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Lisa Stansfield 8-3-1 how much ?


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Drizabone Soulutions Benjamin and the Dreamcatchers to name a few which have genuine appeal even to the more selective ear, plus all the great 45s from Hayley Hit and Run Kent Diggin Deep MD records e

I think you will find it is the so called soul police who say play it from the cd.  Those who bang on about OVO usually in my experience are a bit clueless and have some sort of agenda. We managed for

Of all the great northern available to the scene, some have to resort to playing a piece of crappy pop music.  And people slag mid 70s Wigan off?

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Posted
2 hours ago, Steviehay said:

Steve. It should be no more than £20 .  I've seen it for sale for a lot more than that.  Three figure's.  Its a joke . Even on here but I haven't said anything out of respect for Mike and the unwritten law of commenting on people's sales. They tend to remain unsold when they are asking stupid money and they keep relisting. 

No doubt sellers will say its supply and demand.  Its not . Its a rip off. We all know how much they are really worth.  Dont buy , simple 

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14 hours ago, Winsford Soul said:

Steve. It should be no more than £20 .  I've seen it for sale for a lot more than that.  Three figure's.  Its a joke . Even on here but I haven't said anything out of respect for Mike and the unwritten law of commenting on people's sales. They tend to remain unsold when they are asking stupid money and they keep relisting. 

No doubt sellers will say its supply and demand.  Its not . Its a rip off. We all know how much they are really worth.  Dont buy , simple 

Never considered this before, but I wonder how many international buyers, who may be relatively new to the music, don't have English as their first language and just lack info on what is a sensible price.  I probably paid over the odds, no idea by how much, as no idea what I paid then, in my early days buying at Wigan.  The simple fact is there are more people who are able to pay over the odds now, in all price ranges.

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15 hours ago, Winsford Soul said:

Steve. It should be no more than £20 .  I've seen it for sale for a lot more than that.  Three figure's.  Its a joke . Even on here but I haven't said anything out of respect for Mike and the unwritten law of commenting on people's sales. They tend to remain unsold when they are asking stupid money and they keep relisting. 

No doubt sellers will say its supply and demand.  Its not . Its a rip off. We all know how much they are really worth.  Dont buy , simple 

I would be quite happy to see people speaking out against silly high prices it would remove some of the chancers and help people to learn true values.

 

like you I keep quiet but it can be frustrating at times.

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4 hours ago, Dylan said:

I would be quite happy to see people speaking out against silly high prices it would remove some of the chancers and help people to learn true values.

 

like you I keep quiet but it can be frustrating at times.

When I was modding the sales section I think the rule was you didn't post comments on the actual ad.

Nothing to stop you commenting elsewhere on prices as long as it didn't descend into personal attacks on the seller.

Mike can probably clarify.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Modernsoulsucks said:

When I was modding the sales section I think the rule was you didn't post comments on the actual ad.

Nothing to stop you commenting elsewhere on prices as long as it didn't descend into personal attacks on the seller.

Mike can probably clarify.

Yes I get what you are saying but it would be quite obvious starting a new discussion thread on value within a day of a sales thread starting.

 

Must be a tough job being a mod.

Edited by Dylan
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1 minute ago, Dylan said:

Yes I get what you are saying but it would be quite obvious starting a new discussion thread on value within a day of a sales thread starting.

 

 

I sell on here.

If you were to query my prices I wouldn't mind. Yes, it would be obvious to some that my ad led to the discussion but then don't we already see that in say eBay listings or JM's auction.

As long as you didn't say Rod is a rip-off POS I think that's OK.

Present the evidence and leave it up to the members to come up with their own conclusions ?

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Posted (edited)

i was not knocking the sellers just the stupid side which was obvious a carver and an original !!

Edited by Steviehay
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Bidding ended at 2pm £88 - 20 bids ... AND seller has relisted another one.  'Born every minute ... there is one'!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lisa-Stansfield-eight-three-one-New-7-Northern-soul/174514513710?hash=item28a1e0272e:g:J1cAAOSwB4Zfodhw

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At the risk of creating a 'discussion' 🙂 what's the obsession of having it on vinyl? ... was the SonicWax vinyl release 'official'???

The 'original' release was a CD single that you can easily pick up for less than a tenner 

https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/563487?ev=rb

... or 'Face Up' album ... also only released on CD which you can get for less than a fiver!

https://www.discogs.com/Lisa-Stansfield-Face-Up/release/1250570

I know, I know ... it's so 'I can play it out' ... but what's the bigger sin ... playing it off an 'original' CD or off a bootlegged carver?

....I'll get my coat!

 

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9 minutes ago, Soulstrutter said:

At the risk of creating a 'discussion' 🙂 what's the obsession of having it on vinyl? ... was the SonicWax vinyl release 'official'???

The 'original' release was a CD single that you can easily pick up for less than a tenner 

https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/563487?ev=rb

... or 'Face Up' album ... also only released on CD which you can get for less than a fiver!

https://www.discogs.com/Lisa-Stansfield-Face-Up/release/1250570

I know, I know ... it's so 'I can play it out' ... but what's the bigger sin ... playing it off an 'original' CD or off a bootlegged carver?

....I'll get my coat!

 

I was given the promo lp cd of this i also have the legal sonic wax issue but my question was how daft is it that 2 copies were up for sale one a carver the other original 

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10 minutes ago, Soulstrutter said:

At the risk of creating a 'discussion' 🙂 what's the obsession of having it on vinyl? ... was the SonicWax vinyl release 'official'???

The 'original' release was a CD single that you can easily pick up for less than a tenner 

https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/563487?ev=rb

... or 'Face Up' album ... also only released on CD which you can get for less than a fiver!

https://www.discogs.com/Lisa-Stansfield-Face-Up/release/1250570

I know, I know ... it's so 'I can play it out' ... but what's the bigger sin ... playing it off an 'original' CD or off a bootlegged carver?

....I'll get my coat!

 

If I was the promoter you wouldn’t be playing it off the sonic wax boot. It’d be cd only or not at all.

not specifically this track but the obsession with vinyl irrespective if its legit or not over the original  cd is pathetic. Corey Glover another example. 

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"If I was the promoter you wouldn’t be playing it off the sonic wax boot"

Quote

 

Well if i was the promoter i would not be booking anyone who would play such a pile of poo-certainly not one of our greatest musical moments on the scene is it!! maybe its me who is getting old and grumpy but instead of playing any multitude of great underplayed soul records we have to listen to lisa stansfield at a soul do!!! oh dear,,, 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Steviehay said:

I was given the promo lp cd of this i also have the legal sonic wax issue but my question was how daft is it that 2 copies were up for sale one a carver the other original 

Yeah  I get that .... but my question (and yours was) ... a/ why pay more for a carver than you could 'potentially' get an 'original' for (assuming Sonic Wax one is legit? even if it is it's not strictly an original it's a reissue on vinyl) b/ why buy a vinyl bootleg which you can't/shouldn't play out when  you could get the genuine original on CD for less than £10  ... it's madness!

To make matters worse the carver isn't even a one-off as seller has automatically relisted another ... and presumably another followed by another.....  I don't know (or care) who the seller is and they have stated clearly in the listing what it is ... (not that that makes it right as its a bootleg of an active mainstream artist on a major label so could end up in all sorts of deep brown stuff!) ... I don't understand the people who bid on it knowing that it's a bootleg and paying ridiculous price for it when it is freely available on CD.

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Posted (edited)

I don't get the original CD argument as we are an original vinyl based scene.A lot of the unissued Motown first came out on the connisseur / collectable CDs long before the came out on vinyl in the box sets. Should none of these be played out?

Edited by Tobytyke
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Of course, you could just buy one of the many good Lisa Stansfield tracks out there..............

 

Cheers,

Mark R

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Posted
1 hour ago, Tobytyke said:

I don't get the original CD argument as we are an original vinyl based scene.A lot of the unissued Motown first came out on the connisseur / collectable CDs long before the came out on vinyl in the box sets. Should none of these be played out?

Hi,  I understand the OVO argument for playing out and don't want to get into that.  But are you saying that we should never buy CDs for our own personal delight??  It is had to believe everyone buying vinyl, is doing so because they are budding DJs.  I respect their decision to buy vinyl but as Soulstrutter says surely a much cheaper CD is the better option over a carver, as at least the royalties may end up in the correct pockets?

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So the 'Soul Police' state that you can't play an original from CD? It 'must' be on vinyl only (OVO) even though it was never originally released on vinyl which then 'encourages' (let us say less than scrupulous) people to press it on vinyl to 'satisfy demand' at much higher prices than the original and others to buy the 'pressing' as it is the only way to obtain it on vinyl to conform the the SP rules?
I don't know whether or not the SonicWax pressing is legal (even if it is it's hardly 'original' as it was released 9 years later - surely a reissue at best ... how was there demand for it if it could never have been played as it was CD only until this release ... do you see the hypocisy?) Let's 'assume' for a moment that it isn't legal, so someone else then bootlegs a bootleg and profits from it!  The original artist, composers and record company receive nothing and that is somehow acceptable?  Just shows the double standards.
I guess at some time we have all bought bootlegs knowingly or unknowingly - they were freely available at all nighters in the 70s at £1.25 a pop ... but we were teenagers then being exploited and we should know better by now!
I take Soulman58's point ... but royalties don't get paid on the resale market ... but at least you are buying an original product which royalties would have been paid on when first purchased rather than lining bootleggers pockets.
Chalky makes a good point re: Corey Glover and many others which were never released on vinyl and what about new releases available only via digital download or very limited edition vinyl 7s - which suits this 'scene' as they appreciate in value overnight and I know of some who buy only to sell on for a profit as they know there will be a demand when the 1st run sells out!. (e.g. Benjamin & Right Direction and many others on these neo soul labels).  The 'scene' is being exploited by those who see it as easy to profit from ... but only if there are those who are prepared to buy their products ... think about it!

Here's the sales pitch (hyperbole) posted on SS when it was first released:

"BIGGEST MODERN SOUL DANCER EVER !!!!!.Available On A 45 For The First Time Tjis Cd Spin Has Been Packing Dancefloors For 15 Years,A Real Hands In The Air ANTHEM"
Really 15 years? ... it had only been originally released 9 year before ... and suggests that it was originally played from CD!  ... I rest my case!

 

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Now that I know that it's a (checks notes) "Real Hands in the Air Anthem", 88 quid for a carver sounds like a complete bargain...

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Posted (edited)

I think you will find it is the so called soul police who say play it from the cd.  Those who bang on about OVO usually in my experience are a bit clueless and have some sort of agenda. We managed for decades without the term and it seems to be the new breed of johnny come lately Djs and promoters who bang on about the term. 

Edited by Chalky
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On 18/11/2020 at 19:45, Angus said:

"If I was the promoter you wouldn’t be playing it off the sonic wax boot"

Well if i was the promoter i would not be booking anyone who would play such a pile of poo-certainly not one of our greatest musical moments on the scene is it!! maybe its me who is getting old and grumpy but instead of playing any multitude of great underplayed soul records we have to listen to lisa stansfield at a soul do!!! oh dear,,, 

Well she is from Rochdale 

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With something like thirty plus years of incredible soul music only available on CD it does seem rather sad that this track could somehow get elevated to the status that some choose to give it,  as tracks go that first came on a CD I personaly would not give it a top two thousand place , as a soul record fast or slow not even in the top five thousand. It would be really interesting to know roughly how many soul souce members purchased CD's and in what format ie compilations of northern or modern 10% maybe?, new material from it's release date 2% maybe ?. The point i'm getting at is this really does seem to be a lot to do about a nothing record in the first place. If folks want to argue the toss about the merits of how you play this thing to an audience then so be it, however I personaly believe their appreciation of quality soul would be better served by taking a listen to all the wonderfull CD cuts they choosed to avoid or ignore, but maybe it has a lot to do with not being able to impress others with their latest purchase🥱.I still hate them🙂.

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9 hours ago, Still Diggin said:

With something like thirty plus years of incredible soul music only available on CD it does seem rather sad that this track could somehow get elevated to the status that some choose to give it,  as tracks go that first came on a CD I personaly would not give it a top two thousand place , as a soul record fast or slow not even in the top five thousand. It would be really interesting to know roughly how many soul souce members purchased CD's and in what format ie compilations of northern or modern 10% maybe?, new material from it's release date 2% maybe ?. The point i'm getting at is this really does seem to be a lot to do about a nothing record in the first place. If folks want to argue the toss about the merits of how you play this thing to an audience then so be it, however I personaly believe their appreciation of quality soul would be better served by taking a listen to all the wonderfull CD cuts they choosed to avoid or ignore, but maybe it has a lot to do with not being able to impress others with their latest purchase🥱.I still hate them🙂.

Amen to every word you say regarding cds , I also don’t like them but as you say the tracks that have been overlooked is a pretty sad affair when you consider the Calibre of artist that were still recording quality songs and still had great vocal prowess that were ignored is a loss to the scene , I started a thread ‘cd only tracks that you love ‘ to see if others felt the same , I was talking original cd recordings not ‘unissued releases ‘ . 

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I had a Lisa for sale belonging to mate earlier this year ,rightly or wrongly at the time going price was around £50, the week he gave me some records to sell one was sold on ebay for I think £148 if memory serves. Out of respect I told him even though I thought it a ridiculous price, I held on to it eventually selling it on to another mate for I think £70, may have been £60 ,that could have been his initial offer. Both parties were happy with the deal.

   If the Lisa has people steamed up he also had a Sonic Wax Tribute that I was surprised to see was offered on Discogs for £50, I told him it was likely he had no chance of achieving that price, it is still in the back of my box, I've never had the nerve to offer it for sale, imagine my surprise to see one on ebay last week offered "buy it now "at £100. Last I looked it was surprise surprise still there. I'm well aware it's probably the ultimate Marmite record on the scene but if you think you couldn't make a bad record worse let me assure you you can.

     Before anyone questions my mates taste due to the two above the records they were bought on behalf of his wife, amongst the others he wanted to sell were Angel Baby Darrell Banks on Red Atlantic and Major Lance Ain't No Soul on British Colombia.

     The one thing that pleases me about ebay at the moment and there isn't much is apparently in what I thought was a pretty ordinary collection I have plenty of "original" "in demand", "rare" ,"mega rare",  "under the radar" Northern records which despite their rarity are under a tenner, who knew? 

  

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Posted (edited)

Of all the great northern available to the scene, some have to resort to playing a piece of crappy pop music.  And people slag mid 70s Wigan off?

Edited by Chalky
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Posted

Drizabone Soulutions Benjamin and the Dreamcatchers to name a few which have genuine appeal even to the more selective ear, plus all the great 45s from Hayley Hit and Run Kent Diggin Deep MD records etc and the scene stoops this low ? 


It’s a scene within a scene spin flat cap drinkers with wide trousers draining the scene off its last drops of respectability . 

At least in the seventies the pop stuff was mainly squeezed out by late 78 , but a carver of a terrible record imho brings a new level of embarrassment it saddens me that people coming to the scene think this is the way forward ? 
 

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10 hours ago, Chalky said:

Of all the great northern available to the scene, some have to resort to playing a piece of crappy pop music.  And people slag mid 70s Wigan off?

Joe 90 or muriel ??

5 hours ago, Baz Atkinson said:

Drizabone Soulutions Benjamin and the Dreamcatchers to name a few which have genuine appeal even to the more selective ear, plus all the great 45s from Hayley Hit and Run Kent Diggin Deep MD records etc and the scene stoops this low ? 


It’s a scene within a scene spin flat cap drinkers with wide trousers draining the scene off its last drops of respectability . 

At least in the seventies the pop stuff was mainly squeezed out by late 78 , but a carver of a terrible record imho brings a new level of embarrassment it saddens me that people coming to the scene think this is the way forward ? 
 

Totally in agreement with ypu baz which is why I stated in the first place ..thank you a decent reply to my question 

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On 20/11/2020 at 20:20, Baz Atkinson said:

At least in the seventies the pop stuff was mainly squeezed out by late 78 , 
 

You' have liked to thinks so .... but here's a scan of Black Echoes 24th March 1979 ... and Russ was still up to his old tricks (I think I'd stopped going by then)  - what appals me most is that nearly half of his 'so-called' top 20 were the latest Casino Classic releases of which all were white pop records and out of the 20 there are only 2 (maybe 3) that I would call soul records!  That would be nearly a whole hour listening to sh*te! I think the list has more to do with plugging the latest Casino Classics releases than reality of what was popular at that time as if he'd played a set of this sh*te he would (or should) have been lynched!

01/ Casino Classics white pop
02/ Casino Classics white pop
03/ Casino Classics white pop
04/ Casino Classics white pop
05/ Casino Classics white pop
06/ white pop
07/ Casino Classic white pop
08/ Casino Classic white pop
09/ cover up?
10/ mediocre soul record
11/ never heard it or of it ... must be a cover up?
12/ white pop
13/ Dutch Robinson cover up - the only soul record
14/ UK Mercury pop
15/ Destiny instrumental
16/ Poppy soul record
17/ OK live cover of Billy Butler
18/ another blue-eye 'monster'! compared to the rest of list sounds ok but had this in a soul pack long before 1979 and never thought it was good enough to play!
19/ don't recall or know this and can find no trace so suspect it's a cover up?
20/ More white pop!

1979-03-24 Stomping Ground.jpg

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Posted
1 hour ago, Steviehay said:

What makes me chuckle is the wording at the bottom i only ever danced to one of these and that was evil 

For me, the other side of Posse - 'Are You Ready' is a better track. Posse were a Detroit group managed by Eddie Kendricks who co-wrote the song with Mike Stokes - who's finest hour was writing Creative Source - Don't Be Afraid - now that's a record that should be reactivated! - only got a 45 release in UK - US album only.

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2 hours ago, Soulstrutter said:

You' have liked to thinks so .... but here's a scan of Black Echoes 24th March 1979 ... and Russ was still up to his old tricks (I think I'd stopped going by then)  - what appals me most is that nearly half of his 'so-called' top 20 were the latest Casino Classic releases of which all were white pop records and out of the 20 there are only 2 (maybe 3) that I would call soul records!  That would be nearly a whole hour listening to sh*te! I think the list has more to do with plugging the latest Casino Classics releases than reality of what was popular at that time as if he'd played a set of this sh*te he would (or should) have been lynched!

01/ Casino Classics white pop
02/ Casino Classics white pop
03/ Casino Classics white pop
04/ Casino Classics white pop
05/ Casino Classics white pop
06/ white pop
07/ Casino Classic white pop
08/ Casino Classic white pop
09/ cover up?
10/ mediocre soul record
11/ never heard it or of it ... must be a cover up?
12/ white pop
13/ Dutch Robinson cover up - the only soul record
14/ UK Mercury pop
15/ Destiny instrumental
16/ Poppy soul record
17/ OK live cover of Billy Butler
18/ another blue-eye 'monster'! compared to the rest of list sounds ok but had this in a soul pack long before 1979 and never thought it was good enough to play!
19/ don't recall or know this and can find no trace so suspect it's a cover up?
20/ More white pop!

1979-03-24 Stomping Ground.jpg

lol 😂 yep I never included the first 1 and a half hours your right about Eddie Kendrick’s  ie Dutch Robinson , that was a scene within a scene ie Winstanley World and his wanky record stall . 

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Posted
7 hours ago, Soulstrutter said:

You' have liked to thinks so .... but here's a scan of Black Echoes 24th March 1979 ... and Russ was still up to his old tricks (I think I'd stopped going by then)  - what appals me most is that nearly half of his 'so-called' top 20 were the latest Casino Classic releases of which all were white pop records and out of the 20 there are only 2 (maybe 3) that I would call soul records!  That would be nearly a whole hour listening to sh*te! I think the list has more to do with plugging the latest Casino Classics releases than reality of what was popular at that time as if he'd played a set of this sh*te he would (or should) have been lynched!

01/ Casino Classics white pop
02/ Casino Classics white pop
03/ Casino Classics white pop
04/ Casino Classics white pop
05/ Casino Classics white pop
06/ white pop
07/ Casino Classic white pop
08/ Casino Classic white pop
09/ cover up?
10/ mediocre soul record
11/ never heard it or of it ... must be a cover up?
12/ white pop
13/ Dutch Robinson cover up - the only soul record
14/ UK Mercury pop
15/ Destiny instrumental
16/ Poppy soul record
17/ OK live cover of Billy Butler
18/ another blue-eye 'monster'! compared to the rest of list sounds ok but had this in a soul pack long before 1979 and never thought it was good enough to play!
19/ don't recall or know this and can find no trace so suspect it's a cover up?
20/ More white pop!

1979-03-24 Stomping Ground.jpg

9. Michelles is Dee De Barnes on Arctic. Best record on the list.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Godzilla said:

9. Michelles is Dee De Barnes on Arctic. Best record on the list.

Thanks for that ... agree best on list (which isn't hard is it 🙂 ) and a stormer - seems to be white promo only and her only release?

Any idea about 19 - Flyers - Sky High or 11 Judy Church - That Beatin' Rhythm ... sounds like it could be a horrible (white?) cover of Richard Temple by Charlotte's mother 🤣?

Edited by Soulstrutter
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As a footnote and to add injury to insult the seller of the carver which went for £83 has another one up today with 13 bids currently at £ 53 ...i give up ...

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On 22/11/2020 at 18:54, Soulstrutter said:

Thanks for that ... agree best on list (which isn't hard is it 🙂 ) and a stormer - seems to be white promo only and her only release?

Any idea about 19 - Flyers - Sky High or 11 Judy Church - That Beatin' Rhythm ... sounds like it could be a horrible (white?) cover of Richard Temple by Charlotte's mother 🤣?

 
 

there's couple of topics regarding 'judy church'

one leads to this one...

 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Mike ... it isn't nearly as bad as expected! ... especially for a Nottingham lass according to Kev R  ('Carolyn Willis'??? ) ..  Manship posted it on his YT Channel a couple of years ago - as others stated in thread the sound is p*** poor unless it's just JM's recording!- the flip is the instrumental. .. That just leaves Flyers - Sky High to uncover!

 

Edited by Soulstrutter
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On 25/11/2020 at 11:28, Steviehay said:

As a footnote and to add injury to insult the seller of the carver which went for £83 has another one up today with 13 bids currently at £ 53 ...i give up ...

That'll be at least the 3rd then ... as seller relisted one right after the last one sold. How many more were sold before you discovered it? 🤨

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15 hours ago, Soulstrutter said:

That'll be at least the 3rd then ... as seller relisted one right after the last one sold. How many more were sold before you discovered it? 🤨

Looking at his feedback there will be another for certain, £92 was the highest price he's achieved so far for Lisa. In the past month alone he's sold five Cliff Nobles, four Turley Richards,  plus two Barbara Coopers. Always from his own collection of course. I guess whilst people keep buying them he'll keep selling them, he was at one time selling Lillie Bryant as well. 

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32 minutes ago, Twoshoes said:

Looking at his feedback there will be another for certain, £92 was the highest price he's achieved so far for Lisa. In the past month alone he's sold five Cliff Nobles, four Turley Richards,  plus two Barbara Coopers. Always from his own collection of course. I guess whilst people keep buying them he'll keep selling them, he was at one time selling Lillie Bryant as well. 

I hope buyers are not djs i use god forbid

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