I see a copy of Frank Wilson is being auctioned soon by John Manship , is this Kenny's copy ? Wonder what it will reach ? Best,Eddie

Is it true that only 2 copies exsist Sure I read in record collecter about 4 years ago that 2 guys lookin for hip hop in a Chicargo record store found a copy of Franck Wilson for just a few dollars Was that true?

Urban myth!

If it were Ian Levine playing the kind of mind games that John Manship is playing at the moment

then he would be crucified for it ...

Edited February 8, 200916 yr by sunnysoul

If it were Ian Levine playing the kind of mind games that John Manship is playing at the moment

then he would be crucified for it ...

John playing mindgames? Eh?

All he has said is that it's coming up for auction - it's us lot on here that have been speculating about a mythical 3rd copy, boxfulls waiting in an attic, some old record shop man in in LA once says he has one,etc etc.

Still a two copy record and still the ultimate item for those that collect Motown.

Was hoping this didn't get trawled up but now it has I can confirm there is a copy in the hands of a London area Motown collector but pretty sure it's NOT the copy John is planning to auction.

Have actually seen/held the copy & it's in near mint condition as well or it was in 2000 when I saw it.

Guy who owns it don't have anything to do with the Northern/Rare Soul scene & he don't go waving it around saying look what I've got.

Not going to say who he is as was asked not to by the owner so don't waste your time asking me as I'm keeping stum.

how about.....the famous wimbledon taxi driver,long time detroit/motown collector tom cre??????,he has nowt to do with this scene....wouldn't rule him out,legend has it he has just about everything from detroit or detroit related soul from the 60's/70's massive collection,probably a few total unknowns as well.

Mmmm . Do I detect the slightest frisson of doubt from the previously bombastic tone of yesterday I ask myself? It's 10.00am Sunday morning and no doubt someone's managed to track Kenny down but the thread's not exactly full of "I spoke To Kenny last night and he definitively confirmed that he will in fact be cremated and Frank Wilson will not be going in the coffin with him" etc, etc.....

Damn. I was relying on that quick grand to upgrade to a luxury chalet and scour the cathouses of Prestatyn........

Ian D

Just out of bed and recovering from last nites allniter antics and long conversions with various long standing record dealers buyers djs etc,and not the slightest doubt what so ever ian.You will be most welcome to call in to my luxury chalet[ ]to drop of my winnings at prestatyn,the brew or something stronger to soften the blow is on me .

STUBLICITY PUNT

Just to enlighten everyone

Tim Brown no longer has a copy

He sold it to a London collecter a few months ago

I know for how much but i wont breach Tims privacy

If he wants to tell thats up to him

So there you have it

2 COPIES ONLY!

John can i bid £14 and a first edition of the sunday sport

My teashirt XL on a good day

Just to enlighten everyone

Tim Brown no longer has a copy

He sold it to a London collecter a few months ago

I know for how much but i wont breach Tims privacy

If he wants to tell thats up to him

So there you have it

2 COPIES ONLY!

John can i bid £14 and a first edition of the sunday sport

My teashirt XL on a good day

I think johns played a blinder .

Edited February 8, 200916 yr by Soultown andy

Not seen it

but tim confirms it is initialed by Norman Whitfield as ok

Cant wait till john puts the scan up

John can i withdraw my earlier bid. I dont buy records with writing on

Edited February 8, 200916 yr by CheltSoulNights

I know them both myself ian and i dont deal in chump change, still not biteing thou if theres one being sold by john its kennys .

Andy,

Having seen your collection, Would you not be having a go at the FW to go with yr other rare stuff?? or even in yr play box

Rick

Edited February 8, 200916 yr by Scarborosoul

Intrigued to hear that the mix may be different on these original copies - like (I would guess) most on here I have the UK issue - which sounds great to me!

Anyone know if the different mixes have appeared anywhere else - eg CD releases, or bootlegs of the originals? Or is this just another urban myth?

john ia a wiley old fox,the more hype and confussion the better.Wonder if anyone will bid it up? lol

Andy,

Having seen your collection, Would you not be having a go at the FW to go in yr collection??

Rick

Not for me rick i couldnt justify spending that amount of money on one record,would be nice thou .I will have to wait till some of these mythical other copies emerge,maybe ian will tip me the nod to get one cheap .

Intrigued to hear that the mix may be different on these original copies - like (I would guess) most on here I have the UK issue - which sounds great to me!

Anyone know if the different mixes have appeared anywhere else - eg CD releases, or bootlegs of the originals? Or is this just another urban myth?

Another take of Frank Wilson "Do I Love You" can be found here!

Nice Piano!

Sean

Intrigued to hear that the mix may be different on these original copies - like (I would guess) most on here I have the UK issue - which sounds great to me!

Anyone know if the different mixes have appeared anywhere else - eg CD releases, or bootlegs of the originals? Or is this just another urban myth?

Theres already at least 3 mixes out there - the original, the UK issue and the CD issue - and theres an instrumental version too

I spoke to Kenny last night, but as it was a private conversation, i'm not telling

gogs

Another take of Frank Wilson "Do I Love You" can be found here!

Nice Piano!

Sean

Thats awful...piano apart (which is very good)...PWL mix-a-like!

Edited February 8, 200916 yr by Guest

I spoke to Kenny last night, but as it was a private conversation, i'm not telling

gogs

gogs is a teaser na na na na na,!!!!

malc,i only posted this "dodgy duet" up for a laugh cobbled together supposedly by my old mate tony warot from bedford a few years ago and was played at some all-nighters at the time,i cannot get the clip to play ????,it is my first attempt at posting a record clip on here,

Another take of Frank Wilson "Do I Love You" can be found here!

Nice Piano!

Sean

two more versions via youtube,

bobby wayne,

dean parrish, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AbMhIhp4bM

(imo),me ears are bleeding,

Intrigued to hear that the mix may be different on these original copies - like (I would guess) most on here I have the UK issue - which sounds great to me!

Anyone know if the different mixes have appeared anywhere else - eg CD releases, or bootlegs of the originals? Or is this just another urban myth?

there's an alternative studio take complete with 1,2,3 intro etc on here in refosoul that I posted some time ago. Someone said it might be the take used on the cd release, I've not compared 'em so couldn't tell you to be honest.

Edited February 8, 200916 yr by chalky

If I was the richest man in the world rather than the 802,426,137th I'd buy this thing, play it until I sick to the eardrums with it, then give it to Frank, let him do what the heck he wants with it...

Then again, if I was the richest man in the world I'd probably be a right cucking funt...

I take it condition won't be a factor then?

With the best will in the world, Kenny must have played it a few hundred times on a variety of different decks so what condition does everone think it will be in? And will that be a factor or will the auction winner be buying it for it's historical value alone?

Ian D

I'm guessing that anyone who buys this will be able to afford a laser vinyl player.

I spoke to Kenny last night, but as it was a private conversation, i'm not telling

gogs

I rang both Kenny and Tim last night, neither knew who the hell I was and promptly put the phone down on me.

Think I'll try John and Berry tonight, phone rate to the US is cheaper after 6.00 pm Sunday.

I rang both Kenny and Tim last night, neither knew who the hell I was and promptly put the phone down on me.

Think I'll try John and Berry tonight, phone rate to the US is cheaper after 6.00 pm Sunday.

Huh?

Who said that?

Sean

Does anyone know how many copies of FW has been released??

i.e.:

Original - 2?

Uk Original release - ?

UK re-issue - ?

etc..

etc..

Boots - ?

Just a thought.

P

This statement is categorically not true.

Tim still has his copy, as I saw and touched it only last week whilst having a cup of tea with him at his house!!!

Tim text me last night with that info

The text clearly stated he had sold it, the price and location

call him

This statement is categorically not true.

Tim still has his copy, as I saw and touched it only last week whilst having a cup of tea with him at his house!!!

Well that would've been difficult 'cos Tim's been in Florida for the last 10 days LOL....!

Ian D

Tim text me last night with that info

The text clearly stated he had sold it, the price and location

call him

Must be a different Tim then! The Tim Brown I know has an aversion to all things technical and wouldn't know how to text to save his life. Besides, he's been in Florida for the last 10 days and I doubt he even has his mobile with him.......

Ian D

Interesting to note, that around time the record passed from Les M, to Kev R, to Jonathan W, back to Kev R, they all worked in Nottingham city centre, in fact the premise where Robs (Smith) record mart is now. (ok, JW might be the exception, but he was nearby!

Dave,

I just remembered the guy who sat next to me at school, his sister had one...or was it Jackie Wilson, no it was definitely Frank.

I knew "Pops" real well, sad to hear that he's passed, i visited "Pops" regular over many many years, he never had Frank Wilson...why the hell would he? this thread is now getting ridiculous.

Everyone seems to be forgetting there are several rare 45s on Motown group of labels as rare and rarer than Frank Wilson 45.

Mary Wells - Motown 1061 (they made the picture sleeve for that one, and is considered the rarest picture sleeve in the world))

Isley Brothers - VIP

Patrice Holloway - VIP

Chris Clark on VIP

Earl Van Dyke on Soul 35009 to name but a few Motown related real rare uns...and there are more.

The fact remains since 1965 there has been 2 copies known to this scene and one of them is damaged.

Every record, just like a human being has a unique start to life and a unique finish; some are common, some are inexplicably rare, everyone on this thread can theorize all they like i don't know for sure why it's rare and I don't think anyone else does. Frank Wilson would be the best and possibly the only man to ask to get somewhere near the truth...

One thought to leave you with, the Motown powers had just told one of the finest ever Motown vocalists, Eddie Holland "no more records for you Eddie just writing and producing for you from now on." Why would they release a 45 by Frank Wilson a relatively new man to the fold and a writer/producer as well. That would be upsetting a happy ship (wouldn't it?) then if it went out and had a hit! Needless to say Eddie was a very important part of the Motown team.

Whatever the reason, the 45 is a continuously validated serious rarity of the highest stature. And yes there'll be a truck load of people who'll say i had one my mate had one, i know someone who knew someone who had one, just like the thread on the Len Barry - It's That Time Of The Year - LP.

No offense Dave, I'm sure you were taking the "myth" a bit, but some could "myth" the point.

john

Hi John

Your right, it is a very rare record and as I said 'Just to add the the urban myth'. All this chatter, is good PR for the eventual sale and I thought I'd add a few versions of the many stories that have circulated over the years.

Anyway, hows business generally.

Dave

Not seen it

but tim confirms it is initialed by Norman Whitfield as ok

Cant wait till john puts the scan up

John can i withdraw my earlier bid. I dont buy records with writing on

J.M said he scanned kennys ... why not Tims then?? i dont get it... unless they are all in on the 'prank'?.. or would Tims warp show up so it would be visible whos copy was up for sale?.. No because John said the one for sale was mint... intriguing... of course we may never get to know if one sells or who buys it!.. the winner may want to keep his/her annonimity too.. therefore you could get away with saying.. 'no one won the bid so I have bought it for the reserve'.. without it ever swopping hands... ahhhhhhhh plot thickens... if Im making sense.. ha

Edited February 8, 200916 yr by familytree

Interesting to note, that around time the record passed from Les M, to Kev R, to Jonathan W, back to Kev R, they all worked in Nottingham city centre, in fact the premise where Robs (Smith) record mart is now. (ok, JW might be the exception, but he was nearby!

And I photocopied it in the secretariat department of Mapperley Hospital. Someone mentioned it being initialled "OK" by Norm W? Jonathans was definitely marked in such a way - I wonder who spilt the coffee on it? does that make it more valuable than one without?

RB

Just another thought... it cant be hard to fake a copy in this day and age and make it look authentic surely... for the prices being banged about on here and in Manships book its gotta be tempting... Im an artist I may have a bash!

When the tee shirts on sale!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!better hurry up before the myth explodes,cash in now John.....

Just another thought... it cant be hard to fake a copy in this day and age and make it look authentic surely... for the prices being banged about on here and in Manships book its gotta be tempting... Im an artist I may have a bash!

LOL, it'd never happen Family Tree. Too many super-sleuths on here plus the whole label-printing world and vinyl manufacturing has changed massively since the mid 60's and it would be impossible to replicate Frank Wilson for numerous reasons. An example: when I was at Simply Vinyl I wanted to replicate Cream's "Disreali Gears" album artwork. Couldn't do it - 'Day-Glo' doesn't exist anymore!

Still I admire your criminal enterprise. Wanna have a crack at some Bearer Bonds?

Ian D

Get your facts right Ian, its 8 days. He left on Sat. I saw the record Wed before he left.

No apology needed, just send a cheque instead!

I'd rather apologise if you don't mind Andy. Sorry, you are of course completely correct. Damn, this is getting complicated now LOL......where do we stand on the dosh front now............?

Ian D

And I photocopied it in the secretariat department of Mapperley Hospital. Someone mentioned it being initialled "OK" by Norm W? Jonathans was definitely marked in such a way - I wonder who spilt the coffee on it? does that make it more valuable than one without?

RB

Depends on whose coffee it was - please see estimated values below:-

Frank Wilson's Coffee + £5,000

Berry Gordy's Coffee + £4,500

Norman Whitfield's Coffee + £3,000

Les McCutcheon's Coffee + £2,000

Kev Robert's Coffee + £1,500

Johnathan Woodliffe's Coffee + £1,000

Secretary @ Mapperley Hospital's Coffee - £1,000

Accidental McDonald's Spillage - £5,000

Ian D

I'm going fishing, looks like there's plenty of red herrings about today ...

This thread's had 20,432 views so far.

Under the current rules that keep being forced on us, doesn't that mean the Moderators have to break it up into lots of smaller threads and move it elsewhere ????

This thread's had 20,432 views so far.

Under the current rules that keep being forced on us, doesn't that mean the Moderators have to break it up into lots of smaller threads and move it elsewhere ????

ask yet again please post all such q's in feedback

in past the concern has been about the number of posts and the content not the amount of views

hope helps

mike

I am loving this. can nobody guess where the 3rd copy is coming from? ha ha

remember i know what is happening

gogs

sorry came up twice

gogs still in the shade

Edited February 9, 200916 yr by Gogs

ask yet again please post all such q's in feedback

in past the concern has been about the number of posts and the content not the amount of views

hope helps

mike

It was meant to be funny, Mike.

I guess you didn't spot that.

It was meant to be funny, Mike.

I guess you didn't spot that.

Nonetheless it's good to see you out and about!

Ian D

Jimmys Lambretta off Quadrophenia recently made gbp 36,000 , it was purchased by a nightclub owner in Scotland for display & as an investment ?

Compared to the value of some of the items in the Hard Rock Cafes collection 50 grand for a Frank Wilson original would be peanuts & in the first instant allowable against tax.

This record is unique - its the only copy with BIG felt writing on

I think it will make big money. Goldmine suggesting $100 grand, there are a lot of very very wealthy music lovers out there, who would love to own the worlds most expensive 45, possibly not even caring about what the track sounds like or the meaning that it has for the Northern Soul Community.

Thats my take - NB

I recon £28,564

Frank Wilson - Do i love it, indeed i dont

A great wedding tune, for Scooter boys and oldie goldie soulies just kidding.

Tis a good tune though

Pete Griff

Just out of interest, I checked on the DVD what it was that Frank Wilson actually said at the Togetherness weekender of 2000.

He believed that Billie Jean Brown (Motown head of quality control) used to keep a copy of practically everything, and that he thought she was likely to have a copy, or even more than one.

However, he also said that when he got back to the States he was going to ask her if she actually did have it/them. Presumably the answer was in the negative, otherwise I'm sure Frank would have made it known considering all of the publicity at the time.

Either that or he forgot to ask. Unlikely I would think.

Peter

LOL, it'd never happen Family Tree. Too many super-sleuths on here plus the whole label-printing world and vinyl manufacturing has changed massively since the mid 60's and it would be impossible to replicate Frank Wilson for numerous reasons. An example: when I was at Simply Vinyl I wanted to replicate Cream's "Disreali Gears" album artwork. Couldn't do it - 'Day-Glo' doesn't exist anymore!

Still I admire your criminal enterprise. Wanna have a crack at some Bearer Bonds?

Ian D

I will try anything once!... Im sure anything is possible, god they forge masterpieces and fool the art world! gonna give it a go.. keep ya posted!..( ooh just had a call from J.M)