At Last nights Attic Rob Wigley played the extended version of Kenny Smith - Lord What's Happening To Your People, the version with the extended vocal fade out at the end. I saw this was a GAR issue. Are all longer versions on GAR issue? Is there any identifying feature (apart from listening to it) to set this version aside from others. By the way Rob, good play, hadn't heard the longer vocal played for a long time.

Thanks for any info. Dean.

At Last nights Attic Rob Wigley played the extended version of Kenny Smith - Lord What's Happening To Your People, the version with the extended vocal fade out at the end. I saw this was a GAR issue. Are all longer versions on GAR issue? Is there any identifying feature (apart from listening to it) to set this version aside from others. By the way Rob, good play, hadn't heard the longer vocal played for a long time.

Thanks for any info. Dean.

To be quite honest, ive only ever heard the GAR issue, so i really don`t know, is the goldspot version different?

To be quite honest, ive only ever heard the GAR issue, so i really don`t know, is the goldspot version different?

I'll try to post the goldspot version

To be quite honest, ive only ever heard the GAR issue, so i really don`t know, is the goldspot version different?

If memory serves, I think the Goldspot take and the GAR take are the same, different title on Record tho', Lord What's Happened / Lord What's Happening to Your People on Goldspot / GAR. I don't know about this extended vocal take, or how to spot without listening. Does anyone know if there's a different TIME: printed on the extended vocal version. Please tell me this isn't all in imagination!!

If memory serves, I think the Goldspot take and the GAR take are the same, different title on Record tho', Lord What's Happened / Lord What's Happening to Your People on Goldspot / GAR. I don't know about this extended vocal take, or how to spot without listening. Does anyone know if there's a different TIME: printed on the extended vocal version. Please tell me this isn't all in imagination!!

The intro for sure is not the same - the GAR one seems to have lost the churchy organ and has only the piano....

If memory serves, I think the Goldspot take and the GAR take are the same, different title on Record tho', Lord What's Happened / Lord What's Happening to Your People on Goldspot / GAR. I don't know about this extended vocal take, or how to spot without listening. Does anyone know if there's a different TIME: printed on the extended vocal version. Please tell me this isn't all in imagination!!

THE GAR BOOT IS NOT AS LONG AS THE GAR ORIG ...THE BOOT DOE`S NOT HAVE ABOUT 15 TO 20 SECONDS , AT THE END WHERE ALL THE INSTRUMENTS FADE OUT AND HE`S ALONE WITH THE VOCAL

HOPE THIS HELPS STEVE T

The intro for sure is not the same - the GAR one seems to have lost the churchy organ and has only the piano....

Deffo........the organ is different on the Goldspot issue.

Russ

The Gar Orig has a different ending to the Goldstop take,my mate Marke Hopes as a copy,the Gar take at the end slows down too Kenny singing acapelo wich lasts a little longer than half a minit. The Gar boot dont have this.will try and post a mp3 in refrosoul. Please be patient..I am a numpty at this

Goldspot 2:51

GAR demo a massive 3:38

Blue n' white issue 3:38

well there you go....

gotta say - forgotten how good this is.....

anyone got a Goldspot for sale?

Deffo........the organ is different on the Goldspot issue.

Russ

just had a listen russ & yep can see what you mean

Question Answered.

The Gar Orig has a different ending to the Goldstop take,my mate Marke Hopes as a copy,the Gar take at the end slows down too Kenny singing acapelo wich lasts a little longer than half a minit. The Gar boot dont have this.will try and post a mp3 in refrosoul. Please be patient..I am a numpty at this

Thanks for all the info. All helpful. Is opinion that ALL (genuine) GAR multi coloured Issues and b/w demos have the longer fading acapelo at the end. I'm not sure about this (doubting Dean). It may be that I've not been listening well enough, or scoundrels playing boots, or hearing Goldspot takes. My memory is rubbish. Any more info would help me sleep!

The Goldspot version posted on here and the GAR version (at least the GAR original demo) ARE different. A completely different vocal*, horn, and string track all the way through (although the basic guitar/bass/drum rhythm tracks might be the same). *Hmm, I listed to them both again and I'm not sure if the vocal track is the same or not, very close though. I was not aware of this and had been told differently - thanks much for the enlightenment

A bunch of GAR promos with M/S sides surfaced in Seattle a while back, then disappeared, then more where found when the owner of the stock passed away and his son sold the remains. Must have been at least 25 copies if not more. The son or a friend had been selling them on eBay last fall. Anyone who bought one of those has the original.

Edited January 4, 201015 yr by George G

When we were in Seattle in November the record store at Pike Place Market (Holy Cow I think it is called) had 4 of those demos for sale DeeJay and I picked up 2 for $160. He said he had got them and thought Kenny Smith sounded like a country singer. Wonder if they were from the same batch George?

Mark, Probably the same source. I don't know how many are left. The original price was $15! The few I got are long gone. I don't think there were any stock copies. The deceased person, Walt, had a lot of King stuff, but none of the good ones. The stock was being sold off before I had moved to Seattle in 1993, so who knows what else was there.

As has been previously said, so I'll clarify it all:

the only short version is the GAR bootleg from 1976, all the others have the extended ending.

The Goldspot take is very different to the GAR one.

Does GAR mean General American records?

As has been previously said, so I'll clarify it all:

the only short version is the GAR bootleg from 1976, all the others have the extended ending.

The Goldspot take is very different to the GAR one.

Does GAR mean General American records?

yes

I heard Butch play this at the 100 club-with the longer ending-in the late 80s.

Like most people in our area -Mansfield--I'd grown up on the bootlegged demo--or the then "cheaper" Gold Spot copy.

I immediately set about getting a copy-but I can't for the life of me remember where I got it or what I paid, but I certainly had it by the first anniversary at Keele as I remember playing it in my spot.

It caused a bit of a stir at the Attic, but as with all these records you don't hear that often it sounds quite fresh!

Rob

Each to his own, but I'll take GAR version every time, such a good tune

I heard Butch play this at the 100 club-with the longer ending-in the late 80s.

Like most people in our area -Mansfield--I'd grown up on the bootlegged demo--or the then "cheaper" Gold Spot copy.

I immediately set about getting a copy-but I can't for the life of me remember where I got it or what I paid, but I certainly had it by the first anniversary at Keele as I remember playing it in my spot.

It caused a bit of a stir at the Attic, but as with all these records you don't hear that often it sounds quite fresh!

Rob

Hi Rob, funny thing memory isn't it. I was trying to fill in the blanks in my mind having heard you play this on Sat (and sounding very good by the way). I think what's happened around my ears is early on (70s) I've heard this (must have been on Goldspot), and as I always was at the time, dancin' away to it. I think my immersion in dancing to records (do you remember when we were on the floor just about all night, oh the youth!) wasn't helpful to hearing some of the finer points of the music. I then have a memory, sure it was at Nottingham palais, no idea of DJ, of being stunned by hearing a longer vocal exit that seemed to drift over the dance floor at the end. I'd not registered the organ/piano difference in my foot fuelled enthusiasm. I was blown away. I don't remember registering that feeling again until the other night. Given the information on here, I can only presume when I have heard this out over the latter years, when more listening and less dancing has become the order of the night, it's been a boot. That issue you had on the decks not only sounded great but did look great too. Must try and get me one of those.

Thanks for all the information everyone to help my rubbish memory. dean

I have posted my play list on the Attic thread

But on the subject of Kenny Smith

Back in the 70s when it was played-there were that many "new" records to fit in a DJ wouldn't keep it going on til the end at over 3 mins its very long for the time it was played. Like the talking intro on "Get Out" didn't really fit the bill dance floor wise back then.

Also I suspect too long to bootleg as a full version as well (on a 7")-its really a quality record-heavy plastic, well made etc and nice to look at-I would suspect a lot harder to get as well on an issue.

I love it-thats why I knew it would go down well on Saturday

Rob

gotta say - forgotten how good this is.....

anyone got a Goldspot for sale?

I have one I would be prepared to sell..........I would grade it at EX .PM me an offer , then if you think I have the grading wrong contact me

Just to widen this out a bit - Kennys record on Kogan is also Goldspot music did it come out on that as well?

Edited January 4, 201015 yr by jkw

Far as I can recall Goldspot was Kenny Smith's own company and LWHTYP is the only release on the label. He then later went on to work at General American where I think he ended up as a Vice President? I've always regarded the Goldspot 45 as the first outing for this song but I know some folks don't because of Soussan's lists in the mid 70s. Has anyone and DEFINITIVE info on which came first. The Goldspot copies were tough back in the 70s and the different lengths (and in fact takes/mixes) were always a topic of discussion. Quality record for sure.

Just to widen this out a bir - Kennys record on Kogan is also Goldspot music did i come out on that as well?

No. The only 45 on Goldspot is Lord....it's the only 45 of Kenny's that I don't have AFAIK.

Goldspot was originally Kenny's BMI publishing handle, he's had that since the early 1960s. I think I posted about this some time ago, maybe there is more info about Kenny in that thread.

Far as I can recall Goldspot was Kenny Smith's own company and LWHTYP is the only release on the label. He then later went on to work at General American where I think he ended up as a Vice President? I've always regarded the Goldspot 45 as the first outing for this song but I know some folks don't because of Soussan's lists in the mid 70s. Has anyone and DEFINITIVE info on which came first. The Goldspot copies were tough back in the 70s and the different lengths (and in fact takes/mixes) were always a topic of discussion. Quality record for sure.

I made a simultaneous post about this....

The General American/GAR label has a strange history. It was started in St. Louis, moved to Illinois, and then transferred to Cincinnati. I don't have the details at my recall. I think Kenny's involvement was related to his TV show.

I don't know about Soussan and boots. The Goldspot copies that I've seen for sale by US dealers in the area are guaranteed original 1971 copies. Pressed at QCA.

Edited January 4, 201015 yr by George G

I have posted my play list on the Attic thread

But on the subject of Kenny Smith

Back in the 70s when it was played-there were that many "new" records to fit in a DJ wouldn't keep it going on til the end at over 3 mins its very long for the time it was played. Like the talking intro on "Get Out" didn't really fit the bill dance floor wise back then.

Also I suspect too long to bootleg as a full version as well (on a 7")-its really a quality record-heavy plastic, well made etc and nice to look at-I would suspect a lot harder to get as well on an issue.

I love it-thats why I knew it would go down well on Saturday

Rob

A superb record that I have been thinking for some time could do with a revival, especially as that funky soul thang has come back into vogue, as i remember, this was a fave of the late Nev Wherry & that man had taste.........this deserves to be huge again & big props to Rob for dusting it off.

Regards

Russ

Top tune Rob, well done for having the cojones to play it out. I had both a dj and the blue and white issue and I think the issue is much harder. I've only ever seen the one I owned.

As someone said the Goldspot copies generally tainted by Soussans list. For me, the only way to own it is GAR, because that was the played version. Just call me old fashioned.

best,

RB

ps must get together soon.

Top tune Rob, well done for having the cojones to play it out. I had both a dj and the blue and white issue and I think the issue is much harder. I've only ever seen the one I owned.

As someone said the Goldspot copies generally tainted by Soussans list. For me, the only way to own it is GAR, because that was the played version. Just call me old fashioned.

best,

RB

ps must get together soon.

I think I just re-activated the first BIG OLDIE of 2010

get down T'Attic richie-even Chris & Sue turned up-Jonno was ther as well you can give him a ride over !

Happy New Year

Rob & Karen

As someone said the Goldspot copies generally tainted by Soussans list. For me, the only way to own it is GAR, because that was the played version. Just call me old fashioned.

The GAR issue is probably the rarest - and the ending is great, but I'm torn, despite the Soussan conection I love the Goldspot 'sound' the churchy organ and overall earthier feel to it ....

whichever I think Mr Wigley has indeed reactivated the first oldie of 2010 and it's gonna sound great alongside Rosco & Friends and Roy Roberts Experience.....

nice one

Edited January 5, 201015 yr by jkw

On 04/01/2010 at 18:26, Dave Moore said:

Far as I can recall Goldspot was Kenny Smith's own company and LWHTYP is the only release on the label. He then later went on to work at General American where I think he ended up as a Vice President? I've always regarded the Goldspot 45 as the first outing for this song but I know some folks don't because of Soussan's lists in the mid 70s. Has anyone and DEFINITIVE info on which came first. The Goldspot copies were tough back in the 70s and the different lengths (and in fact takes/mixes) were always a topic of discussion. Quality record for sure.

Nice one .i thought the gold spot was super difficult to find until soussan booted it .i am sure people have goldspot boots they think are original .that soussan list didn’t half cause a stir back in the day 

The boy can sing!

Oh Lord

Real floor filler with a poignant message!

Ed

On 04/01/2010 at 21:22, Rich B said:

Top tune Rob, well done for having the cojones to play it out. I had both a dj and the blue and white issue and I think the issue is much harder. I've only ever seen the one I owned.

 

As someone said the Goldspot copies generally tainted by Soussans list. For me, the only way to own it is GAR, because that was the played version. Just call me old fashioned.

 

best,

RB

 

ps must get together soon.

Rich. I used to own the issue.  It's a lovely looking label. Sold it to Chris Anderton . 

Steve 

Courtesy of John Manship site

Edited January 12, 20196 yr by Winsford Soul

3 hours ago, Richard Free said:

Nice one .i thought the gold spot was super difficult to find until soussan booted it .i am sure people have goldspot boots they think are original .that soussan list didn’t half cause a stir back in the day 

Why do you think the Goldspot 45s are boots?  The fact that SS listed them isn't really definitive. There were plenty of originals on his lists too.  I've never heard any definitive info either way?

Dave 

Hi Dave I am talking about the list that caused a rumpus back in 76 which was full of boots cheers richard 

Kent of all the people got their sleeve notes on Kenny so wrong!

From 'Northern Soul's Classiest Rarities' .....

On 12/01/2019 at 12:56, Winsford Soul said:

Rich. I used to own the issue.  It's a lovely looking label. Sold it to Chris Anderton . 

Steve 

Courtesy of John Manshi

Hi Steve, it is indeed a lovely looking label - and a lovely record too. Did you mean you owned my issue or 'a' issue - always curious about where my tunes ended up!

Best, Rich B

Edited January 14, 20196 yr by Rich B
Error

Fantastic record, first played by Colin Curtis at Blackpool Mecca

47 minutes ago, Rich B said:

Hi Steve, it is indeed a lovely looking label - and a lovely record too. Did you mean you owned my issue or 'a' issue - always curious about where my tunes ended up!

Best, Rich B

Sorry about the confusion Rich.  I dont think i got your copy I got mine about  30 years ago maybe more. It's one of the few tunes I've ever owned but can't remember where, who or how much, I know it would have been very cheap 

Steve 

28 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

Sorry about the confusion Rich.  I dont think i got your copy I got mine about  30 years ago maybe more. It's one of the few tunes I've ever owned but can't remember where, who or how much, I know it would have been very cheap 

Steve 

No worries Steve, just curious like! Sold mine about 20 years ago, so definitely a different copy!

On 12/01/2019 at 16:09, Dave Moore said:

Why do you think the Goldspot 45s are boots?  The fact that SS listed them isn't really definitive. There were plenty of originals on his lists too.  I've never heard any definitive info either way? 

Dave 

I specifically asked Kenny about this and he was absolutely clear that Goldspot was the first version and his local release.

He then hooked up with GAR and the song was "done again"

Andy

 

1 hour ago, Rich B said:

No worries Steve, just curious like! Sold mine about 20 years ago, so definitely a different copy!

Hi rich I ended up with your copy for a while  let it go in a swap deal at a record fair in Notts about 15 years ago

 

Regards Steve p

To backup Dave and Andy once again, here is all you need to know on the first issue of this track on Goldspot:

“

If so pretty sure this is the 1971 original QCA pressed first issue, with GAR following on. 

 

The lowdown from Kenny's own mouth can be found here:

 

https://www.shakeitrecords.com/cincinnatisoulspectrum/smith/index.html

“

I’ve never seen a 70’s Goldspot counterfeit but it was pressed on a lookalike a few years ago - easy to tell.

 

Can anyone confirm if there was a Goldspot counterfeit from the 70’s (and what the details are) or is this just more rumour associated with this release?

Thanks,

J

 

9 hours ago, speedlimit said:

Hi rich I ended up with your copy for a while  let it go in a swap deal at a record fair in Notts about 15 years ago

 

Regards Steve p

Hi Steve, I always hoped when I sold up that they would go to "good homes" - job done then!

atb,

RB

From the link above, for ease:

 

"However, there's a good chance you would not be holding this CD right now if it weren't for one song in particular: "Lord, What's Happening To Your People?".
Issued in 1971 as the first and only release on Kenny's own Goldspot label, (originally titled "Lord, What's Happened?"), the record was written to cash in on a particular trend that Kenny describes as the "Jesus-rock era." "It was just a market or a trend that was going on at the time, so I thought it would fit," Kenny explains. Some label owners from Chicago thought that it would fit as well. They picked up "Lord..." to re-release on their General American Records imprint.

However, General American had bigger things in mind for Kenny than the Billboard charts. They made him the Publishing Director of the company and the host of their new television show: Soul Street. Soul Street, for which Kenny also wrote the opening and closing themes, was broadcast in 36 markets around the country and featured a range of guests from local artist Tommy Wills, to more well known acts such as Lynn Collins, the Ohio Players, Little Royal, the Detroit Emeralds, Gladys Knight and James Brown. Soul Street ran for ten episodes, the first nine of which were hosted by Kenny. Behind the scenes, things were falling apart for GAR. A new host was brought in for the tenth episode, and that was it as the studio pulled the plug on the show due to unpaid bills.

Kenny was out of his element in the television studio. By the early seventies Kenny was a seasoned performer and a regular on the regional club scene. Used to the gritty and aggressive atmosphere of the nightclub, the cold, sterile television set was an environment with which Kenny was unfamiliar. Besides being a fish out of water, Kenny was face to face with people who he previously considered to be his idols. ""I got intimidated a little bit, by these people ...I used to worship ‘em. James Brown, you know, I did all his stuff, danced like him, everything else. And all of a sudden, here I am in control of this guy, askin’ him questions."

However, "Lord, What's Happened" would provide Kenny with recognition yet again in a strange and unexpected way. The song failed to ride the gospel-rock wave that Kenny had tried to latch onto in the U.S., but it got a second shot at success across the Atlantic in the dance clubs of Northern England.

A couple of years after its release in the States, the British Northern Soul scene discovered the record and it became an anthem at the legendary Blackpool Mecca. Demand for the single from British dj's and collectors was high enough that in 1976 that Kenny was tracked down by the infamous French rare soul dealer and producer Simon Soussan. The original contract between Kenny and Soussan's Soul Galore Disco-Sound Productions details how Smith was paid $300 in advance for the right to reissue "Lord What's Happened" for the Northern Soul market and a promise of royalties to come for any copies pressed up and sold. Look more closely, however, and one notices that it is doubtful that any "commercial" copies were ever pressed up, because Soussan had 1000 to 1500 "promotional" copies made beforehand, after which there'd be no need for any commercial copies. 

As with many revered performers of the past, financial success eluded Smith. But his name was firmly fixed in the canon of rare soul artists. He would have further contact with the Northern Soul collectors and dj's through other records. His very rare release on the Flo-Roe label, "One More Day" has become a hot item for collectors only recently. "Just Your Fool", penned by Smith, but performed by Eddie Whitehead is another record that failed to make the cut here in America, but found posthumous fame across the way."

So Soussan was responsible for the GAR boots (even mis spelling Kenny's name!), and there are no Goldspot boots from the same period? Can anyone confirm?

 

 

Edited January 15, 20196 yr by corbett80

...I see there is GOLD SPOT on JM’s auction now....already at £161....😃....

Just now, MGM 1251 said:

...I see there is GOLD SPOT on JM’s auction now....already at £161....😃....

Canny lad John, he knows when to list 🤑

On 13/01/2019 at 21:06, Soul-Slider said:

Kent of all the people got their sleeve notes on Kenny so wrong!

From 'Northern Soul's Classiest Rarities' .....

 

You mean Kenny smith the "blue-eyed soul singer"  ?!

 

 

On 15/01/2019 at 19:48, MGM 1251 said:

...I see there is GOLD SPOT on JM’s auction now....already at £161....😃....

Well hopefully John's notes put the rumours surrounding the Goldspot to bed... now at £344!!

Edited January 18, 20196 yr by corbett80