The Northern Soul Top 500-Definitive Edition. Nov 30Th

[Tezza]

Agree Terry

4 Seasons every time ! -Timebox is a straight copy- but crossed into the Scene via Mod / Scooter exposure and the scene likes a nice UK issued rarity !

But Kev is reflecting on Dance floor reaction on todays scene and its a PACKER where ever you go !

Rob

I know - but still !! Lol !!

Have to recommend to all at Brid next year - 4 Seasons or nothing !!!

[Russ Vickers]

There you go again with that aggression...........calm, calm, calmer........there, that's it

I dont think you could get Mr Cato going, far to cool for that..... .

Best Russ

[Pete S]

Pete ,are you sure it was the Supremes? i had Dave on tape playing baby love but it was Rueben ..?(love)and he did play it regular -would have been ´74 but that was Dave alway strange.

On the same time scale.´74 when they(Martyn Ellis;Brian Rae Etc) started re-activating oldies ie Julien Covay.Green door etc do you think it drove some of the older established people off the scene because they were for them "boring oldies"or hadn´t the term been used before then??

Steve

Yeah it was definitely The Supremes Steve, hence my surprise. I wasn't going in 74 but in 76, 77, there were several oldies that had been reactivated and were being played in the main room, things like Waterfall, Wanting You, Shane Martin, Garnet Mimms, Green Door, Walter Jackson - Flowers.

[KevH]

Well i'm still after a free book,so here goes again.

1- Earl Wotsit - Back Slap

2- Dj Genocide - can't remember title,something to do with Betty Wright.

3 - Frank Wilson. - DILY.

[SHEFFSOUL]

or one step beyond

Steve

..many a true word..

[Wiggyflat]

I can't see how Beggin was overlooked in the Golden era....perfect tempo and a great record.The funny thing the northern scene was usually one step ahead then things went mainstream....now they are taking from the mainstream after it has been remixed and sampled.That Bob Sinclair is a bad record though....You Succeeded another great record...have it on a silver label from memory and would probably fill floors given the chance but some deejays seem to busy playing Tommy Hunt okey cokey...ska....Del Davis and Al Capone plus Latin rather than exposing some quality uptempo northern.

[Pete S]

I can't see how Beggin was overlooked in the Golden era....perfect tempo and a great record.

It was an airplay and minor chart hit so it would have been too familiar in the early and mid 70's.

That Del Davis record is truly terrible and is also reggae.

[Chalky]

I agree with Steve, the Mello Souls is a dead duck for most dancers and that is exactly why it's only popular among collectors plus the fact the original is almost impossible to get.

It is messy, although I like it personally. But the dance floor doesn't lie.

Same happened in most eras of the scene, The Inticers for instance on Baby Luv-fantastic but dancers disagree.

Jimmy Bo is in the book.

Well we've had this argument before me and you Kev and I still gotta disagree with you. Not everyone's cuppa I know but it is far from a dead duck. Packed the floors since Butch first played it, later Kitch, Mick H and dare say Andy Killick if he gets the chance to play it out. You were right though it is impossible to get and impossible for your crowd to hear unless you book Mick or Butch really, many might still not know the record or how to dance to it if they haven't heard it before. yes it is messy as well, but that is the attraction with many NS classics, the fact they aren't polished "hits", they are raw and full of soul and passion. Does it for me every time the Mello Souls

You also have to remember that the rare and obscure scene, well without it many records that have crossed over to the oldies/retro scene it wouldn't have been possible if it wasn't for those collectors. Many records that your DJ's play were first heard and made popular on the so called collectors scene.

What about the likes of Jean Carter - I Wanna Know? Has that made the book? If that isn't a stomper of the traditional kind I don't know what is. What about JT Parker that is popular with Ginger? A Lifeline spin for Andy Dyson. Jesse James - Love Is Alright, Stormye Winters, Hank Hodge, the list is endless of records that would and have crossed over to the oldies scene.

Maybe I should attempt a soul source top 500 see how it compares?

There is a scene outside of Goldsoul you know

[Guest Byrney]

I was initially interested in what this latest version would offer and thought I'd see what info we get from this thread, might have had a punt myself. However I can't see how the 500 have been chosen other than from the nostalgia / Jean Geanie scene which has little interest for me. Also I can't see what it offers e.g any stories behind the record, where discovered, dance floor reaction etc as the author fails to inform us.

Also it just seems ill informed, Mello Souls for example, anyone who's done a bit of time on this scene knows its a floor packer, perhaps not at Nostalgia / Jean Geanie events (loving that very ap term).

To be honest I might have bought this, however given what I'm reading here it seems to have little credibility. Just my view, others knock your self out

Sure it'll sell though

[SallieJane]

So basically reading through the thread....it looks like a top 500 record is as voted by dancers at Stoke.....I don't go and no one asked me lol

[Guest giant]

....... pass the roast beef, then!.

:lol:

[Guest giant]

1: Just Loving you - Ruby Andrews

2: Just Loving You - Ruby Andrews

3: Just Loving You - Ruby Andrews

The Ruby Andrews track is a new entry at number 3 with Ruby Andrews moving up from number 3 to number 2. The Ruby Andrews track 'Just Loving you' is a new entry at number 1 (replacing Ruby Andrews).

:lol:

[Guest giant]

money money money

cashing in

correct correct correct :thumbup:

[Pete S]

What on earth is a "Jean Genie" record apart from being a David Bowie classic?

[Bazza]

What on earth is a "Jean Genie" record apart from being a David Bowie classic?

Good question that Pete,Ive no idea

Bazza

[Goldsoul]

So basically reading through the thread....it looks like a top 500 record is as voted by dancers at Stoke.....I don't go and no one asked me lol

Maybe you should go....come see what happiness is on a large scale

You can pick up the book while yyou there....all sorted for Dec 1st.

[Benji]

Will it have again fabricated quotes from collectors and dancers?

[KevH]

Will it have again fabricated quotes from collectors and dancers?

"Why would it? I highly recommend this book."

All the best...Ian Levine.

Edited November 21, 2012 by KevH

[Goldsoul]

Well we've had this argument before me and you Kev and I still gotta disagree with you. Not everyone's cuppa I know but it is far from a dead duck. Packed the floors since Butch first played it, later Kitch, Mick H and dare say Andy Killick if he gets the chance to play it out. You were right though it is impossible to get and impossible for your crowd to hear unless you book Mick or Butch really, many might still not know the record or how to dance to it if they haven't heard it before. yes it is messy as well, but that is the attraction with many NS classics, the fact they aren't polished "hits", they are raw and full of soul and passion. Does it for me every time the Mello Souls

You also have to remember that the rare and obscure scene, well without it many records that have crossed over to the oldies/retro scene it wouldn't have been possible if it wasn't for those collectors. Many records that your DJ's play were first heard and made popular on the so called collectors scene.

What about the likes of Jean Carter - I Wanna Know? Has that made the book? If that isn't a stomper of the traditional kind I don't know what is. What about JT Parker that is popular with Ginger? A Lifeline spin for Andy Dyson. Jesse James - Love Is Alright, Stormye Winters, Hank Hodge, the list is endless of records that would and have crossed over to the oldies scene.

Maybe I should attempt a soul source top 500 see how it compares?

There is a scene outside of Goldsoul you know

Chalky,

Please tell me any event with large numbers that dance to Stormye Winters and the others you mentioned? Even after 20 years the Mello Souls is not that well known to the mass NS audience.

The book is about judging what is popular now and during the course of the last 45 years. Your personal choices would probably never make a populist chart, but then again many of mine wouldn't either.

A scene outside of Goldsoul...of course there is and I'm wired right into them, but it does not alter what the book stands for....POPULARITY.

Hank Hodge cannot be compared to Paul Anka-When We Get There. Facts fella. As much as I dislike the latter.

The simple fact is, the underground still serves a great purpose and acts as a breeding ground for a bigger picture later down the line on some titles. That's great for all concerned.

Thanks for all the comments so far.

Edited November 21, 2012 by The Golden 101

[Goldsoul]

Will it have again fabricated quotes from collectors and dancers?

Gone Benj......forever

[Ady Croasdell]

Relevant background info and useful trivia on all entries. Hopefully after 40 years on the scene, I have enough info for you!

As this ones lingering, here's my two pen'orth.

The first one was fun to read in places, we're all list lovers and enjoy arguing about what is in and not in. But as Kev has a good knowledge of some of the acts and producers, why couldn't the write-up of the singles be more informative for fans who would love to know more about the history of the disc's making. Instead we got inane quotes from unknown punters which added zero to the records origins or place on the Northern scene. An opportunity missed.

40 years on the scene! Not including leave of absence squire.

Which Bob Sinclair? There seem to be a lot of his on You Tube; i need to stay in more.

[Goldsoul]

correct correct correct :thumbup:

Abba sadly didn't make it, Voices of East Harlem in... yes siree.

I think we just got an order from you.....Thanks.

[Goldsoul]

As this ones lingering, here's my two pen'orth.

The first one was fun to read in places, we're all list lovers and enjoy arguing about what is in and not in. But as Kev has a good knowledge of some of the acts and producers, why couldn't the write-up of the singles be more informative for fans who would love to know more about the history of the disc's making. Instead we got inane quotes from unknown punters which added zero to the records origins or place on the Northern scene. An opportunity missed.

40 years on the scene! Not including leave of absence squire.

Which Bob Sinclair? There seem to be a lot of his on You Tube; i need to stay in more.

The 'inane quotes' have gone. Felt right back in '99 when I first had the idea.

Probably agree about the 'disc's making' but then again I am very concious of the larger audience I am trying to reach. Bite size chunks n all that.

No leave of absence, just a lower profile in the 80's if that's what you are refering to? Just check in with Butch who was buying stacks of vinyl from me in 82/83, while I was busy discovering the likes of JD Bryant.

Bob Sinclair-Tribute.........totally awful IMHO, but not according to NS masses.

Your camp has produced a few winners for the book. Carla Thomas, Maxine Brown-It's Torture among others. Well done

[Ady Croasdell]

The 'inane quotes' have gone. Felt right back in '99 when I first had the idea.

Probably agree about the 'disc's making' but then again I am very concious of the larger audience I am trying to reach. Bite size chunks n all that.

No leave of absence, just a lower profile in the 80's if that's what you are refering to? Just check in with Butch who was buying stacks of vinyl from me in 82/83, while I was busy discovering the likes of JD Bryant.

Bob Sinclair-Tribute.........totally awful IMHO, but not according to NS masses.

Your camp has produced a few winners for the book. Carla Thomas, Maxine Brown-It's Torture among others. Well done

Excellent and you'll be relieved that I won't be taking your erstwhile Goldmine colleague's litiginous approach to label reproduction, scan away.

[Ady Croasdell]

Bob Sinclair is a good fun time record and deserves to be big for a month but I'm guessing will pale with plays. It has a great rhythm, though it doesn't appear to have any soul content but won't be the first played on the scene in that respect. I'd love to hear Calvin Harris 'Weekend' played out and would guarantee to dance to it but I wouldn't expect it at a Northern night (I'd also guarantee to dance to the Arctic Monkeys' song about Rotherham if you wanna try me out) . It's just silli if Bob Sinclair is in any list of Northern sounds.

Ricardo Ray 'Nitty Gritty' is brilliant and was a play in 1969/70. 'Soul Drummers' wasn't a 100 Club sound though I was playing about 5 different Latin soul sounds at the time.

[jocko]

My question, ignored as ever was serious. I was bemused by your MS comment, as it filled all the dancefloors I have even seen during my years, and it made me think just how much have you seen outside your own sphere? An important question for me as in all honesty it questions the relevance of the book, I do have the first one and it was okay, if a little trite and amatuerish. You now seem ever more obsessed than ever, with only quantity moments not quality. A packed dancefloor of 200 fairly sussed NS fans obviously does not count in your eyes, so for that reason I am out in this book.

It made me think, having witnessed a buffalo stampede to the dancefloor, at the Lifeline Weekender on playing of the Mellos Souls, long after it was played out, people normally known as the record bar lampshades shed their shackles and clumped onto the dancefloor, dealers dumped their berths by their boxes, unguarded and uncaring as the mass was on the dance floor. The floor didn't need springs as Messrs Anderson, Byrne. Kitchener and Santucci pogoed perfectly on beat. Battered by emotion for 2 minutes, never did the saying this is Northern Soul come to life so much. And by a non soul record too. And from the 80's when all the deadwood had been shed by a lively thriving scene, as long as you aren't only interested in width and girth of the scene.

The fact you have long forgotten what that felt like really means you should not be trusted with any sort of scene history, however I appreciate you have a pension to fund.

The fact that people like you don't recognise life changing moments such as this any more reflects your jaded view of Northern Soul, understandably as it is a job for you. The fact you are so disrepectful to people who do is not understandable. I suspect you have lost more sales than you gained on here by your approach.

Edited November 21, 2012 by jocko

[viphitman]

Hmmm, I guess as always with northern soul books, videos, articles and so on, an insular view prevails. All over Europe you have since the early 80's Northern Soul events which went through their own little changes in music policy, sounds being played, attendances and mix of punters. There are a few thousand fans on the continent overall with some attending events on a regular basis and others only occasionally. The music policy in Europe is very often a mix of oldies and upfront/underplayed sounds at various events. Three tracks for instance which guarantee a full dancefloor are Charlene & The Soul Serenaders Can you win, Salt & Pepper Man of My World

and Brother Love Precious Dove. Lots of northern soul oldies are being played as well..... and one of the all time classics top 5 would probably be Melba Moore Magic Touch !!!

If you would include Europe and the rare undeplayed scene in the UK in your book, I guess your chart would look a little different. So, maybe just say Gold Soul Top 500 UK Only Charts of Northern Soul Sounds !!!

Edited November 21, 2012 by viphitman

[Pete S]

My question, ignored as ever was serious. I was bemused by your MS comment, as it filled all the dancefloors I have even seen during my years, and it made me think just how much have you seen outside your own sphere? An important question for me as in all honesty it questions the relevance of the book, I do have the first one and it was okay, if a little trite and amatuerish. You now seem ever more obsessed than ever, with only quantity moments not quality. A packed dancefloor of 200 fairly sussed NS fans obviously does not count in your eyes, so for that reason I am out in this book.

It made me think, having witnessed a buffalo stampede to the dancefloor, at the Lifeline Weekender on playing of the Mellos Souls, long after it was played out, people normally known as the record bar lampshades shed their shackles and clumped onto the dancefloor, dealers dumped their berths by their boxes, unguarded and uncaring as the mass was on the dance floor. The floor didn't need springs as Messrs Anderson, Byrne. Kitchener and Santucci pogoed perfectly on beat. Battered by emotion for 2 minutes, never did the saying this is Northern Soul come to life so much. And by a non soul record too. And from the 80's when all the deadwood had been shed by a lively thriving scene, as long as you aren't only interested in width and girth of the scene.

The fact you have long forgotten what that felt like really means you should not be trusted with any sort of scene history, however I appreciate you have a pension to fund.

The fact that people like you don't recognise life changing moments such as this any more reflects your jaded view of Northern Soul, understandably as it is a job for you. The fact you are so disrepectful to people who do is not understandable. I suspect you have lost more sales than you gained on here by your approach.

Yes but Jock the more people write epistles like yours above, the longer the debate will continue, nearly 6000 views and 5 pages worth of publicity already - Kev must be laughing his arse off at you/me/us.

I'm not a big fan of Mello Souls but for it not to be in the top 10 is plain crazy. In my opinion.

[Chalky]

Chalky,

Please tell me any event with large numbers that dance to Stormye Winters and the others you mentioned? Even after 20 years the Mello Souls is not that well known to the mass NS audience.

The book is about judging what is popular now and during the course of the last 45 years. Your personal choices would probably never make a populist chart, but then again many of mine wouldn't either.

A scene outside of Goldsoul...of course there is and I'm wired right into them, but it does not alter what the book stands for....POPULARITY.

Hank Hodge cannot be compared to Paul Anka-When We Get There. Facts fella. As much as I dislike the latter.

The simple fact is, the underground still serves a great purpose and acts as a breeding ground for a bigger picture later down the line on some titles. That's great for all concerned.

Thanks for all the comments so far.

I thought I'd seen SW on a playlist of one of your regulars? Maybe not then.

The underground and the continuation of the scene is the bigger picture not a bunch of retro soulies the wrong side of 50/60 who won't be around for many more years. No matter what you say the isn't enough youngsters with the attitude we have/had to continue the scene. There isnt enough youngsters to fill a nighter on the so called collectors scene. Most disappear when job/family take over.

As for popularity, who says so? I and many I know knew nothing of any poll to define the the top 500. I doubt many of those outside the Goldsoul scene got a say in this?

Anyway as Pete says you've had plenty of publicity out of this topic so I'll shut up

[Dave Pinch]

What on earth is a "Jean Genie" record apart from being a David Bowie classic?

jean genie brigade pete is the folks our age who were never into northern or soul and now at the age of 50 odd.. nightclubbing with the youth isnt appealing, nor is playin bingo at the local workin mens club..fed up with the pictures and goin out for meals so what do they do.....................find a local soul and motown night

[Pete S]

jean genie brigade pete is the folks our age who were never into northern or soul and now at the age of 50 odd.. nightclubbing with the youth isnt appealing, nor is playin bingo at the local workin mens club..fed up with the pictures and goin out for meals so what do they do.....................find a local soul and motown night

Ah but what if you love Jean Genie but have also always been into Northern Soul at the same time?

[Bazza]

Ah but what if you love Jean Genie but have also always been into Northern Soul at the same time?

Strangely, Jean Genie ,did get played at Nottm Palais in days of old

Bazza

[Pete S]

Strangely, Jean Genie ,did get played at Nottm Palais in days of old

Bazza

What? Why?

[Tezza]

Ah but what if you love Jean Genie but have also always been into Northern Soul at the same time?

Speaking to folk on the circuit and I think there are a lot of us about Pete !!

Edited November 21, 2012 by Tezza

[Bazza]

What? Why?

Don't ask me I dunno,suppose there was no hard and fast rules and regulations on what could be played in 72 ish

Bazza

[Pete S]

Don't ask me I dunno,suppose there was no hard and fast rules and regulations on what could be played in 72 ish

Bazza

Sorry, misunderstood you.

That would be like a general 'disco' night you're talking about then.

[Bazza]

Sorry, misunderstood you.

That would be like a general 'disco' night you're talking about then.

Pete ,back then if you could dance to it it was played simple as that along side Ska Reggae and R&B,the northern scene was still finding its feet

Bazza

[Kev John]

jean genie brigade pete is the folks our age who were never into northern or soul and now at the age of 50 odd.. nightclubbing with the youth isnt appealing, nor is playin bingo at the local workin mens club..fed up with the pictures and goin out for meals so what do they do.....................find a local soul and motown night

Dave

A lot of working men's clubs have shut down Bingo is on tinternet now

The one's that are left are turning to northern soul to drum up punters to stay open

[Ian Dewhirst]

I can't see how Beggin was overlooked in the Golden era....perfect tempo and a great record.The funny thing the northern scene was usually one step ahead then things went mainstream....now they are taking from the mainstream after it has been remixed and sampled.That Bob Sinclair is a bad record though....You Succeeded another great record...have it on a silver label from memory and would probably fill floors given the chance but some deejays seem to busy playing Tommy Hunt okey cokey...ska....Del Davis and Al Capone plus Latin rather than exposing some quality uptempo northern.

Yep, weird. "Beggin'" was a Top 40 UK hit in 1968 - I used to hear it regularly on Radio One and this would have automatically barred it from any Northern playlists at the time. Same with their cover of "Girl Don't Make Me Wait" which I heard long before Bunny Sigler. Too poppy for the tastes back then Kev as there was an embarassment of undiscovered proper Soul records coming from the U.S., so Brit cover versions didn't make much sense at the time.........

Ian D

Edited November 21, 2012 by Ian Dewhirst

[Dave Pinch]

Ah but what if you love Jean Genie but have also always been into Northern Soul at the same time?

well JG fits my bill as well bud but we are two of a kind and most out there are different....mind you i dont think bowie made a good record in 30 years

[Pete S]

well JG fits my bill as well bud but we are two of a kind and most out there are different....mind you i dont think bowie made a good record in 30 years

I agree with you!

[KevH]

I agree with you!

Pete,are you agreeing with"don't think bowie made a good record in 30 years"? Surely not.When i was at my last Stoke niter,i was asked "what the f you doing"? I said "John i'm only dancing!".

Edited November 21, 2012 by KevH

[Chalky]

Yep, weird. "Beggin'" was a Top 40 UK hit in 1968 - I used to hear it regularly on Radio One and this would have automatically barred it from any Northern playlists at the time. Same with their cover of "Girl Don't Make Me Wait" which I heard long before Bunny Sigler. Too poppy for the tastes back then Kev as there was an embarassment of undiscovered proper Soul records coming from the U.S., so Brit cover versions didn't make much sense at the time.........

Ian D

I can't understand why Beggin' and the reggae tracks mentioned are even considered when you think about he embarrassment of (Northern) Soul riches available to Dj's today, in particular at the type of event Kev promotes.

[Tabs]

Think this might be in the top three.

[Goldsoul]

I can't understand why Beggin' and the reggae tracks mentioned are even considered when you think about he embarrassment of (Northern) Soul riches available to Dj's today, in particular at the type of event Kev promotes.

Chalky- Pretty much an insult to Andy Dyson, Mick H, Ginger and others who work for Goldsoul .

What you think Beggin is only played at somewhere I promote? It's massive on the mass Northern scene at many venues.

[Chalky]

Not insulting anyone Kev, what I mean by the type of venue you promote is an oldies night, supposedly playing the best of the last 40 odd years, think you know what I mean as well. I doubt Andy or Mick would resort to a record like Beggin or he reggae records mentioned either. if Beggin is in the book I dare say it isn't as good as what it has replaced.

[Mattbolton]

Surely this book is based on a rather wonky premise?

The first one I bought simply because I was curious. But are subsequent editions really worthwhile in a world with such a wealth of knowledge as this very site?

If it's based on dancers reactions, it can only by 'definition' (your term not mine) be out of date by the time it's printed? Attempting to compile a top 500 on a current and ever changing 'scene' is frivolous and fruitless. Especially if those records are really only garnered from GoldSoul events.

[Little-stevie]

Surely this book is based on a rather wonky premise?

The first one I bought simply because I was curious. But are subsequent editions really worthwhile in a world with such a wealth of knowledge as this very site?

If it's based on dancers reactions, it can only by 'definition' (your term not mine) be out of date by the time it's printed? Attempting to compile a top 500 on a current and ever changing 'scene' is frivolous and fruitless. Especially if those records are really only garnered from GoldSoul events.

On this basis he could still bring out a new book every few years and show us the how Beggin and a few more tracks have changed places :sleep3:

Have a bit of class just for once Mr Goldsoul, it aint all about you and your bank account...

You do what you do very well but just need to have a little grace....

This topic, just like the concept of the book is well past its sell by date..

[Goldsoul]

Surely this book is based on a rather wonky premise?

The first one I bought simply because I was curious. But are subsequent editions really worthwhile in a world with such a wealth of knowledge as this very site?

If it's based on dancers reactions, it can only by 'definition' (your term not mine) be out of date by the time it's printed? Attempting to compile a top 500 on a current and ever changing 'scene' is frivolous and fruitless. Especially if those records are really only garnered from GoldSoul events.

Surely this book is based on a rather wonky premise?

The first one I bought simply because I was curious. But are subsequent editions really worthwhile in a world with such a wealth of knowledge as this very site?

If it's based on dancers reactions, it can only by 'definition' (your term not mine) be out of date by the time it's printed? Attempting to compile a top 500 on a current and ever changing 'scene' is frivolous and fruitless. Especially if those records are really only garnered from GoldSoul events.

Thanks for visiting Blackpool Tower, hope to see you at a Goldsoul event soon..

Edited November 22, 2012 by The Golden 101

[Goldsoul]

On this basis he could still bring out a new book every few years and show us the how Beggin and a few more tracks have changed places :sleep3:

Have a bit of class just for once Mr Goldsoul, it aint all about you and your bank account...

You do what you do very well but just need to have a little grace....

This topic, just like the concept of the book is well past its sell by date..

Why not a write a book yourself. Stop talking about mine.