissues with stuck on labels. They get praised and lauded by the crowd. You hear comments like "I never knew he had this one" from the crowd, to (one I heard recently at a night I had the misfortune to attend) hearing the DJ state "here's the ever popular Chicago mega-rarity" while he stuck on a boot of The Salvadors. I really fecking despair.

Someone on Soul Source a few years back commented on a thread discussing venues that describe themselves as Original Vinyl Only - OVO. They put forward the idea that venues such as the one you attended should advertise as playing "Carvers, Reissues And Pressings". This could then be abbreviated to "CRAP" and they could advertise as such.

 

You would then have CRAP DJ's and CRAP venues playing CRAP.

 

No offence intended.

I assume we're talking about "KeithRed" here ? Doesn't seem to be anything for sale right now ?

Edited January 30, 201510 yr by Chris L

Bloody hell, that del larks is close tho, the printer must be very good.

Not that i would ever buy one, as i like a record with character, A REAL ONE !.

Happy hunting out there.

The seller is making it quite plain that what he is selling is a re-issue/bootleg with real looking labels stuck on. However, the people buying them may not be quite as up front in say two or three years if they decide to sell them on. Or suppose  you've popped your clogs and the missus is sticking them up on ebay trying to get the best price, she could unwittingly think they were original.

There`s at least 3 folk on Ebay doing this......here`s another one.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/raptorbass2014/m.html?item=201272710070&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Waste of time reporting it because i`ve tried.........

It all totally dismays me. Just what really is the point any more? I've been to loads of do's in recent times where the local "top DJ's" are on with their prized collection of carvers, boots and reissues with stuck on labels. They get praised and lauded by the crowd. You hear comments like "I never knew he had this one" from the crowd, to (one I heard recently at a night I had the misfortune to attend) hearing the DJ state "here's the ever popular Chicago mega-rarity" while he stuck on a boot of The Salvadors. I really fecking despair.

I must live a very sheltered life, because I don't see that happening at our main events here in Gloucestershire - although there are several nights where it's more likely, so I don't bother with them. I toyed with buying the Little Tommy 7" that's doing the rounds at the moment, but decided against it as most people that I know and respect know darn well that I could never afford a proper one, so I could never play it out - and I have it on CD if I'm at home anyway...

Someone on Soul Source a few years back commented on a thread discussing venues that describe themselves as Original Vinyl Only - OVO. They put forward the idea that venues such as the one you attended should advertise as playing "Carvers, Reissues And Pressings". This could then be abbreviated to "CRAP" and they could advertise as such.

 

You would then have CRAP DJ's and CRAP venues playing CRAP.

 

No offence intended.

But if a venue has a mix of DJ's some play OVO and some play CRAP you could have an OVO CRAP or CRAP OVO event. That would confuse the hell out of punters.

But if a venue has a mix of DJ's some play OVO and some play CRAP you could have an OVO CRAP or CRAP OVO event. That would confuse the hell out of punters.

I think they've already got that covered  . They are called "100% Vinyl Only".

It's fooking mental , now anybody who is prepared to pay big money on any record you would think that they know they're stuff but he actually states that they are boots/2nd issues whatever and people are paying stupid spandoolies WTF !!!

Being in graphic design I know what I'm doing Monday   , mind you I did do a quality 45 Label for Tommy Tate  on Ko Ko about 20 years ago 

The 1976 Silver Spotlight Series UK reissues of Little Anthony - Better Use Your Head/Gonna Fix You Good seem to be getting regularly transformed into original UK Demos.

If played out, it would certainly fool the cameras, but given that it was mixed in stereo, to complete the illusion, the DJ would also need to remember to flick the Mono switch on the amplifier. 

Out and out carvers with counterfeit labels are exactly that and made to decieve and thieve from the unsuspecting in many cases.

 

I really don't agree with all these 'legit' look-a -like re-issues either, it leaves too much room for abuse by unscrupulous sellers.

 

For example, Tramp have done many - too many imho - 'replica'/repros Little Gregory, Rudy Lambert, etc etc and now Rising Sun but so have companies like Numero..

 

Just saying like

most of the numero ones are pretty easy to tell since they'll have telltale markings somewhere on the label (except the omnibus box set), but yeah the tramp ones are exact.

All of these are easy to tell as they are bootleg/reissues with different labels stuck on top. If you don't

know the difference you shouldn't be buying records. I can't see anyone being fooled by these.

The people buying them for big money are just idiots.

RedKeith is not being very honest as he does not use the word Boot or counterfeit. Why? because he knows that he could be prosecuted just like someone who takes poor cigarettes and puts them into fake Malboro  packs. IF someone did that on ebay they would be prosecuted so why not this person or others who don't say that they are counterfeit copies which is actually what they are and not reissues! This is about real deception and if he was really honest he would as its an auction give a guide price!

A key thing is that we don't know what the long-term effect will be from this practice. We could be at the last stage of serious record collecting and I'm being 100% serious here.

 

I have no axes to grind as I've had several incredible vinyl collections over the years but I stopped collecting rare original Northern vinyl 45s around 35 years ago. I still stumble into stuff but I tend to move it on to those who can get more use from them than I will.

 

However, in the last few years, I've looked through some boxes of well-known DJs from across the scene and spotted some very, very good boots. I knew they were boots 'cos I've had the originals and can tell. When I pointed out that a certain record was a definite boot, the general reaction was a shrug and 'OK. C'est la vie. Life goes on.' No big deal. 

 

So the lines are getting blurred. Something very very near to an original seems to be acceptable in many quarters. I know this first-hand 'cos I've had that Mel Britt 'oh so close' boot and the Miki Farrow boot which was good enough to pass muster and had people begging to buy them because they were near as dammit to the real thing as the real things were way beyond most people's budgets. Plus, the percentage of qualified people who can be bothered to tell the difference is diminishing every year and has little relevance to a younger audience who just want to dance to great records anyway.

 

So it doesn't surprise me that 'superior counterfeit' operations are springing up. The water's are muddying all the time. That Del-Larks counterfeit looks spot on to me. In fact, it's BETTER than the water-damaged one I bought for £2 in 1975. Forget ever finding an original and being able to afford it. That's simply not an option to the numerous people who would like that record in 2015. So, a very, very good boot is the next best option.

 

Future Manship Price Guides will have to acknowledge this area and prices will be dictated by how close the boot is to the original and how many were done. It's a whole new area.

 

The strange world of Northern Soul ay?

 

Ian D 

Edited January 31, 201510 yr by Ian Dewhirst

theres gonna be some great threads on here in ten years time about some of these records

jason

A guy on eBay that regularly lists these pressings/re-issues with stuck on labels won a couple of 'proper' 1970's vintage pressings off me recently, I am now expecting them to be auctioned off very soon with freshly printed labels and see him get  back three times his original investment.

He is very honest (if you can call it that) about what he is selling, so I won't make further comment on that side of things.

More than wiling to make a comment on that side of things. He is being open rather than honest. Some would call it bare-faced cheek. This is a mercenary enterprise that can only undermine the record buying market in times ahead. To pay serious money for a photocopied label Pritt Sticked onto a bootleg in a counterfeit operation beggars belief. Surely, sensible vinyl buyers can by-pass these fakes?

theres gonna be some great threads on here in ten years time about some of these records

jason

 

They already have legitimacy. I just looked at 'em again. That Natural Four looks bang on too. How many people would want to argue the toss with a top DJ at an OVO gig? 

 

These guys will all be competing as to who can get the best counterfeits. The fun is just beginning..........

 

Ian D 

It all totally dismays me. Just what really is the point any more? I've been to loads of do's in recent times where the local "top DJ's" are on with their prized collection of carvers, boots and reissues with stuck on labels. They get praised and lauded by the crowd. You hear comments like "I never knew he had this one" from the crowd, to (one I heard recently at a night I had the misfortune to attend) hearing the DJ state "here's the ever popular Chicago mega-rarity" while he stuck on a boot of The Salvadors. I really fecking despair.

Phil 'i have misfortune of attending local do's where the Dj's play club classics and carvers , boots, reissues , the handbag crowd who are there think these Dj's are top guys and thats Northern soul , the dj's nor the crowd are none knowledgeable  shit bags.

The scene was built on original 45 played out by Dj's  back in the day and you had to go to venues where they were on , unfortunately its not like that anymore and the scene  is no its arse .

Edited January 31, 201510 yr by Aaron Darcy

Phil 'i have misfortune of attending local do's where the Dj's play club classics and carvers , boots, reissues , the handbag crowd who are there think these Dj's are top guys and thats Northern soul , the dj's nor the crowd are none knowledgeable  shit bags.

The scene was built on original 45 played out by Dj's  back in the day and you had to go to venues where they were on , unfortunately its not like that anymore and the scene  is no its arse .

About right there, not sure about on it`s arse but that may happen. 

 

Thing is, who started bootlegging on the scene all those years ago?.......  ...all for the same reason. 

 

Future Manship Price Guides will have to acknowledge this area and prices will be dictated by how close the boot is to the original and how many were done. It's a whole new area.

 

The strange world of Northern Soul ay?

 

Ian D 

 

This has already started Ian, albeit in a very small way, in Manship's 6th Edition where the Eddie Parker I'm Gone Awake counterfeit is listed and valued..

 

But I disagree the original vinyl collecting of the future looks as bleak as you paint it, apart from the very high-end items, the sheer volume of quality 45's and the pleasure of the original physical object will continue. The argument continues as it has for decades..

Arrived today thank you. Making it's debut on Acacia Radio 18:00-21:00 4/2/15.

7***7 ( 213)

During past month   THE CASHMERES - SHOW STOPPER (#181648099443) GBP 42.70

 

 

 

Not hard to work out who the buyer is - Acacia is based in Annesley, Notts

 

Just go into their website and it will tell you who is the presenter of that show

Someone called Paul Lightly bought it, then.

RedKeith is not being very honest as he does not use the word Boot or counterfeit. Why? because he knows that he could be prosecuted just like someone who takes poor cigarettes and puts them into fake Malboro  packs. IF someone did that on ebay they would be prosecuted so why not this person or others who don't say that they are counterfeit copies which is actually what they are and not reissues! This is about real deception and if he was really honest he would as its an auction give a guide price!

Ebay prosecute???? There are dealers really exploiting the counterfeit angle with feedback running into 00000,s and ebay have done bugger all to theses people.Wish they would it makes a mochery of record collecting.

This has already started Ian, albeit in a very small way, in Manship's 6th Edition where the Eddie Parker I'm Gone Awake counterfeit is listed and valued..

 

But I disagree the original vinyl collecting of the future looks as bleak as you paint it, apart from the very high-end items, the sheer volume of quality 45's and the pleasure of the original physical object will continue. The argument continues as it has for decades..

There's not many decades left in many of us, the counterfeiters are making hay whilst the sun still shines; I cant see the OFT chasing bootleggers of an obscure music scene. The next decade is likely to put many of us into retirement or six feet under and some of those special collections will be broken up to pay for the care home fees. Those buying these counterfeits now are acting in haste, they need only wait a few years before original gems get sold and probably for a hell of a lot less than like the the price JM recently secured for the Eddie Parker. The OAP isn't generous enough to fund serious record collecting, the priority buys will be a walking stick and we can debate whether its an original WS based on the rubber tip. 

 

Atb

Stu

Have just had some unreleased tunes cut onto dub plates, and the firm I used has a service that will cut onto vinyl, and if you send them artwork, they will print the labels for you.

Going a little bit off-topic but as a member of the "younger generation", what is the best way of telling boots from OG issues?

A lot of people say "the feel" which I understand to a point but isn't specific enough (especially in 10 years time when they get worn).

 

It scares me a little that the people with knowledge will one day not be with us.

That time when you ask "Is this a boot?" and no one knows because there's no originals or the boot is mistaken for an original. It's gonna be hard when those lines merge. Guess it's just down to passing on knowledge, collections and hoping the younger ones KTF.....

Geoff you don't even have to buy Manships guide...go to the search function on here and put "The Parliaments" or whoever and search look at your box.Nine times out of ten there will be a big thread on how to tell fake from real.Lots of free knowledge on here.

I have shot to the end of the thread not seen all but i am not worried about him but its the records that are then moved on a lot of people are gonna get mugged 

take care out there

 

stin

They already have legitimacy. I just looked at 'em again. That Natural Four looks bang on too. How many people would want to argue the toss with a top DJ at an OVO gig? 

 

These guys will all be competing as to who can get the best counterfeits. The fun is just beginning..........

 

Ian D 

Am I missing something here ?

Are we saying that they look exactly the same as an original and therefore the only way to tell if it is an original is to examine the matrix markings etc in the run off ?

If so it's time for an updated guide with original matrix markings.

Am I missing something here ?

Are we saying that they look exactly the same as an original and therefore the only way to tell if it is an original is to examine the matrix markings etc in the run off ?

If so it's time for an updated guide with original matrix markings.

 

Yep. 

 

Ian D 

Am I missing something here ?

Are we saying that they look exactly the same as an original and therefore the only way to tell if it is an original is to examine the matrix markings etc in the run off ?

If so it's time for an updated guide with original matrix markings.

Some of us have been doing this for years, without the aid of guides...

 

I don't think 'collectors' have a problem with these as they are just another 'non original' that can be ignored.

 

These are bought by people who want to pretend they are collectors

Edited February 5, 201510 yr by grouse

Some of us have been doing this for years, without the aid of guides...

 

I don't think 'collectors' have a problem with these as they are just another 'non original' that can be ignored.

 

These are bought by people who want to pretend they are collectors

Good to hear. so you can tell them apart just by sight, feel etc based on experience?

 

Gonna be difficult for new collectors though, who don't have your expertise.