Drew3 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Y'know Bearsy, I've been thinking about this a little bit more and I reckon that Frank Wilson has probably made at least £100K as a direct result of Simon nicking that copy from Motown! Frank Wilson should THANK Simon Soussan LOL! The track was used on the Kentucky Fried Chicken ad and Frank would have earned somewhere around £50-80,000 from his songwriting royalties from that as it was advertised extensively on terrestrial TV and was a major campaign. It's the holy-grail of earnings if you're a songwriter. Plus, earlier on this thread, someone was good enough to print a discography of all the compilation albums it's been on over the last 20 years which will have earnt Frank at least another £20-30K. So, in this bizarre, weird, twisted tale we have a situation where a French Morroccan wheeling-dealing record hustler steals "Do I Love You (Indeed I Do)" from Motown and inadvertantly earns Frank Wilson £100K as a direct result! You couldn't make it up! Ian D Cross-referencing what you say here Ian to my question abour FW being paid something for the sale of DILY. I now think that he should get nowt more than a pint off the seller!!! KTF. Drew. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Is it true that only 2 copies exsist Sure I read in record collecter about 4 years ago that 2 guys lookin for hip hop in a Chicargo record store found a copy of Franck Wilson for just a few dollars Was that true? Urban myth! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sunnysoul Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) If it were Ian Levine playing the kind of mind games that John Manship is playing at the moment then he would be crucified for it ... Edited February 8, 2009 by sunnysoul Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve G Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 If it were Ian Levine playing the kind of mind games that John Manship is playing at the moment then he would be crucified for it ... John playing mindgames? Eh? All he has said is that it's coming up for auction - it's us lot on here that have been speculating about a mythical 3rd copy, boxfulls waiting in an attic, some old record shop man in in LA once says he has one,etc etc. Still a two copy record and still the ultimate item for those that collect Motown. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest gordon russell Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Was hoping this didn't get trawled up but now it has I can confirm there is a copy in the hands of a London area Motown collector but pretty sure it's NOT the copy John is planning to auction. Have actually seen/held the copy & it's in near mint condition as well or it was in 2000 when I saw it. Guy who owns it don't have anything to do with the Northern/Rare Soul scene & he don't go waving it around saying look what I've got. Not going to say who he is as was asked not to by the owner so don't waste your time asking me as I'm keeping stum. how about.....the famous wimbledon taxi driver,long time detroit/motown collector tom cre??????,he has nowt to do with this scene....wouldn't rule him out,legend has it he has just about everything from detroit or detroit related soul from the 60's/70's massive collection,probably a few total unknowns as well. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Soultown andy Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Mmmm . Do I detect the slightest frisson of doubt from the previously bombastic tone of yesterday I ask myself? It's 10.00am Sunday morning and no doubt someone's managed to track Kenny down but the thread's not exactly full of "I spoke To Kenny last night and he definitively confirmed that he will in fact be cremated and Frank Wilson will not be going in the coffin with him" etc, etc..... Damn. I was relying on that quick grand to upgrade to a luxury chalet and scour the cathouses of Prestatyn........ Ian D Just out of bed and recovering from last nites allniter antics and long conversions with various long standing record dealers buyers djs etc,and not the slightest doubt what so ever ian.You will be most welcome to call in to my luxury chalet[ ]to drop of my winnings at prestatyn,the brew or something stronger to soften the blow is on me . Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 STUBLICITY PUNT Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Cheltsoulnights Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Just to enlighten everyone Tim Brown no longer has a copy He sold it to a London collecter a few months ago I know for how much but i wont breach Tims privacy If he wants to tell thats up to him So there you have it 2 COPIES ONLY! John can i bid £14 and a first edition of the sunday sport My teashirt XL on a good day Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Soultown andy Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) Just to enlighten everyone Tim Brown no longer has a copy He sold it to a London collecter a few months ago I know for how much but i wont breach Tims privacy If he wants to tell thats up to him So there you have it 2 COPIES ONLY! John can i bid £14 and a first edition of the sunday sport My teashirt XL on a good day I think johns played a blinder . Edited February 8, 2009 by Soultown andy Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Cheltsoulnights Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) Not seen it but tim confirms it is initialed by Norman Whitfield as ok Cant wait till john puts the scan up John can i withdraw my earlier bid. I dont buy records with writing on Edited February 8, 2009 by CheltSoulNights Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Scarborosoul Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) I know them both myself ian and i dont deal in chump change, still not biteing thou if theres one being sold by john its kennys . Andy, Having seen your collection, Would you not be having a go at the FW to go with yr other rare stuff?? or even in yr play box Rick Edited February 8, 2009 by Scarborosoul Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Rocker Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Intrigued to hear that the mix may be different on these original copies - like (I would guess) most on here I have the UK issue - which sounds great to me! Anyone know if the different mixes have appeared anywhere else - eg CD releases, or bootlegs of the originals? Or is this just another urban myth? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest gordon russell Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 john ia a wiley old fox,the more hype and confussion the better.Wonder if anyone will bid it up? lol Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Soultown andy Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Andy, Having seen your collection, Would you not be having a go at the FW to go in yr collection?? Rick Not for me rick i couldnt justify spending that amount of money on one record,would be nice thou .I will have to wait till some of these mythical other copies emerge,maybe ian will tip me the nod to get one cheap . Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sean Hampsey Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Intrigued to hear that the mix may be different on these original copies - like (I would guess) most on here I have the UK issue - which sounds great to me! Anyone know if the different mixes have appeared anywhere else - eg CD releases, or bootlegs of the originals? Or is this just another urban myth? Another take of Frank Wilson "Do I Love You" can be found here! Nice Piano! Sean Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Intrigued to hear that the mix may be different on these original copies - like (I would guess) most on here I have the UK issue - which sounds great to me! Anyone know if the different mixes have appeared anywhere else - eg CD releases, or bootlegs of the originals? Or is this just another urban myth? Theres already at least 3 mixes out there - the original, the UK issue and the CD issue - and theres an instrumental version too Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Gogs Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I spoke to Kenny last night, but as it was a private conversation, i'm not telling gogs Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) Another take of Frank Wilson "Do I Love You" can be found here! Nice Piano! Sean Thats awful...piano apart (which is very good)...PWL mix-a-like! Edited February 8, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
De-to Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I spoke to Kenny last night, but as it was a private conversation, i'm not telling gogs gogs is a teaser na na na na na,!!!! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
De-to Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 malc,i only posted this "dodgy duet" up for a laugh cobbled together supposedly by my old mate tony warot from bedford a few years ago and was played at some all-nighters at the time,i cannot get the clip to play ????,it is my first attempt at posting a record clip on here, Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
De-to Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Another take of Frank Wilson "Do I Love You" can be found here! Nice Piano! Seantwo more versions via youtube, bobby wayne, dean parrish, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AbMhIhp4bM (imo),me ears are bleeding, Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) Intrigued to hear that the mix may be different on these original copies - like (I would guess) most on here I have the UK issue - which sounds great to me! Anyone know if the different mixes have appeared anywhere else - eg CD releases, or bootlegs of the originals? Or is this just another urban myth? there's an alternative studio take complete with 1,2,3 intro etc on here in refosoul that I posted some time ago. Someone said it might be the take used on the cd release, I've not compared 'em so couldn't tell you to be honest. Edited February 8, 2009 by chalky Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest JJMMWGDuPree Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 If I was the richest man in the world rather than the 802,426,137th I'd buy this thing, play it until I sick to the eardrums with it, then give it to Frank, let him do what the heck he wants with it... Then again, if I was the richest man in the world I'd probably be a right cucking funt... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest JJMMWGDuPree Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I take it condition won't be a factor then? With the best will in the world, Kenny must have played it a few hundred times on a variety of different decks so what condition does everone think it will be in? And will that be a factor or will the auction winner be buying it for it's historical value alone? Ian D I'm guessing that anyone who buys this will be able to afford a laser vinyl player. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Bicks Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I spoke to Kenny last night, but as it was a private conversation, i'm not telling gogs I rang both Kenny and Tim last night, neither knew who the hell I was and promptly put the phone down on me. Think I'll try John and Berry tonight, phone rate to the US is cheaper after 6.00 pm Sunday. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sean Hampsey Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I rang both Kenny and Tim last night, neither knew who the hell I was and promptly put the phone down on me. Think I'll try John and Berry tonight, phone rate to the US is cheaper after 6.00 pm Sunday. Huh? Who said that? Sean Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Rbman Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
paup-ine Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Does anyone know how many copies of FW has been released?? i.e.: Original - 2? Uk Original release - ? UK re-issue - ? etc.. etc.. Boots - ? Just a thought. P Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Cheltsoulnights Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 This statement is categorically not true. Tim still has his copy, as I saw and touched it only last week whilst having a cup of tea with him at his house!!! Tim text me last night with that info The text clearly stated he had sold it, the price and location call him Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 This statement is categorically not true. Tim still has his copy, as I saw and touched it only last week whilst having a cup of tea with him at his house!!! Well that would've been difficult 'cos Tim's been in Florida for the last 10 days LOL....! Ian D Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Tim text me last night with that info The text clearly stated he had sold it, the price and location call him Must be a different Tim then! The Tim Brown I know has an aversion to all things technical and wouldn't know how to text to save his life. Besides, he's been in Florida for the last 10 days and I doubt he even has his mobile with him....... Ian D Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Interesting to note, that around time the record passed from Les M, to Kev R, to Jonathan W, back to Kev R, they all worked in Nottingham city centre, in fact the premise where Robs (Smith) record mart is now. (ok, JW might be the exception, but he was nearby! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dave Thorley Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Dave, I just remembered the guy who sat next to me at school, his sister had one...or was it Jackie Wilson, no it was definitely Frank. I knew "Pops" real well, sad to hear that he's passed, i visited "Pops" regular over many many years, he never had Frank Wilson...why the hell would he? this thread is now getting ridiculous. Everyone seems to be forgetting there are several rare 45s on Motown group of labels as rare and rarer than Frank Wilson 45. Mary Wells - Motown 1061 (they made the picture sleeve for that one, and is considered the rarest picture sleeve in the world)) Isley Brothers - VIP Patrice Holloway - VIP Chris Clark on VIP Earl Van Dyke on Soul 35009 to name but a few Motown related real rare uns...and there are more. The fact remains since 1965 there has been 2 copies known to this scene and one of them is damaged. Every record, just like a human being has a unique start to life and a unique finish; some are common, some are inexplicably rare, everyone on this thread can theorize all they like i don't know for sure why it's rare and I don't think anyone else does. Frank Wilson would be the best and possibly the only man to ask to get somewhere near the truth... One thought to leave you with, the Motown powers had just told one of the finest ever Motown vocalists, Eddie Holland "no more records for you Eddie just writing and producing for you from now on." Why would they release a 45 by Frank Wilson a relatively new man to the fold and a writer/producer as well. That would be upsetting a happy ship (wouldn't it?) then if it went out and had a hit! Needless to say Eddie was a very important part of the Motown team. Whatever the reason, the 45 is a continuously validated serious rarity of the highest stature. And yes there'll be a truck load of people who'll say i had one my mate had one, i know someone who knew someone who had one, just like the thread on the Len Barry - It's That Time Of The Year - LP. No offense Dave, I'm sure you were taking the "myth" a bit, but some could "myth" the point. john Hi John Your right, it is a very rare record and as I said 'Just to add the the urban myth'. All this chatter, is good PR for the eventual sale and I thought I'd add a few versions of the many stories that have circulated over the years. Anyway, hows business generally. Dave Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest familytree Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) Not seen it but tim confirms it is initialed by Norman Whitfield as ok Cant wait till john puts the scan up John can i withdraw my earlier bid. I dont buy records with writing on J.M said he scanned kennys ... why not Tims then?? i dont get it... unless they are all in on the 'prank'?.. or would Tims warp show up so it would be visible whos copy was up for sale?.. No because John said the one for sale was mint... intriguing... of course we may never get to know if one sells or who buys it!.. the winner may want to keep his/her annonimity too.. therefore you could get away with saying.. 'no one won the bid so I have bought it for the reserve'.. without it ever swopping hands... ahhhhhhhh plot thickens... if Im making sense.. ha Edited February 8, 2009 by familytree Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Rich B Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Interesting to note, that around time the record passed from Les M, to Kev R, to Jonathan W, back to Kev R, they all worked in Nottingham city centre, in fact the premise where Robs (Smith) record mart is now. (ok, JW might be the exception, but he was nearby! And I photocopied it in the secretariat department of Mapperley Hospital. Someone mentioned it being initialled "OK" by Norm W? Jonathans was definitely marked in such a way - I wonder who spilt the coffee on it? does that make it more valuable than one without? RB Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest familytree Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Just another thought... it cant be hard to fake a copy in this day and age and make it look authentic surely... for the prices being banged about on here and in Manships book its gotta be tempting... Im an artist I may have a bash! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
snooky Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 When the tee shirts on sale!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!better hurry up before the myth explodes,cash in now John..... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Just another thought... it cant be hard to fake a copy in this day and age and make it look authentic surely... for the prices being banged about on here and in Manships book its gotta be tempting... Im an artist I may have a bash! LOL, it'd never happen Family Tree. Too many super-sleuths on here plus the whole label-printing world and vinyl manufacturing has changed massively since the mid 60's and it would be impossible to replicate Frank Wilson for numerous reasons. An example: when I was at Simply Vinyl I wanted to replicate Cream's "Disreali Gears" album artwork. Couldn't do it - 'Day-Glo' doesn't exist anymore! Still I admire your criminal enterprise. Wanna have a crack at some Bearer Bonds? Ian D Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Get your facts right Ian, its 8 days. He left on Sat. I saw the record Wed before he left. No apology needed, just send a cheque instead! I'd rather apologise if you don't mind Andy. Sorry, you are of course completely correct. Damn, this is getting complicated now LOL......where do we stand on the dosh front now............? Ian D Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 And I photocopied it in the secretariat department of Mapperley Hospital. Someone mentioned it being initialled "OK" by Norm W? Jonathans was definitely marked in such a way - I wonder who spilt the coffee on it? does that make it more valuable than one without? RB Depends on whose coffee it was - please see estimated values below:- Frank Wilson's Coffee + £5,000 Berry Gordy's Coffee + £4,500 Norman Whitfield's Coffee + £3,000 Les McCutcheon's Coffee + £2,000 Kev Robert's Coffee + £1,500 Johnathan Woodliffe's Coffee + £1,000 Secretary @ Mapperley Hospital's Coffee - £1,000 Accidental McDonald's Spillage - £5,000 Ian D Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sunnysoul Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I'm going fishing, looks like there's plenty of red herrings about today ... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 This thread's had 20,432 views so far. Under the current rules that keep being forced on us, doesn't that mean the Moderators have to break it up into lots of smaller threads and move it elsewhere ???? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mike Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 This thread's had 20,432 views so far. Under the current rules that keep being forced on us, doesn't that mean the Moderators have to break it up into lots of smaller threads and move it elsewhere ???? ask yet again please post all such q's in feedback in past the concern has been about the number of posts and the content not the amount of views hope helps mike Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Gogs Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I am loving this. can nobody guess where the 3rd copy is coming from? ha ha remember i know what is happening gogs Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Gogs Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) sorry came up twice gogs still in the shade Edited February 9, 2009 by Gogs Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 ask yet again please post all such q's in feedback in past the concern has been about the number of posts and the content not the amount of views hope helps mike It was meant to be funny, Mike. I guess you didn't spot that. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ian Dewhirst Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 It was meant to be funny, Mike. I guess you didn't spot that. Nonetheless it's good to see you out and about! Ian D Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest northern beats Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Jimmys Lambretta off Quadrophenia recently made gbp 36,000 , it was purchased by a nightclub owner in Scotland for display & as an investment ? Compared to the value of some of the items in the Hard Rock Cafes collection 50 grand for a Frank Wilson original would be peanuts & in the first instant allowable against tax. This record is unique - its the only copy with BIG felt writing on I think it will make big money. Goldmine suggesting $100 grand, there are a lot of very very wealthy music lovers out there, who would love to own the worlds most expensive 45, possibly not even caring about what the track sounds like or the meaning that it has for the Northern Soul Community. Thats my take - NB I recon £28,564 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Pete Griffin Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Frank Wilson - Do i love it, indeed i dont A great wedding tune, for Scooter boys and oldie goldie soulies just kidding. Tis a good tune though Pete Griff Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Peter Richer Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Just out of interest, I checked on the DVD what it was that Frank Wilson actually said at the Togetherness weekender of 2000. He believed that Billie Jean Brown (Motown head of quality control) used to keep a copy of practically everything, and that he thought she was likely to have a copy, or even more than one. However, he also said that when he got back to the States he was going to ask her if she actually did have it/them. Presumably the answer was in the negative, otherwise I'm sure Frank would have made it known considering all of the publicity at the time. Either that or he forgot to ask. Unlikely I would think. Peter Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
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