without wanting to start another oldies v newies war, i'm wondering where the next "classic" is coming from!...is it feasible to suggest that the traditional northern 45 discoveries are dried up?. i don't frequent any up front venues these days as the records i hear don't blow me away. i'm not implying they are no good, just not as good as the sounds i was first hearing about 7 or 8 years ago,whe i would hear stuff like the jokers "soul sound" for instance, those were wtf is this moments, iknow a lot of tunes in the progressive venues are new, but not by definition traditional northern,,

whatit was like all those years ago ,when every week you would go to a venue and be hearing sound after sound what are now regarded as classics. what i would give to go out and hear something like duke browner or landslide for the first time.

without wanting to start another oldies v newies war, i'm wondering where the next "classic" is coming from!...is it feasible to suggest that the traditional northern 45 discoveries are dried up?. i don't frequent any up front venues these days as the records i hear don't blow me away. i'm not implying they are no good, just not as good as the sounds i was first hearing about 7 or 8 years ago,whe i would hear stuff like the jokers "soul sound" for instance, those were wtf is this moments, iknow a lot of tunes in the progressive venues are new, but not by definition traditional northern,,

whatit was like all those years ago ,when every week you would go to a venue and be hearing sound after sound what are now regarded as classics. what i would give to go out and hear something like duke browner or landslide for the first time.

Hello Jim,

Personally, I think many of the next classics are right under our noses but many have been overlooked or taken for granted because they aren't rare enough or they happen to be LP tracks etc.

I appreciate many people will always focus on rare and exclusive tracks (and that's okay) but there are so many less expensive gems that deserve more exposure and have the potential to be very popular.

Best wishes,

Paul

very nice tune,. first time to my ears, i am in search of that motownesque beat ,that particilar tune to me is r &b orientated, that doesn't take anything away from it cos it is good,its what i might hear in an r &b room at any given niter. atb jim.

...Personally, I think many of the next classics are right under our noses but many have been overlooked or taken for granted because they aren't rare enough or they happen to be LP tracks etc...

...an example that immediately comes to mind is 'Giving Up My Heartaches' by Rhetta Hughes, a sadly neglected gem from her 1969 album Re-Light My Fire which of course also contains the classic 'Cry Myself To Sleep'.

I can't understand why 'Giving Up My Heartaches' isn't (yet) a huge favourite on the northern soul scene.

It has all the right ingedients and it's also very Motownesque - recorded at Terra Shirma in Detroit and produced by Jo Armstead and the late Mike Terry.

Paul

...an example that immediately comes to mind is 'Giving Up My Heartaches' by Rhetta Hughes, a sadly neglected gem from her 1969 album Re-Light My Fire which of course also contains the classic 'Cry Myself To Sleep'.

I can't understand why 'Giving Up My Heartaches' isn't (yet) a huge favourite on the northern soul scene.

It has all the right ingedients and it's also very Motownesque - recorded at Terra Shirma in Detroit and produced by Jo Armstead and the late Mike Terry.

Paul

Well, just listened to it, very good too,

but I think Jim means

Where's the next

Tomangoes

Bob Relf

Van Dykes

Salvadors

etc ??

Tony

Yes, Little Bob sounds like those Pendulem warm-up records.

Pleasant but nowhere near an archetypal Northern record.

ROD

Edited February 10, 201114 yr by modernsoulsucks

Well, just listened to it, very good too,

but I think Jim means

Where's the next

Tomangoes

Bob Relf

Van Dykes

Salvadors

etc ??

Tony

Hello Tony,

It may be that we'll never (or not very often) find something new to compare with classics such as 'Blowing My Mind To Pieces' or 'I Really Love You' etc.

If ever anything of that calibre turns up, I'm almost certain it will a previously unissued master.

But we have to live in hope.

Best wishes,

Paul

...an example that immediately comes to mind is 'Giving Up My Heartaches' by Rhetta Hughes, a sadly neglected gem from her 1969 album Re-Light My Fire which of course also contains the classic 'Cry Myself To Sleep'.

I can't understand why 'Giving Up My Heartaches' isn't (yet) a huge favourite on the northern soul scene.

It has all the right ingedients and it's also very Motownesque - recorded at Terra Shirma in Detroit and produced by Jo Armstead and the late Mike Terry.

Paul

Not bad Its a bit girlie, motown sugary for me prefer detroit grittier and emotive

Not bad Its a bit girlie, motown sugary for me prefer detroit grittier and emotive

You're just too butch, you should try skipping around to the girlie stuff when there's nobody looking !

Ha okay in less polite terms its shite imo

Butch Casually and Some dunce Kid

They have all gone, all be found there is nothing left to find, the wells gone dry, end of, finito, voltooi, نهاية, kivitel, afwerking, gorffen, finition. Err bar all that stuff Ady Croasdell plays.

Seems to me that the quality new discoveries are few and far between these days as it's already been stated here to find a new 60's record to compare with the now classics is now rare in it's self, however perhaps the injection to freshen things up is sitting right under our noses, I've started to revisit things which I used to have or which passed me by before and when you actually start to play one or two things it's easy to see that some records take on a whole new life and you forget how good they actually are, quality is quality from whatever era.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Seems to me that the quality new discoveries are few and far between these days as it's already been stated here to find a new 60's record to compare with the now classics is now rare in it's self, however perhaps the injection to freshen things up is sitting right under our noses, I've started to revisit things which I used to have or which passed me by before and when you actually start to play one or two things it's easy to see that some records take on a whole new life and you forget how good they actually are, quality is quality from whatever era.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I agree with that, Mark.

I'm often surprised at quality soul tracks that many people aren't familiar with.

Some may not be very rare but it will be refreshing for more DJs to be more diverse - not just with music but with rarity etc.

Whenever someone hears a great track which is new to them, it's a thrill whether the track is rare or not.

Went down the rare route for many years when I was DJ'ing and it's so easy to get sucked into the if it's cheap it can't be any good syndrome which we all know is total bollocks lol, there so so many cheap/common/easy to find records that if they were hard to find they would be four figure sum records in terms of musical quality and merit if that makes any sense, stuff like The C.O.D.'s - I'm A Good Guy, Syl Johnson - Try Me, Lou Bond - You Shake Me Up etc. etc. all hold their own with the big ticket items in terms of quality, it's funny that kudos seems to only come if records are shit rare and high priced, perhaps this is less important these days but it certainly has been the case over the years, if you scratch the surface and step under it then there are hundreds of records out there to go at, digging around on Ebay in the wee small hours most certainly proves that lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Although it's not one of my personal favourites but Billy Harner - I've got to check you out on V-Tone is one of the best recent discoveries. Classic Northern beat, catchy break, the lot.

Went down the rare route for many years when I was DJ'ing and it's so easy to get sucked into the if it's cheap it can't be any good syndrome which we all know is total bollocks lol, there so so many cheap/common/easy to find records that if they were hard to find they would be four figure sum records in terms of musical quality and merit if that makes any sense, stuff like The C.O.D.'s - I'm A Good Guy, Syl Johnson - Try Me, Lou Bond - You Shake Me Up etc. etc. all hold their own with the big ticket items in terms of quality, it's funny that kudos seems to only come if records are shit rare and high priced, perhaps this is less important these days but it certainly has been the case over the years, if you scratch the surface and step under it then there are hundreds of records out there to go at, digging around on Ebay in the wee small hours most certainly proves that lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I agree wholeheartedly with that Mark.

One of the things myself and a couple of mates have often said is that we'd love to get a line-up together of people who we respect as DJs and who have good collections in terms of breadth and depth. Then we'd make em play out of one another's boxes. (Would be interesting I think to see what they pulled and played and chances are if someone looked in my 'playbox' they'd use things I tend to bypass as a matter of course, for whatever reason). It's like anything, when they're right under your nose it's all too easy to miss em. Bagsie having first pop at Butch's

This is precisely one of the reasons why I've always really rated Joan as a DJ, because if she thinks it's good enough she'll give it an airing and things I can think of off the top of my head that she's really revived - not necessarily singularly of course, she certainly wouldn't thank me for claiming that on her behalf or claim it herself, but she's given em 'airtime' when most had forgotten about or overlooked em, include:

Performers - I can't stop you

Incredibles - miss treatment

Five Stairsteps & Cubie - tell me who

Ambassadors - I need someone

Incredibles - crying heart

Garnet Mimms - prove it to me

All pretty tried and tested over the years of course, some more than others obviously, but good enough to play anywhere IMHO. I hear loads of 'DJs', and I've probably been guilty of this on those rare occasions when I've played out in the past, who simply play the 22 most expensive records they've got. No flow, little thought or creativity and it all gets a bit dull to be honest, not to mention difficult to dance to in terms of a 'set'. Great also to hear the likes of Chalky playing 45s other than the monsters that tend, by definition, to predominate on the decks at major events like Lifeline. (That's certainly not me being criticial - one of the reasons why that is an awesome nighter is because you get chance to hear stuff you don't hear much any place else - but it's also great to hear things like the Grier Bros getting an outing alongside their much more expensive counterparts; just as good too IMHO).

The other 'clue' I think, and this is what Mark and one or two others have alluded to already, is that I don't think you need to try too hard to bend, redefine or even bastardise (maybe a bit strong ) genres to keep it fresh; there are plenty out there that are known and which deserve their proper 15 minutes in the sun IMHO without resorting to stuff that simply isn't up to it. It's not whether it's 'new' that matters so much to me, it's whether it's good enough.

Without wanting to revive the 'top tips' thread we had recently - which goes to show that, thankfully, the hounds and some sounds are still out there pushing, prodding and pulling us also-rans along, albeit they are inevitably in much shorter supply than was the case years ago, for various and some pretty obvious reasons - get your lugs round things like these; I wouldn't and don't bat an eye at playing em alongside 1k+ records:

Jimmy Norman - I'm leaving,

Vontastics - let me down easy or why must we part,

Vanguards - thought of losing your love,

Herbs - must be an answer,

Invaders - best is yet to come,

Gladys Knight - tell her you're mine,

Turks - you turn me on,

Drake and Ensolids - fight for love,

Patti Austin - too much a part of me,

Bull and Matadors - if you decide / love come down ... ...

Not new stuff necessarily Jim and not fortunes either but all good enough IMHO.

Insofar as rarer new discoveries are concerned we are still, by and large, in the hands of people like Ady, Andy D, Rob T, Dave T, Butch et al i.e.those with centuries worth of knowledge and contacts who've kept turning em up fairly consistently over recent-ish years.

I've heard some shite these last few years but I've also heard some absolutely awesome records that I'd never heard of before (which has been the case for about 30 years as far as I can recall). That's got to augur well I reckon and fair play to those who keep rooting, reviving and/or turning em up and those with the nads to play em.

atb

Phil

Edited February 10, 201114 yr by PhilT

Great post Phil Agree completely

They have all gone, all be found there is nothing left to find, the wells gone dry, end of, finito, voltooi, نهاية, kivitel, afwerking, gorffen, finition. Err bar all that stuff Ady Croasdell plays.

In all respect,...I am not so sure about that.

Sacred Four

Cosmos Band

Wally Coco

John Harris & Soul Sayers

Charles Simmons

Ricky Andrews (Mars La Tour..)

Willie Tee (Bonatemp)

are just a handfull from the top of my head...surely not all brand - new, been around and about for five, six or only one year but all are just about to happen right now. Plenty of stuff out there. Especially if you take also into considertaion what Mark Bicknell and Phil have just said...so much cheap and unnoticed stuff still around waiting to be picked up and appreciated on a wider level .

Been looking myself for a nice early Soul outing from NYC which has no kudos (so far) at all and finally found it for 9 USD on ebay...a week later the same title appeared with a soundclip and biff bang pow...it went for almost 300 USD.

Great post Phil Agree completely

Ditto!!

I agree wholeheartedly with that Mark.

One of the things myself and a couple of mates have often said is that we'd love to get a line-up together of people who we respect as DJs and who have good collections in terms of breadth and depth. Then we'd make em play out of one another's boxes. (Would be interesting I think to see what they pulled and played and chances are if someone looked in my 'playbox' they'd use things I tend to bypass as a matter of course, for whatever reason). It's like anything, when they're right under your nose it's all too easy to miss em. Bagsie having first pop at Butch's

This is precisely one of the reasons why I've always really rated Joan as a DJ, because if she thinks it's good enough she'll give it an airing and things I can think of off the top of my head that she's really revived - not necessarily singularly of course, she certainly wouldn't thank me for claiming that on her behalf or claim it herself, but she's given em 'airtime' when most had forgotten about or overlooked em, include:

Performers - I can't stop you

Incredibles - miss treatment

Five Stairsteps & Cubie - tell me who

Ambassadors - I need someone

Incredibles - crying heart

Garnet Mimms - prove it to me

All pretty tried and tested over the years of course, some more than others obviously, but good enough to play anywhere IMHO. I hear loads of 'DJs', and I've probably been guilty of this on those rare occasions when I've played out in the past, who simply play the 22 most expensive records they've got. No flow, little thought or creativity and it all gets a bit dull to be honest, not to mention difficult to dance to in terms of a 'set'. Great also to hear the likes of Chalky playing 45s other than the monsters that tend, by definition, to predominate on the decks at major events like Lifeline. (That's certainly not me being criticial - one of the reasons why that is an awesome nighter is because you get chance to hear stuff you don't hear much any place else - but it's also great to hear things like the Grier Bros getting an outing alongside their much more expensive counterparts; just as good too IMHO).

The other 'clue' I think, and this is what Mark and one or two others have alluded to already, is that I don't think you need to try too hard to bend, redefine or even bastardise (maybe a bit strong ) genres to keep it fresh; there are plenty out there that are known and which deserve their proper 15 minutes in the sun IMHO without resorting to stuff that simply isn't up to it. It's not whether it's 'new' that matters so much to me, it's whether it's good enough.

Without wanting to revive the 'top tips' thread we had recently - which goes to show that, thankfully, the hounds and some sounds are still out there pushing, prodding and pulling us also-rans along, albeit they are inevitably in much shorter supply than was the case years ago, for various and some pretty obvious reasons - get your lugs round things like these; I wouldn't and don't bat an eye at playing em alongside 1k+ records:

Jimmy Norman - I'm leaving,

Vontastics - let me down easy or why must we part,

Vanguards - thought of losing your love,

Herbs - must be an answer,

Invaders - best is yet to come,

Gladys Knight - tell her you're mine,

Turks - you turn me on,

Drake and Ensolids - fight for love,

Patti Austin - too much a part of me,

Bull and Matadors - if you decide / love come down ... ...

Not new stuff necessarily Jim and not fortunes either but all good enough IMHO.

Insofar as rarer new discoveries are concerned we are still, by and large, in the hands of people like Ady, Andy D, Rob T, Dave T, Butch et al i.e.those with centuries worth of knowledge and contacts who've kept turning em up fairly consistently over recent-ish years.

I've heard some shite these last few years but I've also heard some absolutely awesome records that I'd never heard of before (which has been the case for about 30 years as far as I can recall). That's got to augur well I reckon and fair play to those who keep rooting, reviving and/or turning em up and those with the nads to play em.

atb

Phil

You know you'll get no argument from me on any of the above Phil, and I think it's quite refreshing that records with less tha a 3 figure price tag are starting to get recognition they deserve-especially as that's all I buy

See ya soon

Tony

Sacred Four

Cosmos Band

Wally Coco

John Harris & Soul Sayers

Charles Simmons

Ricky Andrews (Mars La Tour..)

Willie Tee (Bonatemp)

Don't know all of them but aren't they a bit left-field compared to the classic four beats to the bar Northern sound?

I think the actual question was, there are hardly any new Northern four beats to the bar discoveries. And with that I'd certainly agree.

Marc - that's cos you've got a good ear mate (possibly even two) and are constantly on the lookout

Edited February 10, 201114 yr by PhilT

Don't know all of them but aren't they a bit left-field compared to the classic four beats to the bar Northern sound?

I think the actual question was, there are hardly any new Northern four beats to the bar discoveries. And with that I'd certainly agree.

If that was indeed the actual question, and on second reading I believe it was, the answer indeed has to be sadly yes. Maybe Joe Jama, Parliaments (Cabell) were among the last titles that could have been classified as such a new discoveries ?

But thankfully the taste has widened and these days a bright variety of songs is accepted (by most) which of course led and continues to lead to more "new" titles being around to be picked up on. These new styles already added to the scene in general and also already have created their own sort of classics (Charles Sheffield to name just one obvious).

Of course a major aspect and reason for this ever expanding variety of styles (first R&B, Popcornish tuneage, now Funk and Gospel-esque Soul etc) was and is the fact that new discoveries in the vein of traditional Northern Soul Stompers simply were not around anymore to be found. IMO.

Edited February 10, 201114 yr by Marc Forrest

Marc - that's cos you've got a good ear mate (possibly even two) and are constantly on the lookout

cheers mate...indeed two ears..at least today morning before shaving LOL !

Slightly repeating myself here but a valid point is sometimes you have to go backwards to move forward, recently I was trying to work out what first drew me to this music and the answer was so obvious I was blinded, messing about with records one afternoon I stuck on things like Jackie Lee - The Duck, Temptation Walk,Little Hank Mr Bang Bang Man, Gene Chandler - Mr Big Shot and so on, POW! tunes what it's basically all about, powerhouse driving beats, stunning vocals, perfect tempo etc. it really matters to me what era these records are from as I've said before a quality record is a quality record or imagine Jackie Lee - The Duck had never been discovered until now it would certainly hold it's own with the likes of Margret Little and in my opinion leave it for dead no contest, so many records get left behind in the pursuit of something new and different which is all well and good if the new and different hold the key ingredients and traditions of a quality tune.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I ve played The Blues busters and it don't half sound familiar--how longs this been around ??

There are loads of GREAT new discoveries, just a sad fact that only a very few venues will put on Djs who play these.

John Harris

Sacred Four

Wally Coco

Black smoke Band

Sir guy

King Roosevelt

Delon washington

Wild Honey

Third Creation

Dynamic Corvettes

There are loads!!

Thats just a few that i was pushing for the last 3/4 years (mainly via DDA) .

NOW, they are getting plays, because they are being presented to the public (dancefloor) via the 'accepted Big name' route. Its all so very safe and 'old boy' network dominated that these tunes take 2 to 5 years to reach the main floors, after they have been championed by lesser known djs in smaller clubs.

I stopped going out to events because the music is so F---king repetitive , hackneyed and boring. That situation is not down to lack of new discoveries, but the fear (of clearing a floor for a second) and apathy of promoters. Also i feel a lot of 'big name dj' venues avoid putting on lesser known djs that play stuff they dont know because of egos. They prefer wait until they have tracked the tune down themselves, which is often 2 years after the event .

All very controversial i know, but its a fact.

Anyone wanting to buy new discoveries or lesser know stuff can PM me , as im selling up after Berlin on March 12th.

Edited February 10, 201114 yr by paul-s

That Blues Busters is nice, I want one!

Hello Jim,

Personally, I think many of the next classics are right under our noses but many have been overlooked or taken for granted because they aren't rare enough or they happen to be LP tracks etc.

I appreciate many people will always focus on rare and exclusive tracks (and that's okay) but there are so many less expensive gems that deserve more exposure and have the potential to be very popular.

Best wishes,

Paul

Here here, mate, spot on underplayed is the new rare!

Hello Jim,

Personally, I think many of the next classics are right under our noses but many have been overlooked or taken for granted because they aren't rare enough or they happen to be LP tracks etc.

I appreciate many people will always focus on rare and exclusive tracks (and that's okay) but there are so many less expensive gems that deserve more exposure and have the potential to be very popular.

Best wishes,

Paul

Shame a lot of Dj's ego's get in the way though, understandably, er should I play this actually better record thats neither exclusive or cost me a months wage....... a no brainer for most sadly. Ive also I've heard lots of records described as massive or huge, when there's 3 copies- and its yet to be pressed, hows that work without one central venue or Dj's that dont really travel too often ?

Edited February 10, 201114 yr by geeselad

always thought this was a bit weak not my cup of tea...............soul sounds unlimited now thats a proper tune

p.s talking about sir joe

Edited February 10, 201114 yr by gordon russell

Lots of recent stuff as well that's still not got the full exposure.Salt and Pepper has a release now,but what's with the "Rainy Day" - Parliaments obsession? .

Jean Carter - "I wanna know" ....the last of the real NS sounds....?

So can I ask, Who are all these big name Dj's that everyone keeps on about but nobody ever names??

Just Curious that's all...

thanks for all the replies guys. some great tracks mentioned in posts especialy jean carter for me being the stand out tune. like tony say's and he is quite correct ,just imagine going to say lifeline and hearing the opening bars of the salvadors or tomango's for the first time, it would blow you away, just like it did the first time i heard duke browner at the pendulum all those years ago. there are loads of records out there being aired for the first time or even re activated because they were not the right tempo or beat for the golden age 72...81. it was great for me when all the unissued motown came out of the can, i just want to hear more of the same.

Edited February 10, 201114 yr by JIM BARRY

So can I ask, Who are all these big name Dj's that everyone keeps on about but nobody ever names??

Just Curious that's all...

Edited February 11, 201114 yr by KevH

Mmmmm...Inner sanctum..Sounds a bit egotistical that..

Mmmmm...Inner sanctum..Sounds a bit egotistical that..

Edited February 11, 201114 yr by KevH

There are loads of GREAT new discoveries, just a sad fact that only a very few venues will put on Djs who play these.

John Harris

Sacred Four

Wally Coco

Black smoke Band

Sir guy

King Roosevelt

Delon washington

Wild Honey

Third Creation

Dynamic Corvettes

There are loads!!

Thats just a few that i was pushing for the last 3/4 years (mainly via DDA) .

NOW, they are getting plays, because they are being presented to the public (dancefloor) via the 'accepted Big name' route. Its all so very safe and 'old boy' network dominated that these tunes take 2 to 5 years to reach the main floors, after they have been championed by lesser known djs in smaller clubs.

I stopped going out to events because the music is so F---king repetitive , hackneyed and boring. That situation is not down to lack of new discoveries, but the fear (of clearing a floor for a second) and apathy of promoters. Also i feel a lot of 'big name dj' venues avoid putting on lesser known djs that play stuff they dont know because of egos. They prefer wait until they have tracked the tune down themselves, which is often 2 years after the event .

All very controversial i know, but its a fact.

Anyone wanting to buy new discoveries or lesser know stuff can PM me , as im selling up after Berlin on March 12th.

There are loads of GREAT new & recent releases too.

Problem is most folks won't listen to them until they are 30+ years old & on 7" vinyl.

Oh well, their loss I guess.....

Now is it a inner sanctum or inner circle? and if it's a circle who's at the head of it?

Hello Jim,

Personally, I think many of the next classics are right under our noses but many have been overlooked or taken for granted because they aren't rare enough or they happen to be LP tracks etc.

I appreciate many people will always focus on rare and exclusive tracks (and that's okay) but there are so many less expensive gems that deserve more exposure and have the potential to be very popular.

Best wishes,

Paul

very well said

Little Bob is a version of the Impressions track from the People Get Ready album.

Edited February 10, 201114 yr by noss

There are loads of GREAT new discoveries,

Wild Honey

Do you mean "I've Been Working"?

That Blues Busters is nice, I want one!

It's fantastic and always packs the floor. Very "traditional" sounding to my ears as well. Seems to be rare though. Tony Rounce mentioned in another thread that only a year or two ago it was unknown to exist.

You have to be in the inner sanctum to know the actual names.Classfied data.

Don't you mean inner scrotum !!!! ?

Here's one, something new that is, not a scrotum

Here's one, something new that is, not a scrotum

Is it me or sounds kinda Jamaican?

Is it me or sounds kinda Jamaican?

Un-released Philly thing, recorded on the same session as the Nu-Rons - All of my life. Have the rights to put it out, which we will late this year.

Un-released Philly thing, recorded on the same session as the Nu-Rons - All of my life. Have the rights to put it out, which we will late this year.

Nice, thanks.

Don't you mean inner scrotum !!!! ?

Edited February 11, 201114 yr by KevH