According to Dave Godin:

"..It was at Dartford Grammar School that I met Mick Jagger and introduced him to black music, I'm ashamed to say. It's ironic that as a result of meeting me he's where he is today." (see Wikipedia)

Godin date of birth: 21/ 6/ 36

Jagger date of birth: 26 /7/43

Secondary shool age in those days 11 -15 years old.

So Godin would have been at grammar school: 1947 -51 ..

Jagger at  grammar school:1954 - 58...

Can any anyone explain how Godin would have met Jagger at grammar school?

As far as I know Jagger has never spoken about knowing Godin...

 

 

 

 

He was his teacher? 

Ed

I've only ever read Jagger talking about people like Alexis Korner as major influences, although Godin certainly helped them get hold of the stuff that they covered evidenced by a letter to Godin from Brian Jones where Jones sends a tape reel as Godin had offered to record some Jimmy Reed tracks for them - which he would have hardly done if he was outraged by their ripping off Black artists. 

 

He certainly knew Jagger from the blues clubs around that area. An old blues collector remebers them all going to gigs together on the tube with Dave knitting!

7 hours ago, JoeSoap said:

According to Dave Godin:

"..It was at Dartford Grammar School that I met Mick Jagger and introduced him to black music, I'm ashamed to say. It's ironic that as a result of meeting me he's where he is today." (see Wikipedia)

Godin date of birth: 21/ 6/ 36

Jagger date of birth: 26 /7/43

Secondary shool age in those days 11 -15 years old.

So Godin would have been at grammar school: 1947 -51 ..

Jagger at  grammar school:1954 - 58...

Can any anyone explain how Godin would have met Jagger at grammar school?

As far as I know Jagger has never spoken about knowing Godin...

 

did Godin not do 6th form ?  if he did  wouldn't that add 3 years to your calculations as in stay till 18 ?
not clued up on the early 50s uk education  etc so apologies if wrong

his words say here...

Were you at school with Mick Jagger?

Yeah. He was younger than me, lower down the school, but we continued to talk to each other after I’d left. 

https://web.archive.org/web/20110613015803/https://www.jonsavage.com/compilations/godin-1/

have to ask... why would anyone lie about such a thing ?

Edited March 2, 20187 yr by mike

Mick Taylor of the Pretty Things (and early member of the Rolling Stones) recalled that he and Jagger used to visit Dave when they were in the sixth form at Dartford Grammar. Godin had left the school seven years before so he wouldn't have known Jagger at school.

The story that Ady mentions about Dave knitting is included in Keith Rylatt's Hitsville USA, and was taken from The First Time We Met The Blues, written by David Williams.

David was an early British blues enthusiast and he confirmed to Keith that Godin was 'well acquainted' with Mick, Keith and Brian of the Stones. Keith Richard also mentions Godin in his autobiography. 

As in a recent post about records that he took to the Wheel and other Northern clubs it just proves that Dave's memory was infallable. Or that he just embroidered the truth...

 

 

Yes it was Dave Williams Stuart, i missed that in the book, need to get reading!

Dave told us that he continued to run the school blues club after he left - hence meeting Jagger.

Dx

I once heard a story that the Stones turned up at the Twisted Wheel so the DJ played the entire contents of their first album, but the real versions by the real artists, the ones with talent. Don't know if it's true but it's a great story.

16 minutes ago, stevesilktulip said:

I once heard a story that the Stones turned up at the Twisted Wheel so the DJ played the entire contents of their first album, but the real versions by the real artists, the ones with talent. Don't know if it's true but it's a great story.

That's Roger Eagle who confirmed that he did indeed do that, although he also said he got on well with the Stones personally.

11 hours ago, ady croasdell said:

He certainly knew Jagger from the blues clubs around that area. An old blues collector remebers them all going to gigs together on the tube with Dave knitting!

Whos Dave Knitting

Funny:)

Ed

Dave Godin said to me that he (Godin) was having a meal in a restaurant in Paris with Marvin Gaye  when Mick Jagger asked  Dave to introduce him to Marvin, Dave told him to fuck off and do your own introductions.  

        Dave also said the reason Mick Jagger got on in life is because Micks dad was big at the BBC  

6 minutes ago, Gilly said:

Dave Godin said to me that he (Godin) was having a meal in a restaurant in Paris with Marvin Gaye  when Mick Jagger asked  Dave to introduce him to Marvin, Dave told him to fuck off and do your own introductions.  

        Dave also said the reason Mick Jagger got on in life is because Micks dad was big at the BBC  

You have told me this story Gilly but didn't want to post it, it's far better when you do mr godins accent, hilarious!!.. Thank you........Rob

I've covered this before  -relatively recently and not sure I want to  get into any great debate again. It gets to the pont where you look as if you've got some grudge against DG (which I haven't) but then again I've never been one for swallowing BS however diluted or candy-coated. I read the "school story" years ago and straight away thought it was false. I went to a grammar school and the age gap (seven years) means you are not at school together. I gave DG the benefit of being in the sixth form but even that doesn't work.  Some grammars like  the one I went to had a "third year sixth". Tha would have worked in DG's story - but it was for pupils wanting to got to Oxford/Cambridge.. DG didn't fit into this category.  Later I learned he left school at 16. So the story about meeting MJ at school is false. Unless he walked him home from primary school.

The story about discovering the blues in 1952. Personally I think this is unture. I'm not sure whether it was deliberate or not. But it obvioulsy affords some seniority in terms of "time served" among his contemporaries (ie "I was into all first"). My own view -  given DGs recollections about records on jukeboxs, etc, in a cafe he viisted - is that his introduction was probably in 1955 or 1956 (I've explained this in a recent thread). This would put him  getting into black music at about the same time as MJ and many others (even though they were much younger).  He certainly wasn't "senior" to any of the mainstream leading blues affecionados eg Korner, Barber.

The story about DG telling MJ to f*** off - First of all Jagger  didn't need any introduction to Gaye. But most importantly they had already met and were on friendly terms  prior to Marvin Gaye ever leaving the States to visit Europe - at a concert in the States where James Brown also performed. There are photos of backstage meeting between Jagger and Brown. (no introductions needed).  I don't doubt that DG may have been rude to MJ at some point (I always thought it was at  the Ready Steady Go studio) and that Marvin Gaye may have been present but if so it would have looked very bad for Godin. Let's not forget that (outside the gospel according to  DG) Mick  Jagger was a huge star and he could have had Godin banned form the studio with a snap of his finger. 

45 minutes ago, maslar said:

I've covered this before  -relatively recently and not sure I want to  get into any great debate again. It gets to the pont where you look as if you've got some grudge against DG (which I haven't) but then again I've never been one for swallowing BS however diluted or candy-coated. I read the "school story" years ago and straight away thought it was false. I went to a grammar school and the age gap (seven years) means you are not at school together. I gave DG the benefit of being in the sixth form but even that doesn't work.  Some grammars like  the one I went to had a "third year sixth". Tha would have worked in DG's story - but it was for pupils wanting to got to Oxford/Cambridge.. DG didn't fit into this category.  Later I learned he left school at 16. So the story about meeting MJ at school is false. Unless he walked him home from primary school.

The story about discovering the blues in 1952. Personally I think this is unture. I'm not sure whether it was deliberate or not. But it obvioulsy affords some seniority in terms of "time served" among his contemporaries (ie "I was into all first"). My own view -  given DGs recollections about records on jukeboxs, etc, in a cafe he viisted - is that his introduction was probably in 1955 or 1956 (I've explained this in a recent thread). This would put him  getting into black music at about the same time as MJ and many others (even though they were much younger).  He certainly wasn't "senior" to any of the mainstream leading blues affecionados eg Korner, Barber.

The story about DG telling MJ to f*** off - First of all Jagger  didn't need any introduction to Gaye. But most importantly they had already met and were on friendly terms  prior to Marvin Gaye ever leaving the States to visit Europe - at a concert in the States where James Brown also performed. There are photos of backstage meeting between Jagger and Brown. (no introductions needed).  I don't doubt that DG may have been rude to MJ at some point (I always thought it was at  the Ready Steady Go studio) and that Marvin Gaye may have been present but if so it would have looked very bad for Godin. Let's not forget that (outside the gospel according to  DG) Mick  Jagger was a huge star and he could have had Godin banned form the studio with a snap of his finger. 

You only went to a Grammar school for a year so maybe they changed it after you left. 

56 minutes ago, maslar said:

I've covered this before  -relatively recently and not sure I want to  get into any great debate again. It gets to the pont where you look as if you've got some grudge against DG (which I haven't) but then again I've never been one for swallowing BS however diluted or candy-coated. I read the "school story" years ago and straight away thought it was false. I went to a grammar school and the age gap (seven years) means you are not at school together. I gave DG the benefit of being in the sixth form but even that doesn't work.  Some grammars like  the one I went to had a "third year sixth". Tha would have worked in DG's story - but it was for pupils wanting to got to Oxford/Cambridge.. DG didn't fit into this category.  Later I learned he left school at 16. So the story about meeting MJ at school is false. Unless he walked him home from primary school.

 

 

you could (if wish) argue that

'it was at Dartford Grammar School that I met Mick Jagger and introduced him to black music'

is covered by the statement by a member above...

Dave told us that he continued to run the school blues club after he left - hence meeting Jagger.

nope?

40 minutes ago, JNixon said:

You only went to a Grammar school for a year so maybe they changed it after you left. 

You seem to have a bug up your a*** about my grammar school attendance. I'm talking about a sytem that was in operation. I didn't leave as  I explained to you the last time you tried to rubbish what  I was saying on the matter of Grammar Schools and using my own experiences - wasn't it a few years ago now.

I didn't go to a GS for only one year.  I went when it was GS. The next year it became a comprehensive, merging with the local secondary modern. You only needed to be there one year to see how everything worked. It actually kept the name "Grammar School" if you want to be really pedantic -which Im sure you don't  I hope this short diversion into my Grammar school experience has cleared up your obvious confusion. (seeing as how your post only makes sense if the reader realises you're refering to a previous conversation of about three? or is it four? years ago.

 

35 minutes ago, mike said:

 

 

you could (if wish) argue that

'it was at Dartford Grammar School that I met Mick Jagger and introduced him to black music'

is covered by the statement by a member above...

Dave told us that he continued to run the school blues club after he left - hence meeting Jagger.

nope?

Yes that could be true.  I don't believe DG introduced MJ to black music. MJ was primarilly a Little Richard fan after hearing him on the radio.  Again it's all down to dates - when was the after-school blues club started?  The problem with DG is he continually made points that just aren't true - like crediting Bob Beckwith with being the driving force behind the Stones (Blue Boys)  when he obviously wasn't. The re-writing of history to gain meaningless points scored  that aren't of any real value anyway: It casts a shadow over everything else he writes about that particular period.  To me it seems as though he attempts to paint himself as a sort of mentor to a younger crowd. I doubt they saw him as such - probably more of a contemporary who just happened to be significantly older. Just my own opinion from stuff I've read over the years. I'm always willing to be corrected. He seemed to  paint  a picture of a very exclussive, almost secretive scene when in fact the appreciation of Black American music was much more widespread.  As was that of American jazz which was closely related eg through leading figures such as Chris Barber.

Strangley as he got older (mid 20s) he seemed to move away to some extent from the more hard edged Black American music to the popier Tamla sounds. Muddy Waters and Bo Diddley are  some distance musically  from Mary Wells and the Miracles.

19 hours ago, Gilly said:

        Dave also said the reason Mick Jagger got on in life is because Micks dad was big at the BBC  

But Jagger's father was a teacher. Can't believe that he could have had much influence at the Beeb.

 

 

Edited March 5, 20187 yr by MBarrett

13 minutes ago, MBarrett said:

But Jagger's father was a teacher. Can't believe that he could have had much influence at the Beeb.

 

 

quite an interesting topic in a round about digging data way this...

the bbc rang a bell and yep there's a clip of this on youtube,

Quote

And yet it was through sport, at the age of 13, that Mick made his first television appearance with his father. The two of them were featured rock climbing in Tunbridge Wells on BBC TV's Seeing Sport. (They also demonstrated putting up a tent and cooking a meal over a campfire.)

 

as before you could argue etc etc if you wish

37 minutes ago, maslar said:

You seem to have a bug up your a*** about my grammar school attendance. I'm talking about a sytem that was in operation. I didn't leave as  I explained to you the last time you tried to rubbish what  I was saying on the matter of Grammar Schools and using my own experiences - wasn't it a few years ago now.

I didn't go to a GS for only one year.  I went when it was GS. The next year it became a comprehensive, merging with the local secondary modern. You only needed to be there one year to see how everything worked. It actually kept the name "Grammar School" if you want to be really pedantic -which Im sure you don't  I hope this short diversion into my Grammar school experience has cleared up your obvious confusion. (seeing as how your post only makes sense if the reader realises you're refering to a previous conversation of about three? or is it four? years ago.

 

Yes that could be true.  I don't believe DG introduced MJ to black music. MJ was primarilly a Little Richard fan after hearing him on the radio.  Again it's all down to dates - when was the after-school blues club started?  The problem with DG is he continually made points that just aren't true - like crediting Bob Beckwith with being the driving force behind the Stones (Blue Boys)  when he obviously wasn't. The re-writing of history to gain meaningless points scored  that aren't of any real value anyway: It casts a shadow over everything else he writes about that particular period.  To me it seems as though he attempts to paint himself as a sort of mentor to a younger crowd. I doubt they saw him as such - probably more of a contemporary who just happened to be significantly older. Just my own opinion from stuff I've read over the years. I'm always willing to be corrected. He seemed to  paint  a picture of a very exclussive, almost secretive scene when in fact the appreciation of Black American music was much more widespread.  As was that of American jazz which was closely related eg through leading figures such as Chris Barber.

Strangley as he got older (mid 20s) he seemed to move away to some extent from the more hard edged Black American music to the popier Tamla sounds. Muddy Waters and Bo Diddley are  some distance musically  from Mary Wells and the Miracles.

just amuses me that its a thing to be embellished is all. 

Dave definitely had a problem with Jagger his writing shows as much, from his loathing of The Stones cover versions to Jaggers sound alike Don Covay voice.

The rest only Dave knows the real truth and sadly he is not here to defend himself.

Even if he did overstate a few stories his columns were always entertaining and opened up new artists and sounds to eager record buyers as myself who were just finding their feet to soul music and I am grateful for that .

What I posted above is what D G said to me, if true or not is not my concern, I can say having been invited to Daves funeral it was the most interesting one I ever attended 

Pray tell.........

What happened? There wasn't a note read out from MJ was there?

Ed

What was played at the funeral ?🎶

19 minutes ago, Gilly said:

What I posted above is what D G said to me, if true or not is not my concern, I can say having been invited to Daves funeral it was the most interesting one I ever attended 

 

Don't think the Stones cover of "it's all over now" would have been appreciated.

7 minutes ago, snakepit said:

Don't think the Stones cover of "it's all over now" would have been appreciated.

Apparently not by Bobby Womack - until the royalties started rolling in 

1 hour ago, Spain pete said:

What was played at the funeral ?🎶

 

Ask Ady Croasdell, he organised it ( I was there but can't remember)

Why can't you remember?🎶

4 minutes ago, JulianB said:

Ask Ady Croasdell, he organised it ( I was there but can't remember)

 

1 hour ago, Spain pete said:

Why can't you remember?🎶

 

The mists of time!!

NICE!😂

4 hours ago, snakepit said:

Don't think the Stones cover of "it's all over now" would have been appreciated.

It was appreciated by me!

4 hours ago, Spain pete said:

What was played at the funeral ?🎶

 

I do remember a girl stood up and said "I first met Dave when he was feeding wasps"   I still ponder over that to this day 

56 minutes ago, Gilly said:

I do remember a girl stood up and said "I first met Dave when he was feeding wasps"   I still ponder over that to this day 

If only Jagger had been there.

I can just imagine a big WTF rolling out his huge gub.

Cracker Gilly.

7 hours ago, autumnstoned said:

Apparently not by Bobby Womack - until the royalties started rolling in 

From my correspondence with Dave in the early 1980s, I know this is what pissed him off more than anything - the idea that Black artists were only getting their dues after their music was exposed to the wider world by bands like the Stones, Beatles, Animals, Manfred Mann etc etc. But they did have their careers expanded and extended in a lot of cases and were aware of it too - as Muddy Waters famous 'he stole my music but he gave me my name' quote makes clear. But let's be honest the Northern scene has done pretty much the same thing for a lot of Black artists too albeit on a smaller scale - given them an audience and a recognition they might not have otherwise had.

Give credit where it's due as regards the Rolling Stones I first watched them in 1963, then 1964, then 1965 in 63 they were a young wild Rn B outfit and they were pretty good at what they did as for 64 it was more of the same but looking for their own identity by 65 66, it was becoming their own brand far removed from those early years we all know original is nearly always the best but they did their best paying homage to Chuck Berry, Arthur Alexander ' ,Solomon Burke, Valentinoes ect ,  and in some cases put their own identity on those covers, you would have to have seen them when I did to pass a true judgement but believe me they weren't bad those days and I've seen as many top acts over the last 55 years as nearly anyone

ps Give Dave Godin his dues

Give Mick Jagger and the Rest of the Rolling Stones there,s

kind Regards

ML

6 hours ago, LiamGP said:

From my correspondence with Dave in the early 1980s, I know this is what pissed him off more than anything - the idea that Black artists were only getting their dues after their music was exposed to the wider world by bands like the Stones, Beatles, Animals, Manfred Mann etc etc. But they did have their careers expanded and extended in a lot of cases and were aware of it too - as Muddy Waters famous 'he stole my music but he gave me my name' quote makes clear. But let's be honest the Northern scene has done pretty much the same thing for a lot of Black artists too albeit on a smaller scale - given them an audience and a recognition they might not have otherwise had.

My reference to "It's all over now"  ( death/Rolling Stones) was in relation to it not being appreciated at Dave's funeral, which I didn't make clear. It was a poor attempt at humour....but your point about Dave's feelings about these covers is well made.

8 hours ago, Hooker1951 said:

Give Dave Godin his dues

Give Mick Jagger and the Rest of the Rolling Stones there,s

Personally, I'll never have any respect for Sir Mick Jagger & The Rolling Stones because I hate what they represent..'Rock Royalty' and because they've inspired approximately 754,967 unbelievably bad bar bands. Nothing in the world is worse than a piss-poor cover of “Gimme Shelter.” Well nothing except the sixty bazillion 'real' bands that continue to ape the Stones’ tired and dated aesthetic.

There’s a reason no one takes Elvis impersonators seriously...

They were also horribly, horribly misogynistic. Entire dissertations have expounded on the overtly sexist, violent, and borderline psychopathic lyrics of songs like “Some Girls,” “Mother’s Little Helper,” “Brown Sugar,” and “Sticky Fingers.” Rather than offer an inclusive revolution, the Stones set back the cause, marginalizing, objectifying, and animalizing women in more creatively sick ways than pretty much anyone else in music.

Certain members of the group as individuals leave a lot to be desired in my opinion so let's not even mention Bill's 'special relationship' with Mandy Smith when she was 13 or 14 years old...

The bad news? That terrible, cliched rock template they created is very much still around.

Mick Jagger is also famous for saying “If I’m singing ‘Satisfaction’ when I’m 40, I’m going to kill myself.”

He didn't though. Maybe he actually meant 80? 

If I ever had the misfortune of meeting Mick Jagger I'd tell him to f..k off too..

Just a casual thought..

 

Edited March 6, 20187 yr by Soulsides

At Dave's funeral the theme from Gone With The Wind was played.

If I remember correctly Dave was involved with organising the humanist service and it wouldn't have surprised me if this was his idea.

 

 

 

49 minutes ago, Stuart Russell said:

At Dave's funeral the theme from Gone With The Wind was played.

If I remember correctly Dave was involved with organising the humanist service and it wouldn't have surprised me if this was his idea.

 

 

 

Yes and not the Rita & The Tiaras version! 

 

The funeral was mainly organised by his communist landlord who was an eccentric in a different way. The service was good and Dave would have had a big part in it, knowing he was dieing, but the aftermath was a mess.

15 hours ago, tomangoes said:

Pray tell.........

What happened? There wasn't a note read out from MJ was there?

Ed

No but there was one from Bessie Banks

Why would anybody want to claim they inflicted the Stones,  and particularly Jagger, on the world. They weren't a good teeny group like the beatles and weren't a proper rock group like Cream. Jagger has no national rhythm, can't sing and can't write songs.

I can't get no (any) satisfaction.

I can't get no (any) satisfaction.

But I tried, and I tried, and I tried, and I tried.

I can't get no (any).

Like a song a five year old would write, and yes I know O sang it and I would never play that either. 

Muddy said there was no reason why whitey shouldn't play blues, as long as they don't try to sing them. Sonny Boy Williamson (Rice Miller) said that those British white boys want to play the blues real bad, and they play it real bad. 

8 hours ago, Soulsides said:

Personally, I'll never have any respect for Sir Mick Jagger & The Rolling Stones because I hate what they represent..'Rock Royalty' and because they've inspired approximately 754,967 unbelievably bad bar bands. Nothing in the world is worse than a piss-poor cover of “Gimme Shelter.” Well nothing except the sixty bazillion 'real' bands that continue to ape the Stones’ tired and dated aesthetic.

There’s a reason no one takes Elvis impersonators seriously...

They were also horribly, horribly misogynistic. Entire dissertations have expounded on the overtly sexist, violent, and borderline psychopathic lyrics of songs like “Some Girls,” “Mother’s Little Helper,” “Brown Sugar,” and “Sticky Fingers.” Rather than offer an inclusive revolution, the Stones set back the cause, marginalizing, objectifying, and animalizing women in more creatively sick ways than pretty much anyone else in music.

Certain members of the group as individuals leave a lot to be desired in my opinion so let's not even mention Bill's 'special relationship' with Mandy Smith when she was 13 or 14 years old...

The bad news? That terrible, cliched rock template they created is very much still around.

Mick Jagger is also famous for saying “If I’m singing ‘Satisfaction’ when I’m 40, I’m going to kill myself.”

He didn't though. Maybe he actually meant 80? 

If I ever had the misfortune of meeting Mick Jagger I'd tell him to f..k off too..

Just a casual thought..

 

If you had read what I said carefully, I said that in 1963, 64, they were a wild RNB band and they were good at what they did even if it was mirroring the original sounds from the USA What they did then was to find their own identity. It wasn't to my likening  I give them credit even if it was for those first few years to making their own stamp and style on covers of RNB classics that brought to us the attention of the USA original artists, and they were at that time a fantastic live visual band they covered songs that were unheard to a great majority of British music and RNB lovers, And believe me Mick Jagger and Keith Richards if questioned would tell you that the original artists and tunes from the USA was better, I didn't particular like what they did later but Obviosly a lot of people did or else they wouldn't have been around the last 56 years, but if you didn't see them in 63,64 , live you can't really comment and as for telling Mick Jagger to fuck off I don't think he would give a flying fuck either with 200 £ million in the bank

Peace and Tranquility

ML

Put these talented and charismatic guys up against the original artists in 1964 there was only going to be one winner.

If it put Dave Godin's nose out of joint I'm sorry - but so be it.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, did this comment yesterday before yours but the computer got a bit scrambled. When I checked this afternoon it was still there so I just unscrambled it and sent it. It didn't  make any reference to your comments.

Were I to meet him, I wouldn't be rude to him but I wouldn't pretend his music had any merit, in 63 or at any point since.

Are we saying that everybody who's made a fortune was good? Unfortunately racism was still rife in the early sixties and was even worse in America. It's better now but we still aren't there yet. Elvis, Fabs and Stones were the acceptable face of black music.

Peace and tranquillity??? 

Sorry I think I got muxed ip there. Computers are still really not my thing.

Talented? Charismatic? The Fablon Four were charismatic; the Stones were just the naughty boy version, like Oasis to Take That.  

4 hours ago, Hooker1951 said:

If you had read what I said carefully, I said that in 1963, 64, they were a wild RNB band and they were good at what they did even if it was mirroring the original sounds from the USA .

4 hours ago, Hooker1951 said:

As for telling Mick Jagger to fuck off I don't think he would give a flying fuck either with 200 £ million in the bank

 

Oh,I did actually read what you said carefully,my apologies if it came across as otherwise and I also thought that what you wrote was a pretty cool critique as it happens.You conveyed the feeling of witnessing a band playing exciting, raw and live music up close even if they were not the originators of the songs they played.

As someone who has been a musician for 30 years and also played live shows I can totally relate to that and in fairness I reckon I'd have probably also been blown away by seeing The Rolling Stones in 1963 playing R&B but I wasn't even born then.

My criticism was levelled more at what Jagger and The Stones became to represent slightly later in their careers, all of that  pompous 'Rock royalty' nonsense ,the truly dreadful misogyny,the atrocious songs they recorded and the whole sycophantic Rock & Roll music industry circus that surrounds,indulges and often excuses the worst behaviour of these people because they're somehow conceived to be deemed worthy of a 'God' type of  status because they also,coincidentally just happen to sell millions of records and generate truck loads of cash for their respective record companies.

Edited March 6, 20187 yr by Soulsides

2 minutes ago, Soulsides said:

Oh,I did actually read what you said carefully,my apologies ifit came across as otherwise and I also thought that what you wrote was a pretty cool critique as it happens.You conveyed the feeling of witnessing a band playing raw and live music up close even if they were not the originators of the songs they played.

As someone who has been a musician for 30 years and also played live shows I can totally relate to that and in fairness I reckon I'd have probably also been blown away by seeing The Rolling Stones in 1963 playing R&B but I wasn't even born then.

My criticism was levelled more at what Jagger and The Stones became to represent slightly later in their careers, all of that  pompous 'Rock royalty' nonsense ,the truly dreadful misogyny,the atrocious songs they recorded and the whole sycophantic Rock & Roll music industry circus that surrounds,indulges and often excuses the worst behaviour of these people because they're somehow conceived to be deemed worthy of a 'God' type of  status because they also,coincidentally just happen to sell millions of records and generate truck loads of cash for their respective record companies.

Totally understand, I'm basing my respect on where they came from what their achievements came to in the fore a mentioned years and in the early 60,s so to me they deserve that respect not al the egotism that came later which effected a lot more than just the Rolling Stones and many USA artists and bands as well  you can only remember what you remember and at the time they struck a big chord with me which led me elsewhere and a lot of great music

1 hour ago, stevesilktulip said:

Sorry, did this comment yesterday before yours but the computer got a bit scrambled. When I checked this afternoon it was still there so I just unscrambled it and sent it. It didn't  make any reference to your comments.

Were I to meet him, I wouldn't be rude to him but I wouldn't pretend his music had any merit, in 63 or at any point since.

Are we saying that everybody who's made a fortune was good? Unfortunately racism was still rife in the early sixties and was even worse in America. It's better now but we still aren't there yet. Elvis, Fabs and Stones were the acceptable face of black music.

Peace and tranquillity??? 

That's your prerogative , I've maid mine, I've never mentioned anybody who made a fortune was good, got nothing to do with it all  I just told you what I saw , what I heard when it was happening and passed my opinion I was there was you ? I've DJ,d northern and RNB and promoted all over the country MC,d for all the major Dance DJ,s seen probably more top acts in all kinds of musical genres than probably any individual I know I can still do it now so I know maybe a little bit of what I'm talking about, The Rolling Stones were right for that time as regards RNB otherwise you might never have known about Alexander Arthur, Irma Franklin, Solomon Burke,  ect ect , ect Bo Didley and Chuck Berry were already established Why the ? Mark after Peace and Tranquility  if you don't understand what th means you've must have a real problem if you want to be a real Soulman open yourself up to the music and other people's opinions that's all

Peace and Tranquility if you led the life I had you would no what it meant

God Bless ML

 

 

On 3/5/2018 at 10:43, mike said:

 

 

you could (if wish) argue that

'it was at Dartford Grammar School that I met Mick Jagger and introduced him to black music'

is covered by the statement by a member above...

Dave told us that he continued to run the school blues club after he left - hence meeting Jagger.

nope?

I think we can discount this theory on the basis that in order to join / attend the school blues club (if this even existed) then Mick must have already been interested in black music. He can't therefore have been 'introduced' to black music by Dave after joining....

Thanks for all the replies by the way. Very interesting and amusing thread. 

 

 

On 3/2/2018 at 18:18, stevesilktulip said:

I once heard a story that the Stones turned up at the Twisted Wheel so the DJ played the entire contents of their first album, but the real versions by the real artists, the ones with talent. Don't know if it's true but it's a great story.

I know quite a few people who knew Roger Eagle. I can't remember if I was told or have read that this story about him playing the original records is true but that it was actually intended as a salute / welcoming gesture to the Stones, not as a diss or to make a point about the original artists being better (which I'm sure they would agree with anyway).

 

 

 

 

You said something about Jaggers millions!!!

If something -music, book, film - is only relevant at a particular time, it can't have been very good. I listen to music from the 20s and 30s which still sounds relevant today, (I read books from even further back).

I doubt very much if you've seen more live acts than me, and certainly not across genres, though I don't watch pop/rock/and roll. This despite you being a good bit older, something I'm not actually sad about I have to say.

Fabs, Stones, Van, Who, Kinks, Rod, Elton, Bowie etc etc etc have all been forthright in acknowledging their influences and I'm not necessarily blaming them. It's the media who've turned all these black artists into the people, without whom, we'd never have had the Beatles and the Stones, like that's what they were for.

Peace and tranquility, I think perhaps you have anger management issues.