Found a copy recently and can't find much info on it, will probably sell it but don't want to do myself out as it's obviously pretty rare. There are no sales on Popsike and i've heard conflicting values up to £1000's so any info would be appreciated.

Atb

Vince

8 minutes ago, Mace said:

So does Ian Levines own copy have this tell tale stamp under the label or is his a boot as well ?

Need a better quality image , can't enlarge a small JPEG like that without it getting too 'blocky' to see clearly.

46 minutes ago, Mace said:

So does Ian Levines own copy have this tell tale stamp under the label or is his a boot as well ?

Just pulled the larger image of Ian's off his FB page , can see no obvious evidence of the underlying stamp on it ... 

3 minutes ago, WoodButcher said:

Just pulled the larger image of Ian's off his FB page , can see no obvious evidence of the underlying stamp on it ... 

Oh the irony.................

And the typeface is subtly different too up close , no nice crisp corners as I'd expect to see on an "old'un" ... !

Hope he didn't pay too much for it ... 

So if the 3 recent copies are boots, can we assume that it was in fact, never issued then?

30 minutes ago, WoodButcher said:

And the typeface is subtly different too up close , no nice crisp corners as I'd expect to see on an "old'un" ... !

Hope he didn't pay too much for it ... 

Also, all those other label scans have nice crisp clean centres.....even the ones with label wear......Levines looks rougher cut around the centre hole.......

And on the original images posted on page 1 the labels are clearly lifting and bubbled.

The original post on the subject was 28th May 2015 .

The datestamp on the accompanying photo details show that it was taken over two years earlier .... ?

33 minutes ago, tsu tomatoes said:

So if the 3 recent copies are boots, can we assume that it was in fact, never issued then?

The song was registered at one time with BMI (I've checked) and also with it's inclusion in the Soul Harmony Singles Book one would assume that one of either Beckman, Hunt or Kline (or all three of them) had a copy in their possession at one time.

Dave

 

Edited January 29, 20169 yr by Louise

it's off a digital camera, not a phone, i for one have never set the date on any digital camera i've owned.

8 minutes ago, Kris Holmes said:

it's off a digital camera, not a phone, i for one have never set the date on any digital camera i've owned.

Obvious grey area I admit , personally speaking setting the time/date is the first thing I do when setting up a new camera body . 

the circular lines under the label are characteristic of United Record Pressing in Nashville but their stuff can't fool anyone because they all have the small "U" in a circle scratched in the deadwax.

Had a play and you're spot on , the M jumps right out and the typeface is crispy ... 

Light touch with the Emboss filter in "Gimp" ... 

Well, well, well...look what I found on Adobe Bootfilter......

5 hours ago, WoodButcher said:

It seems to be on the 1st Harry Moon image too , harder to see on the other images but I'll try a little tweaking ... 

It is definitely there on the Harry Moon. Looking at my scans I posted up earlier, this mark is not visible other than as the faintest of specks. In fact, to be honest, I have never noticed this before - it's so small and just looks like a mark on the label from wear and tear. However, on close examination, it is definitely there and I took a closer pic of it, as below. It is pretty much exactly the same position as on the picture of the copy above. I bought mine off George Mahood maybe 18 months/2 years ago.

4 hours ago, Mace said:

Well, well, well...look what I found on Adobe Bootfilter......

Hahaha!!!

Does anyone have a listing for Jenges and the associated labels with the colours of the releases etc?

13 hours ago, Kris Holmes said:

the circular lines under the label are characteristic of United Record Pressing in Nashville but their stuff can't fool anyone because they all have the small "U" in a circle scratched in the deadwax.

 

I was thinking that as well, but these swirly-look-a-likes look a whole lot like the stuff coming from the Pallas pressing plant in Germany (and its US branch) as well...

https://www.discogs.com/label/271440-Schallplattenfabrik-Pallas-GmbH
https://www.discogs.com/label/632752-Pallas-USA
https://www.discogs.com/label/277449-PO-Pallas
https://www.discogs.com/label/137255-Pallas

Some examples:

 

 

15 hours ago, Mace said:

Also, all those other label scans have nice crisp clean centres.....even the ones with label wear......Levines looks rougher cut around the centre hole.......

The "lookalike 20" have perfectly cut centre holes if that's any help

16 hours ago, tsu tomatoes said:

So if the 3 recent copies are boots, can we assume that it was in fact, never issued then?

No. As per my previous post it has been listed in the Soul harmony Singles book for years and the entries come from peoples collections.

15 minutes ago, Andy Mac said:

No. As per my previous post it has been listed in the Soul harmony Singles book for years and the entries come from peoples collections.

There are plenty of errors in Soul Harmony Singles though Drew.

A better scan of Harry & Vee Vee for you

2 minutes ago, chalky said:

A better scan of Harry & Vee Vee for you

My copy has a much deeper red and is a shiney label. Maybe this is just a bit worn ?

 

11 minutes ago, chalky said:

There are plenty of errors in Soul Harmony Singles though Drew.

That's true Chalks, but I'm sure I saw a copy of Satans Breed years ago....but maybe my memory is playing tricks.

23 minutes ago, guest said:

Satan's Breed is listed in the Renee discography as Renee 5006 - Since you left me b/w Roadrunner . Anyone got or even seen this ?

And Renee 5006 also lists as Dream Merchants -Since You Left Me / The Girl I Need .

This along with the mispressing of the 'B' side on the Jenges as mentioned earlier ... label reads "The Girl I Need" on the copy Ian has yet apparently plays something entitled "Can't Pull Myself Away" ... just makes things even murkier and harder to fathom.

Here's a pic of the 'b'-side by the way ... 

2 hours ago, guest said:

Where did that turn up ?

It's a photo of the b-side of IL's  copy , from his FB timeline ... 

 

I don't know about listen to them - listen to you lot - how said is this - give it a rest and get a life doing something useful, please.  Go and find out if metal record adaptors with record company logos and venue logos are licensed from the people who own the trademarks for instance.

It'd be interesting to know what Geoff got in trades for it , a couple of soul-packs maybe ... ?

Just now, WoodButcher said:

It'd be interesting to know what Geoff got in trades for it , a couple of soul-packs maybe ... ?

I wouldn't have traded a used tea bag for it

2 minutes ago, Pete S said:

I don't know about listen to them - listen to you lot - how said is this - give it a rest and get a life doing something useful, please.  Go and find out if metal record adaptors with record company logos and venue logos are licensed from the people who own the trademarks for instance.

Why's that Pete , have you got a full set of the adapters we're not supposed to know about  ...  

Just now, WoodButcher said:

Why's that Pete , have you got a full set of the adapters we're not supposed to know about  ...  

Might have...

5 minutes ago, guest said:

Surely you as a reputable dealer Pete would be just as interested in the information that has come to light in the last few days ? Next time a Satan's Breed lands in your lap you won't be paying a grand for it .

I wouldn't have touched it with a bargepole before all this fuss because it's not very good.  

 

44 minutes ago, Pete S said:

I don't know about listen to them - listen to you lot - how said is this - give it a rest and get a life doing something useful, please.  Go and find out if metal record adaptors with record company logos and venue logos are licensed from the people who own the trademarks for instance.

Says a record dealer!! To be expected for record collectors to get to the bottom of whether records are original or not. Don't read the thread if you're not interested.

12 minutes ago, markw said:

Says a record dealer!! To be expected for record collectors to get to the bottom of whether records are original or not. Don't read the thread if you're not interested.

It's not that though, is it.  It's another "lets find a scapegoat" topic.  

Edited January 30, 20169 yr by Pete S

5 minutes ago, guest said:

That's what I was thinking Mark . You know the saying 'if you give it - you got to take it' . If people try to rump you - then expect a few questions and if you do get found out - don't cry . If you poke someone in the eye - expect a reaction .

What if you wear an eye patch though, then you'd only have one eye.  What does "try to rump you" mean by the way LOL

20 minutes ago, markw said:

Says a record dealer!! To be expected for record collectors to get to the bottom of whether records are original or not. Don't read the thread if you're not interested.

OK then.

So, how many copies (suspect or otherwise) are in the hands of DJs, in the UK, that we know of?

Sean

Just the three Sean , as far as we can gather.

1 hour ago, WoodButcher said:

Just the three Sean , as far as we can gather.

Thank you.

So is that those belonging to Butch, Ian Levine and this Geoff chap?

Sean

I find this really strange. This tune which ain't that good is causing so much drama. If it was a good soul tune fair enough but all you lot are creating some kind of kudos about a garage type of tune (Carolina beach type of tune)  I mean would you buy it really and sit at home and play it ( meep f...king meep) yes it may be dodgy. Ooh it has philly connections. Boot , unreleased, only one original copy etc etc.  let's  get some soul back on here and let the ooh it's rare must be good clan get on with it ( kings new clothes)  I love the people who find real soul tunes £5 -5,000 tunes  lets hear them. Why if my mate plays a great tune no one cares but if dj X  plays it later it's fantastic. Could go on now with a rant about new people- returnees who somehow tend to dictate what we listen to. Hey ho many will know this, play a reoord and they go 'I don't know this and it's shit, few years later same person comes up and says hey mate check this tune out its fantastic and the answer is '?  Cheers

Ps. If you want a novelty record you can't beat the snake, we all know the words( inside the sssssssnake)  got to be better than meep meep  for singalong value cheers

Sorry I get told off for not putting, lol, smiley faces etc because I'm sure most of you know what I mean. s.w.a.l.k. Cheers

Some say music IS first and I (kinda) agree but it doesn't necessary mean "music is all !" To me (IMHO) that is. I can have the music in my head and sing out loud under the shower to the inconvenience of the wife, the cat, the dog and the neighbors. Others listen (rather to hide the outside world sound/buzz/noise) with headphones to MP3Z and still call it music !? I don't know about supposed louder than loud gigs with DJ's and their computer and other machines that kills everything that keeps us alive (quote)... So to say, I'm not to sure to dig 'road runner' for it's musicality and doubt it will ever achieve "anthem" status on any scene. Still I find such thread interesting from a collector's (I don't collect the Jenges stuffs to make it clear) point of view. Music and records are an odd universe in 4D's at times and to read meaningless supposed misleading points, are just bringing it to the real world; in 3D's: the naive, the liar and the cheater.

4 hours ago, Pga1 said:

I find this really strange. This tune which ain't that good is causing so much drama. If it was a good soul tune fair enough but all you lot are creating some kind of kudos about a garage type of tune (Carolina beach type of tune)  I mean would you buy it really and sit at home and play it ( meep f...king meep) yes it may be dodgy. Ooh it has philly connections. Boot , unreleased, only one original copy etc etc.  let's  get some soul back on here and let the ooh it's rare must be good clan get on with it ( kings new clothes)  I love the people who find real soul tunes £5 -5,000 tunes  lets hear them. Why if my mate plays a great tune no one cares but if dj X  plays it later it's fantastic. Could go on now with a rant about new people- returnees who somehow tend to dictate what we listen to. Hey ho many will know this, play a reoord and they go 'I don't know this and it's shit, few years later same person comes up and says hey mate check this tune out its fantastic and the answer is '?  Cheers

It isn't about what we always wish to hear out and there is more than just "us" out there.  There are many thousands who have nothing to do with the UK Northern Soul Scene which many seem to think that is all there is and certainly what it is all about  There are many collectors who don't go out, who aren't part of the scene, who collect the labels as well as the music.  Strangely there are people who like records like this who don't always want to hear a 100 mph stomper that has been hammered for 50 years  It is quite evident from the discussion that there is an interest. I don't see any kudos being created, I haven't really seen anyone raving over it, just an attempt to prove its authenticity, if it is real and how to tell its real.

to try and put this rambling topic to bed tho its a fair bet to say that if its got the swirly labels then its a recent press............... thats it

Edited January 31, 20169 yr by dave pinch

46 minutes ago, dave pinch said:

to try and put this rambling topic to bed tho its a fair bet to say that if its got the swirly labels then its a recent press............... thats it

I reckon so Dave. Especially if it also lacks the raised matrix numbers under the label which seem to be a feature of all the Jenges and related label releases.

6 hours ago, Pga1 said:

I find this really strange. This tune which ain't that good is causing so much drama. If it was a good soul tune fair enough but all you lot are creating some kind of kudos about a garage type of tune (Carolina beach type of tune)  I mean would you buy it really and sit at home and play it ( meep f...king meep) yes it may be dodgy. Ooh it has philly connections. Boot , unreleased, only one original copy etc etc.  let's  get some soul back on here and let the ooh it's rare must be good clan get on with it ( kings new clothes)  I love the people who find real soul tunes £5 -5,000 tunes  lets hear them. Why if my mate plays a great tune no one cares but if dj X  plays it later it's fantastic. Could go on now with a rant about new people- returnees who somehow tend to dictate what we listen to. Hey ho many will know this, play a reoord and they go 'I don't know this and it's shit, few years later same person comes up and says hey mate check this tune out its fantastic and the answer is '?  Cheers

Have you actually listened to this record or taken in any of the contents of this thread? The "meep meep" might be a bit daft I grant you and I well understand the argument that it might not the greatest soul record ever made, but no way can it be described as a "garage or Carolina beach type of tune"!! That is just daft to say that. Pure Philly soul, Gamble & Huff style, sounds like the Intruders all the way. "Garage or Carolina beach" ?

Someone's not paying attention and getting mixed up with Satan's Breed on A-L-M ... 

That's why I asked whether he'd actually bothered to read the thread or listen to the tune.

3 hours ago, chalky said:

It isn't about what we always wish to hear out and there is more than just "us" out there.  There are many thousands who have nothing to do with the UK Northern Soul Scene which many seem to think that is all there is and certainly what it is all about  There are many collectors who don't go out, who aren't part of the scene, who collect the labels as well as the music.  Strangely there are people who like records like this who don't always want to hear a 100 mph stomper that has been hammered for 50 years  It is quite evident from the discussion that there is an interest. I don't see any kudos being created, I haven't really seen anyone raving over it, just an attempt to prove its authenticity, if it is real and how to tell its real.

Well said Chalky, unfortunately high prices achieved are not just restricted to the northern soul fratrnity, I'm afraid to say there's been certain unscrupulous characters knocking out counterfeits of doo-wop, low rider, sweet and funk indemander's for many years now.

Dave

 

Edited January 31, 20169 yr by Louise

8 hours ago, Pga1 said:

I find this really strange. This tune which ain't that good is causing so much drama. If it was a good soul tune fair enough but all you lot are creating some kind of kudos about a garage type of tune (Carolina beach type of tune)  I mean would you buy it really and sit at home and play it ( meep f...king meep) yes it may be dodgy. Ooh it has philly connections. Boot , unreleased, only one original copy etc etc.  let's  get some soul back on here and let the ooh it's rare must be good clan get on with it ( kings new clothes)  I love the people who find real soul tunes £5 -5,000 tunes  lets hear them. Why if my mate plays a great tune no one cares but if dj X  plays it later it's fantastic. Could go on now with a rant about new people- returnees who somehow tend to dictate what we listen to. Hey ho many will know this, play a reoord and they go 'I don't know this and it's shit, few years later same person comes up and says hey mate check this tune out its fantastic and the answer is '?  Cheers

There are people out there who have been on the scene for decades and are not returnees trying to dictate to anyone and we have always been interested in the music rather than the "scene".  In fact its returnees in the main who want to hear the same old , same old ...that why there are so many oldies events with the baggy trouser and beer towel brigade.   Also there are thousands of people on the soul scene and beyond who are collectors and who are interested in labels, groups, authenticity etc. You completely miss the point with your rant, this is not about kudos or bragging rights, the thread is about the rarity/obscurity, the set of labels and their output and the authenticity of said record. If you want to rant about DJ's etc then start your own thread.